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It's very similar in the work place. I'm not going to go to my boss with a recommendation or strong opinion if I haven't done my homework yet. And I certainly won't start insulting him if he asks me for supporting evidence.
see thats the thing here, I did do the homework, I went and found the stats, which unlike you or APB I put 2 and 2 together and actually did come up with reason Touri wasn't targeted more, the problem you and other seem to have is simple, your refusal to accept that lack of target relation to not being open when the QB looks your way is the main reason for lack of targeted throws, there no conspiracy to not throw to Touri for any other reason then JUST that, and those simple clues led to my opinion of Touris future status here.
you went on this insane attack for me to bring proof, just as 23 and now APB, when simply considering the reason why he/any receiver isn't being targeted more isn't some complicating thing at all, either can't get a release, or can't run the routes, and thats about it.
It's very similar in the work place. I'm not going to go to my boss with a recommendation or strong opinion if I haven't done my homework yet. And I certainly won't start insulting him if he asks me for supporting evidence.
see thats the thing here, I did do the homework, I went and found the stats, which unlike you or APB I put 2 and 2 together and actually did come up with reason Touri wasn't targeted more, the problem you and other seem to have is simple, your refusal to accept that lack of target relation to not being open when the QB looks your way is the main reason for lack of targeted throws, there no conspiracy to not throw to Touri for any other reason then JUST that, and those simple clues led to my opinion of Touris future status here.
you went on this insane attack for me to bring proof, just as 23 and now APB, when simply considering the reason why he/any receiver isn't being targeted more isn't some complicating thing at all, either can't get a release, or can't run the routes, and thats about it.
You would not be up for a promotion soon with that kind of logic. Your stats did not prove your claim. At best, it could have been supporting evidence had you brought specific examples of Toure running the wrong route.
It's very similar in the work place. I'm not going to go to my boss with a recommendation or strong opinion if I haven't done my homework yet. And I certainly won't start insulting him if he asks me for supporting evidence.
see thats the thing here, I did do the homework, I went and found the stats, which unlike you or APB I put 2 and 2 together and actually did come up with reason Touri wasn't targeted more, the problem you and other seem to have is simple, your refusal to accept that lack of target relation to not being open when the QB looks your way is the main reason for lack of targeted throws, there no conspiracy to not throw to Touri for any other reason then JUST that, and those simple clues led to my opinion of Touris future status here.
you went on this insane attack for me to bring proof, just as 23 and now APB, when simply considering the reason why he/any receiver isn't being targeted more isn't some complicating thing at all, either can't get a release, or can't run the routes, and thats about it.
You would not be up for a promotion soon with that kind of logic. Your stats did not prove your claim. At best, it could have been supporting evidence had you brought specific examples of Toure running the wrong route.
Spot on and succinct.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
It's very similar in the work place. I'm not going to go to my boss with a recommendation or strong opinion if I haven't done my homework yet. And I certainly won't start insulting him if he asks me for supporting evidence.
see thats the thing here, I did do the homework, I went and found the stats, which unlike you or APB I put 2 and 2 together and actually did come up with reason Touri wasn't targeted more, the problem you and other seem to have is simple, your refusal to accept that lack of target relation to not being open when the QB looks your way is the main reason for lack of targeted throws, there no conspiracy to not throw to Touri for any other reason then JUST that, and those simple clues led to my opinion of Touris future status here.
you went on this insane attack for me to bring proof, just as 23 and now APB, when simply considering the reason why he/any receiver isn't being targeted more isn't some complicating thing at all, either can't get a release, or can't run the routes, and thats about it.
You brought one one stat line and used it to support a very wide, but strog narrative.
That's pretty soft homework and should be defended further to support such a strong opinion.
Like if I were to say, "well Aaron Rodgers was 21st in completion % and therefore was a below average accurate QB in 2022"....you would probably want more from me like examples showing inaccuracy, taking into account WR drops, looking at Oline protection etc. How do I know this? Because you ask for the same "prove it" when anyone brings that up.
The big difference is is Toure has a small sample size which really makes stats almost worthless. I don't find it ridiculous at all that people asked for further support of your strong assertion.
As for the "I don't have time"....I just read 4 pages of ridiculing others here. Looks like time wasn't in short supply for that.
Last edited by go pak go on 17 May 2023 06:21, edited 1 time in total.
you and a few others hear seem to be the thin skinned people, lashing out at me for the mere mention that more then likely Toure was the reason for not doing better and not the QB
Yoop, again, less than 3 hours later:
I took it as a insult when APB made his sarcastic comment, I would never do that to others here.
That, following multiple pages of insults and sarcasm.
I mean, it's just pure gold. Four pages of it in this particular case.
Side note: the QB was never brought up by anyone but Yoop. But I digress...
you and a few others hear seem to be the thin skinned people, lashing out at me for the mere mention that more then likely Toure was the reason for not doing better and not the QB
Yoop, again, less than 3 hours later:
I took it as a insult when APB made his sarcastic comment, I would never do that to others here.
That, following multiple pages of insults and sarcasm.
I mean, it's just pure gold. Four pages of it in this particular case.
Side note: the QB was never brought up by anyone but Yoop. But I digress...
The last 4 pages are like a greatest hits album. Other highlights include:
- Not mentioning Rodgers in his original post but then admitting that he made that comment to drum up the same tired argument.
- "I don't have time to look up examples. I have things to do" and then goes on to insult/argue for the next 3 hours. Do we know if he ever completed his errands?
ou brought one one stat line and used it to support a very wide, but strog narrative.
it is the only evidence needed to come to the conclusion I did, snap count, targeted throws, catch % should be all the evidence needed to support my opinion, specially coupled with all the injury's that Touri was not getting open, simple as that, and when a receiver runs good routes they tend to get OPEN, and he didn't
the redundancy of asking for evidence over and over in every post Acrobat is what drove me to insult anyone, the gang mentality would cause anyone to recoil as I did
ou brought one one stat line and used it to support a very wide, but strog narrative.
it is the only evidence needed to come to the conclusion I did, snap count, targeted throws, catch % should be all the evidence needed to support my opinion, specially coupled with all the injury's that Touri was not getting open, simple as that, and when a receiver runs good routes they tend to get OPEN, and he didn't
the redundancy of asking for evidence over and over in every post Acrobat is what drove me to insult anyone, the gang mentality would cause anyone to recoil as I did
Yeah I just completely disagree with that. Snap count has very little value in determining young, ascending, bottom of roster player quality and potential. Our coaches have proved over and over their hesitancy to try the new young guy over the worse but "guy already in place"
For example, this is the same coaching staff that stuck behind Amari Rodgers all season until 8 fumbles in 1.5 years on punt returns forced their hand. Meanwhile, the guy behind Rodgers, the guy who couldn't clearly play because the "stats" proved it became the league's All Pro at returner with like 6 games to do it.
I also very much question how fast Watson would have been played had Doubs been healthy all year.
Snap count is a variable for sure. But I wouldn't consider it a lead pipe lock variable. Which again leads to people asking to expand your support is not unreasonable.
ou brought one one stat line and used it to support a very wide, but strog narrative.
it is the only evidence needed to come to the conclusion I did, snap count, targeted throws, catch % should be all the evidence needed to support my opinion, specially coupled with all the injury's that Touri was not getting open, simple as that, and when a receiver runs good routes they tend to get OPEN, and he didn't
the redundancy of asking for evidence over and over in every post Acrobat is what drove me to insult anyone, the gang mentality would cause anyone to recoil as I did
For example, this is the same coaching staff that stuck behind Amari Rodgers all season until 8 fumbles in 1.5 years on punt returns forced their hand. Meanwhile, the guy behind Rodgers, the guy who couldn't clearly play because the "stats" proved it became the league's All Pro at returner with like 6 games to do it.
ou brought one one stat line and used it to support a very wide, but strog narrative.
it is the only evidence needed to come to the conclusion I did, snap count, targeted throws, catch % should be all the evidence needed to support my opinion, specially coupled with all the injury's that Touri was not getting open, simple as that, and when a receiver runs good routes they tend to get OPEN, and he didn't
the redundancy of asking for evidence over and over in every post Acrobat is what drove me to insult anyone, the gang mentality would cause anyone to recoil as I did
No, that is absolutely not the only evidence needed, for several reasons. First, some receivers are decoys or used to clear out defenders. They can run the perfect route, but will never get the ball. Second, there is only 1 ball to go around and a receiver can run the perfect route, but still not get the ball. Third, snap count does not differentiate between pass and run, for all we know Toure could have been on the field for 102 run snaps and 10 pass snaps, which would then indicate he ran 10 perfect routes and did not have an issue with wrong or poor routes. Lastly, as an example, Davante Adams played 50 snaps, was thrown the ball 5 times and caught 4 of them. We passed the ball 24 times that day. By the logic you are using Davante Adams in 2021 against the Bears ran 19 wrong or poor routes.
This is a recurring problem and it stems from the lack of understanding of what statistics are and whaat individual statistics mean. This is why you tend to not like statistics, because you use them wrong or don't know what they are saying/implying. In this case, you are applying a stat to an opinion that does not reinforce your opinion. A receiver can run a perfect route and not get thrown the ball, so using targets as an indicator of wrong/poor routes is not conclusive and why you were asked to provide more evidence.
Last edited by Pckfn23 on 17 May 2023 10:28, edited 2 times in total.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
ou brought one one stat line and used it to support a very wide, but strog narrative.
it is the only evidence needed to come to the conclusion I did, snap count, targeted throws, catch % should be all the evidence needed to support my opinion, specially coupled with all the injury's that Touri was not getting open, simple as that, and when a receiver runs good routes they tend to get OPEN, and he didn't
the redundancy of asking for evidence over and over in every post Acrobat is what drove me to insult anyone, the gang mentality would cause anyone to recoil as I did
Yeah I just completely disagree with that. Snap count has very little value in determining young, ascending, bottom of roster player quality and potential. Our coaches have proved over and over their hesitancy to try the new young guy over the worse but "guy already in place"
For example, this is the same coaching staff that stuck behind Amari Rodgers all season until 8 fumbles in 1.5 years on punt returns forced their hand. Meanwhile, the guy behind Rodgers, the guy who couldn't clearly play because the "stats" proved it became the league's All Pro at returner with like 6 games to do it.
I also very much question how fast Watson would have been played had Doubs been healthy all year.
Snap count is a variable for sure. But I wouldn't consider it a lead pipe lock variable. Which again leads to people asking to expand your support is not unreasonable.
why are you comparing what happened in that disfunctional ST's gig with WR, why wont you consider all the other injury's for Touri even getting those 120 snaps, we where short on receivers Period, thats the only reason Touri was on the field, and then to only be targeted less then 8% of snap counts speaks volumns to me that Touri wasn't getting open Period who needs any other ifo to conclude Touri is very raw
the part about Doubs and Watson is also confusing, if Watson hadn't been hurt he would have over taken Lazard as the #1 no doubt in my mind about that, and if we had Wicks last year Touri wouldn't have ever played.
Touri was the last WR taqken in last years draft, and I will stand behind my yesterday prediction that Touri will be battling for our last receiver spot on the roster this season.
it is the only evidence needed to come to the conclusion I did, snap count, targeted throws, catch % should be all the evidence needed to support my opinion, specially coupled with all the injury's that Touri was not getting open, simple as that, and when a receiver runs good routes they tend to get OPEN, and he didn't
the redundancy of asking for evidence over and over in every post Acrobat is what drove me to insult anyone, the gang mentality would cause anyone to recoil as I did
Yeah I just completely disagree with that. Snap count has very little value in determining young, ascending, bottom of roster player quality and potential. Our coaches have proved over and over their hesitancy to try the new young guy over the worse but "guy already in place"
For example, this is the same coaching staff that stuck behind Amari Rodgers all season until 8 fumbles in 1.5 years on punt returns forced their hand. Meanwhile, the guy behind Rodgers, the guy who couldn't clearly play because the "stats" proved it became the league's All Pro at returner with like 6 games to do it.
I also very much question how fast Watson would have been played had Doubs been healthy all year.
Snap count is a variable for sure. But I wouldn't consider it a lead pipe lock variable. Which again leads to people asking to expand your support is not unreasonable.
why are you comparing what happened in that disfunctional ST's gig with WR, why wont you consider all the other injury's for Touri even getting those 120 snaps, we where short on receivers Period, thats the only reason Touri was on the field, and then to only be targeted less then 8% of snap counts speaks volumns to me that Touri wasn't getting open Period who needs any other ifo to conclude Touri is very raw
the part about Doubs and Watson is also confusing, if Watson hadn't been hurt he would have over taken Lazard as the #1 no doubt in my mind about that, and if we had Wicks last year Touri wouldn't have ever played.
Touri was the last WR taqken in last years draft, and I will stand behind my yesterday prediction that Touri will be battling for our last receiver spot on the roster this season.
It's been explained to you over and over why those stats don't come close to telling a complete story. That's why to truly have an informed opinion, you would need to analyze those 120 snaps. What was the playcall? What was the defensive coverage? Was he actually open but Rodgers was looking in the other direction. So many variables that make your evidence incomplete.
again, last year was a easy season for any receiver we had to be a targeted receiver, we lost 20 games to our main 5 WR's, in 11 games Touri was targeted 10 times and caught 50% of them, so no, Touri was not getting open, and receivers that don't get open are not good decoys.
I hear a bunch of posters trying to get me to believe Touri is better then I think he is, and you have brought zero evidence to change my mind, I wont because those stats tell me all I need to know to predict Touri will battle simply to make this roster and surely wont be our #4 now can we move on?
Yeah I just completely disagree with that. Snap count has very little value in determining young, ascending, bottom of roster player quality and potential. Our coaches have proved over and over their hesitancy to try the new young guy over the worse but "guy already in place"
For example, this is the same coaching staff that stuck behind Amari Rodgers all season until 8 fumbles in 1.5 years on punt returns forced their hand. Meanwhile, the guy behind Rodgers, the guy who couldn't clearly play because the "stats" proved it became the league's All Pro at returner with like 6 games to do it.
I also very much question how fast Watson would have been played had Doubs been healthy all year.
Snap count is a variable for sure. But I wouldn't consider it a lead pipe lock variable. Which again leads to people asking to expand your support is not unreasonable.
why are you comparing what happened in that disfunctional ST's gig with WR, why wont you consider all the other injury's for Touri even getting those 120 snaps, we where short on receivers Period, thats the only reason Touri was on the field, and then to only be targeted less then 8% of snap counts speaks volumns to me that Touri wasn't getting open Period who needs any other ifo to conclude Touri is very raw
the part about Doubs and Watson is also confusing, if Watson hadn't been hurt he would have over taken Lazard as the #1 no doubt in my mind about that, and if we had Wicks last year Touri wouldn't have ever played.
Touri was the last WR taqken in last years draft, and I will stand behind my yesterday prediction that Touri will be battling for our last receiver spot on the roster this season.
It's been explained to you over and over why those stats don't come close to telling a complete story. That's why to truly have an informed opinion, you would need to analyze those 120 snaps. What was the playcall? What was the defensive coverage? Was he actually open but Rodgers was looking in the other direction. So many variables that make your evidence incomplete.
horse manure, you seem to need that, I don't, I made a generic opinion post and I can stand behind it, Touri was not targeted more because he didn't get open more, everything else is your made up drama
why are you comparing what happened in that disfunctional ST's gig with WR, why wont you consider all the other injury's for Touri even getting those 120 snaps, we where short on receivers Period, thats the only reason Touri was on the field, and then to only be targeted less then 8% of snap counts speaks volumns to me that Touri wasn't getting open Period who needs any other ifo to conclude Touri is very raw
the part about Doubs and Watson is also confusing, if Watson hadn't been hurt he would have over taken Lazard as the #1 no doubt in my mind about that, and if we had Wicks last year Touri wouldn't have ever played.
Touri was the last WR taqken in last years draft, and I will stand behind my yesterday prediction that Touri will be battling for our last receiver spot on the roster this season.
It's been explained to you over and over why those stats don't come close to telling a complete story. That's why to truly have an informed opinion, you would need to analyze those 120 snaps. What was the playcall? What was the defensive coverage? Was he actually open but Rodgers was looking in the other direction. So many variables that make your evidence incomplete.
horse manure, you seem to need that, I don't, I made a generic opinion post and I can stand behind it, Touri was not targeted more because he didn't get open more, everything else is your made up drama
Throwing phrases like "horse manure" or other subtle insults don't work on me and portray weakness in your argument.
again, last year was a easy season for any receiver we had to be a targeted receiver, we lost 20 games to our main 5 WR's, in 11 games Touri was targeted 10 times and caught 50% of them, so no, Touri was not getting open, and receivers that don't get open are not good decoys.
I hear a bunch of posters trying to get me to believe Touri is better then I think he is, and you have brought zero evidence to change my mind, I wont because those stats tell me all I need to know to predict Touri will battle simply to make this roster and surely wont be our #4 now can we move on?
What do you say to this when you claim snap count and targets is all you need to know??
"No, that is absolutely not the only evidence needed, for several reasons. First, some receivers are decoys or used to clear out defenders. They can run the perfect route, but will never get the ball. Second, there is only 1 ball to go around and a receiver can run the perfect route, but still not get the ball. Third, snap count does not differentiate between pass and run, for all we know Toure could have been on the field for 102 run snaps and 10 pass snaps, which would then indicate he ran 10 perfect routes and did not have an issue with wrong or poor routes. Lastly, as an example, Davante Adams played 50 snaps, was thrown the ball 5 times and caught 4 of them. We passed the ball 24 times that day. By the logic you are using Davante Adams in 2021 against the Bears ran 19 wrong or poor routes."
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
again, last year was a easy season for any receiver we had to be a targeted receiver, we lost 20 games to our main 5 WR's, in 11 games Touri was targeted 10 times and caught 50% of them, so no, Touri was not getting open, and receivers that don't get open are not good decoys.
I hear a bunch of posters trying to get me to believe Touri is better then I think he is, and you have brought zero evidence to change my mind, I wont because those stats tell me all I need to know to predict Touri will battle simply to make this roster and surely wont be our #4 now can we move on?
What do you say to this when you claim snap count and targets is all you need to know??
"No, that is absolutely not the only evidence needed, for several reasons. First, some receivers are decoys or used to clear out defenders. They can run the perfect route, but will never get the ball. Second, there is only 1 ball to go around and a receiver can run the perfect route, but still not get the ball. Third, snap count does not differentiate between pass and run, for all we know Toure could have been on the field for 102 run snaps and 10 pass snaps, which would then indicate he ran 10 perfect routes and did not have an issue with wrong or poor routes. Lastly, as an example, Davante Adams played 50 snaps, was thrown the ball 5 times and caught 4 of them. We passed the ball 24 times that day. By the logic you are using Davante Adams in 2021 against the Bears ran 19 wrong or poor routes."
thing is nothing you just said has any logic when ya consider the circumstances last season, and unless a receiver has success at something then decoying him wont have desired affect, Touri had 1 very good pass reception for about 30 yrds, on most plays I remember seeing he had to break off his route and scramble because the DB had him blanketed.
and just go and try and find vids to dis prove my opinions, it's tedious and time consuming..
we'll see who's right about Touri this fall.
again, last year was a easy season for any receiver we had to be a targeted receiver, we lost 20 games to our main 5 WR's, in 11 games Touri was targeted 10 times and caught 50% of them, so no, Touri was not getting open, and receivers that don't get open are not good decoys.
I hear a bunch of posters trying to get me to believe Touri is better then I think he is, and you have brought zero evidence to change my mind, I wont because those stats tell me all I need to know to predict Touri will battle simply to make this roster and surely wont be our #4 now can we move on?
What do you say to this when you claim snap count and targets is all you need to know??
"No, that is absolutely not the only evidence needed, for several reasons. First, some receivers are decoys or used to clear out defenders. They can run the perfect route, but will never get the ball. Second, there is only 1 ball to go around and a receiver can run the perfect route, but still not get the ball. Third, snap count does not differentiate between pass and run, for all we know Toure could have been on the field for 102 run snaps and 10 pass snaps, which would then indicate he ran 10 perfect routes and did not have an issue with wrong or poor routes. Lastly, as an example, Davante Adams played 50 snaps, was thrown the ball 5 times and caught 4 of them. We passed the ball 24 times that day. By the logic you are using Davante Adams in 2021 against the Bears ran 19 wrong or poor routes."
thing is nothing you just said has any logic when ya consider the circumstances last season, and unless a receiver has success at something then decoying him wont have desired affect, Touri had 1 very good pass reception for about 30 yrds, on most plays I remember seeing he had to break off his route and scramble because the DB had him blanketed.
and just go and try and find vids to dis prove my opinions, it's tedious and time consuming..
we'll see who's right about Touri this fall.
And that again, is the point. If you're going to stand behind a strong opinion, either put in the time to do your homework or don't stand behind your strong opinion....and if you decide to stand behind a strong opinion with incomplete supporting evidence, refrain from insulting people who disagree with you.
thugs win championships. 