From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
IT's not a Pettine thing to allow run yrds, or Barry, or Capers, or even Shummer, it's a passing league, hardly anyone beats another team solely on there ability to run the ball, it simply makes it harder to know how to defend them.
You always take things to extremes. Nobody has claimed that teams win "solely" on the run, just that if you run with success, it makes life so easy for the opposing offense that they don't need to pass much and even bad QBs/coaches (e.g. Desmond Ridder, Josh McDaniels, Tommy Devito, Matt Canada and Kenny Pickett) can beat you.
That it's a "passing league" is just more reason why they need to start up front and stop the run. If being poor against the run allows bad QBs to beat you, then obviously it is not going to be effective against top-tier passing offenses/QBs, either.
Which is why even when we are faced with offenses that abandon the run entirely, we still don't make stops!!
just saying why our DC don't focus on stopping the run, then we have the potent offense affect since Rodgers started, most team can't afford to run against us, there usually trying to catch up, and to do that usually requires passing.
also the vulnerability of a miscue during long drives, so when ya have a lead giving up a few run yards, (even a lot of run yrds) works against our opponent more then it affects us unless it's successful
I want to stop the run as much as anyone, my point is that it's not the most important thing we have to do.
I don't think it's that we hire offensive minded HC's as much as it's the HC's making poor DC hires.
Last edited by Yoop on 12 Dec 2023 12:08, edited 1 time in total.
Play 1 - Cover 3 or 6
Play 2 - Quarters
Play 3 - Cover 3
Play 4 - Man under cover 2
In field goal range
Play 5 - Soft man under cover 1
Play 6 - Cover 0
Play 7 - Cover 0
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Was gunna say, we haven’t played many quality offenses this year, guessing our DVOA was way worse than our aggregate ranks.
We have not played any of the top 5 scoring offenses (Miami, SF, Dallas, Baltimore, Buffalo) this season.
We have played just 3 (Detroit, Rams, KC) of the top 13 scoring offenses (Philly, Jax, Houston Indy, Cleveland).
The Packers will likely never have a better opportunity to finish in the top 10 in scoring defense based on the level of their competition than in 2023 and yet here we are.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
IT's not a Pettine thing to allow run yrds, or Barry, or Capers, or even Shummer, it's a passing league, hardly anyone beats another team solely on there ability to run the ball, it simply makes it harder to know how to defend them.
You always take things to extremes. Nobody has claimed that teams win "solely" on the run, just that if you run with success, it makes life so easy for the opposing offense that they don't need to pass much and even bad QBs/coaches (e.g. Desmond Ridder, Josh McDaniels, Tommy Devito, Matt Canada and Kenny Pickett) can beat you.
That it's a "passing league" is just more reason why they need to start up front and stop the run. If being poor against the run allows bad QBs to beat you, then obviously it is not going to be effective against top-tier passing offenses/QBs, either.
Which is why even when we are faced with offenses that abandon the run entirely, we still don't make stops!!
just saying why our DC don't focus on stopping the run, then we have the potent offense affect since Rodgers started, most team can't afford to run against us, there usually trying to catch up, and to do that usually requires passing.
also the vulnerability of a miscue during long drives, so when ya have a lead giving up a few run yards, (even a lot of run yrds) works against our opponent more then it affects us unless it's successful
I want to stop the run as much as anyone, my point is that it's not the most important thing we have to do.
I don't think it's that we hire offensive minded HC's as much as it's the HC's making poor DC hires.
.... it's like talking to a brick wall.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
Was gunna say, we haven’t played many quality offenses this year, guessing our DVOA was way worse than our aggregate ranks.
We have not played any of the top 5 scoring offenses (Miami, SF, Dallas, Baltimore, Buffalo) this season.
We have played just 3 (Detroit, Rams, KC) of the top 13 scoring offenses (Philly, Jax, Houston Indy, Cleveland).
The Packers will likely never have a better opportunity to finish in the top 10 in scoring defense based on the level of their competition than in 2023 and yet here we are.
The Fire Barry brigade was quiet in the 3 straight wins mainly because the offense played well. IMO this situation is a MLF problem. And if he keeps Barry after this season perhaps it is time to put Matt on the hot seat. There in no excuse for the talent we have on D to allow that lousy offensive team from NJ look like world beaters.
You always take things to extremes. Nobody has claimed that teams win "solely" on the run, just that if you run with success, it makes life so easy for the opposing offense that they don't need to pass much and even bad QBs/coaches (e.g. Desmond Ridder, Josh McDaniels, Tommy Devito, Matt Canada and Kenny Pickett) can beat you.
That it's a "passing league" is just more reason why they need to start up front and stop the run. If being poor against the run allows bad QBs to beat you, then obviously it is not going to be effective against top-tier passing offenses/QBs, either.
Which is why even when we are faced with offenses that abandon the run entirely, we still don't make stops!!
just saying why our DC don't focus on stopping the run, then we have the potent offense affect since Rodgers started, most team can't afford to run against us, there usually trying to catch up, and to do that usually requires passing.
also the vulnerability of a miscue during long drives, so when ya have a lead giving up a few run yards, (even a lot of run yrds) works against our opponent more then it affects us unless it's successful
I want to stop the run as much as anyone, my point is that it's not the most important thing we have to do.
I don't think it's that we hire offensive minded HC's as much as it's the HC's making poor DC hires.
just saying why our DC don't focus on stopping the run, then we have the potent offense affect since Rodgers started, most team can't afford to run against us, there usually trying to catch up, and to do that usually requires passing.
also the vulnerability of a miscue during long drives, so when ya have a lead giving up a few run yards, (even a lot of run yrds) works against our opponent more then it affects us unless it's successful
I want to stop the run as much as anyone, my point is that it's not the most important thing we have to do.
I don't think it's that we hire offensive minded HC's as much as it's the HC's making poor DC hires.
.... it's like talking to a brick wall.
now ya know how I feel
Except I have a point.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
what that we need to run more when it isn't producing, or that we need to focus more stopping the run and allow opposing offenses to big chunk play on us more then they already are?
we miss Jones, even though the run blocking sucks Jones finds the creases, Dillon does well when he can build up a head of steam, when the blocking can't give him space to do that, then the run doesn't produce enough to move the chains, it's not hard to figure this out, yet you and other just complain as though the blocking is fine, Dillon is fine, and Taylor showed last night again why he's a practice squad player, If I was Lafleur he'd already be on a bus out of town.
it was a let down with every phase of the team last night, O, D, ST's, and coaching.
If anyone on this board had predicted that Tommy DeVito would be named NFC Offensive player of the week prior to Monday night's contest, they would have rightly been mocked mercilessly.
I said earlier, if Barry can't make the defense with all this talent/investment well above average, like many D-Coord are able to do with fewer great players, then we need not see how he would fare with less talent once our QB gets paid like a good starter. It is just common sense: fewer resources to get good defenders, worse defensive unit. If it's just middling/below-average now, it will be below-average/bottom-feeders then.
And in Barry's case, we have history to show that when he has a mediocre cast, the defense is abysmal, and a big part of the reason DET and WAS were bad teams when he was their D-Coord.
Similarly, if Barry's D allows Tommy Devito to mount a come-from-behind win, we need not wait and see what happens in the playoffs against quality passing offenses or QBs. It's common sense: we will lose, just as we lost to inferior QBs like Devito, Pickett, Ridder, etc.
We only got that Q4 lead thanks to a super fluky fumble by Saquon (after he broke off a huge gain in the run that would have likely made NY's lead all but insurmountable at that point). The ground caused the fumble, mark you, not the skill of one of our defenders to force one.
By the sounds of it, we need not even fire the guy, just let him contract expire. Do so, and go get your Jim Leonhard or whoever. Cmon Matty, you can do it!! We believe in you (not really)!!!
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
Barry has failed to make good QB's bad, failed to make bad QB's worse, and turns average RB's into pro bowlers, and good RB's into HOF candidates, Barry has been a complete failure as a DC, we throw quality talent to him, and it takes him years if ever to coach them up, for about 3 weeks we saw him denote more players to improve the pass rush, hence helping all the rookies and youth in the secondary, once that failed to produce those intended results his secondary was exposed again, doesn't matter who we play, Barry will figure out how to lose
I expect the youth in the secondary will be the excuse to give him a new contract, insanity prevails
Bryan Bulaga critical of Barry's last drive on Wilde and Tausch today.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
You've all been exposed. We were playing off the ball so much on that last drive to set up a missed field goal. Where things went wrong is that the Giants inadvertently made the field goal.
With the coaching change in Carolina it could make Evero available for MLF to hire. They worked together in LA I think. I'd be open to that!
I feel like Evero will have his sights set on a HC gig before D-Coord for a team that turned him down for Joe frickin Barry.
MLF can try for Leonhard again, I guess. 'Gotta think NFL D-Coord beats being an analyst at Illinois. I'm not as in love with this idea as some, but I like it a lot more than Brandon Staley, who I bet will both be available and would get a lot of interest from MLF.
Jets probably excuse Saleh for this year due to the Rodgers injury and give him another year, but man, imagine that.
If Belichick is out in NE, maybe a D-Coord gig would appeal to him?
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
