2025 Jordan Love

[texas]

I think Love is the guy. I think he has elite arm talent. He was battling nagging injuries all year, his WRs completely let him down, and he was still good.

His main problems are 1) too many boneheaded throws into triple coverage; 2) doesn't run the ball enough. Neither of these problems are ones that aren't solveable. Also, both of these problems are ones where it would be bad to go too far in the other direction (i.e. Rodgers' fatal flaw was that he was too conservative and didn't make enough boneheaded throws into triple coverage, and we do not want Love being an "instincts QB" a la Justin Fields).

He's not Rodgers and never will be. He is closer to Favre, except his arm isn't quite as strong despite having the hardest recorded throw on record since they started measuring (this year's TD to I think it was Kraft in the Houston game maybe?). He is probably worse than either Favre or Rodgers, but he could end up winning more than either of them because MLF is a better coach than Holmgren or MM I think.

[Crazylegs Starks]

[lupedafiasco]

As for the Rodgers deal I have said this multiple times. If you had the conviction to take Love you needed to stand by that pick and just move on with Love. I still believe that was a bad pick given the circumstances of where this team was and how close they were to winning in all but the minute Gutenbumst drafted Love he needed to commit to his plan of moving forward with a new QB. He tried to have his cake and eat it too by planning for the future and trying to win a SB and when you try to do both you end up with nothing.

Given his track record of 1st round picks, I doubt that whoever he picked would have put us over the top.

I think the Love pick was a home run even if he turned out to be a bust, because it lit a fire under Rodgers and provoked him into giving a &%$@ again. The result was 2 MVP seasons.

I think Love had very little to do with Rodgers returning to form. Rodgers "down years" in 2018 and 2019 were mostly due to factors I have pointed out time and time again. 2018 you just had a really bad roster in conjunction with a really bad scheme, that being MMs last season. Lafleur walks in and brought a new scheme. It would be expected for that to be a down year. Rodgers had only ever known one scheme his entire career and he still had a relatively bad supporting cast with it being just Adams and a bunch of bums. Year 2 we exploded offensively much like we have seen from a lot of the McVay/Shannahan tree coaches. Year 1 always looks a little rough and year 2 we see a lot of offensive success. Gutenbumst didnt have the foresight or self-awareness to realize the Jimmy Graham signing, the atrocious brain-dead Billy Turder deal, and drafting 3 &%$@ WRs in Jmon Moore, MVS, and ESB was not going to be enough to allow Rodgers to cook. Instead we ended up with Love who did nothing for our championship push except add once to the loss column. The logical move was to either take a WR, ILB, or DT. Oddly enough we went that entire draft only coming away with Kamal Martin at LB in the 5th round while our 3 weakest positions went mostly untouched.

[texas]

As for the Rodgers deal I have said this multiple times. If you had the conviction to take Love you needed to stand by that pick and just move on with Love. I still believe that was a bad pick given the circumstances of where this team was and how close they were to winning in all but the minute Gutenbumst drafted Love he needed to commit to his plan of moving forward with a new QB. He tried to have his cake and eat it too by planning for the future and trying to win a SB and when you try to do both you end up with nothing.

Given his track record of 1st round picks, I doubt that whoever he picked would have put us over the top.

I think the Love pick was a home run even if he turned out to be a bust, because it lit a fire under Rodgers and provoked him into giving a &%$@ again. The result was 2 MVP seasons.

I think Love had very little to do with Rodgers returning to form. Rodgers "down years" in 2018 and 2019 were mostly due to factors I have pointed out time and time again. 2018 you just had a really bad roster in conjunction with a really bad scheme, that being MMs last season. Lafleur walks in and brought a new scheme. It would be expected for that to be a down year. Rodgers had only ever known one scheme his entire career and he still had a relatively bad supporting cast with it being just Adams and a bunch of bums. Year 2 we exploded offensively much like we have seen from a lot of the McVay/Shannahan tree coaches. Year 1 always looks a little rough and year 2 we see a lot of offensive success. Gutenbumst didnt have the foresight or self-awareness to realize the Jimmy Graham signing, the atrocious brain-dead Billy Turder deal, and drafting 3 &%$@ WRs in Jmon Moore, MVS, and ESB was not going to be enough to allow Rodgers to cook. Instead we ended up with Love who did nothing for our championship push except add once to the loss column. The logical move was to either take a WR, ILB, or DT. Oddly enough we went that entire draft only coming away with Kamal Martin at LB in the 5th round while our 3 weakest positions went mostly untouched.

I disagree. If you listen to Rodgers talk about it, he got very emotional about us picking Love. Sort of an existential crisis. Not a very big leap to assume that he changed in direct response to his new reality.

[lupedafiasco]

I think the only emotional reaction Rodgers had was first just recognizing the finality of his time in GB. You only make that pick if you are moving on from Rodgers and he’s more than smart enough to know that.

Second is anger. After the draft he’s talking about he thought the team would pick a WR or LB which was the logical path to take. And even after being the MVP and going to the NFCC he still asked to be traded. Then he tried to take matters into his to his own hands and force the team to trade for Cobb, which was the right thought process in terms of adding a WR but the wrong player. Cobb was done. We need a better player at WR and that’s what really killed us against the Buccs and the 9ers. Lazard was an atrocious WR2 and it should have been embarrassing for a GM to walk him out there as such.

[NCF]

which was the right thought process in terms of adding a WR but the wrong player. Cobb was done. We need a better player at WR and that’s what really killed us against the Buccs and the 9ers.

I don't think it was the right thought process, at all. He wanted a buddy, not a WR. That's where he went wrong.

[lupedafiasco]

which was the right thought process in terms of adding a WR but the wrong player. Cobb was done. We need a better player at WR and that’s what really killed us against the Buccs and the 9ers.

I don't think it was the right thought process, at all. He wanted a buddy, not a WR. That's where he went wrong.

Just not true. Everyone knows we needed a WR and Rodgers knew it best. History even proves it. Moore, MVS, and ESB all ended up being pretty bad players. Lazard was terrible and was the 2nd biggest reason we lost to the Buccs in the NFCC because of his mistakes in that game. It was Adams and a bunch of bums. Lets not forget Amari Rodgers trash ass. Rodgers had to take the WR position into his own hands because of managerial incompetence. Somehow 4 years later we are dealing with the same problem but worse... because of the same managerial incompetence at the same position.

[Yoop]

which was the right thought process in terms of adding a WR but the wrong player. Cobb was done. We need a better player at WR and that’s what really killed us against the Buccs and the 9ers.

I don't think it was the right thought process, at all. He wanted a buddy, not a WR. That's where he went wrong.

come on, seriously NCF?

2017 there was an article where Rodgers said we needed change, and follow up reports of beat writers explaining what Rodgers meant, which basically were that McCarthy's spread vertical passing attack was not working due to lack of receivers that fit that passing attack. He did another interview in 2018 saying basically the same thing, also added we need to run the ball more

Rodgers didn't want a buddy more than he just wanted talent, and we both know the buddy comments translate to someone with experience with Rodgers so chemistry is built in, there on the same page.

Lupe has nailed this to a tee, Rodgers goals in the years 2019 through 2021 was to win a SB, and he devoted everything to do so, that should not be in question here, so obvious that he new his time here was limited once Guty didn't move up for one of the top receivers in that draft class and took Love, Rodgers post draft comments of, well all the receivers were taken, was Rodgers simply not rocking the boat, IMHO thats all that was, and Rodgers was actually very upset, why wouldn't he be? the only receiver he had left was Adams that actually produced like a starter.

[Yoop]

which was the right thought process in terms of adding a WR but the wrong player. Cobb was done. We need a better player at WR and that’s what really killed us against the Buccs and the 9ers.

I don't think it was the right thought process, at all. He wanted a buddy, not a WR. That's where he went wrong.

Just not true. Everyone knows we needed a WR and Rodgers knew it best. History even proves it. Moore, MVS, and ESB all ended up being pretty bad players. Lazard was terrible and was the 2nd biggest reason we lost to the Buccs in the NFCC because of his mistakes in that game. It was Adams and a bunch of bums. Lets not forget Amari Rodgers trash ass. Rodgers had to take the WR position into his own hands because of managerial incompetence. Somehow 4 years later we are dealing with the same problem but worse... because of the same managerial incompetence at the same position.

agreed, if there is one thing this forum should agree on, it's that Guty is a QB abuser, neglected the needs of Rodgers, and started his protege with a room full of inexperienced noodle head rookies

[lupedafiasco]

agreed, if there is one thing this forum should agree on, it's that Guty is a QB abuser, neglected the needs of Rodgers, and started his protege with a room full of inexperienced noodle head rookies

I dont mind throwing rookies at a QB. Granted they arent as seasoned as a vet so they are missing nuances but you have to give a QB some talent. Gutenbumst tried but he continuosly misses the mark. Look at the WRs drafted.

JMon Moore - Trash and out of the league before the end of his rookie deal.
MVS - Hes bouncing around the league because he isnt good enough to stick anywhere.
ESB - On the bottom of rosters and practice squads.
Amari Rodgers - Trash and out of the league before the end of his rookie deal.
Christian Watson - The excuse of his injuries is irrelevant. His impacts are too far and few between. He played a lot of games this season and couldnt do more than 2 TDs and 600 something yards.
Romeo Doubs - Hes just average.
Samouri Toure - Surviving on practice squads.
Jayden Reed - Hes fine. Just like Doubs though he disappears too much and gets locked up.
Dontavion Wicks - Just fine.
Grant Dubose - Already off the team.

Should we include RBs?
Dexter Williams - Out of the league quickly.
AJ Dillon - This one was easy to see as a bust from a mile away. 4th round talent.
Kylin Hill - Off the team so fast.
Lew Nichols - We hardly knew ye.
Marshawn Lloyd - I like the kid but I question the reason for drafting one high when we invested in Jacobs and had a RB we liked in Emmanuel Wilson. Too early to call this anything but an unlucky rookie year.

Should we include TEs?
Jace Sternberger - LOL!
Josiah Deguara - What an utterly useless player. So bad at TE we used him as a FB mostly.
Luke Musgrave - Going into year 3 with nothing to show for it.
Tucker Kraft - Holy &%$@ our first legitimate hit on this entire list of pass catchers!

Circling this back to Love, Idk if we will ever know what his ceiling really is until he gets some legitimate weapons to throw to.

[NCF]

You guys can think what you want, but you are not going to convince me that Aaron Rodgers really thought Randall Cobb was going to move the needle from a production standpoint when they re-acquired him. He was coming off 5 straight seasons of very modest production with one semi outlier in 2019 when he went over 800 yards. If Rodgers wanted a WR, he should have wanted a different one.

[Acrobat]

agreed, if there is one thing this forum should agree on, it's that Guty is a QB abuser, neglected the needs of Rodgers, and started his protege with a room full of inexperienced noodle head rookies

I dont mind throwing rookies at a QB. Granted they arent as seasoned as a vet so they are missing nuances but you have to give a QB some talent. Gutenbumst tried but he continuosly misses the mark. Look at the WRs drafted.

JMon Moore - Trash and out of the league before the end of his rookie deal.
MVS - Hes bouncing around the league because he isnt good enough to stick anywhere.
ESB - On the bottom of rosters and practice squads.
Amari Rodgers - Trash and out of the league before the end of his rookie deal.
Christian Watson - The excuse of his injuries is irrelevant. His impacts are too far and few between. He played a lot of games this season and couldnt do more than 2 TDs and 600 something yards.
Romeo Doubs - Hes just average.
Samouri Toure - Surviving on practice squads.
Jayden Reed - Hes fine. Just like Doubs though he disappears too much and gets locked up.
Dontavion Wicks - Just fine.
Grant Dubose - Already off the team.

Should we include RBs?
Dexter Williams - Out of the league quickly.
AJ Dillon - This one was easy to see as a bust from a mile away. 4th round talent.
Kylin Hill - Off the team so fast.
Lew Nichols - We hardly knew ye.
Marshawn Lloyd - I like the kid but I question the reason for drafting one high when we invested in Jacobs and had a RB we liked in Emmanuel Wilson. Too early to call this anything but an unlucky rookie year.

Should we include TEs?
Jace Sternberger - LOL!
Josiah Deguara - What an utterly useless player. So bad at TE we used him as a FB mostly.
Luke Musgrave - Going into year 3 with nothing to show for it.
Tucker Kraft - Holy &%$@ our first legitimate hit on this entire list of pass catchers!

Circling this back to Love, Idk if we will ever know what his ceiling really is until he gets some legitimate weapons to throw to.

Yeah that list is really bad. Makes me wonder if it's an issue with scouting or coaching. Either way, Free Agency might be the way to go this offseason considering recent track record.

One footnote, there are a few guys going into year 3 that I still think could make a significant impact, like Wicks, Reed, and Musgrave.

[Labrev]

You guys can think what you want, but you are not going to convince me that Aaron Rodgers really thought Randall Cobb was going to move the needle from a production standpoint when they re-acquired him. He was coming off 5 straight seasons of very modest production with one semi outlier in 2019 when he went over 800 yards. If Rodgers wanted a WR, he should have wanted a different one.

We don't have to speculate. Rodgers explicitly stated his issues in 2021 in his tirade against the FO. He didn't say it was bc they cost him rings or the WR talent was lacking. It was that (1) Gute does business too coldly (2) Rodgers wanted to be consulted more before they cut bottom-of-roster scrubs like Kumerow, and (3) we need to keep more guys who are "fun" to come into work with like Cobb and coach Hackett.

Rodgers brought Cobb with him to NYJ when there was no need for him there at all. They had Hardman as a slot guy, one of those "so much better" receivers I keep being told about that Mahomes has and Rodgers would have been so much better if he had (so much for that, Jets traded him back to KC because Rodgers didn't make use of him at all).

All the Rodgers apologia on here has no basis in what Rodgers himself actually says or does, it's just for certain fans to project their Pet Issues onto him.

[Yoop]

You guys can think what you want, but you are not going to convince me that Aaron Rodgers really thought Randall Cobb was going to move the needle from a production standpoint when they re-acquired him. He was coming off 5 straight seasons of very modest production with one semi outlier in 2019 when he went over 800 yards. If Rodgers wanted a WR, he should have wanted a different one.

why do you think Rodgers first choice for a receiver in 2021 was Randal Cobb? I know you well enough to know YOU don't even believe that

Rodgers may have been given a list of available talent, and Cobb is who Guty said we could afford, that seems plausible to me.

[Yoop]

You guys can think what you want, but you are not going to convince me that Aaron Rodgers really thought Randall Cobb was going to move the needle from a production standpoint when they re-acquired him. He was coming off 5 straight seasons of very modest production with one semi outlier in 2019 when he went over 800 yards. If Rodgers wanted a WR, he should have wanted a different one.

We don't have to speculate. Rodgers explicitly stated his issues in 2021 in his tirade against the FO. He didn't say it was bc they cost him rings or the WR talent was lacking. It was that (1) Gute does business too coldly (2) Rodgers wanted to be consulted more before they cut bottom-of-roster scrubs like Kumerow, and (3) we need to keep more guys who are "fun" to come into work with like Cobb and coach Hackett.

Rodgers brought Cobb with him to NYJ when there was no need for him there at all. They had Hardman as a slot guy, one of those "so much better" receivers I keep being told about that Mahomes has and Rodgers would have been so much better if he had (so much for that, Jets traded him back to KC because Rodgers didn't make use of him at all).

All the Rodgers apologia on here has no basis in what Rodgers himself actually says or does, it's just for certain fans to project their Pet Issues onto him.

you keep adding stuff in to your sensible comments, such as Rodgers wanting to be informed, that's probably false, what he objected to was players finding out they had been cut via social media, and he brought Cobb and Lazard to NY because he had chemistry with them, why you and others play down the value of that is mind boggling.

I also take objection to you for calling me a apologist, no team treats there star QB the way this team rode the coat tails of Rodgers this last decade, we went whole seasons with minuscule receiver talent, zero RB talent, a defense that bordered bottom 3rd of the league and the worst ST's unit, take away Rodgers and we were the DEtroit Lions for the whole of it, Rodgers was the least of our problems

[Yoop]

agreed, if there is one thing this forum should agree on, it's that Guty is a QB abuser, neglected the needs of Rodgers, and started his protege with a room full of inexperienced noodle head rookies

I dont mind throwing rookies at a QB. Granted they arent as seasoned as a vet so they are missing nuances but you have to give a QB some talent. Gutenbumst tried but he continuosly misses the mark. Look at the WRs drafted.

JMon Moore - Trash and out of the league before the end of his rookie deal.
MVS - Hes bouncing around the league because he isnt good enough to stick anywhere.
ESB - On the bottom of rosters and practice squads.
Amari Rodgers - Trash and out of the league before the end of his rookie deal.
Christian Watson - The excuse of his injuries is irrelevant. His impacts are too far and few between. He played a lot of games this season and couldnt do more than 2 TDs and 600 something yards.
Romeo Doubs - Hes just average.
Samouri Toure - Surviving on practice squads.
Jayden Reed - Hes fine. Just like Doubs though he disappears too much and gets locked up.
Dontavion Wicks - Just fine.
Grant Dubose - Already off the team.

Should we include RBs?
Dexter Williams - Out of the league quickly.
AJ Dillon - This one was easy to see as a bust from a mile away. 4th round talent.
Kylin Hill - Off the team so fast.
Lew Nichols - We hardly knew ye.
Marshawn Lloyd - I like the kid but I question the reason for drafting one high when we invested in Jacobs and had a RB we liked in Emmanuel Wilson. Too early to call this anything but an unlucky rookie year.

Should we include TEs?
Jace Sternberger - LOL!
Josiah Deguara - What an utterly useless player. So bad at TE we used him as a FB mostly.
Luke Musgrave - Going into year 3 with nothing to show for it.
Tucker Kraft - Holy &%$@ our first legitimate hit on this entire list of pass catchers!

Circling this back to Love, Idk if we will ever know what his ceiling really is until he gets some legitimate weapons to throw to.

wow, that's actually painful to look at, and of course who does the forum blame, Rodgers, what a &%$@ show, and it went on like that since 2014.
Ted got caught up in the motto defense wins championships, same with Guty at first, the problem is they missed on defensive players, IMO just like most other GM's do, the response instead of the UFA market was to just wait till the next draft and miss on them again, meanwhile, the offense stagnates, such a waste of the best years Rodgers had to offer, just a huge act of futility, I try to stay optimistic, positive, but these last couple drafts of over loading on receiver picks seem like making up for years of neglect

[wallyuwl]

I see him more like Jay Cutler, but less accurate.

[RingoCStarrQB]

I see him more like Jay Cutler, but less accurate.

But Cutler pouted.

[Labrev]

you keep adding stuff in to your sensible comments, such as Rodgers wanting to be informed, that's probably false, what he objected to was players finding out they had been cut via social media, and he brought Cobb and Lazard to NY because he had chemistry with them, why you and others play down the value of that is mind boggling.

First of all, what you said is wrong. Like, factually incorrect. It is not -just- about "chemistry" as you claim. It is, in fact, about playing with his buddies.

He said so in his 2021 Tirade against the org. He named Randall Cobb as one of the people who makes it "fun" for him to come to work.

So yes, *at least some of the reason* he wanted Cobb back is because it is more enjoyable for him to come to work when his best friend is on the team. That is not up for debate. It is a cold, hard FACT.

Second, nobody here fails to understand the concept of chemistry being important, we just don't think it takes priority to playmaking talent/ability, even if that talent or ability is raw and underdeveloped. I know that more talented young players make more mistakes then JAG vets, and I DON'T CARE. Absent other important considerations, which do exist, all else being equal, no, mistake-making is not a good enough reason for me to sideline superior playmaking talent for no-upside vets. I rather take my lumps with young talent.

You OTOH kvetch about the receiver quality back then, then you defend --the reason-- why it was bad!! You say that Rodgers needs to be given his Scrub Buddies because he needs his guys with chemistry, in lieu of guys who are more talented playmakers, but when given guys with the talent to be playmakers (e.g. Watson and Doubs) Rodgers's internal politics keeps them behind his JAG pals (e.g. Cobb, Watkins, etc)!!

I also take objection to you for calling me a apologist, no team treats there star QB the way this team rode the coat tails of Rodgers this last decade, we went whole seasons with minuscule receiver talent, zero RB talent, a defense that bordered bottom 3rd of the league and the worst ST's unit, take away Rodgers and we were the DEtroit Lions for the whole of it, Rodgers was the least of our problems

The more pertinent point I made there was not what I call the people who defend him, but the weird psychopathology I described of such people where you write these pulp fan-fiction stories about what Rodgers went through and his internal mental state, as a way for them to bitch about their Pet Issues... and without exception, all these tall tales are completely at-odds with all the facts available to us. And then you cope with people pointing out such facts by saying "oh, umm... when Rodgers says X, what he *really* means is ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWYZ123456789@#$&+π√§£¢€¥%✓∆! ... I mean duh!! Why don't you understand???"

I guess reality is too harsh to deal with, because it invalidates your pet topics, so it's preferable to live in Lala Land.

[Yoop]

you keep adding stuff in to your sensible comments, such as Rodgers wanting to be informed, that's probably false, what he objected to was players finding out they had been cut via social media, and he brought Cobb and Lazard to NY because he had chemistry with them, why you and others play down the value of that is mind boggling.

First of all, what you said is wrong. Like, factually incorrect. It is not -just- about "chemistry" as you claim. It is, in fact, about playing with his buddies.

He said so in his 2021 Tirade against the org. He named Randall Cobb as one of the people who makes it "fun" for him to come to work.

So yes, *at least some of the reason* he wanted Cobb back is because it is more enjoyable for him to come to work when his best friend is on the team. That is not up for debate. It is a cold, hard FACT.

Second, nobody here fails to understand the concept of chemistry being important, we just don't think it takes priority to playmaking talent/ability, even if that talent or ability is raw and underdeveloped. I know that more talented young players make more mistakes then JAG vets, and I DON'T CARE. Absent other important considerations, which do exist, all else being equal, no, mistake-making is not a good enough reason for me to sideline superior playmaking talent for no-upside vets. I rather take my lumps with young talent.

You OTOH kvetch about the receiver quality back then, then you defend --the reason-- why it was bad!! You say that Rodgers needs to be given his Scrub Buddies because he needs his guys with chemistry, in lieu of guys who are more talented playmakers, but when given guys with the talent to be playmakers (e.g. Watson and Doubs) Rodgers's internal politics keeps them behind his JAG pals (e.g. Cobb, Watkins, etc)!!

I also take objection to you for calling me a apologist, no team treats there star QB the way this team rode the coat tails of Rodgers this last decade, we went whole seasons with minuscule receiver talent, zero RB talent, a defense that bordered bottom 3rd of the league and the worst ST's unit, take away Rodgers and we were the DEtroit Lions for the whole of it, Rodgers was the least of our problems

The more pertinent point I made there was not what I call the people who defend him, but the weird psychopathology I described of such people where you write these pulp fan-fiction stories about what Rodgers went through and his internal mental state, as a way for them to bitch about their Pet Issues... and without exception, all these tall tales are completely at-odds with all the facts available to us. And then you cope with people pointing out such facts by saying "oh, umm... when Rodgers says X, what he *really* means is ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWYZ123456789@#$&+π√§£¢€¥%✓∆! ... I mean duh!! Why don't you understand???"

I guess reality is too harsh to deal with, because it invalidates your pet topics, so it's preferable to live in Lala Land.

no one got Rodgers better receivers, it would be one thing if our GM's actually tried harder than some mid round raw rookies who as Lupe pointed out were nothing but jags, so why wouldn't Rodgers want Cobb or others he had chemistry with, again you gloss over that as though it's irrelevant when it's a huge part of this equation, it takes that plus talent to excel and you know it, so just stop with your idiotic buddy comparisons, for you to think a player of Rodgers tenure in this league and just 1 SB trophy would prefer a Buddy over actual talent is preposterous, and you know that too, geesh, just stop your nonsensical comments, no ones buying that crapola

most people who work in a craft long enough tire of breaking in newbies, specially when it's a constant every season, and each year it's very raw recruits, obviously coming to practice to work with a vet like Cobb or other vets who catch well over 60% of targets, run precise routes, is far more attractive than throwing to scrubs who don't do either very well, wow, that would seem to me easily understood, it's human nature.

again, you and others here defend the inept drafting and team building and lay the blame for our PO losses on Rodgers, when it's so obvious to anyone minus your hate agenda that issues I already pointed out were the actual causes, have a great day