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Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 17 Dec 2023 20:41
by texas
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑17 Dec 2023 18:48
Drj820 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2023 18:28
If Lafleur is ever tempted to blame Barry for anything related to the defense, he should first run to the bathroom, stand at the sink, and blame the guy first that he sees in the mirror
MLF has said on multiple occasions that this is the scheme he wants.
Unfortunately, it may not be the best version of the scheme he wants. I think what MLF wants is a scheme that limits big plays and limits possessions by forcing long drives. I think what MLF does not want is a version of a scheme that literally does not contest underneath passes. I'm sure he also would like to see some more variation. He has said multiple times, as well, that he would like the defense to be more aggressive.
That's why I think Staley and/or Evo are real possibilities as replacements next year even though things have not gone great for them this year. Barry was the guy closest to the scheme MLF wanted. But he has failed at it. And he has absolutely refused to adjust as the league has completely, and easily figured out how to succeed against this specific version of this defense.
PERSONALLY, I want a scheme that fits our personnel--specifically our CBs. This is less true now that Rasul has left, but we have CB talent--even if its still a bit of an unknown, like Stokes and Valentine. But both of those guys are man guys. Jaire is a better man guy. You can still play a 2-high safety, anti-big-play scheme with more man underneath. And that's what we have the players to do.
What drives me nuts is that Gutey and Barry are clearly not on the same page. When this scheme was the thing with the Rams, they had a bunch of low-budget CBs who were scheme fits. They invested more in other positions than CB because if you just want guys to play a zone, read, react, and make the tackle, you don't need to spend mega-bucks and first round picks on them. Day Two picks and rookie contracts will do. And that's the issue I need to see smoothed out. If MLF wants this scheme, he needs to work with Gutey to get the defensive personnel to match it. If the team wants to hold strong to its personnel style, then they need to force MLF away from this full-time-prevent-defense thing.
Yeah I think we give Staley a shot
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 17 Dec 2023 20:47
by Pugger
LombardiTime wrote: ↑17 Dec 2023 20:19
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑17 Dec 2023 18:48
Drj820 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2023 18:28
If Lafleur is ever tempted to blame Barry for anything related to the defense, he should first run to the bathroom, stand at the sink, and blame the guy first that he sees in the mirror
MLF has said on multiple occasions that this is the scheme he wants.
Unfortunately, it may not be the best version of the scheme he wants. I think what MLF wants is a scheme that limits big plays and limits possessions by forcing long drives. I think what MLF does not want is a version of a scheme that literally does not contest underneath passes. I'm sure he also would like to see some more variation. He has said multiple times, as well, that he would like the defense to be more aggressive.
That's why I think Staley and/or Evo are real possibilities as replacements next year even though things have not gone great for them this year. Barry was the guy closest to the scheme MLF wanted. But he has failed at it. And he has absolutely refused to adjust as the league has completely, and easily figured out how to succeed against this specific version of this defense.
PERSONALLY, I want a scheme that fits our personnel--specifically our CBs. This is less true now that Rasul has left, but we have CB talent--even if its still a bit of an unknown, like Stokes and Valentine. But both of those guys are man guys. Jaire is a better man guy. You can still play a 2-high safety, anti-big-play scheme with more man underneath. And that's what we have the players to do.
What drives me nuts is that Gutey and Barry are clearly not on the same page.
When this scheme was the thing with the Rams, they had a bunch of low-budget CBs who were scheme fits. They invested more in other positions than CB because if you just want guys to play a zone, read, react, and make the tackle, you don't need to spend mega-bucks and first round picks on them. Day Two picks and rookie contracts will do. And that's the issue I need to see smoothed out. If MLF wants this scheme, he needs to work with Gutey to get the defensive personnel to match it. If the team wants to hold strong to its personnel style, then they need to force MLF away from this full-time-prevent-defense thing.
I completely agree that Gutey and Barry (and probably MLF) are not on the same page.
But I''m rretty sure when "this scheme was the thing with the Rams" that LA had Jalen Ramsey playing CB.
And not only did LA send two 1st round picks to Jax for Ramsey, they paid him quite handsomely.
Now GB is paying Jaire a &%$@ as well, but he just has not produced anything like Ramsey did in LA.
It's hard to produce when you are banged up and your DC wants to implement a defense that doesn't fit your strengths when you are able.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 17 Dec 2023 21:17
by Labrev
I am gonna be blunt, the "tank" talk is asinine. And I am not opposed to tanking necessarily, but in this case, it's ridiculous.
We won 6 games. What is tanking going to get us? A high mid-1st-rounder, as opposed to a regular mid-1st-rounder?
We are not drafting a QB. We are not finishing Top 3 so forget about Harrison. We are probably out of range for Olu/Alt.
If we tank, we are just going to finish in the same range as we have three times already since 2018, around 12-16. The players available in that range are good, but not anything that catapults your team to another level.
Again, we were in that range three times already and are destined to finish in that range again.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 17 Dec 2023 21:32
by Drj820
Best case scenario for the packers is the jets continue to lose and saleh gets canned and comes to GB to be our DC for his buddy Lafleur.
Saleh is a good dc but a clown of a HC. I hope woody doesn’t give him a pass and just clears house.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 17 Dec 2023 21:34
by go pak go
Drj820 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2023 21:32
Best case scenario for the packers is the jets continue to lose and saleh gets canned and comes to GB to be our DC for his buddy Lafleur.
Saleh is a good dc but a clown of a HC. I hope woody doesn’t give him a pass and just clears house.
The Jets have two more winnable games.
Homes vs Washington and at New England. Hoping for positive vibes in Packerland.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 17 Dec 2023 21:35
by Drj820
If we hire Brandon Staley as DC Il lose my mind
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 17 Dec 2023 21:54
by Crazylegs Starks
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 17 Dec 2023 22:00
by Drj820
Who would even lead this meeting?
Jones has missed too much time to really bark at anyone
Kenny doesn’t seem to talk at all
Jaire seems to not like football anymore
Love is a first year starter and probably hadn’t earned the clout.
It would have been rasul, but he gone
Bakh is tweeting commentary’s and talking trash about the team.
Who is the alpha player to lead this meeting and rally the troops?
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 17 Dec 2023 22:22
by lupedafiasco
Gary would have to be the one to lead the meeting. He’s a leader.
I’ve said this before but this organization doesn’t like vocal leaders on their defense. Mike Daniels tried to bring some energy and bark and they sent him packing. Zadarius came in and literally changed the defensive culture and the players didn’t like it. They didn’t make him a captain and chose to give it to Clark instead who quite frankly just isnt that guy.
They have the mentality of their coach and DC. Just small and passive.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 17 Dec 2023 22:31
by Crazylegs Starks
Drj820 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2023 22:00
Who would even lead this meeting?
Jones has missed too much time to really bark at anyone
Kenny doesn’t seem to talk at all
Jaire seems to not like football anymore
Love is a first year starter and probably hadn’t earned the clout.
It would have been rasul, but he gone
Bakh is tweeting commentary’s and talking trash about the team.
Who is the alpha player to lead this meeting and rally the troops?
No clue! Jaire's been out too long and Campbell sucks.
It would be wild if Love did it. Crazy-high risk/reward there.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 17 Dec 2023 23:14
by texas
Drj820 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2023 21:32
Best case scenario for the packers is the jets continue to lose and saleh gets canned and comes to GB to be our DC for his buddy Lafleur.
Saleh is a good dc but a clown of a HC. I hope woody doesn’t give him a pass and just clears house.
idk, best case is this team gets their head out of their ass and plays like they did during that 3-week stretch against LAC, DET, and KC, we make the playoffs, go on a run, and win the Super Bowl.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 06:11
by Drj820
texas wrote: ↑17 Dec 2023 23:14
Drj820 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2023 21:32
Best case scenario for the packers is the jets continue to lose and saleh gets canned and comes to GB to be our DC for his buddy Lafleur.
Saleh is a good dc but a clown of a HC. I hope woody doesn’t give him a pass and just clears house.
idk, best case is this team gets their head out of their ass and plays like they did during that 3-week stretch against LAC, DET, and KC, we make the playoffs, go on a run, and win the Super Bowl.
Those things can happen and Barry can still be fired
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 06:15
by TheSkeptic
MY_TAKE wrote: ↑17 Dec 2023 15:45
I am starting to think that a healthy Christian Watson is the most important player on the packer offense. I think I was mostly wrong about him early in the year.
I agree with you. He draws attention away from all the other receivers. He forces the safeties to play deeper which opens up the running game.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 06:24
by packman114
The fire Barry talk should be legitimate. It's a different situation than Capers or Pettine because those guys at least had successful years as a DC in their coaching career. Barry is a good position coach but not a DC. I know you guys tell me there are no play calls on defense. But there are personnel packages and Blitz calls that the DC makes. That is Barry's weakness. He's very predictable in his calls.
This is not a difficult decision but it does call into question MLFs capability at being a HC.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 06:51
by APB
packman114 wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 06:24
He's very predictable in his calls.
That, to me, is his greatest weakness.
Take the recent example against Tampa. The Bucs set out to exploit Barry's assignment tendency of aligning a LB on the slot WR in certain personnel packages. Chris Godwin (along with other receivers) had a field day when Barry continued to expect Campbell to "just win the down" against clearly superior athletes. Over and over and over.
Tampa clearly spotted a tendency and got some early juice from it. That happens. But the fact they were able to exploit the advantage all game long without so much as a hint of an adjustment from Barry is just laughably incompetent.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 06:59
by TheSkeptic
Can anyone tell me why Preston Smith is on the field so much? He had 39 snaps. He produced no sacks and no tackles and just 1 assist.
By contrast, LVN had 3 tackles and an assist and a SACK in 26 snaps and Enagbare had 2 tackles and an assist and a SACK and a forced fumble in 25 snaps.
It seems to me that this is another reason to fire Barry, he puts the wrong player on the field too much.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 07:04
by APB
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 07:48
by Yoop
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 06:59
Can anyone tell me why Preston Smith is on the field so much? He had 39 snaps. He produced no sacks and no tackles and just 1 assist.
By contrast, LVN had 3 tackles and an assist and a SACK in 26 snaps and Enagbare had 2 tackles and an assist and a SACK and a forced fumble in 25 snaps.
It seems to me that this is another reason to fire Barry, he puts the wrong player on the field too much.
who else does Barry have that can drop into a zone out of a 50 front base front package? not defending Barry, and maybe others can do it, but I havn't seen LVN drop, or Gary, or Enegbare, imho Smith has to play till someone else can actually be a OLB, and do that stuff, your asking a bunch of DE's who have probably never been asked to drop and cover to do it.
And Smith has played pretty well all year.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 07:48
by APB
I fully expect to add Bryce Young's name to this list a week from today.
Re: Week 15 Post-Game: Bucs-34 Packers-20
Posted: 18 Dec 2023 08:27
by lupedafiasco
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑18 Dec 2023 06:59
Can anyone tell me why Preston Smith is on the field so much? He had 39 snaps. He produced no sacks and no tackles and just 1 assist.
By contrast, LVN had 3 tackles and an assist and a SACK in 26 snaps and Enagbare had 2 tackles and an assist and a SACK and a forced fumble in 25 snaps.
It seems to me that this is another reason to fire Barry, he puts the wrong player on the field too much.
This is a Lfaluer problem IMO. We have seen repeatedly throughout the years where the superior player is a rookie and we continue to go with underperforming vets for far to long.