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Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 11:13
by Scott4Pack
For CK, um, I mean Jalen Hurts to rush for over 100 yards in the first quarter alone, tells you that our defense is bad because of itself and that the offense has not a darned thing to do with that. Let that fact be settled. And frankly, if anybody still thinks that our Offense has anything to do with our bad D, maybe they have taken a pill of some sort that creates vivid hallucinations.
I’ve lamented about this for years now. Scheme, scheme, scheme. That is what we need. We need a D that takes risks to create chaos and pressure. Yes, it lives with giving up occasional big plays. But overall, nothing about it should be predictable. Nothing should follow traditional script.
A few DCs embrace that idea. And they are succeeding with a lot of average to above average talent.
The current scheme (coaching) is not working and is failing miserably. Time to go back to the chalkboard and re-design.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 15:24
by Pckfn23
[mention]YoHoChecko[/mention] Thoughts on Lincoln Riley possibly being the new DC?
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 15:29
by go pak go
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 15:24
@YoHoChecko Thoughts on Lincoln Riley possibly being the new DC?
That would be crazy. Right now USC newspapers are talking about needing to pay attention to the Packers as USC may compete with the Packers to get the services of Jim Leonard. That would be a wrench in things if the Packers actually end up taking Lincoln Riley instead.
I thought Riley was an offensive dude though?
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 15:31
by Pckfn23
go pak go wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 15:29
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 15:24
@YoHoChecko Thoughts on Lincoln Riley possibly being the new DC?
That would be crazy. Right now USC newspapers are talking about needing to pay attention to the Packers as USC may compete with the Packers to get the services of Jim Leonard. That would be a wrench in things if the Packers actually end up taking Lincoln Riley instead.
I thought Riley was an offensive dude though?
You are right, he is. Move along, nothing to seen here.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 16:46
by APB
This was Jim Leonard in 2021,
speaking with Jason Wilde and Tom Oates on why he chose the Wisconsin Badger DC position over the Packers DC position:
“It was me choosing UW,” Leonhard told Oates and Wilde. “I want to stay at UW. I want to be at this level right now. Extremely flattered. Awesome opportunity. But it was not the right time for me to go back to the NFL.”
Leonhard, 38, was a walk-on defensive back at Wisconsin in 2001. He went on to be a three-time All-American and three-time All-Big Ten selection before carving out a 10-year NFL career. In 2016, he joined the Wisconsin coaching staff as a defensive backs coach and was promoted one year later to defensive coordinator.
His ties to Madison are strong, but Leonhard said he was “about out the door,” signaling how close he was to taking the Packers’ job, and he even talked contract numbers with LaFleur this week. The two met twice, once virtually and once in person, per Oates and Wilde.
Leonhard described himself as a “longshot” to leave Madison going into the process, but he was intrigued by the opportunity to coordinate an NFL defense for a Super Bowl contender and went through the full interview process with LaFleur.
In the end, staying with Wisconsin – and continuing to build and guide the Badgers football program while keeping his young family in Madison – kept Leonhard from taking the step to the NFL.
“I know the NFL. I know the good, I know the bad, being in there for 10 years. I understand what the NFL is. It’s exciting. Right now, I just feel like UW is the right place. I’m not saying it will always be. But right now, this is where I want to be, at this level, with this group of kids,” Leonhard said.
I wonder, with circumstances having obviously changed, whether there is still mutual interest? I don't expect LeFluer to make any changes mid-season, especially considering Mo Drayton lasted the entire year last year, but when you consider he's a guy readily available and there was mutual interest just a year ago whether LeFluer might actually jump for his guy.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 17:15
by Drj820
The problem with the team is Lafleur. Teams take on the identity of their coaches. Belichik and pats, Vrabel and the titans, Mcvay and the rams, chiefs and Andy Reid. For the positive.
Goes the other way too for the negative.
The STs and defense both struggle because Lafleur is the “head coach”, but I think all he knows ANYTHING about is offense. He has no answers when the STs coordinator needs help or isn’t perfect. The d is soft because he is relaxed and soft in mentality. It doesn’t matter who the coordinators are. The problem starts at the top. The team takes on the identify of the HEAD COACH, and we are seeing that with this team.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 17:56
by APB
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:15
The problem with the team is Lafleur. Teams take on the identity of their coaches. Belichik and pats, Vrabel and the titans, Mcvay and the rams, chiefs and Andy Reid. For the positive.
Goes the other way too for the negative.
The STs and defense both struggle because Lafleur is the “head coach”, but I think all he knows ANYTHING about is offense. He has no answers when the STs coordinator needs help or isn’t perfect. The d is soft because he is relaxed and soft in mentality. It doesn’t matter who the coordinators are. The problem starts at the top. The team takes on the identify of the HEAD COACH, and we are seeing that with this team.
How much input did McVay have on ST and defense during his SB run last year? Andy Reid in ‘19 and ‘20?
I mean, you throw out these names and then fault Lafleur for being exactly who
they are.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 17:57
by BF004
APB wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:56
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:15
The problem with the team is Lafleur. Teams take on the identity of their coaches. Belichik and pats, Vrabel and the titans, Mcvay and the rams, chiefs and Andy Reid. For the positive.
Goes the other way too for the negative.
The STs and defense both struggle because Lafleur is the “head coach”, but I think all he knows ANYTHING about is offense. He has no answers when the STs coordinator needs help or isn’t perfect. The d is soft because he is relaxed and soft in mentality. It doesn’t matter who the coordinators are. The problem starts at the top. The team takes on the identify of the HEAD COACH, and we are seeing that with this team.
How much input did McVay have on ST and defense during his SB run last year? Andy Reid in ‘19 and ‘20?
I mean, you throw out these names and then fault Lafleur for being exactly who
they are.
And I mean the Titans have been us. Win a bunch in the regular season then flop in the playoffs.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 17:58
by Scott4Pack
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:15
The problem with the team is Lafleur. Teams take on the identity of their coaches. Belichik and pats, Vrabel and the titans, Mcvay and the rams, chiefs and Andy Reid. For the positive.
Goes the other way too for the negative.
The STs and defense both struggle because Lafleur is the “head coach”, but I think all he knows ANYTHING about is offense. He has no answers when the STs coordinator needs help or isn’t perfect. The d is soft because he is relaxed and soft in mentality. It doesn’t matter who the coordinators are. The problem starts at the top. The team takes on the identify of the HEAD COACH, and we are seeing that with this team.
The entire point for MLF or any HC is who he DELEGATES to. He hires the DC and the DC is almost certain to have a different style and/or personality.
Just think. We can get so excited that Bissacia (the ST coach) is getting his squad up to play, at least better than last year. And we celebrate him being different than MLF. But then we suggest that the “entire team” only takes on the attitude of the HC.
Nope. I’m not buying that dude. Sorry.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 18:11
by Drj820
BF004 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:57
APB wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:56
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:15
The problem with the team is Lafleur. Teams take on the identity of their coaches. Belichik and pats, Vrabel and the titans, Mcvay and the rams, chiefs and Andy Reid. For the positive.
Goes the other way too for the negative.
The STs and defense both struggle because Lafleur is the “head coach”, but I think all he knows ANYTHING about is offense. He has no answers when the STs coordinator needs help or isn’t perfect. The d is soft because he is relaxed and soft in mentality. It doesn’t matter who the coordinators are. The problem starts at the top. The team takes on the identify of the HEAD COACH, and we are seeing that with this team.
How much input did McVay have on ST and defense during his SB run last year? Andy Reid in ‘19 and ‘20?
I mean, you throw out these names and then fault Lafleur for being exactly who
they are.
And I mean the Titans have been us. Win a bunch in the regular season then flop in the playoffs.
The titans have been us? That’s laughable. The titans have a mediocre QB and overachieve their talent every year. They aren’t afraid to pound the rock all season long and they have a good run defense. They are tough. Like Vrable played.
They are not similar to the Packers at all.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 18:14
by Drj820
APB wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:56
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:15
The problem with the team is Lafleur. Teams take on the identity of their coaches. Belichik and pats, Vrabel and the titans, Mcvay and the rams, chiefs and Andy Reid. For the positive.
Goes the other way too for the negative.
The STs and defense both struggle because Lafleur is the “head coach”, but I think all he knows ANYTHING about is offense. He has no answers when the STs coordinator needs help or isn’t perfect. The d is soft because he is relaxed and soft in mentality. It doesn’t matter who the coordinators are. The problem starts at the top. The team takes on the identify of the HEAD COACH, and we are seeing that with this team.
How much input did McVay have on ST and defense during his SB run last year? Andy Reid in ‘19 and ‘20?
I mean, you throw out these names and then fault Lafleur for being exactly who
they are.
No way in heck McVay would have let the STs ruin his Super Bowl chances last year. He would have addressed the issue before it came to that. Like any good coach would. Lafleur sat and watched the slow motion car crash just like the rest of us.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 18:22
by APB
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 18:14
APB wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:56
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:15
The problem with the team is Lafleur. Teams take on the identity of their coaches. Belichik and pats, Vrabel and the titans, Mcvay and the rams, chiefs and Andy Reid. For the positive.
Goes the other way too for the negative.
The STs and defense both struggle because Lafleur is the “head coach”, but I think all he knows ANYTHING about is offense. He has no answers when the STs coordinator needs help or isn’t perfect. The d is soft because he is relaxed and soft in mentality. It doesn’t matter who the coordinators are. The problem starts at the top. The team takes on the identify of the HEAD COACH, and we are seeing that with this team.
How much input did McVay have on ST and defense during his SB run last year? Andy Reid in ‘19 and ‘20?
I mean, you throw out these names and then fault Lafleur for being exactly who
they are.
No way in heck McVay would have let the STs ruin his Super Bowl chances last year. He would have addressed the issue before it came to that. Like any good coach would. Lafleur sat and watched the slow motion car crash just like the rest of us.
Now you’re just arguing on conjecture. You (or I) have no way of knowing what McVay or any other coach would do in any particular situation. It’s wasted energy arguing it.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 18:30
by APB
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 18:11
BF004 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:57
APB wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:56
How much input did McVay have on ST and defense during his SB run last year? Andy Reid in ‘19 and ‘20?
I mean, you throw out these names and then fault Lafleur for being exactly who
they are.
And I mean the Titans have been us. Win a bunch in the regular season then flop in the playoffs.
The titans have been us? That’s laughable. The titans have a mediocre QB and overachieve their talent every year. They aren’t afraid to pound the rock all season long and they have a good run defense. They are tough. Like Vrable played.
They are not similar to the Packers at all.
The Titans sought out that mediocre QB in FA. They also signed him to an extension. The coach and org stand behind him even though they know full well his “over achieving” play eventually fails them once they get to the higher level competition in the playoffs.
How is that so very different than Lafleur staying with Drayton last year? They both end in the same very predictable fashion. Sounds like pretty similar paths to me….
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 18:52
by Drj820
APB wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 18:30
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 18:11
BF004 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 17:57
And I mean the Titans have been us. Win a bunch in the regular season then flop in the playoffs.
The titans have been us? That’s laughable. The titans have a mediocre QB and overachieve their talent every year. They aren’t afraid to pound the rock all season long and they have a good run defense. They are tough. Like Vrable played.
They are not similar to the Packers at all.
The Titans sought out that mediocre QB in FA. They also signed him to an extension. The coach and org stand behind him even though they know full well his “over achieving” play eventually fails them once they get to the higher level competition in the playoffs.
How is that so very different than Lafleur staying with Drayton last year? They both end in the same very predictable fashion. Sounds like pretty similar paths to me….
Comparing tannehill to drayton is blasphemous. Tannehill is a “mediocre” qb with a good attitude that knows his role.
Drayton was a god awful coordinator that was actively sabotaging the team week after week.
Tannehill is rarely a saboteur of a team. He just isn’t going to elevate a team to new heights. The team needs good defense and a good run game to win. If they have these things, tannehill can manage most games to a win.
Drayton can’t manage anything to a win. Drayton is the Mason Rudolph of Coordinators.
Your analogy would only work if they started Rudolph and signed him to an extension.
Tannehills playoff career isn’t like Draytons…if anything it’s like Rodgers over the last decade…
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 20:08
by APB
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 18:52
APB wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 18:30
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 18:11
The titans have been us? That’s laughable. The titans have a mediocre QB and overachieve their talent every year. They aren’t afraid to pound the rock all season long and they have a good run defense. They are tough. Like Vrable played.
They are not similar to the Packers at all.
The Titans sought out that mediocre QB in FA. They also signed him to an extension. The coach and org stand behind him even though they know full well his “over achieving” play eventually fails them once they get to the higher level competition in the playoffs.
How is that so very different than Lafleur staying with Drayton last year? They both end in the same very predictable fashion. Sounds like pretty similar paths to me….
Comparing tannehill to drayton is blasphemous. Tannehill is a “mediocre” qb with a good attitude that knows his role.
Drayton was a god awful coordinator that was actively sabotaging the team week after week.
Tannehill is rarely a saboteur of a team. He just isn’t going to elevate a team to new heights. The team needs good defense and a good run game to win. If they have these things, tannehill can manage most games to a win.
Drayton can’t manage anything to a win. Drayton is the Mason Rudolph of Coordinators.
Your analogy would only work if they started Rudolph and signed him to an extension.
Tannehills playoff career isn’t like Draytons…if anything it’s like Rodgers over the last decade…
<sigh>
Your response has nothing to do with my point. I wasn’t comparing Drayton to Tannehill directly. I was comparing the approach to winning a championship…or in predictably failing to do so.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 20:28
by Drj820
APB wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 20:08
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 18:52
APB wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 18:30
The Titans sought out that mediocre QB in FA. They also signed him to an extension. The coach and org stand behind him even though they know full well his “over achieving” play eventually fails them once they get to the higher level competition in the playoffs.
How is that so very different than Lafleur staying with Drayton last year? They both end in the same very predictable fashion. Sounds like pretty similar paths to me….
Comparing tannehill to drayton is blasphemous. Tannehill is a “mediocre” qb with a good attitude that knows his role.
Drayton was a god awful coordinator that was actively sabotaging the team week after week.
Tannehill is rarely a saboteur of a team. He just isn’t going to elevate a team to new heights. The team needs good defense and a good run game to win. If they have these things, tannehill can manage most games to a win.
Drayton can’t manage anything to a win. Drayton is the Mason Rudolph of Coordinators.
Your analogy would only work if they started Rudolph and signed him to an extension.
Tannehills playoff career isn’t like Draytons…if anything it’s like Rodgers over the last decade…
<sigh>
Your response has nothing to do with my point. I wasn’t comparing Drayton to Tannehill directly. I was comparing the approach to winning a championship…or in predictably failing to do so.
Still don’t understand your point at all. Can’t see how tannehill at qb has anything to do with keeping saboteur Drayton as ST coordinator.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 28 Nov 2022 21:25
by LombardiTime
To get this thread somewhat back on topic i think we will likely be seeing more articles like the one below that says that "Given how this season has played out, it is not only Barry who should be fired, but Green Bay needs to clean house on the defensive side of the ball."
https://dairylandexpress.com/2022/11/28 ... ing-staff/
There is nothing controversial about calling for Barry''s firing or that of the rest of the defensive coaching staff.
But do folks really think that replacing Barry, like he replaced Pettine who replaced Capers, is really all that needs to be done to change the long-standing defensive problems in Green Bay?
I am somewhat amazed that none of the media folks who cover the team have dived into just why it is that the defense has performed so poorly under two General Managers, two head coaches, three Defensive Coordinators, and a complete turnover of defensive personnel.
What I fear is that MLF, knowing he is under the microscope, is just going to hire another safe, veteran coach and we will get the same old Packer defense.
Anyway, it is already the season for speculating on what might happen on the defensive side of the ball in 2023.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 29 Nov 2022 04:56
by williewasgreat
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 20:28
APB wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 20:08
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 18:52
Comparing tannehill to drayton is blasphemous. Tannehill is a “mediocre” qb with a good attitude that knows his role.
Drayton was a god awful coordinator that was actively sabotaging the team week after week.
Tannehill is rarely a saboteur of a team. He just isn’t going to elevate a team to new heights. The team needs good defense and a good run game to win. If they have these things, tannehill can manage most games to a win.
Drayton can’t manage anything to a win. Drayton is the Mason Rudolph of Coordinators.
Your analogy would only work if they started Rudolph and signed him to an extension.
Tannehills playoff career isn’t like Draytons…if anything it’s like Rodgers over the last decade…
<sigh>
Your response has nothing to do with my point. I wasn’t comparing Drayton to Tannehill directly. I was comparing the approach to winning a championship…or in predictably failing to do so.
Still don’t understand your point at all. Can’t see how tannehill at qb has anything to do with keeping saboteur Drayton as ST coordinator.
I think his point is that the Titans do fine in the regular season and then fail miserably in the playoffs. This is exactly what has been happening to the Packers in recent years.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 29 Nov 2022 06:50
by Yoop
LombardiTime wrote: ↑28 Nov 2022 21:25
To get this thread somewhat back on topic i think we will likely be seeing more articles like the one below that says that "Given how this season has played out, it is not only Barry who should be fired, but Green Bay needs to clean house on the defensive side of the ball."
https://dairylandexpress.com/2022/11/28 ... ing-staff/
There is nothing controversial about calling for Barry''s firing or that of the rest of the defensive coaching staff.
But do folks really think that replacing Barry, like he replaced Pettine who replaced Capers, is really all that needs to be done to change the long-standing defensive problems in Green Bay?
I am somewhat amazed that none of the media folks who cover the team have dived into just why it is that the defense has performed so poorly under two General Managers, two head coaches, three Defensive Coordinators, and a complete turnover of defensive personnel.
What I fear is that MLF, knowing he is under the microscope, is just going to hire another safe, veteran coach and we will get the same old Packer defense.
Anyway, it is already the season for speculating on what might happen on the defensive side of the ball in 2023.
I agree with this, in fact I would hire Leonard this morning before USC or someone else does, this idea of waiting till the season is over makes it harder for Leonard to evaluate staff and decide on his assistants, starting now would make sense.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 29 Nov 2022 07:05
by APB
This was the 3rd and 14 play just before half. Hurts threw to the uncovered D Smith for 13 yards prompting them to go for it on 4th and 1 and ultimately score before the half.
The Packers had called a timeout prior to this play to conserve clock and set the defense. This is what we got.
(1:10 - 2nd) Timeout #1 by GB at 01:10.
3rd & 14 at PHI 48
(1:10 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Hurts pass short left to D.Smith to GB 39 for 13 yards (Q.Walker; J.Alexander). GB-I.McDuffie was injured during the play.
I mean, it's just criminal.