Packers @ Saints GDT - 9/12/2021 3:25 CST

[go pak go]

Poor linebackers, poor lineman outside of Kenny.

The DL needs help. No doubt about it after Week 1. Sign a guy off the street. They can manage it and they need to. The LB's I will still give a little leash too. So hard to blame them with what is in front of them.

KJ Wright was available at LB for cheaper than Kevin King. Guys off the street have been getting scooped up for cheap one year deals throughout camp and there are still some available. It is just negligence at this point. I will never understand the belief in Lowry. No high quality DL would play a guy like Lowry 60% of the snaps. 15% as the starters needs a play or two off tops.

Yeah I am excited for the Deal Lowry era to end. I thought it should have been this year. And I hope TJ Slayton continues to push him out for playing time. I thought TJ held up well on Sunday.

[Drj820]

So as the Packers DC before he even coached a game it was the assumption that he sucked as the Packers DC. Odd.

If Rodgers had left and they signed Mitch Trubinksy to be the starter and he was awful week one, would you wait until the season was over to decide if he was awful or would his resume prior to coming to GB factor into your opinion of him?

Hopefully that will help you see my point.

[lupedafiasco]

Right now honestly I think the whole team besides Elgton Jenkins sucks.

Pretty much, yep.

I find it odd that one would form a strong opinion either way without much relevant information.

My opinion on Barry is based on his career resume, with the addition of one game as DC for the Packers. I, like everyone here I assume, hope he has success that forces me to change my opinion. That would be great!

Exactly. Capers and Pettine both had a strong history of being competent and at times great. Pettine wasnt even bad last season overall. Barry has no track record of success. Hes been nothing but horrible.

[lupedafiasco]

So as the Packers DC before he even coached a game it was the assumption that he sucked as the Packers DC. Odd.

If Rodgers had left and they signed Mitch Trubinksy to be the starter and he was awful week one, would you wait until the season was over to decide if he was awful or would his resume prior to coming to GB factor into your opinion of him?

Hopefully that will help you see my point.

Terrific analogy wasted on deaf ears.

[Pckfn23]

So as the Packers DC before he even coached a game it was the assumption that he sucked as the Packers DC. Odd.

If Rodgers had left and they signed Mitch Trubinksy to be the starter and he was awful week one, would you wait until the season was over to decide if he was awful or would his resume prior to coming to GB factor into your opinion of him?

Hopefully that will help you see my point.

You didn't say that though, you said you assumed Barry sucked as you were "always" happy to think that.

If Mitch Trubisky was signed as our starter I would reserve judgement of him as a Packers QB until I saw him play some games. I would not automatically assume he will suck as a Packers QB.

[Pckfn23]

So as the Packers DC before he even coached a game it was the assumption that he sucked as the Packers DC. Odd.

If Rodgers had left and they signed Mitch Trubinksy to be the starter and he was awful week one, would you wait until the season was over to decide if he was awful or would his resume prior to coming to GB factor into your opinion of him?

Hopefully that will help you see my point.

Terrific analogy wasted on deaf ears.

The pot calling the kettle black. Fortunately, I wait for evident to form my opinions. The first bit of evidence on Barry was not good, but I did not assume he sucked as a Packer DC before we played this first game.

[Labrev]

At this point, I want a move for Geno Atkins or a guy like that less because I expect them to be any good and more because it will mean less Lowry and Lancaster!!

[Yoop]

rarely ever did you see a receiver open on schedule

Not trying to start a fight, but why would you say this happened? You beat the drum all offseason that Rodgers and Cobb (slot receivers) were the solution to this problem that has existed since the LaFleur era began. Why didn't it work?

Maybe they still need some time to gel and I get everything looks bad when you have production like that, but to me Cobb and to the same extent Josiah Deguara, looked completely out of place in the offense. Like we just didn't know how to incorporate them.

I don't know how you can critic either player, imo they barely played enough to have a informed opinion either way, Deguara took himself out when leading with his head on a below the waste block, and MLF's pass schemes didn't help any receiver get open, thats why I said receivers didn't get open and Rodgers was holding the ball, we used almost zero motion, as Dougherty said we twice motioned a player, when last year we probably did it 20 times a game, imo this is one of the worst coached games I've seen in a few seasons.

[Scott4Pack]

Last I checked 38 to 3 is as lopsided as 38 to 3.

Nah, it depends. A 38-3 with no main injuries or lopsided play calls is different to some 38-3 where your hit with bad luck and calls. You know what I mean. But actually your comparison to the 2007 Giants gave me hope again. Unlike you I cannot enjoy the game without constantly looking at the big picture (SB odds).

I mean to be fair, if you want to look at this game, the Saints scored on a lucky 4th down inside the redzone. The Packers had two turnovers inside the 10. The Saints had a INT called back due to a terrible call.

So that 35 point win gets erased by 28 points pretty darned quick on 4 plays that just REALLY went the Saints way.

You've made a good point. The trouble is, it doesn't matter. As we saw, the Pack played pathetic. They showed like a Pop Warner team more than an NFL team. If they win every game this year by playing the same (they won't), I'd rather tune out than watch and celebrate a pathetic showing. They embarrassed themselves. It's time for them to grow up, put their adult cleats on, and kick some behind.

[Drj820]

So as the Packers DC before he even coached a game it was the assumption that he sucked as the Packers DC. Odd.

If Rodgers had left and they signed Mitch Trubinksy to be the starter and he was awful week one, would you wait until the season was over to decide if he was awful or would his resume prior to coming to GB factor into your opinion of him?

Hopefully that will help you see my point.

Terrific analogy wasted on deaf ears.

Yeah I was hoping it would get through but some people just like to argue over semantics. Oh well. I see no reason to wait to form any opinion on Joe Barry when he has been in the league for a long time. His resume helps me form an opinion, his future success or failure with the Packers will help me update my mental model of him. As it stands, he sucks.

[Yoop]

Stopping the run is more so a philosophy than a personnel issue. That said, Lowry needs to be off the field much more. Clark played 66%. Lowry played 61%. Keke played 50%. Lancaster played 46%. Slaton played 26%. The average defensive lineman on the field each snap was less than 2... For week 1, the blame should be squarely on Joe Barry for not stopping the run.

It's interesting that Capers and Pettine get a pass because of poor talent, but after just 1 game Joe Barry sucks, but apparently has that same poor talent...

well the talent is basically the same on the DL, Barry has better safety's, better CB's, and better pass rushers then the last year of Capers, and should have more experience then Pettines first season, you have to admit this defense looked poorly coached Sunday.

your right, defense is about a coaches philosophy, but it's beyond obvious that talent matters, and as to our DL, we have Clark, and a bunch of under performers, same at WR, we have Adams and all the rest, why anyone would down play mediocre talent, or think any coach should be able to over come jag play by saying it's all about philosophy negates the reason teams pay a guy like JT Watts, or Aaron Donald the big dollars, talent matters no matter the scheme a DC uses.

[go pak go]

Nah, it depends. A 38-3 with no main injuries or lopsided play calls is different to some 38-3 where your hit with bad luck and calls. You know what I mean. But actually your comparison to the 2007 Giants gave me hope again. Unlike you I cannot enjoy the game without constantly looking at the big picture (SB odds).

I mean to be fair, if you want to look at this game, the Saints scored on a lucky 4th down inside the redzone. The Packers had two turnovers inside the 10. The Saints had a INT called back due to a terrible call.

So that 35 point win gets erased by 28 points pretty darned quick on 4 plays that just REALLY went the Saints way.

You've made a good point. The trouble is, it doesn't matter. As we saw, the Pack played pathetic. They showed like a Pop Warner team more than an NFL team. If they win every game this year by playing the same (they won't), I'd rather tune out than watch and celebrate a pathetic showing. They embarrassed themselves. It's time for them to grow up, put their adult cleats on, and kick some behind.

Agreed. Honestly I was glad we got our ass kicked rather than have those 4 plays "go our way" and it end up being close. Because then things don't change as easy.

Losing 38 to 3 is a wake up call. They deserved to lose 38 to 3 and I am glad they lost 38 to 3. A problem with the Packers often is we have so many play-makers that can pull plays out of their butt to make games close or even pull off a win when it is not deserved.

[Pckfn23]

you have to admit this defense looked poorly coached Sunday.

I do and I have.

but it's beyond obvious that talent matters

Obviously. That talent did not matter, was not said.

[go pak go]

Stopping the run is more so a philosophy than a personnel issue. That said, Lowry needs to be off the field much more. Clark played 66%. Lowry played 61%. Keke played 50%. Lancaster played 46%. Slaton played 26%. The average defensive lineman on the field each snap was less than 2... For week 1, the blame should be squarely on Joe Barry for not stopping the run.

It's interesting that Capers and Pettine get a pass because of poor talent, but after just 1 game Joe Barry sucks, but apparently has that same poor talent...

well the talent is basically the same on the DL, Barry has better safety's, better CB's, and better pass rushers then the last year of Capers, and should have more experience then Pettines first season, you have to admit this defense looked poorly coached Sunday.

your right, defense is about a coaches philosophy, but it's beyond obvious that talent matters, and as to our DL, we have Clark, and a bunch of under performers, same at WR, we have Adams and all the rest, why anyone would down play mediocre talent, or think any coach should be able to over come jag play by saying it's all about philosophy negates the reason teams pay a guy like JT Watts, or Aaron Donald the big dollars, talent matters no matter the scheme a DC uses.

I agree with that. But the Packers pay the likes of big time guys too. In fact we have more "high paid guys and upper echelon talen" this year and last year compared to really any other team in the league. It's why our cap will literally be destroyed in 2022 and we will have to make cuts like the Saints did coming into this season.

For as much as we want to poop on the Packers weaknesses (DL and WR), we need to look at the opponent we played last Sunday and come to the conclusion that their DL and WR room was significantly worse from a talent standpoint compared to us. And they did just fine.

[Drj820]

Stopping the run is more so a philosophy than a personnel issue. That said, Lowry needs to be off the field much more. Clark played 66%. Lowry played 61%. Keke played 50%. Lancaster played 46%. Slaton played 26%. The average defensive lineman on the field each snap was less than 2... For week 1, the blame should be squarely on Joe Barry for not stopping the run.

It's interesting that Capers and Pettine get a pass because of poor talent, but after just 1 game Joe Barry sucks, but apparently has that same poor talent...

well the talent is basically the same on the DL, Barry has better safety's, better CB's, and better pass rushers then the last year of Capers, and should have more experience then Pettines first season, you have to admit this defense looked poorly coached Sunday.

your right, defense is about a coaches philosophy, but it's beyond obvious that talent matters, and as to our DL, we have Clark, and a bunch of under performers, same at WR, we have Adams and all the rest, why anyone would down play mediocre talent, or think any coach should be able to over come jag play by saying it's all about philosophy negates the reason teams pay a guy like JT Watts, or Aaron Donald the big dollars, talent matters no matter the scheme a DC uses.

I agree with that. But the Packers pay the likes of big time guys too. In fact we have more "high paid guys and upper echelon talen" this year and last year compared to really any other team in the league. It's why our cap will literally be destroyed in 2022 and we will have to make cuts like the Saints did coming into this season.

For as much as we want to poop on the Packers weaknesses (DL and WR), we need to look at the opponent we played last Sunday and come to the conclusion that their DL and WR room was significantly worse from a talent standpoint compared to us. And they did just fine.

I feel the great teams have the same or even less of the high end players we have, but they also dont have the low end players that we always put on the field for significant snaps. They seem to bring in aging vet on cheap deals who want a ring and use those guys to fill holes. We never seem to do that. They also seem to find a few guys no one has heard of and coach them up to competence. Sort of like Chandon Sullivan types, even tho he is looking like he gets exposed every time he takes the field these days.

My point is we absolutely have the high end talent needed, i believe most championship teams put more effort into feeling glaring holes tho and have less of them by the end of the year.

[Yoop]

Stopping the run is more so a philosophy than a personnel issue. That said, Lowry needs to be off the field much more. Clark played 66%. Lowry played 61%. Keke played 50%. Lancaster played 46%. Slaton played 26%. The average defensive lineman on the field each snap was less than 2... For week 1, the blame should be squarely on Joe Barry for not stopping the run.

It's interesting that Capers and Pettine get a pass because of poor talent, but after just 1 game Joe Barry sucks, but apparently has that same poor talent...

well the talent is basically the same on the DL, Barry has better safety's, better CB's, and better pass rushers then the last year of Capers, and should have more experience then Pettines first season, you have to admit this defense looked poorly coached Sunday.

your right, defense is about a coaches philosophy, but it's beyond obvious that talent matters, and as to our DL, we have Clark, and a bunch of under performers, same at WR, we have Adams and all the rest, why anyone would down play mediocre talent, or think any coach should be able to over come jag play by saying it's all about philosophy negates the reason teams pay a guy like JT Watts, or Aaron Donald the big dollars, talent matters no matter the scheme a DC uses.

I agree with that. But the Packers pay the likes of big time guys too. In fact we have more "high paid guys and upper echelon talen" this year and last year compared to really any other team in the league. It's why our cap will literally be destroyed in 2022 and we will have to make cuts like the Saints did coming into this season.

For as much as we want to poop on the Packers weaknesses (DL and WR), we need to look at the opponent we played last Sunday and come to the conclusion that their DL and WR room was significantly worse from a talent standpoint compared to us. And they did just fine.

I agree, it's my opinion that that we saw a lot of rust, the coaches new we lacked PS games that our starters needed, so they played weak coverage and very basic offensive schemes, I have to feel this way because nothing else explains how poorly we played.

I'am see player grades, and stats that don't align to what I saw, Gary gets a good grade, however he and Z gave up the edge to big runs

same with these OL grades, we miss the interior ability of Jenkins to clean out the front side ILB, Patrick, as Dougherty said is just not athletic enough to get that done, so when people say Dillon should have run up the gut more, I tend to agree, but with those reservations, sometimes we think we know more then what the coaches see on the field.

[lupedafiasco]

well the talent is basically the same on the DL, Barry has better safety's, better CB's, and better pass rushers then the last year of Capers, and should have more experience then Pettines first season, you have to admit this defense looked poorly coached Sunday.

your right, defense is about a coaches philosophy, but it's beyond obvious that talent matters, and as to our DL, we have Clark, and a bunch of under performers, same at WR, we have Adams and all the rest, why anyone would down play mediocre talent, or think any coach should be able to over come jag play by saying it's all about philosophy negates the reason teams pay a guy like JT Watts, or Aaron Donald the big dollars, talent matters no matter the scheme a DC uses.

I agree with that. But the Packers pay the likes of big time guys too. In fact we have more "high paid guys and upper echelon talen" this year and last year compared to really any other team in the league. It's why our cap will literally be destroyed in 2022 and we will have to make cuts like the Saints did coming into this season.

For as much as we want to poop on the Packers weaknesses (DL and WR), we need to look at the opponent we played last Sunday and come to the conclusion that their DL and WR room was significantly worse from a talent standpoint compared to us. And they did just fine.

I feel the great teams have the same or even less of the high end players we have, but they also dont have the low end players that we always put on the field for significant snaps. They seem to bring in aging vet on cheap deals who want a ring and use those guys to fill holes. We never seem to do that. They also seem to find a few guys no one has heard of and coach them up to competence. Sort of like Chandon Sullivan types, even tho he is looking like he gets exposed every time he takes the field these days.

My point is we absolutely have the high end talent needed, i believe most championship teams put more effort into feeling glaring holes tho and have less of them by the end of the year.

Im of the same mindset. A ton of star power here. Also a lot of trash level talent on the roster. I also dont think elite teams just continuously go season in and season out with the same positional weaknesses. At some point you need to fix the issues on the team.

[paco]

Saints had a "handful" of offensive coaches test positive for Covid. So it turns out that our defense was just being smart and staying away from their offense to make sure they didn't get it. Yep, that's what happened.

[go pak go]

well the talent is basically the same on the DL, Barry has better safety's, better CB's, and better pass rushers then the last year of Capers, and should have more experience then Pettines first season, you have to admit this defense looked poorly coached Sunday.

your right, defense is about a coaches philosophy, but it's beyond obvious that talent matters, and as to our DL, we have Clark, and a bunch of under performers, same at WR, we have Adams and all the rest, why anyone would down play mediocre talent, or think any coach should be able to over come jag play by saying it's all about philosophy negates the reason teams pay a guy like JT Watts, or Aaron Donald the big dollars, talent matters no matter the scheme a DC uses.

I agree with that. But the Packers pay the likes of big time guys too. In fact we have more "high paid guys and upper echelon talen" this year and last year compared to really any other team in the league. It's why our cap will literally be destroyed in 2022 and we will have to make cuts like the Saints did coming into this season.

For as much as we want to poop on the Packers weaknesses (DL and WR), we need to look at the opponent we played last Sunday and come to the conclusion that their DL and WR room was significantly worse from a talent standpoint compared to us. And they did just fine.

I feel the great teams have the same or even less of the high end players we have, but they also dont have the low end players that we always put on the field for significant snaps. They seem to bring in aging vet on cheap deals who want a ring and use those guys to fill holes. We never seem to do that. They also seem to find a few guys no one has heard of and coach them up to competence. Sort of like Chandon Sullivan types, even tho he is looking like he gets exposed every time he takes the field these days.

My point is we absolutely have the high end talent needed, i believe most championship teams put more effort into feeling glaring holes tho and have less of them by the end of the year.

I couldn't disagree with this more. We brought in Snacks Harrison last year. We brought in Tevon Austin and Swervin Ervin. We elevated Allan Lazard. We brought in Veldheer and Kelley. We signed Wagner and De'Vondre Campbell to cheap deals who did okay in starting/backup roles especially at their value.

I don't look at the Saints and their Chrisian Ringo acquisition at being their starting DT and be like "wow he is so much better than Tyler Lancaster" Because we know who Christian Ringo is. He was a Packer and a guy not good enough for us.

And the facts prove this too. We win a LOT of games. Especially when you look at the MLF/Gute era. Only the Chiefs can be in the same conversation as us. And we won those games when Rodgers was good (2020) and Rodgers was not so good (2019)

[Pckfn23]