Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts

[Pckfn23]

It's cover 3. Jaire has to react to the corner from there slot first and foremost. Not a poor play by Jaire. Good play against our coverage. Amos takes a bad angle. Needs to attack the inside hip, but instead attacks the outside hip to force it inside. His help though is over the top and outside.

[Foosball]

Jaire was good. Just a bad call by the DC.

[LombardiTime]

would be fun to see play counts

GB has been pretty consistent with about 61-62 offensive plays/game across 2020, 2021 and 2022 and their league ranking is in the 20's
I think NOT getting a lead in the 1st half is a bigger issue with regards to supporting the defense.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/p ... 2021-02-08

The offense also used to do a better job of doubling up...scoring at the end of 1st half and then again coming out in 3rd quarter. That doesn't appear to be happening as often in 2022. Don't have stats for that one, so I'm just going off my flawed memory.

One more item of note: Capers used to look at the difference in passer rating between GB and their opponents. When Rodgers was playing well, GB always had the advantage in passer rating. In 2022, Rodgers' passer rating has dropped, while our opponents' has risen to the point where they're really close now. In 2022, the Packers do not have the advantage in passer rating and that's another component where the poor offense negatively impacts the defense.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/a ... 2022-12-04
.

I do not doubt that the Packer offense playing less well than it has in the past has contributed to the poor play of the defense in 2022. The reverse complementary football if you will.

That said, the Packer defense was not very good all those years when the offense was, as referenced above, (1) getting leads in the 1st half, (2) Rodgers was playing well, including winning 4 MVPs, and the Packers had an advantage over their opponents in passer rating, and (3) doubling up and scoring at the end of the first and the beginning of the second halves.

In other words, good offensive football in Green Bay did not correspondingly lead to good defensive football.

It is also not impossible for a team to have a top 10 defense even when the offense is not very good.

This year for example, Denver has one of the worst offenses in the NFL, but the defense is giving up the fourth fewest points per game. The Denver defense is good, while the Denver offense stinks.

In Green Bay, the defense has not been very good, and has often stunk, even when the offense has been quite good.

The 2022 season has made one thing absolutely clear, irrespective of whether the Packer offense plays well or poorly, it is long past time for a complete transformation of how the Green Bay Packers play defensive football.

[Yoop]

would be fun to see play counts

GB has been pretty consistent with about 61-62 offensive plays/game across 2020, 2021 and 2022 and their league ranking is in the 20's
I think NOT getting a lead in the 1st half is a bigger issue with regards to supporting the defense.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/p ... 2021-02-08

The offense also used to do a better job of doubling up...scoring at the end of 1st half and then again coming out in 3rd quarter. That doesn't appear to be happening as often in 2022. Don't have stats for that one, so I'm just going off my flawed memory.

One more item of note: Capers used to look at the difference in passer rating between GB and their opponents. When Rodgers was playing well, GB always had the advantage in passer rating. In 2022, Rodgers' passer rating has dropped, while our opponents' has risen to the point where they're really close now. In 2022, the Packers do not have the advantage in passer rating and that's another component where the poor offense negatively impacts the defense.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/a ... 2022-12-04
.

I do not doubt that the Packer offense playing less well than it has in the past has contributed to the poor play of the defense in 2022. The reverse complementary football if you will.

That said, the Packer defense was not very good all those years when the offense was, as referenced above, (1) getting leads in the 1st half, (2) Rodgers was playing well, including winning 4 MVPs, and the Packers had an advantage over their opponents in passer rating, and (3) doubling up and scoring at the end of the first and the beginning of the second halves.

In other words, good offensive football in Green Bay did not correspondingly lead to good defensive football.

It is also not impossible for a team to have a top 10 defense even when the offense is not very good.

This year for example, Denver has one of the worst offenses in the NFL, but the defense is giving up the fourth fewest points per game. The Denver defense is good, while the Denver offense stinks.

In Green Bay, the defense has not been very good, and has often stunk, even when the offense has been quite good.

The 2022 season has made one thing absolutely clear, irrespective of whether the Packer offense plays well or poorly, it is long past time for a complete transformation of how the Green Bay Packers play defensive football.

I tend to agree, our offense has carried this defense for years, and mostly I blame it on lack of personal, why people continue to think a DC should be able to scheme around weak positions is mind boggling since we continuously see opposing offenses target those weak position in every football game we watch, week in and week out, this year we are feeling the Loss of Campbell, Gary and even Stokes 2021 performance big time, yes the backups have played well at times, but we still miss the starters consistency.

sure it helps the defense to be more rested when the offense puts together long time consuming drives, but what would really help is having better pass rush, coverage, and tackling.

[LombardiTime]

Burn everything down on defense.

All of it.

Scheme, coaches, personnel/players are all bad and it ain't getting any better unless it gets blown up from top to bottom.

[Realist]

Burn everything down on defense.

All of it.

Scheme, coaches, personnel/players are all bad and it ain't getting any better unless it gets blown up from top to bottom.

You must not be familiar with the salary cap. The good news for u though is that most people here think its all a scheme issue. Keep the faith.

[Scott4Pack]

Sloppy play today, but only 19 points to da Bears. I’ll grumble about that some because there were just too many big plays. Without those, we win that game going away. But I’ll save further complaints until next week.

:-)

[Yoop]

Burn everything down on defense.

All of it.

Scheme, coaches, personnel/players are all bad and it ain't getting any better unless it gets blown up from top to bottom.

You must not be familiar with the salary cap. The good news for u though is that most people here think its all a scheme issue. Keep the faith.

what do you think it is? obviously it isn't just coaching, or just players, but our corners played better last year, we where better stopping the run, Barry's defense has declined more in year 2 then Pettines did, and it looks like the players are quitting on him now to, our CB's are capable of much more then guarding real estate.

Hell anyone that watches us play agrees Barry's schemes suck, your in the minority, course I suppose thats familiar territory for you.

[Scott4Pack]

Burn everything down on defense.

All of it.

Scheme, coaches, personnel/players are all bad and it ain't getting any better unless it gets blown up from top to bottom.

You must not be familiar with the salary cap. The good news for u though is that most people here think its all a scheme issue. Keep the faith.

what do you think it is? obviously it isn't just coaching, or just players, but our corners played better last year, we where better stopping the run, Barry's defense has declined more in year 2 then Pettines did, and it looks like the players are quitting on him now to, our CB's are capable of much more then guarding real estate.

Hell anyone that watches us play agrees Barry's schemes suck, your in the minority, course I suppose thats familiar territory for you.

The main point, I think, is that the ENTIRE defense is below par this year. It seems like almost all of them and the collective for sure are doing less than last year.

[Drj820]

I think when you basically run things back twice with the same group that couldn’t get it done before (minus some talent), by the 3rd time a lot of guys have just lost their steam. It’s the same ole same ole. This is an entitled group that hasn’t actually won anything. They feel proud that they beat the lions and bears for the division crown. The qb isn’t hungry because he can tell you he won the mvp. This is just a group of family men. Kind hearted losers.

[BSA]

The main point, I think, is that the ENTIRE defense is below par this year. It seems like almost all of them and the collective for sure are doing less than last year.

It hasn't been pretty to watch, that's fer sure. But the points given up has stayed relatively consistent over the last 3 seasons
GB defense gave up:

2020 23.2/game
2021 21.3/ game
2022 23.2 / game

Packers need to be at 20pts/game or below for the Defense to make a difference in winning/losing. The 2022 defense has delivered only 4 games with 20 pts or less. 2021 had 7 games sub-20 and 2020 had 8 of them. Packers defense also delivered sub-20 pts playoff games in 2020 and 2021.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... b/2020.htm
.

[BF004]

The main point, I think, is that the ENTIRE defense is below par this year. It seems like almost all of them and the collective for sure are doing less than last year.

It hasn't been pretty to watch, that's fer sure. But the points given up has stayed relatively consistent over the last 3 seasons
GB defense gave up:

2020 23.2/game
2021 21.3/ game
2022 23.2 / game

League wide points per game:
2020 24.8 /game
2021 23.0 / game
2022 21.9 / game

Packers compared to league average:
2020: -1.6 PPG
2021: -1.7 PPG
2022: +1.3 PPG

I think boy Scotty has a point here.

[Drj820]

I think this personnel is not used to playing defense with a struggling offense. They are used to the offense getting a lead and then being able to rely on pass rush and secondary.

Think about it, everytime they haven’t got to play with a lead they’ve gotten wrekt. This exact group minus quay. Think every playoff game ever that we’ve lost.

[go pak go]

Yeah I never thought of our defense as bottom barrel level. Our defense is absolutely an average defense. In fact I would say our defense has been above average every year since 2019.

But the talent and investment required this defense to be top 5. Not top 15. Our offense simply isn't good enough to overcome an average defense.

[Drj820]

I would say the investment calls for a better than average defense. Not sure about the talent. Packer GMs shirk responsibility for wasting resources on the defense year after year

[Yoop]

Yeah I never thought of our defense as bottom barrel level. Our defense is absolutely an average defense. In fact I would say our defense has been above average every year since 2019.

But the talent and investment required this defense to be top 5. Not top 15. Our offense simply isn't good enough to overcome an average defense.

we are trying hard to continue as the worst run stopping defense in the league, when teams have to play catch up they don't run, so the defense looks better, still the coverage schemes allow huge space, and even below average QB's and receivers gut us.

we have been investing most of our resources in defense forever, problem is injury takes away the starters and the backups aren't as good, or the players are misses and bust out, I think Barry's defense was finishing strong last year and that gave us hopes for a top 5 defense, specially adding Wyatt and Walker, however both those positions come with growing pains,, plus we lost a lot of pass rush with Gary, coverage with Stokes, and run stopping ability of Campbell.
again no DC can scheme around weak positions, for whatever reason some fans don't think that should matter, but OC get paid to figure out how to take advantage of that, and they do

I'd fire Barry tomorrow and hire Jim Leonard Friday morning, your right, even missing those studs this defense should be top 10 or so

[BSA]

from reddit

"According to Pro Football Reference’s Advanced Defense table through Week 17, Quay Walker is by far the best linebacker by completion percentage allowed (49%, or 17 of 35) this season, well ahead of Fred Warner with the Niners (60%, or 37 of 62).
And he’s 10th overall, even when you include defensive backs."

[Scott4Pack]

from reddit

"According to Pro Football Reference’s Advanced Defense table through Week 17, Quay Walker is by far the best linebacker by completion percentage allowed (49%, or 17 of 35) this season, well ahead of Fred Warner with the Niners (60%, or 37 of 62).
And he’s 10th overall, even when you include defensive backs."

Impressive for any rookie!

[TheSkeptic]

There are 2 things wrong with this D.

#1, The Packers lost Z. They chose to pay Rodgers and Bakh rather than Z.
#2, Gary got hurt.

Don't give me that BS about investment in the D. The investment has been in the O, not the D. And even so, if Gary were healthy this is a top 5 D. Unfortunately, the O is somewhere around 25. I don't care how good a D is, you can't win games with 17 points or less and where weak special teams give the opposing O good field position.

[lupedafiasco]

There are 2 things wrong with this D.

#1, The Packers lost Z. They chose to pay Rodgers and Bakh rather than Z.
#2, Gary got hurt.

Don't give me that BS about investment in the D. The investment has been in the O, not the D. And even so, if Gary were healthy this is a top 5 D. Unfortunately, the O is somewhere around 25. I don't care how good a D is, you can't win games with 17 points or less and where weak special teams give the opposing O good field position.

I 100% agree losing Zadarius changed this defense for the worse. The Packers completely mismanaged their best leader. He did change the defensive culture while here and got them to play with some fun and passion. LaFleur should have just stepped in and made him a captain. I don’t care what the players voted for but Zadarius was right to be upset over it IMO.

As for paying Rodgers and Bak I don’t know what anyone is complaining about. Rodgers was the back to back MVP. You resign that 100% of the time. Bakhtiari was the best LT at the time with no injury concerns. That was just unlucky. I like a good Gutenbumst bashing as much as anyone but those were the right moves.

The offense would be much better if we weren’t reliant on bad or inexperienced receivers. No fan should be surprised when prior to this draft we hadn’t successfully drafted a good WR or TE. The majority of Packers fans just can’t seem to be able to place the blame where it needs to be for poor roster construction.