Here's Johnny!! (Return of the Mac) Wk10

[packman114]

Sorry Yoop, I cant agree with you this time.

Even Rodgers said he wasn't playing up to his standards! Now a lot of that was the o-line and WR injuries and poor play. But there have been more times this year when he did have guys open, he missed them. He talked about the little guy on his shoulder questioning whether he could play elite anymore after the Detroit game. He said that little guy was sent to hell on Sunday. No coincidence in my mind that having our best 5 o-line playing the whole game and we score 31. Rodgers having confidence in his o-line changes our offense. Hell even Watkins caught a back shoulder throw! That hasn't happened all year.

[go pak go]

A couple of guys I want to give a shoutout on Here's Johnny:

1. Yosh Nijman - I think he has been getting more grief deserved at RT. The Cowboys pass rush and run front line (rush defense for that matter) is incredible. Nijman was tasked on blocking the best defensive player in the league in Micah Parsons and I honestly never heard Parsons name called. That is a huge compliment to Yosh Nijman and a very exciting development!

2. Isaiah McDuffie - Man this guy plays with a lot of fire. He might be slightly undersized but the dude is just so much fun to watch. Once again he was all over the place making tackle after tackle. Had trouble getting Prescott down on a 4th down if I remember but he was disadvantaged to do much in time.

[Yoop]

I finished it for you.

You say it literally yourself ALL THE TIME. Rodgers ain't perfect. Unless you actually try and specifically identify his imperfection. Then it's everyone else's fault.

Rodgers has been closer to perfect then almost every QB I've ever seen, I think the QB's your describing are either young, or have always dealt with accuracy issues, it's been rare for AR to throw a pass Adams couldn't catch, what we just saw for 2 months is Aaron not knowing how much to lead a receiver, not knowing where the receiver will be and simply throwing to a spot the receiver is suppose to be at, you'd need every finger and toe and all of mine to count up all the screw ups these receivers have made, so when you cretic everything Rodgers has done wrong it pales compared to the lousy OL blocking and this rag tag bunch of receivers Rodgers has had to play with.

I know, you hate Rodgers, and are trying to defend the grocery shopper ( Gutekunst)

I've creticed the offensive line when they were terrible. I had many posts pointing out the Oline is the single largest problem of the Green Bay Packers when this forum was flipping out about the offense.

However, the offensive line by and large has been playing good ball since the Washington game. The Oline's low point was the Jets game and it has been pointing up since then.

Our WRs have been very poor. The injuries has absolutely decimated that group. Sammy Watkins cannot be in our major lineup if we actually want to go somewhere. We also never had any weapon threat. Doubs tried but wasn't to the level necessary to make defenses respect it.

That being said Rodgers was also a poor leader, poor passer and poor decision maker. Detroit was his low point. Not only was the Lions game his worst game of his career, I would garner it to be one of the worst QB performances this year period.

All can be true and all are true. When your analysis of a player is contingent on what their COVID vaccine card says, I apologize if my view of your credibility is low.

good points, but I've said from the beginning that the OL and WR issues lead to Rodgers doing what we have seen, forcing throws, indecisive, even inaccuracy stem from those shortcomings, in real life I'am sure even a young en such as yourself has witnessed how these type things can snowball, thats a point I've tried to make all along, one bad thing, leads to another bad thing until it's finally corrected.

we've had success running before, and in those games Rodgers did connect with open receivers, to often they drop the ball, that creates doubt, Rodgers is bound to lose faith in the receivers, still with Doubs Rodgers kept going back to him, it was the same this week with Watson, thing is Rodgers wasn't always able to continue to throw to Watson, to often Watson was out with some injury (kid needs to add a few lbs of muscle), same with Watkins, guy misses to much game time.

Lazard, we all Love Lazards work ethic, but he isn't the most agile of receivers, trips, falls down, or is so slow in his routes he can't separate, his saving grace is that he is very good at winning contested throws, seriously add this all up and any QB would struggle just as Rodgers has.

just my opinion, I admit to not being able to read Rodgers mind
not reading defenses post snap is language between Rodgers and Lafluer, such as, I don't like your called play, but I'll stick with it even when I wanted to do something else

flash back to 2018, Rodgers not throwing checkdowns

I will continue to wait for iso go routes to open even though you have not replaced the receivers that made those routes work, imo these are the actions Rodgers uses when normal communications fail, the problem was not so much McCarthy or his passing schemes, the problem was not replacing the declining Nelson and the always injured Cobb, and I said that at that time.

[Labrev]

I think we need more of a rotation at ILB, like much of last year. Quay has the physical tools to be better than McDuffie, but he's isn't there yet.

I get that you need to give him reps so he can get there, yet I think those reps need to be split between the two of them when Campbell gets back.

Not to mention Barnes will be back soon, who is one of our best ILBs against the run.

[Yoop]

Sorry Yoop, I cant agree with you this time.

Even Rodgers said he wasn't playing up to his standards! Now a lot of that was the o-line and WR injuries and poor play. But there have been more times this year when he did have guys open, he missed them. He talked about the little guy on his shoulder questioning whether he could play elite anymore after the Detroit game. He said that little guy was sent to hell on Sunday. No coincidence in my mind that having our best 5 o-line playing the whole game and we score 31. Rodgers having confidence in his o-line changes our offense. Hell even Watkins caught a back shoulder throw! That hasn't happened all year.

I didn't hear Rodgers say that, granted I rarely listen to post game pressers, as you said the OL and WR issues are the root problems, Rodgers poor play escalates from that imo, whenever doubt crepes in people tend to over think things, miss opportunities, and a general decline evolves, one thing tends to lead to another.

we relied on Broken Bahk and Jenkins to be ready to start the season, we relied on the oft injured Cobb, Watkins, and can't walk Lazard to be the main stays of a very young receiver group, and they all failed miserably, as a result we witnessed decline from Rodgers, not actually a physical decline so much as a mental anguish and frustration which leads to what I tried to describe above, once the OL got better, and the receivers caught balls, Rodgers again looks pretty good

[go pak go]

Rodgers has been closer to perfect then almost every QB I've ever seen, I think the QB's your describing are either young, or have always dealt with accuracy issues, it's been rare for AR to throw a pass Adams couldn't catch, what we just saw for 2 months is Aaron not knowing how much to lead a receiver, not knowing where the receiver will be and simply throwing to a spot the receiver is suppose to be at, you'd need every finger and toe and all of mine to count up all the screw ups these receivers have made, so when you cretic everything Rodgers has done wrong it pales compared to the lousy OL blocking and this rag tag bunch of receivers Rodgers has had to play with.

I know, you hate Rodgers, and are trying to defend the grocery shopper ( Gutekunst)

I've creticed the offensive line when they were terrible. I had many posts pointing out the Oline is the single largest problem of the Green Bay Packers when this forum was flipping out about the offense.

However, the offensive line by and large has been playing good ball since the Washington game. The Oline's low point was the Jets game and it has been pointing up since then.

Our WRs have been very poor. The injuries has absolutely decimated that group. Sammy Watkins cannot be in our major lineup if we actually want to go somewhere. We also never had any weapon threat. Doubs tried but wasn't to the level necessary to make defenses respect it.

That being said Rodgers was also a poor leader, poor passer and poor decision maker. Detroit was his low point. Not only was the Lions game his worst game of his career, I would garner it to be one of the worst QB performances this year period.

All can be true and all are true. When your analysis of a player is contingent on what their COVID vaccine card says, I apologize if my view of your credibility is low.

good points, but I've said from the beginning that the OL and WR issues lead to Rodgers doing what we have seen, forcing throws, indecisive, even inaccuracy stem from those shortcomings, in real life I'am sure even a young en such as yourself has witnessed how these type things can snowball, thats a point I've tried to make all along, one bad thing, leads to another bad thing until it's finally corrected.

Right. Football is a game with 11 people on each side and 40 players in total seeing significant playing time each game. What this means is the complete dependence on teammates as well as insane amount of variables that impact an outcome of a play.

Because of this, you can literally make any narrative you choose and you would have at least some data to support it because of the pure amount of data. It is not unfathomable to defend Joey Harrington is a great quarterback using the same arguments you used to defend Rodgers this year. You can blame coach, Oine, recievers, culture, etc. on why Harrington wasn't the problem. But in the end, we all know that Joey Harrington was a problem or at the very least was certainly not the solution. (which may be even more important)

It's why I don't get too heavy in trying to do the snowball theory. Can you to a point? Absolutely. I never expected an MVP season. We didn't have the weapons for it. But I did expect top 10 QB play and average offensive production that peaked toward the end of the year.

Yes. You could argue that the poor group around Rodgers is bad, but that doesn't excuse his 3 interceptions or missing wideopn reads in Detroit. Those were just awful throws or poor decisions that directly lost the game. You could also argue that Rodgers knew what he was getting himself into taking on the contract he did. Like of course his supporting cast won't be as good. That has been predicted for a long time. Math simply told us we would have a lower weapon team if relying on vets to do it.

Instead I like to just point out the truth. Rodgers by and large has played bad football for the exception of the Bills game and then the Dallas game saw an MVP performance. There were only 2 or 3 plays vs Dallas that I saw as a demerit against Rodgers. There were double to triple plays in every other game (especially Detroit) I could point out demerits on Rodgers. I stated before the Dallas game that literally any other QB would do just as well as #12 at the helm. I stated that not because of my view of other QBs but because we couldn't get much worse. I mean fumbles, pick 6's, multi-interception games. We have seen it all this year with no play-making in between until Sunday at Dallas.

On the flip side, Rodgers played masterfully vs the Cowboys which is no small feat. The Cowboys have a legit defense and Rodgers dissected them with his limited 22 passing attempts. So when I see good QB play, I'm going to praise it. And I absolutely have praised it this year. This whole thread is about praising Rodgers's play vs the Cowboys.

[Yoop]

I've creticed the offensive line when they were terrible. I had many posts pointing out the Oline is the single largest problem of the Green Bay Packers when this forum was flipping out about the offense.

However, the offensive line by and large has been playing good ball since the Washington game. The Oline's low point was the Jets game and it has been pointing up since then.

Our WRs have been very poor. The injuries has absolutely decimated that group. Sammy Watkins cannot be in our major lineup if we actually want to go somewhere. We also never had any weapon threat. Doubs tried but wasn't to the level necessary to make defenses respect it.

That being said Rodgers was also a poor leader, poor passer and poor decision maker. Detroit was his low point. Not only was the Lions game his worst game of his career, I would garner it to be one of the worst QB performances this year period.

All can be true and all are true. When your analysis of a player is contingent on what their COVID vaccine card says, I apologize if my view of your credibility is low.

good points, but I've said from the beginning that the OL and WR issues lead to Rodgers doing what we have seen, forcing throws, indecisive, even inaccuracy stem from those shortcomings, in real life I'am sure even a young en such as yourself has witnessed how these type things can snowball, thats a point I've tried to make all along, one bad thing, leads to another bad thing until it's finally corrected.

Right. Football is a game with 11 people on each side and 40 players in total seeing significant playing time each game. What this means is the complete dependence on teammates as well as insane amount of variables that impact an outcome of a play.

Because of this, you can literally make any narrative you choose and you would have at least some data to support it because of the pure amount of data. It is not unfathomable to defend Joey Harrington is a great quarterback using the same arguments you used to defend Rodgers this year. You can blame coach, Oine, recievers, culture, etc. on why Harrington wasn't the problem. But in the end, we all know that Joey Harrington was a problem or at the very least was certainly not the solution. (which may be even more important)

It's why I don't get too heavy in trying to do the snowball theory. Can you to a point? Absolutely. I never expected an MVP season. We didn't have the weapons for it. But I did expect top 10 QB play and average offensive production that peaked toward the end of the year.

Yes. You could argue that the poor group around Rodgers is bad, but that doesn't excuse his 3 interceptions or missing wideopn reads in Detroit. Those were just awful throws or poor decisions that directly lost the game. You could also argue that Rodgers knew what he was getting himself into taking on the contract he did. Like of course his supporting cast won't be as good. That has been predicted for a long time. Math simply told us we would have a lower weapon team if relying on vets to do it.

Instead I like to just point out the truth. Rodgers by and large has played bad football for the exception of the Bills game and then the Dallas game saw an MVP performance. There were only 2 or 3 plays vs Dallas that I saw as a demerit against Rodgers. There were double to triple plays in every other game (especially Detroit) I could point out demerits on Rodgers. I stated before the Dallas game that literally any other QB would do just as well as #12 at the helm. I stated that not because of my view of other QBs but because we couldn't get much worse. I mean fumbles, pick 6's, multi-interception games. We have seen it all this year with no play-making in between until Sunday at Dallas.

On the flip side, Rodgers played masterfully vs the Cowboys which is no small feat. The Cowboys have a legit defense and Rodgers dissected them with his limited 22 passing attempts. So when I see good QB play, I'm going to praise it. And I absolutely have praised it this year. This whole thread is about praising Rodgers's play vs the Cowboys.

thanks for your opinions, but you are basing Rodgers play in the first 8 games on mostly stats and the lousy OL play and Receivers, and they control those stats just as much as Rodgers does, my point is they led to Rodgers inability to play up to his own ability, your simply refusing to link one with the other.

it's the same with running the football, our OL run blocking has been just about as bad as pass pro at times, there was a stat ( stats again are not always conclusive with reality ) earlier that showed our RB's near top of the league with yards after contact, so what does that tell you? obviously the run blocking in those situations led Lafluer to lack faith in our ability to succeed running the ball, it seemed evident to me that we had to create some passing success in order to run more affectively, Rodgers and Lafluer where blamed for passing to much, it's a catch 22 thing, damned if ya do, or ya don't, couple that with drive ending drops killed us, you can blame Rodgers for a errant pass here and there, but Rodgers had nothing to do with the escalation of that crap.

[Pckfn23]

thanks for your opinions, but you are basing Rodgers play in the first 8 games on mostly stats

Hardly at all actually. Basing it off of watching him play and other metrics that isolate QB play. QB play can be poor independent of the play of other positions, and it was. Rodgers finally played up to his potential on Sunday, that's what that was.

Go to Quarterbacks - https://rbsdm.com/stats/stats/

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22nd of 33.

If Rodgers and the offensive line can play like they did on Sunday, we can beat anyone. If they play like they did the first 9 week, we can lose to anyone.

[go pak go]

thanks for your opinions, but you are basing Rodgers play in the first 8 games on mostly stats and the lousy OL play and Receivers, and they control those stats just as much as Rodgers does, my point is they led to Rodgers inability to play up to his own ability, your simply refusing to link one with the other.

On the contrary. I have absolutely tried to link the external team play of the offense to Rodgers. I have tried to give the benefit of the doubt. But when you look at specific data analytics, people grading film and the obvious errant throws, poor decisions and lack of decision making, it becomes very apparent that linking poor offensive play is more of a crutch than it is a reality.

Is it a variable? Absolutely. Is it the extreme variable you are portraying it out to be? Absolutely not.

The answer is all parts have disappointed. And when you read that sentence, "all parts have disappointed" and that triggers you...probably should have a human idol check on yourself.

But again, 12 played great on Sunday. Even with issues at WR...12 still played great. There were only a handful of plays he'd like to have back but the great plays heavily out weighed them.

[Yoop]

thanks for your opinions, but you are basing Rodgers play in the first 8 games on mostly stats and the lousy OL play and Receivers, and they control those stats just as much as Rodgers does, my point is they led to Rodgers inability to play up to his own ability, your simply refusing to link one with the other.

On the contrary. I have absolutely tried to link the external team play of the offense to Rodgers. I have tried to give the benefit of the doubt. But when you look at specific data analytics, people grading film and the obvious errant throws, poor decisions and lack of decision making, it becomes very apparent that linking poor offensive play is more of a crutch than it is a reality.

Is it a variable? Absolutely. Is it the extreme variable you are portraying it out to be? Absolutely not.

The answer is all parts have disappointed. And when you read that sentence, "all parts have disappointed" and that triggers you...probably should have a human idol check on yourself.

But again, 12 played great on Sunday. Even with issues at WR...12 still played great. There were only a handful of plays he'd like to have back but the great plays heavily out weighed them.

I listen to guys like Warner, Simms, Bradshaw etc, and they all agree our offense became chaotic do to dropped passes, receiver running wrong routes, poor blocking, that stuff will make any QB look bad, never said Rodgers hasn't thrown a poor pass, who doesn't, just that these other problems where the main driver with the offense problems, you guys think it was Rodgers, fine, we can agree to disagree.

[Pckfn23]

No, us guys, think it was all the parts other than Aaron Jones.

And you don't listen to those guys, you pick and choose what you want to hear. Warner rightfully called out the receivers, he did not absolve Rodgers...

Wait... You listen to Terry Bradshaw...?

[go pak go]

thanks for your opinions, but you are basing Rodgers play in the first 8 games on mostly stats and the lousy OL play and Receivers, and they control those stats just as much as Rodgers does, my point is they led to Rodgers inability to play up to his own ability, your simply refusing to link one with the other.

On the contrary. I have absolutely tried to link the external team play of the offense to Rodgers. I have tried to give the benefit of the doubt. But when you look at specific data analytics, people grading film and the obvious errant throws, poor decisions and lack of decision making, it becomes very apparent that linking poor offensive play is more of a crutch than it is a reality.

Is it a variable? Absolutely. Is it the extreme variable you are portraying it out to be? Absolutely not.

The answer is all parts have disappointed. And when you read that sentence, "all parts have disappointed" and that triggers you...probably should have a human idol check on yourself.

But again, 12 played great on Sunday. Even with issues at WR...12 still played great. There were only a handful of plays he'd like to have back but the great plays heavily out weighed them.

I listen to guys like Warner, Simms, Bradshaw etc

But not guys like JT O'Sullivan because he's just a clickbait monster right?

[Yoop]

On the contrary. I have absolutely tried to link the external team play of the offense to Rodgers. I have tried to give the benefit of the doubt. But when you look at specific data analytics, people grading film and the obvious errant throws, poor decisions and lack of decision making, it becomes very apparent that linking poor offensive play is more of a crutch than it is a reality.

Is it a variable? Absolutely. Is it the extreme variable you are portraying it out to be? Absolutely not.

The answer is all parts have disappointed. And when you read that sentence, "all parts have disappointed" and that triggers you...probably should have a human idol check on yourself.

But again, 12 played great on Sunday. Even with issues at WR...12 still played great. There were only a handful of plays he'd like to have back but the great plays heavily out weighed them.

I listen to guys like Warner, Simms, Bradshaw etc

But not guys like JT O'Sullivan because he's just a clickbait monster right?

Even JT has said he can't be sure on some plays who's at fault for balls thrown to empty spots, he also said his view is different then a on field view.

I also have come to doubt the grades from PFF, to often now they don't align with what I see on TV, for instance Bahk didn't give up a rush against the Cowboys, yet I saw a play that he did, they must register pressures different then I do.

maybe they register dropped passes on the QB, you'd probably go along with that, ahem

[Pckfn23]

And yet, you can be sure that Rodgers has been playing well all season?

[Realist]

I listen to guys like Warner, Simms, Bradshaw etc

But not guys like JT O'Sullivan because he's just a clickbait monster right?

Even JT has said he can't be sure on some plays who's at fault for balls thrown to empty spots, he also said his view is different then a on field view.

I also have come to doubt the grades from PFF, to often now they don't align with what I see on TV, for instance Bahk didn't give up a rush against the Cowboys, yet I saw a play that he did, they must register pressures different then I do.

maybe they register dropped passes on the QB, you'd probably go along with that, ahem

Unbelievable back and forth. It's like the twilight zone of idiocracy.

[Pckfn23]

But not guys like JT O'Sullivan because he's just a clickbait monster right?

Even JT has said he can't be sure on some plays who's at fault for balls thrown to empty spots, he also said his view is different then a on field view.

I also have come to doubt the grades from PFF, to often now they don't align with what I see on TV, for instance Bahk didn't give up a rush against the Cowboys, yet I saw a play that he did, they must register pressures different then I do.

maybe they register dropped passes on the QB, you'd probably go along with that, ahem

Unbelievable back and forth. It's like the twilight zone of idiocracy.

Honestly, do you ever want to actually talk football here or simply comment on other posters? Why are you even here?