Packers Huddle

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

05 Mar 2024 12:46

I think Bartons best position is probably going to end up being C and then LG. Hes gone 3 straight years at LT and played C as a freshman for a handful of games. Still its a positions hes not refined on at the college level. I dont think that makes him worth a 1st. However in the 2nd I am in on drafting him.

From there you figure out where the biggest dropoff is between Myers or Rhyan. From what I've seen so far I dont know if you can keep Rhyan on the field. Myers is inconsistent in the run game for sure but at least he protects well. Rhyan is inconsistent everywhere but maybe year 3 things click for him.

This is sort of where I am. Which is why I like him at 41 but not 25 which means likely not getting him. He’s both exactly what we need with his G/C versatility, technical play, and toughness. But it’s also a position switch and competition on the interior OL, which isn’t the most “great use of first round value” in my books.

The marriage of maximizing value and just getting what you want/need is always a tricky balance; not to start that debate
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You gave me a good segue for a question I was thinking of!

Let's say that Guty and the scout team find a guy they really value a LOT. I'm not just talking best player available. I mean, they think he could be really special, even if he's still raw and needs plenty of development. (Could actually draw a comparison to drafting Jordan Love here.) Would Guty find motivation to pick such a player higher than normal?

For example, if Barton were valued at mid-round 2 but Guty and the team think he's the next coming of Gale Gillingham or the potential HOF player, would he use pick 25 to get the guy, knowing he won't be available when we pick in the 2nd round?

Throw in another twist to the question. Our roster is arguably filled really well in many positions. If so, would that also allow Guty to "flex" his usual way of business in drafting? Maybe he trades up from lower down to get the right value in an unusual way?

BTW, I chose Safety for greatest need to draft when the poll on this thread was posted. With the acquisition of McKinney, I still want a Safety. But I'd be more tempted now to think our greatest need for drafting is ILB.

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

17 Mar 2024 19:20

You gave me a good segue for a question I was thinking of.

Let's say that Guty and the scout team find a guy they really value a LOT. I'm not just talking best player available. I mean, they think he could be really special, even if he's still raw and needs plenty of development. (Could actually draw a comparison to drafting Jordan Love here.) Would Guty find motivation to pick such a player higher than normal?

For example, if Barton were valued at mid-round 2 but Guty and the team think he's the next coming of Gale Gillingham or the potential HOF player, would he use pick 25 to get the guy, knowing he won't be available when we pick in the 2nd round?

I believe that if Gutekunst and the scouting department consider a prospect a potential HOF player they wouldn't grade him as a mid-round 2 pick but would be excited that player dropped to 25 and select him in a heartbeat.

CWIMM wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 05:20

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

17 Mar 2024 19:20

You gave me a good segue for a question I was thinking of.

Let's say that Guty and the scout team find a guy they really value a LOT. I'm not just talking best player available. I mean, they think he could be really special, even if he's still raw and needs plenty of development. (Could actually draw a comparison to drafting Jordan Love here.) Would Guty find motivation to pick such a player higher than normal?

For example, if Barton were valued at mid-round 2 but Guty and the team think he's the next coming of Gale Gillingham or the potential HOF player, would he use pick 25 to get the guy, knowing he won't be available when we pick in the 2nd round?

I believe that if Gutekunst and the scouting department consider a prospect a potential HOF player they wouldn't grade him as a mid-round 2 pick but would be excited that player dropped to 25 and select him in a heartbeat.

And I’d love Barton at 25.

Why wouldn't Barton be available in the 2nd round? His grade is 6.46 which equates to the lower half of the 2nd round or the upper half of the 3rd.

If he goes before then, so be it, there will be other similar players. Don't reach at 25 or 41.

In the 20's there will likely be Cooper DeJean, Kool-Aid McKinstry, Terrion Arnold and Quinyon Mitchell, all cornerbacks. And Tyler Nubin at Safety. A sane GM takes Nubin and most of those CB's over Baron every day and twice on Sunday.

At 41, Edgerrin Cooper or Payton Wilson at ILB and there are more CB's and Safeties who might be good picks at 41.Wilson ran a 4.44 as a 230 pound ILB. Cooper might be a reach but look at his 10 yard split.

If the Packers can find a starter at CB/Slot and a 2nd safety and another starting ILB, they have a legitimate chance of winning the SB. This Season! This is no time to be drafting prospects on the Oline in the first 2 rounds.

If you are going to reach in the draft, at least reach for a player who will contribute as a rookie even if it is only on ST. Barton won't.

Those are media grades, take them with a grain of salt.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 08:21

Why wouldn't Barton be available in the 2nd round? His grade is 6.46 which equates to the lower half of the 2nd round or the upper half of the 3rd.

If he goes before then, so be it, there will be other similar players. Don't reach at 25 or 41.

In the 20's there will likely be Cooper DeJean, Kool-Aid McKinstry, Terrion Arnold and Quinyon Mitchell, all cornerbacks. And Tyler Nubin at Safety. A sane GM takes Nubin and most of those CB's over Baron every day and twice on Sunday.

At 41, Edgerrin Cooper or Payton Wilson at ILB and there are more CB's and Safeties who might be good picks at 41.Wilson ran a 4.44 as a 230 pound ILB. Cooper might be a reach but look at his 10 yard split.

If the Packers can find a starter at CB/Slot and a 2nd safety and another starting ILB, they have a legitimate chance of winning the SB. This Season! This is no time to be drafting prospects on the Oline in the first 2 rounds.

If you are going to reach in the draft, at least reach for a player who will contribute as a rookie even if it is only on ST. Barton won't.

If the Packers choose to take someone at 25 who CBS says is ranked 45, I do not care. ‘We could have had him later’ means nothing and can not be known.

Packers will probably log an additional 500 man hours digging into Barton, or others, than the echo chamber media. They talk to head coaches, assistant coaches, hs coaches, friends, teachers, trainers, the actual player themselves, watch every snap, get full doctors reports, they get know what our coaches are looking for in players.

They can certainly and obviously still get it wrong, but the consensus echo chamber media narrative does really mean anything.

when was the last time the Packers used a 1st rounder on a interior OL man, I can't remember them ever doing it, and I sure don't see it happening this draft either.

the biggest reason imho for players to drop is the interview, they come off in a way that turns the GM fraternity against using there high picks on them, many believe it's why Rodgers dropped, years later now it makes sense.

some of these interior lineman will go off round one, just doubt it will be to us.

I am all for an IOL in Round 1, but if we are doing it, I need the guy to be a Monster, not just a sold all-arounder ala Elgton Jenkins.

Guys who fit the bill for that to me are Taliese Fauga and Jackson Powers-Johnson, mayyybe Troy Fautanu.

Graham Barton? I like him, but do not love him at 25. It is a deep OL class, you can get a C/G in Day 2 or even early Day 3.

I don't hate it because we pick late Round 1, so it is basically like a Round 2 pick, and we might not have 25 guys with a 1st Round grade anyway, but the difference between 25 and even 41 is not small, IMO.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 09:26

when was the last time the Packers used a 1st rounder on a interior OL man, I can't remember them ever doing it, and I sure don't see it happening this draft either.

the biggest reason imho for players to drop is the interview, they come off in a way that turns the GM fraternity against using there high picks on them, many believe it's why Rodgers dropped, years later now it makes sense.

some of these interior lineman will go off round one, just doubt it will be to us.

Correct. It is also correct that the characteristics of Packer draft picks are almost always BIG and FAST. When they have gone outside that rule, they have wound up with busts like Amari Rodgers. That athletic profile score also known as Prospect Grade on nfl.com is more accurate for the Packers than for many teams. As a result, they like players like Christian Watson, Quay Walker and Lukas Van Ness even though Watson was from a small school and Van Ness was not a starter at Iowa.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 09:26

when was the last time the Packers used a 1st rounder on a interior OL man, I can't remember them ever doing it, and I sure don't see it happening this draft either.

the biggest reason imho for players to drop is the interview, they come off in a way that turns the GM fraternity against using there high picks on them, many believe it's why Rodgers dropped, years later now it makes sense.

some of these interior lineman will go off round one, just doubt it will be to us.

Well Barton certainly has the ability to play outside. Not sure if that’ll be his best position, but he certainly isn’t interior only.

And just because they haven’t certainly doesn’t mean they won’t. A safety and off ball LB in recent years and another safety back in 2014 and guards/centers under gute at 44 and 62. IOL more valuable than off ball LBs and safeties (as determined by contracts), so I 100% think an IOL would be in play if the board falls that way.

BF004 wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 09:54

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 09:26

when was the last time the Packers used a 1st rounder on a interior OL man, I can't remember them ever doing it, and I sure don't see it happening this draft either.

the biggest reason imho for players to drop is the interview, they come off in a way that turns the GM fraternity against using there high picks on them, many believe it's why Rodgers dropped, years later now it makes sense.

some of these interior lineman will go off round one, just doubt it will be to us.

Well Barton certainly has the ability to play outside. Not sure if that’ll be his best position, but he certainly isn’t interior only.

And just because they haven’t certainly doesn’t mean they won’t. A safety and off ball LB in recent years and another safety back in 2014 and guards/centers under gute at 44 and 62. IOL more valuable than off ball LBs and safeties (as determined by contracts), so I 100% think an IOL would be in play if the board falls that way.

I disagree, we've gotten around average G play for years and did just fine.

I'm a little torn on this.

I think Barton is a perfect fit for us. Can compete to start at RG in year one and can lock down C if Meyers walks next year. Positional flexibility gives us the chance to basically pick the best two among Rhyan, Meyers, and Barton to solidify our line now and moving forward.

But I also like the idea of taking premium positions in round one, and between Barton, Jackson Powers-Johnson, and Zach Frazier, can we count on getting one of those starting quality iOL players at 41? And how much differentiation is there between those three?

I don’t have a strong opinion on either of those questions. But those are the questions on my mind in this general regard.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 10:45

BF004 wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 09:54

IOL more valuable than off ball LBs and safeties (as determined by contracts),

I disagree,

Of course

we used slot 22 on a mentally challenged Walker 2 years ago, we have a new DC that will need to rely on one who is not mentally deficient, so take your pick, again we have been able to get by with mid round wannabe's at RG, and have struggled to the point of mediocrity in short center, we just bought a FS, and dumped a declining lber.

I based my reply on the position I actually do believe is more important, and also our track record acquiring OL man.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 10:51

I'm a little torn on this.

I think Barton is a perfect fit for us. Can compete to start at RG in year one and can lock down C if Meyers walks next year. Positional flexibility gives us the chance to basically pick the best two among Rhyan, Meyers, and Barton to solidify our line now and moving forward.

But I also like the idea of taking premium positions in round one, and between Barton, Jackson Powers-Johnson, and Zach Frazier, can we count on getting one of those starting quality iOL players at 41? And how much differentiation is there between those three?

I don’t have a strong opinion on either of those questions. But those are the questions on my mind in this general regard.

I think JPJ is a generational talent. I would have no problem taking him Rd 1. I don't think I would support anyone else in Rd1 for Interior Oline.

go pak go wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 12:01

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 10:51

I'm a little torn on this.

I think Barton is a perfect fit for us. Can compete to start at RG in year one and can lock down C if Meyers walks next year. Positional flexibility gives us the chance to basically pick the best two among Rhyan, Meyers, and Barton to solidify our line now and moving forward.

But I also like the idea of taking premium positions in round one, and between Barton, Jackson Powers-Johnson, and Zach Frazier, can we count on getting one of those starting quality iOL players at 41? And how much differentiation is there between those three?

I don’t have a strong opinion on either of those questions. But those are the questions on my mind in this general regard.

I think JPJ is a generational talent. I would have no problem taking him Rd 1. I don't think I would support anyone else in Rd1 for Interior Oline.

Wow that's high praise I hope your right if he's a packer

I prefer Barton actually. More versatile and I like his play better. JPJ delivers that huge blow but Barton I thought latched on and finished better. Both play with nasty streaks and I think are long time high end starters so I'm cool with either

Threw together a quick mock. Traded back a couple of times. Just missed the preferred LBs. Passed on JPJ and Barton in the 1st and didn't end up with a OG until later. Essentially after 126, I hadn't heard of guys.

What do you think about Wiggins? Showed up 182 to his Pro Day which was much better than the combine (he was sick).

paco wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 15:42

Threw together a quick mock. Traded back a couple of times. Just missed the preferred LBs. Passed on JPJ and Barton in the 1st and didn't end up with a OG until later. Essentially after 126, I hadn't heard of guys.

What do you think about Wiggins? Showed up 182 to his Pro Day which was much better than the combine (he was sick).

image.png

The claim is Wiggins was sick and that's why he was so light. 182 is better and he's 20 so maybe he can pack on another 10 in a year. Besides that he's super athletic and has that alpha attitude.

Only pick here I can't see is Paul. Just not a packer type.

Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 17:13

paco wrote: ↑

18 Mar 2024 15:42

Threw together a quick mock. Traded back a couple of times. Just missed the preferred LBs. Passed on JPJ and Barton in the 1st and didn't end up with a OG until later. Essentially after 126, I hadn't heard of guys.

What do you think about Wiggins? Showed up 182 to his Pro Day which was much better than the combine (he was sick).

image.png

The claim is Wiggins was sick and that's why he was so light. 182 is better and he's 20 so maybe he can pack on another 10 in a year. Besides that he's super athletic and has that alpha attitude.

Only pick here I can't see is Paul. Just not a packer type.

Why isn't Paul a Packer type?