Bears at Packers GDT: Sunday Dec 12th, 7:20pm CST

[YoHoChecko]

and while I've talked a lot about what not to do, those saying "bring in Tyler Ervin" have a perfectly good point. He's familiar, cheap, and available. There's also a FA who was on the WFT last year as a 1st year player named Isaiah Wright who has some return experience in college and a little in the pros, and fits a lot of what we do (versatile, thick, athletic) and in light of EQ's concussion and Malik Taylor apparently getting injured on top of Cobb, we might need to add to the roster, anyway.

If MLF wants to say "hey, it's your show to run, but I'm going to mandate that we do these 2 things differently from now on" about an aspect or two of STs, certainly.

I just think that a smattering of small things with overall continuity is better for the team at this juncture than doing symbolic big things.

[Pckfn23]

Hiring a buddy is not a firable offense unless you refuse to cut bait with that buddy and let him sink your ship. That has happened many times. People hire their pals all the time for all kinds of jobs. They think they will work well with them and their affection toward the person creates a bias when hiring.

However, there is little to no evidence that this is what did and is happening with LaFleur and Drayton. Drayton is a McCarthy holdover and Lafleur and he never crossed paths before LaFleur was hired as head coach. Could they have become best pals in 2019 and 2020? Sure, anything is possible. This seems to be a manufactured scandal though as we don't have any evidence the Drayton was hired because they are friends and that he is not being fired because they are friends.

[APB]

wrong, we ranked 29th in the league for 2020, and this year we rank 22nd, I doubt we fire Drayton at all, we are better in every category over a season ago.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings/special-teams

Curious where you got the 29th ranking for last year from? If I'm reading your linked site right, the Packers finished 22nd overall which matches our current ranking based upon whatever statistical weighting algorithm that site uses. I'd be interested to see that information, as well. I certainly hold turnovers, missed FGs, and big opponent returns as more impactful in tight game situations than simple fair catch plays in blowouts.

Side note: league ranking is one thing, raw data is a completely different measure. We won't be able to compare those datasets, though, until the year is complete. It is entirely possible this year's ST is performing considerably worse than last year while the team's league ranking remains relatively unchanged.

[Yoop]

wrong, we ranked 29th in the league for 2020, and this year we rank 22nd, I doubt we fire Drayton at all, we are better in every category over a season ago.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings/special-teams

Curious where you got the 29th ranking for last year from? If I'm reading your linked site right, the Packers finished 22nd overall which matches our current ranking based upon whatever statistical weighting algorithm that site uses. I'd be interested to see that information, as well. I certainly hold turnovers, missed FGs, and big opponent returns as more impactful in tight game situations than simple fair catch plays in blowouts.

Side note: league ranking is one thing, raw data is a completely different measure. We won't be able to compare those datasets, though, until the year is complete. It is entirely possible this year's ST is performing considerably worse than last year while the team's league ranking remains relatively unchanged.

your bound and determined to bruise my mellow If I had my way there would be no kickoffs or punts, just field goals, thats it, the rest is to dangerous, this isn't my Daddy's NFL

anyway heres what Gosselin had to say.

There’s no denying the history. In Gosselin’s rankings, the Packers have finished last in the NFL four times since 1992 — in 2005 (under John Bonamego), 2006 (under Mike Stock), 2014 (under Shawn Slocum) and 2018 (under Zook). In Mennenga’s two years as coordinator, the Packers finished 26th in 2019 and 29th last year, leading to his firing.

https://madison.com/wsj/sports/football ... ade7d.html

I think the biggest thing to spoil our ranking this season are the missed FG's and poor returns, as 23 has shown, of about 68 punts and kicks only about 14 have been returned past the 25 yrd line, imo that seems OK considering most of those barely went past the 30, what has people upset is that most of our own returns barely make the 25 and some of them have been near disastrous, so imo our returns and FG issues are what need the most attention

[JKB]

Hiring a buddy is not a firable offense unless you refuse to cut bait with that buddy and let him sink your ship. That has happened many times. People hire their pals all the time for all kinds of jobs. They think they will work well with them and their affection toward the person creates a bias when hiring.

However, there is little to no evidence that this is what did and is happening with LaFleur and Drayton. Drayton is a McCarthy holdover and Lafleur and he never crossed paths before LaFleur was hired as head coach. Could they have become best pals in 2019 and 2020? Sure, anything is possible. This seems to be a manufactured scandal though as we don't have any evidence the Drayton was hired because they are friends and that he is not being fired because they are friends.

Whaaat? Untrue made up synopsis on social media?
I’m shocked!
No merit whatsoever, just horrendous ST and the fallout….

[Labrev]

I don't know about MLF and Mo being "pals" but I do recall that MLF spoke very highly of Mo in his presser shortly after hiring him and Barry, and that MLF said (iirc) Mo was in the mix last time when they hired Mennenga and that he believes Mo has a real future in this league.

It was a level of praise above mere coachspeak. I kinda doubt MLF will let him go after this season, he seems to think injuries are the culprit for the ST play more than the coaching.

I'll admit we are probably seeing the effects of no Ramsey, Redmond, et. al. rearing its ugly head. That said, I am also seeing miscues that indicate coaching malpractice.

*edit*
I mean, Crosby had been great for us for a while, and now he has the yips. Bojorquez came in looking good and his play has been going downhill. I have to chalk up these issues to the coach.

[NCF]

For those that can remember back, Jakeem Grant's name was fairly connected to Green Bay prior to his trade to Chicago. Looking back, now, that would have probably been a huge get for us.

[APB]

wrong, we ranked 29th in the league for 2020, and this year we rank 22nd, I doubt we fire Drayton at all, we are better in every category over a season ago.

https://www.lineups.com/nfl-team-rankings/special-teams

Curious where you got the 29th ranking for last year from? If I'm reading your linked site right, the Packers finished 22nd overall which matches our current ranking based upon whatever statistical weighting algorithm that site uses. I'd be interested to see that information, as well. I certainly hold turnovers, missed FGs, and big opponent returns as more impactful in tight game situations than simple fair catch plays in blowouts.

Side note: league ranking is one thing, raw data is a completely different measure. We won't be able to compare those datasets, though, until the year is complete. It is entirely possible this year's ST is performing considerably worse than last year while the team's league ranking remains relatively unchanged.

your bound and determined to bruise my mellow If I had my way there would be no kickoffs or punts, just field goals, thats it, the rest is to dangerous, this isn't my Daddy's NFL

anyway heres what Gosselin had to say.

There’s no denying the history. In Gosselin’s rankings, the Packers have finished last in the NFL four times since 1992 — in 2005 (under John Bonamego), 2006 (under Mike Stock), 2014 (under Shawn Slocum) and 2018 (under Zook). In Mennenga’s two years as coordinator, the Packers finished 26th in 2019 and 29th last year, leading to his firing.

https://madison.com/wsj/sports/football ... ade7d.html

I think the biggest thing to spoil our ranking this season are the missed FG's and poor returns, as 23 has shown, of about 68 punts and kicks only about 14 have been returned past the 25 yrd line, imo that seems OK considering most of those barely went past the 30, what has people upset is that most of our own returns barely make the 25 and some of them have been near disastrous, so imo our returns and FG issues are what need the most attention

Ok I see. You've attributed two annual rankings based on two independent and separate evaluations.

It's probably best, from a consistency standpoint, to present annual ranking comparisons using a) just raw data or b) the same evaluation process.

I'll bet Gosselin's annual ST ranking for the Packers at the end of this year is very similar - or worse - than last years evaluation. But I guess we'll see.

[BF004]

I went to find data that would show Opponents rarely get past the 25 on returns, no luck, so I have to go by memory, obviously these long returns stand out, but imho they are the exception.

I also think Crosby has lost some leg power, with little wind issues he can boot it deep, against a breeze, not so much, in that regard it seems we opt for hang time and coverage, again going from memory I think we've had quite a few stops short of the 25, most though are probably stopped prior to the 30.

If it exists, I bet @Pckfn23 can find that breakdown.

Brandon - is there data that shows Packers opponent average starting field position following a returned kickoff? To that point, what is the ST unit's standing in in the league on that measure?

yes please, I'am terrible at researching for some of this data.

https://bf004.shinyapps.io/Kickoff2/


2nd worst in the league.

image.png (72.55 KiB) Viewed 270 times

[Yoop]

If it exists, I bet @Pckfn23 can find that breakdown.

Brandon - is there data that shows Packers opponent average starting field position following a returned kickoff? To that point, what is the ST unit's standing in in the league on that measure?

yes please, I'am terrible at researching for some of this data.

https://bf004.shinyapps.io/Kickoff2/


2nd worst in the league.

image.png

when I click the link we are 9th from the bottom, we've improved 8 spots with the press of my finger they must have up dated?

[BF004]

yes please, I'am terrible at researching for some of this data.

https://bf004.shinyapps.io/Kickoff2/


2nd worst in the league.

image.png

when I click the link we are 9th from the bottom, we've improved 8 spots with the press of my finger they must have up dated?

I built it for now to default to including all years from 2018+, the year they moved the touchback to the 25. Helps with the distribution graph. But it's interactive.

Packers are 2nd worst in 2021.