Packers Huddle

Gutey has fumbled the relationship with the HOF QB. It’s all been said but cmon it’s true. His actions have said that he looks forward to moving on from him. He moves up to get his replacement, he doesn’t get him any outside help this year, he brings backs overpaid liabilities, they promote from within on one of the worst ST units in football, they bring in a DC with an awful track record, they refuse to extend the MVP at first. They have basically screamed “we want you out of here in two years”

Hard to imagine that’s what they want consider he is a HOF qb playing at an MVP level still. But that’s the bed Gute has made.

Rodgers is a weird cat. He’s not gonna take all that on the chin with a smile. He’s acting in this situation like he seems to have acted in every personal feud of his past. Even with people extremely close to him that reconciliation would seem like the obvious choice.

All that said, to do it the way rodgers has done...removes my ability to have sympathy for him. He’s sabotaging the team when we have a good chance to be good this year. I judge him accordingly for that.

I want him back for one more rodeo, if that’s impossible at this point. Good riddance 12, I’m ready to give Love a chance.

And while doing that, just gutey accordingly, whose actions led to this early divorce.

bud fox wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 03:53

Some Packers fans are so fcked ... No competitive nature. deserve a losing team.

This is the sort of stuff I have a major problem with. It's such a thoughtless statement.

I would actually be on Team Aaron, as you are, if he did in fact prove he was a winner. See I do wanna win. I wanna win bad. But I am also willing to face the music and accept that Rodgers isn't a top end winner like Jordan or Brady. He just isn't.

Out of 12/13 seasons as a starter, he has been a full winner one time but that was largely because he was bailed out by his defense. Only one game you can point out in that 2010 run (2nd half ATL) where he took a game over. Otherwise it was the defense who stopped Vick. Rodgers played no better than Caleb Haney in the NFC Title Game and Rodgers couldn't put the game away inside the 10 yardline with under 2:30 to go vs Pittsburgh when they settled for a FG to go up by 6.

The Rodgers aura got so out of control because of some 2015 hail mary's and the run the table stretch in 2016 that it set this narrative that it was all Rodgers and nothing else. It has been lost on how good of rosters those 2009 - 2014 squads were or how good the 2019 - 2020 squads were.

Yes we can get into specifics and excuses of 2013 - 2014 injury or Dom Capers choke job in 2012 (because this forum has SOOOO MUCH already) but that doesn't necessarily mean it is a Packers Front Office failure or elevate Rodger's God level.

Rodgers is on a team and he needs to act like a team leader. He isn't afforded to be a d*ck at the cost of the team. If he won even half as much as Brady or Jordan has....I would change my mind and give him more leeway because he deserved it.

But he is ultimately a 1 time NFC and SB champ out of 13 seasons. You want to be treated like a god and holier than thou winner? Then win.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 08:35

Gutey has fumbled the relationship with the HOF QB. It’s all been said but cmon it’s true. His actions have said that he looks forward to moving on from him. He moves up to get his replacement, he doesn’t get him any outside help this year, he brings backs overpaid liabilities, they promote from within on one of the worst ST units in football, they bring in a DC with an awful track record, they refuse to extend the MVP at first. They have basically screamed “we want you out of here in two years”

Hard to imagine that’s what they want consider he is a HOF qb playing at an MVP level still. But that’s the bed Gute has made.

Rodgers is a weird cat. He’s not gonna take all that on the chin with a smile. He’s acting in this situation like he seems to have acted in every personal feud of his past. Even with people extremely close to him that reconciliation would seem like the obvious choice.

All that said, to do it the way rodgers has done...removes my ability to have sympathy for him. He’s sabotaging the team when we have a good chance to be good this year. I judge him accordingly for that.

I want him back for one more rodeo, if that’s impossible at this point. Good riddance 12, I’m ready to give Love a chance.

And while doing that, just gutey accordingly, whose actions led to this early divorce.

wow, you brought back a 1 year old thread to stir this pot.

thing is we only have one side of the story, and a vague one at that, mostly we are guessing about most everything based on media hype, the drafting of Love isn't the catalist imho, it's just the last straw, where into the blame game here and without more info we don't know who to blame for starting this &%$@ show.

our best chance to win in the next couple years is Rodgers, love was and is still just a security blanket, people that want to move on from Rodgers are not using there heads, the life after Rodgers for our team is a mystery, yes we have excellent support players, Love might do well, or he'll fail, not worth the gamble to me.

easy with hind sight to look back and scape goat Rodgers for why we lost playoff games, But even Brady had to rely on steller defenses to win those SB's, it wasn't Rodgers fault in 2014 Seahawks game, McCarthy ran Lacy against that 11 man box 3 times, the Hawks had everyone on the los.

same with other games we lost, lis people always blame the QB when we lose.

the blame game......

your in such a hurry to get Love, your probably going to get your wish, and when losses games you'll likely blame him the same way.

and discounting your desire for a Rodgers Jersey is so lamo, that would be like me getting rid of a Bart Starr autographed starter jacket simply because he wasn't a very good coach.

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 09:15

easy with hind sight to look back and scape goat Rodgers for why we lost playoff games, But even Brady had to rely on steller defenses to win those SB's, it wasn't Rodgers fault in 2014 Seahawks game, McCarthy ran Lacy against that 11 man box 3 times, the Hawks had everyone on the los.

same with other games we lost, lis people always blame the QB when we lose.

the blame game......

your in such a hurry to get Love, your probably going to get your wish, and when losses games you'll likely blame him the same way.

You're in such a hurry to miss my point to always defend Rodgers to the bitter end whch is changing the subject entirely (which I even addressed in my post to help spread some blame because obviously it is a team game)

My point isn't to bash Rodgers. But when he wants to be treated with "I am above the team treatment" you better have the pedigree to back it up. And he simply doesn't.

go pak go wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 09:18

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 09:15

easy with hind sight to look back and scape goat Rodgers for why we lost playoff games, But even Brady had to rely on steller defenses to win those SB's, it wasn't Rodgers fault in 2014 Seahawks game, McCarthy ran Lacy against that 11 man box 3 times, the Hawks had everyone on the los.

same with other games we lost, lis people always blame the QB when we lose.

the blame game......

your in such a hurry to get Love, your probably going to get your wish, and when losses games you'll likely blame him the same way.

You're in such a hurry to miss my point to always defend Rodgers to the bitter end whch is changing the subject entirely (which I even addressed in my post to help spread some blame because obviously it is a team game)

My point isn't to bash Rodgers. But when he wants to be treated with "I am above the team treatment" you better have the pedigree to back it up. And he simply doesn't.

thats a bunch of hog wash and you know it, he's been a top 5 QB his whole career, and has 3 MVP's to prove it, go ask anyone with a football IQ and they'll say the same, I was right about the decline at WR, and also the complacency of McCarthy's schemes which obviously affected Rodgers, you, couldn't see the forest for the tree's then, you blamed Rodgers for every loss, and as expected your doing it again now, and I defend Rodgers because I think I'am right about this stuff.

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 09:38

go pak go wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 09:18

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 09:15

easy with hind sight to look back and scape goat Rodgers for why we lost playoff games, But even Brady had to rely on steller defenses to win those SB's, it wasn't Rodgers fault in 2014 Seahawks game, McCarthy ran Lacy against that 11 man box 3 times, the Hawks had everyone on the los.

same with other games we lost, lis people always blame the QB when we lose.

the blame game......

your in such a hurry to get Love, your probably going to get your wish, and when losses games you'll likely blame him the same way.

You're in such a hurry to miss my point to always defend Rodgers to the bitter end whch is changing the subject entirely (which I even addressed in my post to help spread some blame because obviously it is a team game)

My point isn't to bash Rodgers. But when he wants to be treated with "I am above the team treatment" you better have the pedigree to back it up. And he simply doesn't.

thats a bunch of hog wash and you know it, he's been a top 5 QB his whole career, and has 3 MVP's to prove it, go ask anyone with a football IQ and they'll say the same, I was right about the decline at WR, and also the complacency of McCarthy's schemes which obviously affected Rodgers, you, couldn't see the forest for the tree's then, you blamed Rodgers for every loss, and as expected your doing it again now, and I defend Rodgers because I'am right about this stuff.

So how many top 5 QB's have pulled this sh*t with their teams when they are going into year 4 of a 6 year contract (setting a record for most guaranteed money at time of signing) and on a team with legitimate championship hopes and the player simply says, "I don't want to play for X organization anymore?"

I thought it was assinine when Russell Wilson did it. And I think it's assinine now that Aaron is doing it. And both have the same thing in common. 1 ring and not enough clout to put themselves over their team.

Again. The point of this weekend isn't to bash Rodgers's play. He is very good. I would put him Top 5 all time. Probably above Brees for sure above Favre but below Peyton.

The only other parallels you could have here is when the Colts released Peyton. Except they are completely different.

1. Peyton came off a huge injury.
2. The Colts used a #1 pick on Andrew Luck. Completely different than using the 26th pick on a backup-developmental QB
3. The Colts were ready to start their new era. The Packers are still in a prime window of their old era.
4. The Colts roster was a loser. They were coming off the worst season in the NFL to have the #1 pick. The Packers had the best record in the NFC and kept the roster intact.
5. It made really no difference if Peyton suited up as a Colt. They were likely a 6 to 9 win team even with an effective Manning. The Packers will have the expectation of 12+ wins once again.

I honest to goodness don't care about bashing Rodgers and calling him a loser. That is not my intent when I make these posts. But when I hear arguments that the Packers have done nothing but disrespect Rodgers for the last decade and this narrative forms that the Packers owe excess preferential treatment to Rodgers and that Rodgers is the only one who is a winner and who wants to win...then I need to start making arguments to get the discussion back to reality.

Also, MM sucking was the 2015 - 2018 era which I pointed out. MM was pretty damned good though in the 2009 - 2014 era. Same with the WR decline. Let's not be having conversations where they don't belong. I am not going to argue the Packers organization fell apart from 2015 - 2018. But guess what. The current Packers brass has corrected those faults. Those arguments of 2015 - 2018 are irrelevant right now because the Packers 2009 - 2014 were great and CURRENTLY, the Packers 2019 - 2021 are also setup to be great.

It's just that Rodgers doesn't want to continue it

In Managerial Accounting we call the term "sunk cost". Meaning it is poor decision making and useless to make a decision based on irrelevant inputs already put into a situation. It doesn't matter any longer that the 2015 - 2018 Packers sucked. Which they did.

What matters is the 2019 - 2021 Packers don't suck and Rodgers doesn't want to continue the train.

I would say both Wilson and Rodgers were impacted by watching TB12 roll down to TB, gain complete control, bring his buddies to town, and win a ring.

They all want to call their own shots now and do it that way.

Unlike what they may think tho, they just aren’t TB12. People arent signing for less to go play with Arod. Most people think he is a d***. And you can be a d*** if you have multiple rings. Arod doesn’t.

Brady didn't really benefit from his "friends" joining but more benefited by going to a team that had 3 or 4 years of talent built up from drafts because the Bucs sucked.

Outside of the SB, even guys like Gronk primarily was of little impact.

go pak go wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 09:56

Also, MM sucking was the 2015 - 2018 era which I pointed out. MM was pretty damned good though in the 2009 - 2014 era. Same with the WR decline. Let's not be having conversations where they don't belong. I am not going to argue the Packers organization fell apart from 2015 - 2018. But guess what. The current Packers brass has corrected those faults. Those arguments of 2015 - 2018 are irrelevant right now because the Packers 2009 - 2014 were great and CURRENTLY, the Packers 2019 - 2021 are also setup to be great.

of course you don't want to talk about the 015 to 018 McCarthy years, those are the years when the riff started, or that McCarthy called plays in the Seahawks game are what lost it, or the 3 stooges Guty brought in as soon as he became GM, or the lack of balls demonstrated when the FO gave McCarthy that lame duck season.

I expect eventually we'll find out that Rodgers wanted the FO to hire a new coach prior to that season, and also that Guty chastised him for not doing all he could to save McCarthy's job, and again when Rodgers complained about the Lafluer hiring without even a heads up phone call, and we'll come to realize that the LOve pick was just the last straw.

I can get on board with Love, but it's a situation that didn't need to happen, I hold both sides to blame, however as I said the FO more, common courtesy would have been to consider Rodgers feelings with some of these decisions, imo specially with the McCarthy stuff, the guy had said for 2 years we needed to make changes, they brushed him off and he's resented it ever since.

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 10:22

go pak go wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 09:56

Also, MM sucking was the 2015 - 2018 era which I pointed out. MM was pretty damned good though in the 2009 - 2014 era. Same with the WR decline. Let's not be having conversations where they don't belong. I am not going to argue the Packers organization fell apart from 2015 - 2018. But guess what. The current Packers brass has corrected those faults. Those arguments of 2015 - 2018 are irrelevant right now because the Packers 2009 - 2014 were great and CURRENTLY, the Packers 2019 - 2021 are also setup to be great.

of course you don't want to talk about the 015 to 018 McCarthy years, those are the years when the riff started, or that McCarthy called plays in the Seahawks game are what lost it, or the 3 stooges Guty brought in as soon as he became GM, or the lack of balls demonstrated when the FO gave McCarthy that lame duck season.

I expect eventually we'll find out that Rodgers wanted the FO to hire a new coach prior to that season, and also that Guty chastised him for not doing all he could to save McCarthy's job, and again when Rodgers complained about the Lafluer hiring without even a heads up phone call, and we'll come to realize that the LOve pick was just the last straw.

I can get on board with Love, but it's a situation that didn't need to happen, I hold both sides to blame, however as I said the FO more, common courtesy would have been to consider Rodgers feelings with some of these decisions, imo specially with the McCarthy stuff, the guy had said for 2 years we needed to make changes, they brushed him off and he's resented it ever since.

If this is primarily rooted about a guy who was fired 2.5 years ago and Rodgers is mad he wasn't fired immediately when Gute was promoted to GM when everything since this period has been corrected and the team is pointing up....

then my opinion of Aaron Rodgers is even lower.

Like your argument makes Rodgers sound like an even worse person.

If AR's master plan is to get traded and gather a dream team around him for a couple of SB runs, that actually would make sense (for him, not GB) from a cap standpoint. He may not have friends like Brady, but mercenaries will be your friends for money.

If the Packers trade AR this off-season, GB eats $38,356,000 of the cap hit from AR's contract (if post-June 1st, that hit is just spread over 2 seasons).

All that would remain for the new team to handle are the remaining base salaries (14.7M, 25M, 25M) and a 500k annual workout bonus. Zero guaranteed.

The new team could then negotiate an extension or restructuring of those remaining years. Even just a restructure could result in a cap charge of only about 6M in 2021 (30M for the other 2 years). An extension could add more guarantees and have very, very small year 1 and 2 cap hits. All this made possible because the Packers would eat almost 40M in cap hit for money that has already been paid to AR.

So, if we do end up trading AR, we really, really, REALLY should not only get compensated for the player, but also for the ideal contract he'd ship with.

.
From Bill Barnwell:

"There's no way Aaron Rodgers should be allowed to fire Brian Gutekunst. That's too much power.
Aaron Rodgers should be allowed to nominate a younger, more athletic replacement for Gutekunst who can take over in a couple of years to keep the Packers operating at a high level."

BSA wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 10:38

.
From Bill Barnwell:

"There's no way Aaron Rodgers should be allowed to fire Brian Gutekunst. That's too much power.
Aaron Rodgers should be allowed to nominate a younger, more athletic replacement for Gutekunst who can take over in a couple of years to keep the Packers operating at a high level."

salmar80 wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 10:33

If AR's master plan is to get traded and gather a dream team around him for a couple of SB runs, that actually would make sense (for him, not GB) from a cap standpoint. He may not have friends like Brady, but mercenaries will be your friends for money.

If the Packers trade AR this off-season, GB eats $38,356,000 of the cap hit from AR's contract (if post-June 1st, that hit is just spread over 2 seasons).

All that would remain for the new team to handle are the remaining base salaries (14.7M, 25M, 25M) and a 500k annual workout bonus. Zero guaranteed.

The new team could then negotiate an extension or restructuring of those remaining years. Even just a restructure could result in a cap charge of only about 6M in 2021 (30M for the other 2 years). An extension could add more guarantees and have very, very small year 1 and 2 cap hits. All this made possible because the Packers would eat almost 40M in cap hit for money that has already been paid to AR.

So, if we do end up trading AR, we really, really, REALLY should not only get compensated for the player, but also for the ideal contract he'd ship with.

Yeah. I've been hearing trade compensation, if say it were Denver, would be Surtain, Juedy, PLUS 3 future 1st round picks.

At some point the trading team also needs to figure out if it is worth it for them. For instance, what is the point of having Rodgers on a super friendly team contract for 2021 and 2022 if there is all this cap space but nobody available to sign until the 2022 offeason?

I agree that Rodgers going to another team could allow the other team to go "All In" for 2 - 3 years and pay for it by sucking from 2024 - 2026, but at some point it anything regarding Rodgers likely won't mean championship for 2021 because it's getting to be too late on all sides.

So if Rodgers decides to no play this year, what are the cap implications? Do we just save on his Annual Base and Roster bonus?

Is my thinking correct that we would save $14.7 in Base and $6.8 in Roster? And if he also doesn't play we still pay his proration of earlier bonuses against the cap but get to keep his rights until 2024.

go pak go wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 10:29

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 10:22

go pak go wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 09:56

Also, MM sucking was the 2015 - 2018 era which I pointed out. MM was pretty damned good though in the 2009 - 2014 era. Same with the WR decline. Let's not be having conversations where they don't belong. I am not going to argue the Packers organization fell apart from 2015 - 2018. But guess what. The current Packers brass has corrected those faults. Those arguments of 2015 - 2018 are irrelevant right now because the Packers 2009 - 2014 were great and CURRENTLY, the Packers 2019 - 2021 are also setup to be great.

of course you don't want to talk about the 015 to 018 McCarthy years, those are the years when the riff started, or that McCarthy called plays in the Seahawks game are what lost it, or the 3 stooges Guty brought in as soon as he became GM, or the lack of balls demonstrated when the FO gave McCarthy that lame duck season.

I expect eventually we'll find out that Rodgers wanted the FO to hire a new coach prior to that season, and also that Guty chastised him for not doing all he could to save McCarthy's job, and again when Rodgers complained about the Lafluer hiring without even a heads up phone call, and we'll come to realize that the LOve pick was just the last straw.

I can get on board with Love, but it's a situation that didn't need to happen, I hold both sides to blame, however as I said the FO more, common courtesy would have been to consider Rodgers feelings with some of these decisions, imo specially with the McCarthy stuff, the guy had said for 2 years we needed to make changes, they brushed him off and he's resented it ever since.

If this is primarily rooted about a guy who was fired 2.5 years ago and Rodgers is mad he wasn't fired immediately when Gute was promoted to GM when everything since this period has been corrected and the team is pointing up....

then my opinion of Aaron Rodgers is even lower.

Like your argument makes Rodgers sound like an even worse person.

are you purposely acting naive? if Guty and Murphy snubbed him then, it probably was brought back to the surface with the Love pick, duhhhhhh, use some common sense.

I hope I'am around when we finally get the skinny about all of this, and you can be sure we will, Mark Tausher has already said Guty handled this poorly, I expect more players and football people will agree, and your track record speaks for itself concerning your feelings about Rodgers.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 10:04

I would say both Wilson and Rodgers were impacted by watching TB12 roll down to TB, gain complete control, bring his buddies to town, and win a ring.

They all want to call their own shots now and do it that way.

Unlike what they may think tho, they just aren’t TB12. People arent signing for less to go play with Arod. Most people think he is a d***. And you can be a d*** if you have multiple rings. Arod doesn’t.

Wow, that might be the most spot on comment on this board.

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 10:55

go pak go wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 10:29

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 10:22

of course you don't want to talk about the 015 to 018 McCarthy years, those are the years when the riff started, or that McCarthy called plays in the Seahawks game are what lost it, or the 3 stooges Guty brought in as soon as he became GM, or the lack of balls demonstrated when the FO gave McCarthy that lame duck season.

I expect eventually we'll find out that Rodgers wanted the FO to hire a new coach prior to that season, and also that Guty chastised him for not doing all he could to save McCarthy's job, and again when Rodgers complained about the Lafluer hiring without even a heads up phone call, and we'll come to realize that the LOve pick was just the last straw.

I can get on board with Love, but it's a situation that didn't need to happen, I hold both sides to blame, however as I said the FO more, common courtesy would have been to consider Rodgers feelings with some of these decisions, imo specially with the McCarthy stuff, the guy had said for 2 years we needed to make changes, they brushed him off and he's resented it ever since.

If this is primarily rooted about a guy who was fired 2.5 years ago and Rodgers is mad he wasn't fired immediately when Gute was promoted to GM when everything since this period has been corrected and the team is pointing up....

then my opinion of Aaron Rodgers is even lower.

Like your argument makes Rodgers sound like an even worse person.

are you purposely acting naive? if Guty and Murphy snubbed him then, it probably was brought back to the surface with the Love pick, duhhhhhh, use some common sense.

Yup. And none of that matters for the 2021 season.

So you go from "favorite locker room and roster and coaching system of my career in 2019 and 2020" to "I don't want to play for the Green Bay Packers" 3 months later.

go pak go wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 11:23

Yoop wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 10:55

go pak go wrote: ↑

02 May 2021 10:29

If this is primarily rooted about a guy who was fired 2.5 years ago and Rodgers is mad he wasn't fired immediately when Gute was promoted to GM when everything since this period has been corrected and the team is pointing up....

then my opinion of Aaron Rodgers is even lower.

Like your argument makes Rodgers sound like an even worse person.

are you purposely acting naive? if Guty and Murphy snubbed him then, it probably was brought back to the surface with the Love pick, duhhhhhh, use some common sense.

Yup. And none of that matters for the 2021 season.

well if true it explains why Rodgers feels snubbed, so of course it has to do with this coming season, look if you care about winning in this coming season, you should hope like hell that Guty and Rodgers can patch this up.

I think it's possible they can, and I will until more reliable info comes forth,