Packers Huddle

APB wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2024 07:19

Also, since we're on the topic of what we hate about officiating, I can't stand the constant flags over procedural or incidental nonsense that has absolutely nothing to do with play outcome. It was on full display this weekend and every weekend this season.

A WR not lining up on the LOS or "covering" the tackle at the snap. Conversely, too many players on the LOS. A motion player not being "set" for 1 complete second prior to the snap. Or even a "hold" on a player after the ball carrier is already well past the play. Things like that.

It's gotten to a point where it's a continual interruption in the flow of the game and it kills drive after drive for a team. Officials have become celebrities because of the amount of air time they're receiving on Sundays. It's so annoying to watch.

Oh I'm the opposite. I can't stand that it's gotten so lax. The procedural "these are the rules; well-coached teams should be following them consistently" things are where you CAN achieve officiating consistency and coaching evaluation. The jumping before the snap by the tackles, the moving forward during motion, the lining up incorrectly... those are the things that NEED to be enforced. The things in live action you can never call consistently because each occasion is a little different; we'll never achieve parity there. But teams need to be following the rules of how the game is allowed to be played pre-snap and knowing how to line up correctly. The delay thing that Tirico points out I agree with as well. It's not that I want more procedural; flags. I want them called enough that coaches and teams have a big benefit to coaching to the rules and understanding all the nuances.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2024 07:51

APB wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2024 07:19

Also, since we're on the topic of what we hate about officiating, I can't stand the constant flags over procedural or incidental nonsense that has absolutely nothing to do with play outcome. It was on full display this weekend and every weekend this season.

A WR not lining up on the LOS or "covering" the tackle at the snap. Conversely, too many players on the LOS. A motion player not being "set" for 1 complete second prior to the snap. Or even a "hold" on a player after the ball carrier is already well past the play. Things like that.

It's gotten to a point where it's a continual interruption in the flow of the game and it kills drive after drive for a team. Officials have become celebrities because of the amount of air time they're receiving on Sundays. It's so annoying to watch.

Oh I'm the opposite. I can't stand that it's gotten so lax. The procedural "these are the rules; well-coached teams should be following them consistently" things are where you CAN achieve officiating consistency and coaching evaluation. The jumping before the snap by the tackles, the moving forward during motion, the lining up incorrectly... those are the things that NEED to be enforced. The things in live action you can never call consistently because each occasion is a little different; we'll never achieve parity there. But teams need to be following the rules of how the game is allowed to be played pre-snap and knowing how to line up correctly. The delay thing that Tirico points out I agree with as well. It's not that I want more procedural; flags. I want them called enough that coaches and teams have a big benefit to coaching to the rules and understanding all the nuances.

I just go by what Vince Lombardi preached .............. DISCIPLINE. This was before the days of resetting the position of the players post-huddle. If the offense wants to move around pre-snap then its the offenses responsibility to follow the rules. FWIW, I'm pretty much with Yoho on this one.

All the media is going crazy for the Lions trick play, yesterday. One, for a team that sucked for so long they seem to like to rub it in people's faces. Kind of felt like they were telling the Bears you suck and we can do anything against you. Second, payback is a bitch as they say. Although when we get stuffed on 3rd and 2, I kinda wish we had some of those plays!

packman114 wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2024 10:43

All the media is going crazy for the Lions trick play, yesterday. One, for a team that sucked for so long they seem to like to rub it in people's faces. Kind of felt like they were telling the Bears you suck and we can do anything against you. Second, payback is a bitch as they say. Although when we get stuffed on 3rd and 2, I kinda wish we had some of those plays!

Eh, that's all fun stuff. I love trick plays. I love deception. I love the Packers being the inspiration for it. Have at it. There's nothing "rubbing it in" anyone's face to run that play.

I have absolutely no problem with teams running up the score. I would do the same thing. And as the opponent you should want the other team passing the ball. It gives you a chance to get into the game if you can make a play and it keeps the clock from ticking if you play well.

But if you suck and you can’t stop it, get good. The Lions have built an attitude and that’s we are better than you and we want to embarrass you.

It was a 13-point game early in the 3rd quarter. No score was being run up. Two score games with more than a quarter remaining are open playbook, free game time periods. So even if you don't like running up the score, there was nothing to see there.

For the most part I'm against running up the score. Against rivals it's different. There is a point where some teams will say it's over lets get out of here and on to next week. But if you are known to try and embarrass teams they are never going to shut down. The are going to fight hard the whole game and the chances go up for cheap shots that might damage a piece you need.

Cdragon wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2024 11:58

For the most part I'm against running up the score. Against rivals it's different. There is a point where some teams will say it's over lets get out of here and on to next week. But if you are known to try and embarrass teams they are never going to shut down. The are going to fight hard the whole game and the chances go up for cheap shots that might damage a piece you need.

The best net points is a tiebreaker. So, as far as I'm concerned, you score when you can. Period.

Best net points in conference games.
Best net points in all games.
Best net touchdowns in all games.

When scoring points isn't used in tiebreaking, then I'll be concerned with not running up the score.

https://www.nfl.com/standings/tie-breaking-procedures

I do not understand how a trick play in a game that had 0 4th quarter points scored has spawned a conversation about running up the score.

There is no such thing as running up the score with 27 minutes left in an NFL game.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2024 07:51

APB wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2024 07:19

Also, since we're on the topic of what we hate about officiating, I can't stand the constant flags over procedural or incidental nonsense that has absolutely nothing to do with play outcome. It was on full display this weekend and every weekend this season.

A WR not lining up on the LOS or "covering" the tackle at the snap. Conversely, too many players on the LOS. A motion player not being "set" for 1 complete second prior to the snap. Or even a "hold" on a player after the ball carrier is already well past the play. Things like that.

It's gotten to a point where it's a continual interruption in the flow of the game and it kills drive after drive for a team. Officials have become celebrities because of the amount of air time they're receiving on Sundays. It's so annoying to watch.

Oh I'm the opposite. I can't stand that it's gotten so lax. The procedural "these are the rules; well-coached teams should be following them consistently" things are where you CAN achieve officiating consistency and coaching evaluation. The jumping before the snap by the tackles, the moving forward during motion, the lining up incorrectly... those are the things that NEED to be enforced. The things in live action you can never call consistently because each occasion is a little different; we'll never achieve parity there. But teams need to be following the rules of how the game is allowed to be played pre-snap and knowing how to line up correctly. The delay thing that Tirico points out I agree with as well. It's not that I want more procedural; flags. I want them called enough that coaches and teams have a big benefit to coaching to the rules and understanding all the nuances.

My point is that the formation penalties being called have no impact on play outcome.

Why have such stringent rules dictating procedural alignment of players in the first place? What value does the rule bring? To me, it's just some unnecessary administrative requirement that has no real bearing on a play but the players must adhere to it or they'll be penalized.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2024 12:20

I do not understand how a trick play in a game that had 0 4th quarter points scored has spawned a conversation about running up the score.

There is no such thing as running up the score with 27 minutes left in an NFL game.

Frankly I think it's nearly impossible to be accused of "running up the score" with anything more than 5:00 in a game. Even with a 24 point lead with 5:00 to go, a team can score a TD quick, get the 2 point conversion and you are only 2 onsides from a tie.

MN was down 33 to 0 at halftime two years ago and won. Green Bay was down 23 points at halftime in 2013 in Dallas and won.

Green Bay was down 17 points to the Saints in 2023 and came back and won and even screwed up a drive in the 4th quarter doing it.

Like teams can erase deficits quickly. No lead is ever safe.

APB wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2024 13:01

My point is that the formation penalties being called have no impact on play outcome.

Why have such stringent rules dictating procedural alignment of players in the first place? What value does the rule bring? To me, it's just some unnecessary administrative requirement that has no real bearing on a play but the players must adhere to it or they'll be penalized.

I actually very strongly disagree. Formation has everything to do with play outcomes. Most defenses have rules about coverages that utilize things about working outside to inside among eligible receivers. Lining up off the line versus on the line changes how the release can be defended. Motioning sideways versus forward creates advantages or disadvantages.

It all tells a defense how to play against a given formation or alignment. It's all thee for a purpose.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2024 12:20

I do not understand how a trick play in a game that had 0 4th quarter points scored has spawned a conversation about running up the score.

There is no such thing as running up the score with 27 minutes left in an NFL game.

there is no better time to build team chemistry, perfect some plays, or try new ones than during actual games.

The Saints were always accused of running up the score, but IMO, most of that was perfecting that passing attack. Developing timing takes repetition, and no one ever complained when we would run it up a little. Of course, our defenses over the years could keep Bears games close.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2024 13:14

It's all there for a purpose.

Indeed-
And the formation stuff is pretty important for the Refs too. I understand APB's complaint, it seems ticky-tacky to call all these pre-snap indiscretions - but they aren't that difficult to learn and most players manage to pull it off. Same with reporting as eligible- not a difficult task and most players do it the right way. We are so far removed from the WHY of these rules that's its not unreasonable to gripe about them .

But they all have a purpose as noted above. If I find myself with extra time over the holidays, maybe I'll find a tutorial that explains them all.
Stuff like why does the OT have to be covered up ? Why do we need 6 on the LOS ? Why can an RB move forward and re-set from the backfield ?

The NFL used to be pretty uptight about player numbers too- OL was between 50-79, RBs were between 20-49 etc and some of that was to make it easier on the Refs to see when a guy was illegally downfield. In the heat of the moment, the jersey number told them who was who. I will say this too- the NFL tweaks rules every year ( sometimes too much) but none of the pre-snap stuff ever gets challenged - because there are legitimate football reasons for those guidelines.

BSA wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2024 13:25

The NFL used to be pretty uptight about player numbers too- OL was between 50-79, RBs were between 20-49 etc and some of that was to make it easier on the Refs to see when a guy was illegally downfield. In the heat of the moment, the jersey number told them who was who. I will say this too- the NFL tweaks rules every year ( sometimes too much) but none of the pre-snap stuff ever gets challenged - because there are legitimate football reasons for those guidelines.

And fittingly given my other stance, I think we've moved too far on numbers, as well. It's not just aesthetics. It's a quick understanding of what general type of athlete player body shape might be there. I love having number rules. I hate the free for all. I support a middle ground.

Running up the score is an absurd thing to claim anyone is doing. There are so many statistics and incentives on the line. Every team should be looking to do as much as they can quite frankly. There’s so much money on the line to just sit back and not try.

APB wrote: ↑

23 Dec 2024 13:01

My point is that the formation penalties being called have no impact on play outcome.

Why have such stringent rules dictating procedural alignment of players in the first place? What value does the rule bring? To me, it's just some unnecessary administrative requirement that has no real bearing on a play but the players must adhere to it or they'll be penalized.

What you really want, then, is for the powers-that-be to eliminate those penalties from the book. Sell that opinion that they don't affect the game, and remove them. Problem solved.

I'm not accusing them of running up the score. Just an observation on how far they have come. That play yesterday was a big middle finger to the Bears and shows no respect. Not the fact they scored but how they did it. They are starting to take it to another level and there will be payback one day.

Here is an example of what happens when you change alignment and number rules: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-11_offense