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Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 15:40
by Captain_Ben
I was originally in favor of the "combination of 1 and 2" idea, but after reading the thread I've come to support the idea of bringing back the Podium as it was. I agree that there should be a place where people can discuss innocuous everyday life kind of topics politics-free, much like what was found in Cheesehead Chatter in the old forum. I think that that would be impossible unless there is a forum devoted exclusively to political talk, however.
So I say bring back the Podium.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 16:02
by williewasgreat
I find this thread to be quite interesting. Not much football to discuss right now, so I came here. I have never participated in any area of the board but Packer stuff. I looked at the other forums a couple of times over the years, but I am not interested into getting into political discussions as they are a HUGE waste of time. People don't often change their minds in these matters. I honestly don't care one way or the other about having such a forum. However, I will note that I have always sensed some of the Packer dialogues contained personal attacks that I couldn't ascertain where the animosity came from. I didn't see how the level of hostility could have come from the Packer discussions. Not being a follower of the political forum, I never knew for sure if that was the cause of this sometimes, but I always suspected as much. We are human and as such, personal feelings often carry over into other arenas even if we don't consciously realize it.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 17:05
by texas
williewasgreat wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020 16:02
I find this thread to be quite interesting. Not much football to discuss right now, so I came here. I have never participated in any area of the board but Packer stuff. I looked at the other forums a couple of times over the years, but I am not interested into getting into political discussions as they are a HUGE waste of time. People don't often change their minds in these matters. I honestly don't care one way or the other about having such a forum. However, I will note that I have always sensed some of the Packer dialogues contained personal attacks that I couldn't ascertain where the animosity came from. I didn't see how the level of hostility could have come from the Packer discussions. Not being a follower of the political forum, I never knew for sure if that was the cause of this sometimes, but I always suspected as much. We are human and as such, personal feelings often carry over into other arenas even if we don't consciously realize it.
Well, I wouldn't say it's necessarily the Podium's fault- this forum has been around in some shape or form for over a decade and a lot of people have gotten into it over the years, both with Packers Talk and unrelated stuff.
I largely avoided the Podium during the last Packers season (and often during football season in general most years). However, right now there are a lot of political topics that I'm itching to discuss, that I can't discuss on social media, so I would probably be posting a lot more now.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 17:36
by Pckfn23
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 18:33
by Drj820
If for some reason you thought your original post didn’t post correctly and that’s why you reposted it, it posted correctly.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 19:12
by APB
I sense there’s a desire to discuss these topics among people you know and are familiar with, even if it is just acquaintances we know from this digital realm. You know, sort of like a convo you’d have with one of your amigos at the local pub.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 19:47
by Pckfn23
Drj820 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020 18:33
If for some reason you thought your original post didn’t post correctly and that’s why you reposted it, it posted correctly.
Texas had an itch to talk politics, so was making sure that he had an outlet and saw these, as they got buried on the last page.
APB wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020 19:12
I sense there’s a desire to discuss these topics among people you know and are familiar with, even if it is just acquaintances we know from this digital realm. You know, sort of like a convo you’d have with one of your amigos at the local pub.
Any online discussion is different than a face to face discussion. Many many examples of people saying things online that they wouldn't say to someone's face. Digital interactions take the human element out of it because we can't see faces. We can't see reactions. We can't have a real time conversation. We have found that to be true here in this very forum and especially true in the last one. Common decency is replaced with maliciousness. It would be wonderful if we could handle it, but we know we can't. I strive in this new forum to not instigate with mocking, snarky comments or name calling, but will return in kind if pushed. I failed in that one night after a handful of beers.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 20:04
by Gunzaan
In that last statement, you should replace all of those “we” words with the word “I.”
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 20:39
by Pckfn23
In that last statement, you should replace all of those “we” words with the word “I.”
And here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Someone taking a discussion personal and being inflammatory for no other reason than to be inflammatory. Happened all the time in the Podium and will happen here as we all can see. This may be a very small and fairly harmless example, but it definitely won't stop there. It never did.
As I stated above, digital discussions like this take the humanity out of it and people say things they would not in a real conversation. Unfortunately, some would either way. Some don't even realize what they are saying is snarky, mocking, or insulting. Some, unfortunately, do. It's very evident in this one off comments that some are known for. It has nothing to do with actually having a discussion. They aren't adding anything relevant or constructive.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 22:33
by wallyuwl
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020 20:39
In that last statement, you should replace all of those “we” words with the word “I.”
And here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Someone taking a discussion personal and being inflammatory for no other reason than to be inflammatory. Happened all the time in the Podium and will happen here as we all can see. This may be a very small and fairly harmless example, but it definitely won't stop there. It never did.
As I stated above, digital discussions like this take the humanity out of it and people say things they would not in a real conversation. Unfortunately, some would either way. Some don't even realize what they are saying is snarky, mocking, or insulting. Some, unfortunately, do. It's very evident in this one off comments that some are known for. It has nothing to do with actually having a discussion. They aren't adding anything relevant or constructive.
I don't agree with your interpretation at all of guzs comment.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 22:34
by Captain_Ben
I don't think the personal insults/snarkiness/condescending comments were as serious of an issue as they are being made out to have been. On the contrary, I always appreciated this subforum because it was one of the few places left online that permitted a free flow of ideas, information, and opposing viewpoints.
I even appreciated Yoop's posts, even if they were sometimes insulting to me personally.
As APB mentioned- after years of reading each others' posts, there is a degree of familiarity among us. For me, the most appealing aspect of The Podium is the opportunity to present ideas and have them challenged/supported by familiar people whose opinions I respect. Sometimes I'd rather have a well-informed anonymous person whom I still kind of know tell me why I'm wrong than a real-life friend or family member.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 22:50
by Pckfn23
wallyuwl wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020 22:33
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020 20:39
In that last statement, you should replace all of those “we” words with the word “I.”
And here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Someone taking a discussion personal and being inflammatory for no other reason than to be inflammatory. Happened all the time in the Podium and will happen here as we all can see. This may be a very small and fairly harmless example, but it definitely won't stop there. It never did.
As I stated above, digital discussions like this take the humanity out of it and people say things they would not in a real conversation. Unfortunately, some would either way. Some don't even realize what they are saying is snarky, mocking, or insulting. Some, unfortunately, do. It's very evident in this one off comments that some are known for. It has nothing to do with actually having a discussion. They aren't adding anything relevant or constructive.
I don't agree with your interpretation at all of guzs comment.
Oh really, please explain? I without a doubt am not the only one who holds this opinion.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 23:11
by Gunzaan
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020 20:39
In that last statement, you should replace all of those “we” words with the word “I.”
And here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Someone taking a discussion personal and being inflammatory for no other reason than to be inflammatory. Happened all the time in the Podium and will happen here as we all can see. This may be a very small and fairly harmless example, but it definitely won't stop there. It never did.
As I stated above, digital discussions like this take the humanity out of it and people say things they would not in a real conversation. Unfortunately, some would either way. Some don't even realize what they are saying is snarky, mocking, or insulting. Some, unfortunately, do. It's very evident in this one off comments that some are known for. It has nothing to do with actually having a discussion. They aren't adding anything relevant or constructive.
I was merely pointing out that you were making blanket statements about how the forum as a whole feels when you are the one who feels that way. I was showing you that you should replace the “we” with “I” so that your statement was more accurate.
You are hyper-sensitive, and your response is basically evidence of this. Carry on though.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 16 Jun 2020 23:32
by Pckfn23
Gunzaan wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020 23:11
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020 20:39
In that last statement, you should replace all of those “we” words with the word “I.”
And here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Someone taking a discussion personal and being inflammatory for no other reason than to be inflammatory. Happened all the time in the Podium and will happen here as we all can see. This may be a very small and fairly harmless example, but it definitely won't stop there. It never did.
As I stated above, digital discussions like this take the humanity out of it and people say things they would not in a real conversation. Unfortunately, some would either way. Some don't even realize what they are saying is snarky, mocking, or insulting. Some, unfortunately, do. It's very evident in this one off comments that some are known for. It has nothing to do with actually having a discussion. They aren't adding anything relevant or constructive.
I was merely pointing out that you were making blanket statements about how the forum as a whole feels when you are the one who feels that way. I was showing you that you should replace the “we” with “I” so that your statement was more accurate.
You are hyper-sensitive, and your response is basically evidence of this. Carry on though.
Well, I wasn't talking about the forum as a whole I was talking generally about human nature. It's something that I have studied as it is part of my career. We as humans do not treat others the same when we can't see people, phone or over computer. Unfortunately, instead of talking about the subject at hand you went for personal mockery and again you are doing the same. A small thing and no skin off my back, but it goes to show exactly what I have talked about. People can not usually handle digital disputes and remain civil. Don't like what a person says, personal ridicule to discredit them. Much easier.
For example in this situation, instead of what was said, something along the lines of, "I do not believe the forum as a whole feels that way.". More to the point, less condescension.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 17 Jun 2020 01:13
by texas
Gunzaan wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020 20:04
In that last statement, you should replace all of those “we” words with the word “I.”
Lol that's what I was thinking
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 17 Jun 2020 01:17
by texas
APB wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020 19:12
I sense there’s a desire to discuss these topics among people you know and are familiar with, even if it is just acquaintances we know from this digital realm. You know, sort of like a convo you’d have with one of your amigos at the local pub.
Yes this is correct. I have no desire to re-learn an entirely new forum with new people when we already have a perfectly good one. Plus most of those look like partisan forums, unlike the mix we have in the Podium.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 17 Jun 2020 01:29
by texas
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020 22:34
I don't think the personal insults/snarkiness/condescending comments were as serious of an issue as they are being made out to have been. On the contrary, I always appreciated this subforum because it was one of the few places left online that permitted a free flow of ideas, information, and opposing viewpoints.
I even appreciated Yoop's posts, even if they were sometimes insulting to me personally.
Yeah this is what I was getting at when I posted about inflammatory rhetoric and some people disagreed. I think what looks to them like animosity isn't animosity between the people involved, maybe because they are less inclined towards lively debate.
There is something great about not having to carefully parse words on a semi-anonymous forum and instead be able to freely say what you think. It probably brings out better discussion because everyone can largely be honest.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that it's generally the center-left people who are the strongest opposed to another Podium.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 17 Jun 2020 02:15
by Pckfn23
A complete and utter misrepresentation of what the Podium was. It was a right echo chamber where almost anything that was center left was chased away through very personal attacks, condescension, name calling, and mockery. There was rarely ever any real debate or discussion, but almost exclusively a thump your chest acknowledgement of "greatness." The biggest problem is some treat this as semi-anonymous and completely hide behind it while others have fully bared their identities to make for a more inclusive community. In doing this there have been attacks using information about people's personal lives. While some might believe that the old Podium was fine and dandy, it was far from it.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 17 Jun 2020 08:30
by Drj820
texas wrote: ↑17 Jun 2020 01:13
Gunzaan wrote: ↑16 Jun 2020 20:04
In that last statement, you should replace all of those “we” words with the word “I.”
Lol that's what I was thinking
sounded that way to me too. I havent heard much from other people that have such a problem with it. Maybe i missed it.
Re: Future of political talk on the forum
Posted: 17 Jun 2020 10:05
by Scott4Pack
When I first joined this forum several years ago, I was shocked to learn of the Podium. I never would've thought that there might be an avenue here for social and political discussion on a FOOTBALL forum. I'm not against it. I'm not really for it either. But it seemed like an oil and water type of thing. As Salmar mentioned, it would take a lot of work to make it work.
That said, conversation about important topics can be difficult enough with others when you are face to face. Because when you're eating or drinking together, you usually actually LISTEN to each other more. But in a online forum, how much does that REALLY occur?
I say continue with it if you want. But I'd encourage every person who participates in it to make a HIGH priority to be a reconciler with each other person. Find ways to agree with each other and encourage each other before you hash out the other stuff. First and foremost, we're all creations made in God's image and we need to GIVE respect to each other - unless the other is a Bear fan. (Just kidding!)
:-)