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Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 14 Mar 2024 09:32
by Drj820
go pak go wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 09:03
OR
We let Lazard and MVS walk because by and large paying receivers a 2nd contract is stupid and an overpay for what you are getting which is exactly what a group on this forum is talking about. Keep drafting WRs so you don't have to pay $11 million for a middle of the road #2 WR which is where the market is for NFL WRs nowadays.
I very much align with the always draft new WRs and only sign 1 or 2 to a 2nd contract if they are absolutely worth it.
If MVS and Lazard were even “middle of the road #2 guys” they may be worth 11m. Luckily we had Gute who wanted no part of them after their rookie deal because they are WR4 or barely get to dress on game day guys. Lucky for them they played in a high power offense and got some stats, or were buddies with rodgers…and were able to get paid somewhere. They are awful tho, and they always were…especially Lazard
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 14 Mar 2024 09:33
by Labrev
I have no real interest in a WR for this team. There is some room for exception but in most cases, I am opposed.
9 times out of 10, yes, there is room for another good talent. Our WR room (and DL room at 3-tech) is the 1 out of 10 where, no, there really isn't.
First problem is it means that you are keeping some guys off the field way too much, which not only hurts the production you get out of them, but also their growth as players. Second, when they hit FA, you are likely forced to get rid of a good talent in their athletic prime. Third, opportunity cost exists. You keep using prime resources on a position which is not weak, others fall into disrepair.
I don't believe the draft is just about filling needs; it is also about creating strengths, but both taken to extremes leads to bad drafting.
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 14 Mar 2024 09:33
by Pckfn23
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 09:31
now everyone wants to draft receivers, this forum is very strange
Smilies expose tone of a message, members should consider them when reading a sentence, that was a joking type remark
And yet you said the same thing again and were not joking...
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 14 Mar 2024 09:38
by Yoop
Drj820 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 09:32
go pak go wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 09:03
OR
We let Lazard and MVS walk because by and large paying receivers a 2nd contract is stupid and an overpay for what you are getting which is exactly what a group on this forum is talking about. Keep drafting WRs so you don't have to pay $11 million for a middle of the road #2 WR which is where the market is for NFL WRs nowadays.
I very much align with the always draft new WRs and only sign 1 or 2 to a 2nd contract if they are absolutely worth it.
If MVS and Lazard were even “middle of the road #2 guys” they may be worth 11m. Luckily we had Gute who wanted no part of them after their rookie deal because they are WR4 or barely get to dress on game day guys. Lucky for them they played in a high power offense and got some stats, or were buddies with rodgers…and were able to get paid somewhere. They are awful tho, and they always were…especially Lazard
wha? are you insinuating we could have used better receivers in 2019, 20 and 21? we had top 5 offenses in every season?
people here will not admit those offenses could have been better, or better in games we lost, and thats one thing they will NEVER convince me of
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 14 Mar 2024 09:42
by Pckfn23
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 09:38
Drj820 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 09:32
go pak go wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 09:03
OR
We let Lazard and MVS walk because by and large paying receivers a 2nd contract is stupid and an overpay for what you are getting which is exactly what a group on this forum is talking about. Keep drafting WRs so you don't have to pay $11 million for a middle of the road #2 WR which is where the market is for NFL WRs nowadays.
I very much align with the always draft new WRs and only sign 1 or 2 to a 2nd contract if they are absolutely worth it.
If MVS and Lazard were even “middle of the road #2 guys” they may be worth 11m. Luckily we had Gute who wanted no part of them after their rookie deal because they are WR4 or barely get to dress on game day guys. Lucky for them they played in a high power offense and got some stats, or were buddies with rodgers…and were able to get paid somewhere. They are awful tho, and they always were…especially Lazard
wha? are you insinuating we could have used better receivers in 2019, 20 and 21? we had top 5 offenses in every season?
people here will not admit those offenses could have been better, or better in games we lost, and thats one thing they will NEVER convince me of
First, we didn't have a top 5 offense in each of those 3 seasons, only in 2020.
Second, EVERYONE wanted to draft another receiver during that time.
Third, of course everyone would like a better offense, but that does not happen in a vacuum.
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 14 Mar 2024 10:00
by Yoop
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 09:33
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 09:31
now everyone wants to draft receivers, this forum is very strange
Smilies expose tone of a message, members should consider them when reading a sentence, that was a joking type remark
And yet you said the same thing again and were not joking...
it was simple humor, getting called out for it ends the joking part of it
and YOU and others where very passive concerning getting a receiver during those years, mostly you bowed down to whatever our GM did.
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 14 Mar 2024 10:04
by Drj820
Nothing wrong with a 3rd-5th round WR draft pick. He could sit a whole year and learn, play when the inevitable injury happens, or truly beat out someone above him and make the packers better.
A lot of these young WRs that we love stayed dinged up. Watson, doubs, Reed…all got dinged up throughout the year
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 14 Mar 2024 10:10
by YoHoChecko
Drj820 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 10:04
Nothing wrong with a 3rd-5th round WR draft pick. He could sit a whole year and learn, play when the inevitable injury happens, or truly beat out someone above him and make the packers better.
A lot of these young WRs that we love stayed dinged up. Watson, doubs, Reed…all got dinged up throughout the year
Oh I'm the opposite. Either you get a guy who's just too good to pass up early (25 or 41) or you wait until the 7th for a PS kinda guy. We have a full roster of WRs. We don't need a developmental body or STer to fill it out.
I don't want a WR this year, but given the draft class, there's a good chance one is BPA and Gutey goes for it; and I've accepted that fate. But a mid-rounder who is basically assured a roster spot over Heath or DuBose or Melton but might not be as good as them right away would genuinely annoy me.
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 14 Mar 2024 10:10
by Pckfn23
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 10:00
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 09:33
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 09:31
now everyone wants to draft receivers, this forum is very strange
Smilies expose tone of a message, members should consider them when reading a sentence, that was a joking type remark
And yet you said the same thing again and were not joking...
it was simple humor, getting called out for it ends the joking part of it
and YOU and others where very passive concerning getting a receiver during those years, mostly you bowed down to whatever our GM did.
Very wrong!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 03:48
by CWIMM
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 08:58
and just for the record our receivers where not good enough unless you consider one all pro and a bunch of jags good enough, guess you do, so why did we rebuild that position, why did we let Lazard and MVS go so cheaply? simple, they where proven to be NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
Actually both Lazard and MVS didn't leave cheaply, both received a contract worth more than $10 million a season.
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 07:42
by BF004
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 10:10
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 10:00
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 09:33
And yet you said the same thing again and were not joking...
it was simple humor, getting called out for it ends the joking part of it
and YOU and others where very passive concerning getting a receiver during those years, mostly you bowed down to whatever our GM did.
Very wrong!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38
I did quite well that year.
First post in
BF004 wrote: ↑25 Mar 2020 16:35
Good idea!
I've loved Lamb since he was freshman.
Really do like Jeudy too.
Justin Jefferson gunna be a stud too. If he is there at 30, no brainer on my end.
And my last post. Last paragraph definitely makes this appropriate to share in it’s entirety
BF004 wrote: ↑23 Apr 2020 13:49
Finally got there, took a long time. But here are my final WR rankings.
They are ranked within their tiers. 8 guys with a first round grade, i.e., I would be happy with at 30. I was really really close with the group of Higgins, Ruggs, and Reagor going to round 2, really had a hard time splitting them, but they all just made the cut. 21 receivers I would be happy taking with a top 100 pick. That is pretty crazy.
If they aren't on the list, I either don't like them until Saturday or I didn't scout them.
Call me an idiot if you wish, but this list isn't for you, it's for me. Just like it actually written down so I can come back and see in 4 years how I did and don't just have to assume I always loved or hated a guy and I was always so much smarter than everyone else.
Blue
CeeDee Lamb
Jerry Jeudy
Red
Justin Jefferson
Brandon Aiyuk
1st
Tee Higgins
Jalen Reagor
Henry Ruggs
Denzel Mims
2nd
Bryan Edwards
Michael Pittman
Devin Duvernay
Laviska Shenault
Donovan Peoples-Jones
3rd
Chase Claypool
Quartney Davis
Antonio Gandy-Golden
Tyler Johnson
Van Jefferson
K.J. Hill
Joe Reed
Dezmon Patmon
I like Jeudy too much, still loved what I saw and now he tested, but he’s such a crazy head case. Don’t quite fault myself for that piece. But still no production. Also like Mims too much. I spent much of that offseason arguing with [mention]YoHoChecko[/mention] on Ruggs. Guess we don’t know what kind of product he’d have put on the field, but I just never loved him
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 07:52
by Yoop
I stand corrected.
still it was meant as a insider joke, shouldn't have used FORUM to describe the group, with currant issues, it was not a good choice of words.
my angst revolves around the opinion that the receivers we had where good enough, they obviously where not, I expect we'll differ on that opinion, and thats fine
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 07:55
by Yoop
CWIMM wrote: ↑15 Mar 2024 03:48
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 08:58
and just for the record our receivers where not good enough unless you consider one all pro and a bunch of jags good enough, guess you do, so why did we rebuild that position, why did we let Lazard and MVS go so cheaply? simple, they where proven to be NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
Actually both Lazard and MVS didn't leave cheaply, both received a contract worth more than $10 million a season.
true, my point though is that if they where so good we would have found a way to keep them, to my knowledge Guty didn't even try with either.
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 08:34
by TheSkeptic
Yoop wrote: ↑15 Mar 2024 07:55
CWIMM wrote: ↑15 Mar 2024 03:48
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Mar 2024 08:58
and just for the record our receivers where not good enough unless you consider one all pro and a bunch of jags good enough, guess you do, so why did we rebuild that position, why did we let Lazard and MVS go so cheaply? simple, they where proven to be NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
Actually both Lazard and MVS didn't leave cheaply, both received a contract worth more than $10 million a season.
true, my point though is that if they where so good we would have found a way to keep them, to my knowledge Guty didn't even try with either.
Correct, Gute did not even try. Because on a good day, neither Lazard nor MVS were more than a WR#3. MVS had the speed but he tracked the ball poorly and dropped too many passes. Lazard was fine as a possession receiver but did not have enough speed or quickness to be WR#2. Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks and Melton are all better than either of them. Fortunately no other team has Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks and Melton.
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 08:59
by Labrev
I believe we did try to talk to Lazard, but he was not interested in returning. He sounded a little bit slighted when talking about it to the media, like either he was unhappy that we did not lock him up sooner and did not even entertain coming back, or he did and our offer insulted him.
I don't remember about MVS. KC gave him $10m per year. I think we would have been interested in bringing him back if his market was cold.
Rodgers also said on Pat McAfee, before 2023 free agency, that wherever he plays next, he wanted it to be with Davante Adams and MVS (ironic, as we ended up not bringing back either, yet he returned knowing full well that Adams was a goner, so...).
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 09:27
by BF004
Another banger of mine from that thread
BF004 wrote: ↑23 Apr 2020 15:07
This will be an unpopular take, but Lazard is nothing more than Samkon Gado 2.0. LaDarius Gunter if you will. Kyler Fackrell getting 10 sacks.
Guy had his moments, but I have next to no expectations for him this year. I will even say I think it is more likely than not he doesn't make the roster.
The biggest thing in his favor is Aaron seems to trust him, just feel like Gute and LaFleur don't care about that, lol.
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 09:53
by Yoop
Labrev wrote: ↑15 Mar 2024 08:59
I believe we did try to talk to Lazard, but he was not interested in returning. He sounded a little bit slighted when talking about it to the media, like either he was unhappy that we did not lock him up sooner and did not even entertain coming back, or he did and our offer insulted him.
I don't remember about MVS. KC gave him $10m per year. I think we would have been interested in bringing him back if his market was cold.
Rodgers also said on Pat McAfee, before 2023 free agency, that wherever he plays next, he wanted it to be with Davante Adams and MVS (ironic, as we ended up not bringing back either, yet he returned knowing full well that Adams was a goner, so...).
as we know Rodgers opinion about ANYTHING has more to do with sounding right, then actually being right, no way Rodgers was happy that MVS dropped 50% of every pass Rodgers through his way, and obviously every QB in the league would like to play with Devante Adams.
again I have doubts that we offered either of those two a contract extension, if so it would have been much lower then the Jets or KC paid, and the only reason they did as well for us as they did, was the position was void of starter talent, once they went to the Jets and KC we have seen there actual value, aren't they both UFA now? I don't don't pay attention to that stuff as much as you and others.
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 09:56
by Yoop
BF004 wrote: ↑15 Mar 2024 09:27
Another banger of mine from that thread
BF004 wrote: ↑23 Apr 2020 15:07
This will be an unpopular take, but Lazard is nothing more than Samkon Gado 2.0. LaDarius Gunter if you will. Kyler Fackrell getting 10 sacks.
Guy had his moments, but I have next to no expectations for him this year. I will even say I think it is more likely than not he doesn't make the roster.
The biggest thing in his favor is Aaron seems to trust him, just feel like Gute and LaFleur don't care about that, lol.
OK< OK< OK
you wanted a receiver through out the years just as me, they and everyone else did.
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 09:58
by Labrev
Yoop wrote: ↑15 Mar 2024 09:53
as we know Rodgers opinion about ANYTHING has more to do with sounding right,
ALL evidence to the contrary. He speaks his mind, to a fault.
Re: Legal Tampering News and Rumors
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 10:35
by Yoop
Labrev wrote: ↑15 Mar 2024 09:58
Yoop wrote: ↑15 Mar 2024 09:53
as we know Rodgers opinion about ANYTHING has more to do with sounding right,
ALL evidence to the contrary.
what evidence would that be? Rodgers had his mouth open, thats all the evidence I need to know he was spouting whatever he thought would pacify his listeners.
thats who Rodgers is, has become.
the only reason Rodgers wanted Lazard to become a Jet was experience with Rodgers the QB, doubt he's even been out to diner with Lazard, or MVS years back either, or Allison, Kumerow etc.
Rodgers has a track record of caring about a person as long as that person is useful in some way, once thats over there is a parting of ways.