Packers Huddle

Yoop wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 06:20

Labrev wrote: ↑

12 Jun 2023 17:46

Or maybe... maybe that goes to show that the position group did NOT lack talent as alleged, since the same talent (other than 1 WR improving between seasons) was good enough to support a QB's MVP season!!

the only reason you defend these second and third tier receivers is because you hate Rodgers, your a funny guy, Rodgers will go into the HOF as the highest rated passer, and if our GM's would have kept drafting QB's in the 2nd round we'd probably have a couple more Lombardi's

And THERE'S the goalpost moving!

> "Rodgers's two years of bad play before 2020 was lack of WR talent!" ... but he won MVP with the exact same talent.
> UH OH!! "Uhh.... well he would have won the SuperBowl if he had better WR talent!"

... oh, you mean all those Lombardis we won from 2011 to 2016 with the many 2nd Round WRs we had?

Look at this illogic and delusion, yoop. Truly, it is breathtaking stuff.

Lol "more lombardis" my ass. The WR talent is good enough to have an MVP year, put up the best production by a QB second only to his 2011 (which, by the way, we DIDN'T), but not win a SuperBowl?

And yet, teams win the SuperBowl every year without besting this wild, arcade-style pass production.

Nothing is ever good enough for the Rodgers Cult. This is why I choose Rodgers hate. You think it's some personal grudge I harbor towards him. It's not, it's solely the fact that being at all critical of him makes you a "hater" of his according to the Rodgers Cult.

Well then, have fun in your cult. I am not going to give up my right to call it as I see it just to please people who can never be pleased.

go pak go wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 08:29

Yoop wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 07:54

go pak go wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 06:57

You stated MVS got better after his rookie season which is why Rodgers production got better (particularly in 2019) which isn't really true. MVS actually had a decline in production in 2019. He did have an uptick in TDs in 2020 due to an increase in long ball catches but overall his production between 2018 and 2021 was quite consistent on a per game basis with 2020 being his best year and 2019 being his worst year.

By far and away the receiver to point to who elevated his player after 2018 was Davante Adams. Adams went from "we were shocked to hear him say he is a top 10 WR" in 2018 to clearly the league's best WR in 2019 - 2021.

using MVS and not the rest of the WR, RB's OL, was probably wrong simply because your using it to twist this around, the point is under Lafleurs new offensive schemes everything improved, which helped Rodgers to improve.

he didn't go from a declining QB to all of a sudden vastly better because he decided to as you and others suggest, it took a few games but Rodgers adapted to Lafleurs offense as well as any QB has with any scheme change.
and he'll do it again for the Jets.

I haven't suggested anything in this mini-series though I have given significant credit to MLF for turning Rodgers around in the past. I have been very consistent on that.

I simply read a post of yours that didn't make sense and politely warned that you were heading down a path of using wrong information to try and win an argument. And as usual, you got defensive when I did it and then followed up with when specifically called out, "it doesn't matter the larger point is we have it in for Rodgers"

But to your question, like all things in life, the final answer is likely a combination of everything. MLF definitely was a genius in adapting his scheme for better results, but Rodgers also deserves a ton of credit for getting serious and significantly turning his play around after a couple of years of poor play for Rodgers standard (around average play for NFL standards)

again you blame Rodgers for the ineptness of not only poor coaching, but the GM's dropping the ball with talent decline. and players tend to improve from year 1, maybe MVS didn't but allison, Kumerow, Tonyan and others have.

Labrev wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 09:04

Yoop wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 06:20

Labrev wrote: ↑

12 Jun 2023 17:46

Or maybe... maybe that goes to show that the position group did NOT lack talent as alleged, since the same talent (other than 1 WR improving between seasons) was good enough to support a QB's MVP season!!

the only reason you defend these second and third tier receivers is because you hate Rodgers, your a funny guy, Rodgers will go into the HOF as the highest rated passer, and if our GM's would have kept drafting QB's in the 2nd round we'd probably have a couple more Lombardi's

And THERE'S the goalpost moving!

> "Rodgers's two years of bad play before 2020 was lack of WR talent!" ... but he won MVP with the exact same talent.
> UH OH!! "Uhh.... well he would have won the SuperBowl if he had better WR talent!"

... oh, you mean all those Lombardis we won from 2011 to 2016 with the many 2nd Round WRs we had?

Look at this illogic and delusion, yoop. Truly, it is breathtaking stuff.

Lol "more lombardis" my ass. The WR talent is good enough to have an MVP year, put up the best production by a QB second only to his 2011 (which, by the way, we DIDN'T), but not win a SuperBowl?

And yet, teams win the SuperBowl every year without besting this wild, arcade-style pass production.

Nothing is ever good enough for the Rodgers Cult. This is why I choose Rodgers hate. You think it's some personal grudge I harbor towards him. It's not, it's solely the fact that being at all critical of him makes you a "hater" of his according to the Rodgers Cult.

Well then, have fun in your cult. I am not going to give up my right to call it as I see it just to please people who can never be pleased.

no one is moving goal post, your hate for any defense of Rodgers has blinded you

Rodgers can have the very best group of receivers possible, all it takes is a Bosteck to ruin a game, or a defense that can't stop the run or the passing.

Rodgers had a great season in 2019, we went 13-3, according to you he sucked, so obviously it ruins your whole reply, you are in fact a Rodgers hater, and you hate anyone that defends him, so obvious.

and at NO time should a talent like Rodgers ever have less then two very good receivers, not freaking ever, unless one of the two is injured, in fact that is the number one reason to have multiple WR that a DC has to scheme double coverage for.

take a look at what Guty just did in the last 2 drafts, seriously are you BLIND, he just did what he and Thompson should have done in 2016 and 2017.

the term defense wins championships doesn't apply to the Packers, we've spent almost all top picks to it and it hasn't even come close, I like our chances more if we'd have used more of em to help Rodgers.

Minus Rodgers the last 10 years this team doesn't even make the PO's, ever in that span.

Acrobat wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 10:21

Just wanted to say, it's great to come back from a 4 day vacation to seeing these arguments!

They never end. At least they go mostly on football talk and not as much name calling.
:-)

Yoop wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 09:41

Rodgers can have the very best group of receivers possible, all it takes is a Bosteck to ruin a game, or a defense that can't stop the run or the passing.

Okay, so I was right: nothing is ever enough for Rodgers Cult.

You just said it yourself, he can have the very best group of receivers possible, yet it will always be someone else's fault when we lose. Zero thought is given to if Rodgers's play was good or bad, just automatically absolve him from all blame.

You always say I put "all" the blame on Rodgers. Not true, that is YOUR attitude (you're with Rodgers 100%, or you're against him) you project onto me, because your black-and-white mind can't grasp nuance.

Rodgers had a great season in 2019, we went 13-3, according to you he sucked,

Wrong, I never claimed he sucked in 2019. Roll the tape back:

Labrev wrote: ↑

12 Jun 2023 11:42

Love was drafted as insurance for Rodgers faltering; AR was not playing great.

Didn't say he sucked, just that he was not playing great.

I am objectively correct about that, and I can prove it. MVP consideration is a reasonable measure of great play. He won an MVP award in 2020. He did not get A VOTE for that award in 2019. He did not even get a vote for Offensive Player of the Year in 2019, while Mahomes and Russell Wilson did. So yes, in fact, Rodgers was not playing great football.

It's very telling that when I say he didn't play great (and he didn't, evidenced by the difference in MVP consideration between that year and the next) and you claim I said he "sucked." It shows that even the smallest criticisms, even provably true, are a Thought Crime to the Rodgers Cult.

Labrev wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 11:40

You just said it yourself, he can have the very best group of receivers possible, yet it will always be someone else's fault when we lose. Zero thought is given to if Rodgers's play was good or bad, just automatically absolve him from all blame.

THATS BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE LOST THE GAME, are you seriously so deranged with your hate that you can't deal with logical conclusions???????

Rodgers has never on himself lost a PO game, or even a regular season game, yet you and some other blame him for not carrying this team to victory, get real, that is the crux of your hate, since Rodgers was the highest paid player he is responsible any time we lose, got it.

Yoop wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 11:58

Labrev wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 11:40

You just said it yourself, he can have the very best group of receivers possible, yet it will always be someone else's fault when we lose. Zero thought is given to if Rodgers's play was good or bad, just automatically absolve him from all blame.

THATS BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE LOST THE GAME, are you seriously so deranged with your hate that you can't deal with logical conclusions???????

If we lose a game, I want to see how the players played and make that determination dispassionately. That is not "hate," that is rationality, something that clearly does not jive with your preference to just slavishly worship players. Get a grip.

Labrev wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 12:08

Yoop wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 11:58

Labrev wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 11:40

You just said it yourself, he can have the very best group of receivers possible, yet it will always be someone else's fault when we lose. Zero thought is given to if Rodgers's play was good or bad, just automatically absolve him from all blame.

THATS BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE LOST THE GAME, are you seriously so deranged with your hate that you can't deal with logical conclusions???????

If we lose a game, I want to see how the players played and make that determination dispassionately. That is not "hate," that is rationality, something that clearly does not jive with your preference to just slavishly worship players. Get a grip.

you may think that is what you do, but you've blamed Rodgers for not winning the game or playing as perfect as he often has with just about every loss, your so intent on painting me as a Rodgers hero worshiper you fail to grasp how your story changes.

I won't budge on the neglect our GM's have shown Rodgers about WR's, what Guty just did these last 2 drafts for Love is what was needed since 2015 with Rodgers.

Imagine a world where one can believe that the Packers could have done more to give Rodgers weapons and at the same time, acknowledge that Rodgers' play declined and/or he could have played better in certain games for reasons outside of his surrounding cast.

Acrobat wrote: ↑

13 Jun 2023 12:52

Imagine a world where one can believe that the Packers could have done more to give Rodgers weapons and at the same time, acknowledge that Rodgers' play declined and/or he could have played better in certain games for reasons outside of his surrounding cast.

In that world, this is a 3 page thread.

Great Minds Think Something Something!

Ex-Jets Coach Sounds off on Aaron Rodgers, Issues Warning to Robert Saleh

If anyone knows what the New York Jets are about to go through in 2023 it is Eric Mangini.

The longtime NFL coach was the head honcho for the Jets in 2008 when the team acquired superstar quarterback Brett Favre in a blockbuster deal with the Green Bay Packers.

“They’re getting a pissed off Aaron Rodgers, which is exactly the Aaron Rodgers you want,” former Jets coach Eric Mangini told Rich Cimini of ESPN in a column posted on Wednesday, June 14. “When he was pissed off about Jordan Love, he won the MVP. When he was pissed off about his contract, he won the MVP. When Jordan Love wasn’t an issue and the contract was taken care of, not as great. Now he’s pissed off. It’s perfect.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ex ... 4d0ac&ei=8

Labrev wrote: ↑

14 Jun 2023 14:37

Great Minds Think Something Something!

Ex-Jets Coach Sounds off on Aaron Rodgers, Issues Warning to Robert Saleh

If anyone knows what the New York Jets are about to go through in 2023 it is Eric Mangini.

The longtime NFL coach was the head honcho for the Jets in 2008 when the team acquired superstar quarterback Brett Favre in a blockbuster deal with the Green Bay Packers.

“They’re getting a pissed off Aaron Rodgers, which is exactly the Aaron Rodgers you want,” former Jets coach Eric Mangini told Rich Cimini of ESPN in a column posted on Wednesday, June 14. “When he was pissed off about Jordan Love, he won the MVP. When he was pissed off about his contract, he won the MVP. When Jordan Love wasn’t an issue and the contract was taken care of, not as great. Now he’s pissed off. It’s perfect.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ex ... 4d0ac&ei=8

The problem is that AR is soon to be 40. He can be pissed off all the Jets want, but father time can only be delayed so long. It is entirely possible that a pissed off 40 year old AR is less effective than either a pissed off 28 year or a 40 year old Rodgers that is at peace with himself

so a old fired coach of the Jets 15 years ago has a opinion because after all he got to be the coach of another ex HOF Packer QB so he knows what, that both QB's where pissed of at there old team when they left it.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2023 04:54

Labrev wrote: ↑

14 Jun 2023 14:37

Great Minds Think Something Something!

Ex-Jets Coach Sounds off on Aaron Rodgers, Issues Warning to Robert Saleh

If anyone knows what the New York Jets are about to go through in 2023 it is Eric Mangini.

The longtime NFL coach was the head honcho for the Jets in 2008 when the team acquired superstar quarterback Brett Favre in a blockbuster deal with the Green Bay Packers.

“They’re getting a pissed off Aaron Rodgers, which is exactly the Aaron Rodgers you want,” former Jets coach Eric Mangini told Rich Cimini of ESPN in a column posted on Wednesday, June 14. “When he was pissed off about Jordan Love, he won the MVP. When he was pissed off about his contract, he won the MVP. When Jordan Love wasn’t an issue and the contract was taken care of, not as great. Now he’s pissed off. It’s perfect.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ex ... 4d0ac&ei=8

The problem is that AR is soon to be 40. He can be pissed off all the Jets want, but father time can only be delayed so long. It is entirely possible that a pissed off 40 year old AR is less effective than either a pissed off 28 year or a 40 year old Rodgers that is at peace with himself

That, plus AR has had more than his share of injuries. And he’s played through them remarkably well over the years. But the older he gets, I wonder if he will be able to still play at a high level through the pain.

Larger in my mind, is that I don’t think he is an elite player any longer (MVP two years ago notwithstanding). He’s still good. But all the “dings” might add up pretty well every year that he continues. It’s just a fact of getting older (unless you’re TB12).

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2023 08:30

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2023 04:54

Labrev wrote: ↑

14 Jun 2023 14:37

Great Minds Think Something Something!


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ex ... 4d0ac&ei=8

The problem is that AR is soon to be 40. He can be pissed off all the Jets want, but father time can only be delayed so long. It is entirely possible that a pissed off 40 year old AR is less effective than either a pissed off 28 year or a 40 year old Rodgers that is at peace with himself

That, plus AR has had more than his share of injuries. And he’s played through them remarkably well over the years. But the older he gets, I wonder if he will be able to still play at a high level through the pain.

Larger in my mind, is that I don’t think he is an elite player any longer (MVP two years ago notwithstanding). He’s still good. But all the “dings” might add up pretty well every year that he continues. It’s just a fact of getting older (unless you’re TB12).

Rodgers's physical tools are no longer elite, but you don't necessarily need elite tools to get elite production. Rather than make the insane throws or scramble around, you beat the other team with superior IQ.

That is what my hope would have been in 2019-2020, that he would age into a style of play where he's not trying to play selfish MVP Ball but more like Game Manager+.

It wouldn't surprise me if he suddenly stops playing Hero Ball in NYJ and plays more like he should have for a couple of seasons now, not unlike how he did for one game last season (Dallas, because he couldn't let McCarthy beat him).

The problem is, if he's not going to play like that here, better to just start Jordan Love, which is what we should have done -last- season. Skeptic was right all along.

Labrev wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2023 08:55

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2023 08:30

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2023 04:54

The problem is that AR is soon to be 40. He can be pissed off all the Jets want, but father time can only be delayed so long. It is entirely possible that a pissed off 40 year old AR is less effective than either a pissed off 28 year or a 40 year old Rodgers that is at peace with himself

That, plus AR has had more than his share of injuries. And he’s played through them remarkably well over the years. But the older he gets, I wonder if he will be able to still play at a high level through the pain.

Larger in my mind, is that I don’t think he is an elite player any longer (MVP two years ago notwithstanding). He’s still good. But all the “dings” might add up pretty well every year that he continues. It’s just a fact of getting older (unless you’re TB12).

Rodgers's physical tools are no longer elite, but you don't necessarily need elite tools to get elite production. Rather than make the insane throws or scramble around, you beat the other team with superior IQ.

That is what my hope would have been in 2019-2020, that he would age into a style of play where he's not trying to play selfish MVP Ball but more like Game Manager+.

It wouldn't surprise me if he suddenly stops playing Hero Ball in NYJ and plays more like he should have for a couple of seasons now, not unlike how he did for one game last season (Dallas, because he couldn't let McCarthy beat him).

The problem is, if he's not going to play like that here, better to just start Jordan Love, which is what we should have done -last- season. Skeptic was right all along.

come on Labreve, you insult yourself more then I or anyone else does when you discount everything that went wrong last year and not seeing Lazard in that PO game in 2021 when he had tunnel vision with Tae

not you, but others have claimed what we did offensively was Rodgers design of the offense and not Lafleurs simply because Rodgers said he wanted less motion and diversion, and was using more audibles and changing plays, imo most of that is over blown nonsense, the motion with rookies and young players has a higher chance for mistakes in the backfield, and extending plays has always been because receivers don't get open on schedule, thats it, why would any QB take a 3 to 5 yrd pass when there is opportunity for much more.

I can't believe all this media driven BS about Rodgers that fans just gobble up as the truth, I get people don't like Rodgers the person, but Rodgers the QB hasn't declined very much

Did you even read anything in my post after "no longer elite" -?

Labrev wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2023 10:00

Did you even read anything in my post after "no longer elite" -?

yes, and I disagreed because he was a game manager for every season under Lafleur, why you think otherwise is what I objected to, not only did he welcome a better balance of run to pass, he also excelled at getting the ball out quicker as long as the receivers got OPEN, what you fail to recognize is that they seldom did, and that was the only reason he extended plays.

I can't believe how purposely some here refuse to recognize the limitations a receiver puts on a QB when they lack consistency, just mind boggling for me, it's as though some of you never even played this game, yet want to spout all this media driven gibberish when evidence in plan sight shows Rodgers scanning back and forth for up to 4 and 5 seconds.

now does he miss a open receiver at times, of course he does, it's not humanly possible not to, but every miss becomes Rodgers is in decline, he doesn't have it any more, so lame, it has always been a WR issue, freaking ALWAYS, people (YOU) dislike Rodgers as a person and drag that into these talent decline scenarios, we all know he's a 40 year old QB that is no longer a 30 year old kid, but he's sure as hell capable as you briefly said.

so ya I read your post as I always do.

Yoop wrote: ↑

15 Jun 2023 10:16

so ya I read your post as I always do.

And as usual, you totally failed to understand it.

The rest of your post is just self-contradicting nonsense and

Also yoop, please post evidence of my dislike of Rodgers as a person. You make this accusation a lot. Prove it.

You won't find it, because it doesn't exist. I don't care about that. Like, -at all-. You think it's all personal/visceral type hate. No, it's the hate of bitter regret and disappointment, relating purely to football. On the rare occasion I talk about any off-field stuff, it's as I relate it to on-field stuff.