Packers Huddle

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:50

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:43

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:39

I bet if drayton was a leftover from the MM era he would be gone by now mid year.

Lafleur doesn’t want to can the guy he just hired for the job mid year even though it is needed. Two reasons:

1) he and Lafleur are probably pals
2) Lafleur hired his pal and doesn’t want to see reality and admit he made an awful hire.

A few of us were puzzled from the beginning how hiring from within on a unit that was god awful last year seemed like a good idea.

Silliness. He's not firing a coach midseason because we're in the running for the 1-seed and firing coaches mid-season is what teams that have given up on the year do.

I just don't understand what everyone thinks is going to happen when you fire a special teams coach, bring a new guy in, and try to start from scratch. Like, will more confusion and change make the guys less confused and more disciplined? That's just not a thing that is usually on the table. You don't fire coaches midseason when your season isn't "over"

Draytons season should be over. You dont fire him and then bring in someone from the outside. You fire him and promote someone already on the staff and give them the title of "interim". The goal of doing that is not drastic improvement due to improvement in scheme, its accountability. Its recognizing that STs is the one unit that will keep this team from winning a SB and you make the move now (or a month ago) instead of watching the car head toward the train tracks and waiting for the inevitable collision.

You fire Drayton and everyone wakes up and knows the level of play we have seen is inexcusable and anyone that is contributing to it being a dumpster fire, can be gone at any time if they dont wake up and do better.

Accountability.

But what if the assistant ST coaches MLF could give a promotion to are no improvement?

Labrev wrote: ↑

13 Dec 2021 21:43

Kind of wonder what would justify giving Aaron a grade below 75.3. I wouldn't describe his performance as above average, seem pretty damned high quality to me.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:54

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:39

I bet if drayton was a leftover from the MM era he would be gone by now mid year.

He is a leftover from the MM era...

Yeah I just meant as head coordinator. Like Lafleur hired him for that role, he wasnt there already when Lafleur came in.

Pugger wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:57

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:50

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:43

Silliness. He's not firing a coach midseason because we're in the running for the 1-seed and firing coaches mid-season is what teams that have given up on the year do.

I just don't understand what everyone thinks is going to happen when you fire a special teams coach, bring a new guy in, and try to start from scratch. Like, will more confusion and change make the guys less confused and more disciplined? That's just not a thing that is usually on the table. You don't fire coaches midseason when your season isn't "over"

Draytons season should be over. You dont fire him and then bring in someone from the outside. You fire him and promote someone already on the staff and give them the title of "interim". The goal of doing that is not drastic improvement due to improvement in scheme, its accountability. Its recognizing that STs is the one unit that will keep this team from winning a SB and you make the move now (or a month ago) instead of watching the car head toward the train tracks and waiting for the inevitable collision.

You fire Drayton and everyone wakes up and knows the level of play we have seen is inexcusable and anyone that is contributing to it being a dumpster fire, can be gone at any time if they dont wake up and do better.

Accountability.

But what if the assistant ST coaches MLF could give a promotion to are no improvement?

I dont think it can be worse, so i think we would see improvement. But the main reason I would do it is to say "this is a championship caliber team, those who are hurting our chances of winning a championship will not be allowed to continue on this ride". Wake up call/Accountability.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:50

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:43

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:39

I bet if drayton was a leftover from the MM era he would be gone by now mid year.

Lafleur doesn’t want to can the guy he just hired for the job mid year even though it is needed. Two reasons:

1) he and Lafleur are probably pals
2) Lafleur hired his pal and doesn’t want to see reality and admit he made an awful hire.

A few of us were puzzled from the beginning how hiring from within on a unit that was god awful last year seemed like a good idea.

Silliness. He's not firing a coach midseason because we're in the running for the 1-seed and firing coaches mid-season is what teams that have given up on the year do.

I just don't understand what everyone thinks is going to happen when you fire a special teams coach, bring a new guy in, and try to start from scratch. Like, will more confusion and change make the guys less confused and more disciplined? That's just not a thing that is usually on the table. You don't fire coaches midseason when your season isn't "over"

Draytons season should be over. You dont fire him and then bring in someone from the outside. You fire him and promote someone already on the staff and give them the title of "interim". The goal of doing that is not drastic improvement due to improvement in scheme, its accountability. Its recognizing that STs is the one unit that will keep this team from winning a SB and you make the move now (or a month ago) instead of watching the car head toward the train tracks and waiting for the inevitable collision.

You fire Drayton and everyone wakes up and knows the level of play we have seen is inexcusable and anyone that is contributing to it being a dumpster fire, can be gone at any time if they dont wake up and do better.

Accountability.

thats not accountability, accountability starts with Lafluer helping Drayton any way he can, along with Guty searching the league for a better returner option, our ST's have actually improved with Drayton, to think firing Drayton is some sort of solution now versus seasons end is counter productive, I was pleased to hear Matt say hell no we are not firing Drayton, imho thats just looking for a scapegoat.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:00

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:54

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:39

I bet if drayton was a leftover from the MM era he would be gone by now mid year.

He is a leftover from the MM era...

Yeah I just meant as head coordinator. Like Lafleur hired him for that role, he wasnt there already when Lafleur came in.

It would kind of invalidate the whole "pals" scenario then...

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:02

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:50

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:43

Silliness. He's not firing a coach midseason because we're in the running for the 1-seed and firing coaches mid-season is what teams that have given up on the year do.

I just don't understand what everyone thinks is going to happen when you fire a special teams coach, bring a new guy in, and try to start from scratch. Like, will more confusion and change make the guys less confused and more disciplined? That's just not a thing that is usually on the table. You don't fire coaches midseason when your season isn't "over"

Draytons season should be over. You dont fire him and then bring in someone from the outside. You fire him and promote someone already on the staff and give them the title of "interim". The goal of doing that is not drastic improvement due to improvement in scheme, its accountability. Its recognizing that STs is the one unit that will keep this team from winning a SB and you make the move now (or a month ago) instead of watching the car head toward the train tracks and waiting for the inevitable collision.

You fire Drayton and everyone wakes up and knows the level of play we have seen is inexcusable and anyone that is contributing to it being a dumpster fire, can be gone at any time if they dont wake up and do better.

Accountability.

thats not accountability, accountability starts with Lafluer helping Drayton any way he can, along with Guty searching the league for a better returner option, our ST's have actually improved with Drayton, to think firing Drayton is some sort of solution now versus seasons end is counter productive, I was pleased to hear Matt say hell no we are not firing Drayton, imho thats just looking for a scapegoat.

scapegoat would be Drayton firing one of his assistance for the failures of the unit instead of looking in the mirror. In this situation, Drayton actually is the head goat.

And the ST are far worse than they were last year, hard to fathom, i know.

I do think we need to see what Rayna Stewart can do as coordinator.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:06

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:00

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:54

He is a leftover from the MM era...

Yeah I just meant as head coordinator. Like Lafleur hired him for that role, he wasnt there already when Lafleur came in.

It would kind of invalidate the whole "pals" scenario then...

I dont see it that way. They might have become great friends. I basically just brought that option forward because I cant see any other reason Lafleur would promote from within on the worse unit in the league unless Drayton is just incredibly cheap.

They might have, and they might not have. We don't have any evidence they are pals. That's definitely not the only scenario that would work and not a good one to boot.

A better scenario is exactly what Yoho spelled out:

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:43

He's not firing a coach midseason because we're in the running for the 1-seed and firing coaches mid-season is what teams that have given up on the year do.

I just don't understand what everyone thinks is going to happen when you fire a special teams coach, bring a new guy in, and try to start from scratch. Like, will more confusion and change make the guys less confused and more disciplined? That's just not a thing that is usually on the table. You don't fire coaches midseason when your season isn't "over"

I don't necessarily think that would play out that way should we give Rayna Stewart the nod, but it is a plausible reason, much more so than, "they are pals."

If that was the case Matt LaFleur should fire himself.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:01

Pugger wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:57

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:50

Draytons season should be over. You dont fire him and then bring in someone from the outside. You fire him and promote someone already on the staff and give them the title of "interim". The goal of doing that is not drastic improvement due to improvement in scheme, its accountability. Its recognizing that STs is the one unit that will keep this team from winning a SB and you make the move now (or a month ago) instead of watching the car head toward the train tracks and waiting for the inevitable collision.

You fire Drayton and everyone wakes up and knows the level of play we have seen is inexcusable and anyone that is contributing to it being a dumpster fire, can be gone at any time if they dont wake up and do better.

Accountability.

But what if the assistant ST coaches MLF could give a promotion to are no improvement?

I dont think it can be worse, so i think we would see improvement. But the main reason I would do it is to say "this is a championship caliber team, those who are hurting our chances of winning a championship will not be allowed to continue on this ride". Wake up call/Accountability.

of course it can be worse, it has been worse, for god sakes 23 just brought facts that we are improved, we've only had a 10 or so returns go past the 25 yrd line, out of 60 plus kicks, and your focusing in on about 4 or 5 returns.

the only message sent by firing Drayton is that we act compulsively and without regard for the possibility that our actions could actually result negatively towards our goal, as wiser people then me have said, often the best action, is actually no action, or in regards to Amari, just get a better returner to try.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:11

They might have, and they might not have. That's definitely not the only scenario that would work and not a good one to boot.

A better scenario is exactly what Yoho spelled out:

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:43

He's not firing a coach midseason because we're in the running for the 1-seed and firing coaches mid-season is what teams that have given up on the year do.

I just don't understand what everyone thinks is going to happen when you fire a special teams coach, bring a new guy in, and try to start from scratch. Like, will more confusion and change make the guys less confused and more disciplined? That's just not a thing that is usually on the table. You don't fire coaches midseason when your season isn't "over"

I don't necessarily think that would play out that way should we give Rayna Stewart the nod, but it is a plausible reason, much more so than, "they are pals."

If that was the case Matt LaFleur should fire himself.

Hiring a buddy is not a firable offense unless you refuse to cut bait with that buddy and let him sink your ship. That has happened many times. People hire their pals all the time for all kinds of jobs. They think they will work well with them and their affection toward the person creates a bias when hiring.

I could easily move beyond this theory for why Drayton was hired tho and just settle on "he must have been cheap to hire".

Either way, I dont think you wait till the car crashes to replace the known broken wheel.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:06

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:02

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 09:50

Draytons season should be over. You dont fire him and then bring in someone from the outside. You fire him and promote someone already on the staff and give them the title of "interim". The goal of doing that is not drastic improvement due to improvement in scheme, its accountability. Its recognizing that STs is the one unit that will keep this team from winning a SB and you make the move now (or a month ago) instead of watching the car head toward the train tracks and waiting for the inevitable collision.

You fire Drayton and everyone wakes up and knows the level of play we have seen is inexcusable and anyone that is contributing to it being a dumpster fire, can be gone at any time if they dont wake up and do better.

Accountability.

thats not accountability, accountability starts with Lafluer helping Drayton any way he can, along with Guty searching the league for a better returner option, our ST's have actually improved with Drayton, to think firing Drayton is some sort of solution now versus seasons end is counter productive, I was pleased to hear Matt say hell no we are not firing Drayton, imho thats just looking for a scapegoat.

scapegoat would be Drayton firing one of his assistance for the failures of the unit instead of looking in the mirror. In this situation, Drayton actually is the head goat.

And the ST are far worse than they were last year, hard to fathom, i know.

wrong, we ranked 29th in the league for 2020, and this year we rank 22nd, I doubt we fire Drayton at all, we are better in every category over a season ago.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings/special-teams

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:26

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:06

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:02

thats not accountability, accountability starts with Lafluer helping Drayton any way he can, along with Guty searching the league for a better returner option, our ST's have actually improved with Drayton, to think firing Drayton is some sort of solution now versus seasons end is counter productive, I was pleased to hear Matt say hell no we are not firing Drayton, imho thats just looking for a scapegoat.

scapegoat would be Drayton firing one of his assistance for the failures of the unit instead of looking in the mirror. In this situation, Drayton actually is the head goat.

And the ST are far worse than they were last year, hard to fathom, i know.

wrong, we ranked 29th in the league for 2020, and this year we rank 22nd, I doubt we fire Drayton at all, we are better in every category over a season ago.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings/special-teams

Stats can be manipulated to prove anything that you want to prove.

1) i said we were "worst in the league", you saying we were 29th makes my comment hardly even hyperbole. Thats god awful for a team that played in the NFCCG!

2) The only reason we are at 22 is because of the new punter. He has done great. Look at your stats that you linked to with a critical eye. Borquz is top ten in almost any stat he has a role in influencing, we are #1 in FGs made against us and FGAttempts against us (maybe this means we just give up TDs instead), and we are

1) 2nd to last in our own FG%
2) 3rd to last in the opponent returning our kicks
3) 2nd to last in yards given up on KRs
4) and 25th in our own KR yards.

In addition, your stat book says nothing about muffs, fielding KOs that are heading out of bounds, and letting punts go that roll another 15 yards.

Despite what you say, we are not good at STs.

I mean look, everyone on the coaching staff has preparation roles throughout the week and gameday roles.

Changing the staff in the middle of the season means changing those operations. It means we'd be short-staffed in some regard, unless MLF has members of the coaching staff with a bunch of free time twiddling their thumbs.

The assistant ST coach has gameday responsibilities that someone would have to pick up. The ST practice structure would have to change. The QC coaches for offense or defense would probably have to pick up slack.

You're asking for something that makes no sense. We get it, STs are garbage. Drayton has failed at his job this year. He should lose it.

But you don't just fire people and rervamp the staff responsibilities in week 15 of a season in which you're fighting for the #1 seed and best record in the NFL. If they were going to try it, it would have been at the start of the bye. I could see a case for that being attempted, give you some time to re-org the group.

But right now you're trying to reorganize the boat while it's still in the storm. Get home safe, perform an after action review, and make the appropriate moves to move forward. Firing a guy right now creates as many problems as it solves. It's like taking on a new employee in the middle of busy season, instead of staffing up beforehand. The effort it takes to train the new employee actually lowers productivity, not raises it.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:42

Get home safe

You keep Drayton if you think "getting home safe" is a possibility.
You fire him if you no longer think it is possible.

As of today, I think STs in the playoffs is going to cost us a SB.

However, this could change.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:35

Despite what you say, we are not good at STs.

never said we where, agree after looking over the stats, we are not good, and Drayton will probably be replaced in the off season, but not till then.

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:50

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:35

Despite what you say, we are not good at STs.

never said we where, agree after looking over the stats, we are not good, and Drayton will probably be replaced in the off season, but not till then.

Well okay then, thats a different argument. I am comfortable standing alone in my call to fire Drayton at this point in the year. However, when you were harping on how we have improved and how you doubt he will be fired at all, I thought you were implying our ST play was acceptable.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:49

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:42

Get home safe

You keep Drayton if you think "getting home safe" is a possibility.
You fire him if you no longer think it is possible.

As of today, I think STs in the playoffs is going to cost us a SB.

However, this could change.

ST very well may cost us a super bowl! But also revamping the position coaches may, also. The problem with STs is something that exists on our team at that point. We just live it and try to overcome it, just like any other weakness on any contending team. The problems sure look deeper than quick fixes, and the time to make drastic changes has passed. For now, painful as it may be, it just... is.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:53

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:50

Drj820 wrote: ↑

14 Dec 2021 10:35

Despite what you say, we are not good at STs.

never said we where, agree after looking over the stats, we are not good, and Drayton will probably be replaced in the off season, but not till then.

Well okay then, thats a different argument. I am comfortable standing alone in my call to fire Drayton at this point in the year. However, when you were harping on how we have improved and how you doubt he will be fired at all, I thought you were implying our ST play was acceptable.

no, mostly what I'am defending is KO coverage, our yrds against are high because Crosby kicks it to the 5 and the return is some where close to the 25, yes we had a few go a little longer, and several much farther.

obviously all it takes is a big return to tip momentum or the outcome of a game, and Rodgers lends no faith that he'll improve over the crap he's produced thus far, so we should try and bring Tyler Irving or another in for try outs, imo the best we can hope for is mistake free ST's play, nothing more.