He was best as a Free Safety zone defender on the back end. Exactly what Herman said in his video that slot/star would not be the best use of his abilities.
That's all true - but at the same time- he's also the best option we have for 2021. That Star role is not conducive for a rookie to handle- quite the opposite. You want a guy with experience, who's seen a lot of offenses, schemes and packages. So unless GB grabs a vet via trade/ FA...Savage may win that spot by default.
No way. You gotta maximize your best players’ talent and assemble the right role players to do the rest. You don’t disrupt the development of a cusping player and weaken his impact to fill some hole you develop.
Besides, nickel CB is where many many rookies start their careers. So I think the premise is faulty too
Yoho, Savage did his best when Pettine gave him the freedom to play up with his god given instincts, he had 1 (one) PD prior to week 10, and finished with I think 12 PD, so he had 10 PDs in 6 weeks, your so polarized with playinhg him deep that your over looking just how good he can be in the box.
Yoho, Savage did his best when Pettine gave him the freedom to play up with his god given instincts, he had 1 (one) PD prior to week 10, and finished with I think 12 PD, so he had 10 PDs in 6 weeks, your so polarized with playinhg him deep that your over looking just how good he can be in the box.
You are correct that I was lost in my own narrative about his deep play earlier in the thread. When I made the comment that evidence was contradicting what I thought I knew, that's what I was referring to.
But "playing in the box" and "switching to a different position, the nickel defender" are very different things. And according to this column, Barry plays his safeties close to the line of scrimmage and moves them into or out of the box at the snap routinely.
So that sounds like the role that Savage began to play a lot better in--as a safety who played closer. The nickel defender will have a lot more man coverage responsibilities and need a lot more twitchy change of direction to handle it. It will require a different set of reads and instincts that Savage is still developing as a young player.
It sounds like Savage (minus the sure tackling) and Amos are very good fits for what the Rams employed their safeties to do.
We need a nickel CB who is better than Sullivan. That doesn't mean we need to take Savage out of a safety role at which he excels and a scheme that may even suit him better.
As for lupe's comment, I'm not sure why having a weak tackler as your nickel is better than having a weak tackler 6 yards away from him as your safety
Re: Hot topic, who is our Star
Posted: 15 Apr 2021 07:49
by Pckfn23
Savage did his best when he was free to roam on the back end as a free safety. That's where his PDs and INTs came from. It's revisionist history to say he did his best when free to play up. Even then, an in the box safety is not the same as a nickel corner or STAR role.
As for playing closer to the line makes taking bad angles better, that doesn't make a lick of sense.
Savage did his best when he was free to roam on the back end as a free safety. That's where his PDs and INTs came from. It's revisionist history to say he did his best when free to play up. Even then, an in the box safety is not the same as a nickel corner or STAR role.
As for playing closer to the line makes taking bad angles better, that doesn't make a lick of sense.
he had 75 tackles, someone said he missed 29 tackles, that s what doesn't make sense, I think some of those missed tackles is someone happy with a pencil, and he had two picks that I remember about 10 to 12 yrds from the los, they weren't all deep picks as you claim.
as to his man coverage ability, his pre draft report mentions cod as one of his assets, why anyone would think he'd struggle to cover in the slot baffles me.
I don't think I ever said anything about angles, that must of been Lupe, I didn't buy into the bad angles stuff anyway.
Re: Hot topic, who is our Star
Posted: 15 Apr 2021 16:04
by Pckfn23
That entire post deals with things that were never said:
Tackles or missed tackles were not mentioned.
That an INT is 10-12 yards beyond the line of scrimmage does not mean he wasn't playing free safety.
It was never claimed all the INTs were deep.
No one ever suggested he struggled to cover in the slot.
The entire point is don't take a guy from a spot where he is looking like he will become a damn good player and move him to a spot he might become a good player. In this case, if you don't have a guy who fits the Charles Woodson type star position, don't employ that position, especially considering that position as mentioned is not essential for a defense. Make that a standard slot corner.
Savage did his best when he was free to roam on the back end as a free safety. That's where his PDs and INTs came from. It's revisionist history to say he did his best when free to play up. Even then, an in the box safety is not the same as a nickel corner or STAR role.
As for playing closer to the line makes taking bad angles better, that doesn't make a lick of sense.
he had 75 tackles, someone said he missed 29 tackles, that s what doesn't make sense, I think some of those missed tackles is someone happy with a pencil, and he had two picks that I remember about 10 to 12 yrds from the los, they weren't all deep picks as you claim.
as to his man coverage ability, his pre draft report mentions cod as one of his assets, why anyone would think he'd struggle to cover in the slot baffles me.
I don't think I ever said anything about angles, that must of been Lupe, I didn't buy into the bad angles stuff anyway.
I like Savage. His tackling pisses me off.
That one article quoted Savage missing 29 tackles over 2 years. Thats still a lot. He is still the worst tackler on the team. This play here sticks out. Another one was against the Colts that I remember. As a safety youve got to make this play or at least slow him down. Dalvins a good player too but youve gotta do better than this and this is what we see often enough to be concerned from Savage when hes one on one in open space.
Re: Hot topic, who is our Star
Posted: 23 Jun 2021 14:01
by Yoop
this I'am sure is why Savage is considered a plus for the star position, one of the3 top 5 safety's in the league in his 2nd season.
Darnell Savage ranked as the No. 3 overall safety and No. 10 overall slot defender.
Sounds like a good reason not to ask him to do something new, but hey, I'm just an internet poster.
I think Alexander is the obvious choice to spend a ton of time there. If people think that's a misuse of his abilities, that's exactly how the Rams used Ramsey a ton of the time.
I think King, Stokes, and Alexander are a nice use of Alexander in the star.
While King OR Stokes opposite Alexander with Chandon Sullivan in the slot/star is a good start.
I think Shemar Jean-Charles will push Sullivan as the season progresses.
I think Adrian Amos, who spent several reps in the box as a S/LB hybrid in OTAs is a nice dark horse, given how aware and assignment-sure he is. He's the only DB that showed slot time in OTAs and minicamps that isn't a corner, from what I could hear.
Sounds like a good reason not to ask him to do something new, but hey, I'm just an internet poster.
I think Alexander is the obvious choice to spend a ton of time there. If people think that's a misuse of his abilities, that's exactly how the Rams used Ramsey a ton of the time.
I think King, Stokes, and Alexander are a nice use of Alexander in the star.
While King OR Stokes opposite Alexander with Chandon Sullivan in the slot/star is a good start.
I think Shemar Jean-Charles will push Sullivan as the season progresses.
I think Adrian Amos, who spent several reps in the box as a S/LB hybrid in OTAs is a nice dark horse, given how aware and assignment-sure he is. He's the only DB that showed slot time in OTAs and minicamps that isn't a corner, from what I could hear.
agreed, in fact I'am on record with my comment concerning the roll of our top 3 Cb's, and Sullivan rotating with Alexander in the slot when we play little nickel, but I still think Savage will be in the slot when we play big nickel, it's not new to him either, I'll go try and find the % of snaps in played in the slot, I'am sure it's more then you seem to think, why you are so against moving him up is baffling to me, he was at his best when we did it.
Savage was one of the best safeties in football to end last season.
that has been said by at least a half doz sports writers, and he was up in the slot a lot the last 8 games, so why do you think it's something new?
that has been said by at least a half doz sports writers, and he was up in the slot a lot the last 8 games, so why do you think it's something new?
He lined up closer to the line, but he was rarely "in the slot."
This new scheme allegedly plays its safeties much closer to the line of scrimmage than most defenses. So to me, you have a guy that played well as a safety role when he moved closer to the l.o.s. and was freed up to make more plays. But that's what this new D does. So stay there. Look at the safeties in L.A.--John Johnson III flourished there and got a big deal elsewhere. Taylor Rapp came right in and started making an impact.
The safety position is still a playmaking position in this defense. It still lets guys line up close to the line where they can go a variety of places at the snap (replacing pre-snap movement with after-the-snap movement). The role seems GREAT for Savage.
Meanwhile the slot, even closer to the line, with a lot more thinking and processing--a lot more man coverage... it's going to be new.
I just feel like a guy who exceled as he developed a feel for the safety position and was freed up to make plays need not be shoved into a role where he's going to be slowing down and processing more, where his recognition is at a premium... I just don't get the appeal.
The Rams had Johnson and Rapp at safety, Ramsey and Troy Hill basically alternating the star position. They weren't pulling John Johnson down there. Let guys thrive where they live.
Re: Hot topic, who is our Star
Posted: 23 Jun 2021 15:22
by Yoop
when Savage defends against the slot receiver which he did plenty, then basically he is playing slot receiver defender, if you want to call him a slot safety, fine, but he is playing the star roll
The nickel position is not foreign to Darnell Savage. He took his fair share of snaps there at Maryland, and a few draft analysts thought he could carve out a role as a nickel corner in the NFL. In fact, he's taken over 200 snaps there in each of his first two seasons with Green Bay--and he was pretty darn good as well.
This past season out of 85 eligible cornerbacks and safeties, Savage ranked fourth in snaps per reception out of the slot and ninth in snaps per target. On top of that, his passer rating when targeted of 58.0 also ranked fourth.
With that said, as impressive as Savage has looked, he is truly at his best when he is able to roam closer to the line of scrimmage; that is when we see him flying around making plays. That isn't to say he wouldn't be successful taking on a larger role in the slot; however, to maximize his skill-set, it's best to move him around rather than pigeonholing him to one position.
but your right, as the last part says, letting him roam and not locking him in to any one position is the best way to increase his production, ranked 4 in the slot is why plenty of people say he could be a great star defender though.
This new scheme allegedly plays its safeties much closer to the line of scrimmage than most defenses.
Was that made possible by the Rams pass rush ?
In other words, Safeties didn't have to worry about the deep shots as much because Donald/Floyd/Brockers would get to QB ?
very curious about the strategy on this deployment
Was that made possible by the Rams pass rush ?
In other words, Safeties didn't have to worry about the deep shots as much because Donald/Floyd/Brockers would get to QB ?
very curious about the strategy on this deployment
From what I read the safeties start closer to the l.o.s., about 8-10 yards off; and then at the snap there's movement. So if the safeties are responsible for a deep part of the field on that play, they bail at the snap. If they are playing up, they attack at the snap. It's a further form of disguise that requires athletic and smart safeties, but also sets them up for playmaking by having them appear at unexpected locations on the field. Though often, they are just playing a 2-deep shell or a quarters coverage, the closer alignment creates another layer of disguise.
Was that made possible by the Rams pass rush ?
In other words, Safeties didn't have to worry about the deep shots as much because Donald/Floyd/Brockers would get to QB ?
very curious about the strategy on this deployment
From what I read the safeties start closer to the l.o.s., about 8-10 yards off; and then at the snap there's movement. So if the safeties are responsible for a deep part of the field on that play, they bail at the snap. If they are playing up, they attack at the snap. It's a further form of disguise that requires athletic and smart safeties, but also sets them up for playmaking by having them appear at unexpected locations on the field. Though often, they are just playing a 2-deep shell or a quarters coverage, the closer alignment creates another layer of disguise.
And on that note, Rodgers said today that he pulled Savage aside today to let him know that a few times in practice he's been ready to throw and pulled back because Savage flashed into his view somewhere Rodgers didn't expect him to be.
Re: Hot topic, who is our Star
Posted: 04 Aug 2021 16:08
by Backthepack4ever
When Gary is the best edge in the NFCN and savage is an all pro this year the world will bow to that draft
When Gary is the best edge in the NFCN and savage is an all pro this year the world will bow to that draft
and then we can make them the highest paid players in the league at there positions
plus we have to resign Z, part of me thinks we'd be better off if both just miss out on PB selection, the other part is me hoping Gary or Z jump back up to leading the league in pressures and sacks.
Re: Hot topic, who is our Star
Posted: 09 Aug 2021 09:29
by Yoop
little more about the leading candidates to share THE STAR position, short article, so I brought it all
The Green Bay Packers think they have four different players that can move inside and play the “star” position at slot cornerback within Joe Barry’s defense.
Defensive backs coach Jerry Gray said the team is using Chandon Sullivan, Shemar Jean-Charles, Darnell Savage and Jaire Alexander in the slot and are expecting to interchange the four based on who they are defending inside.
“We have four guys that can really, really play at that level, depending on who is in the slot,” Gray said. “We’re giving guys chances so when they get in there, it’s not their first time that they’ve been in that position, and I think that’s good for us.”
Gray said Sullivan is doing a “great job” in the slot, and Savage is “begging” to get more time there. Alexander started repping in the slot this past week, and Jean-Charles is being trained to play inside.
Matchups could dictate who is in the slot during a given week. For instance, Gray mentioned if a team has two good tight ends, Savage might come down and play the slot. Or if a team wants to put its No. 1 receiver in the slot, Alexander can “match” him inside.
Sullivan was the team’s primary slot corner last season and looks like a good bet to play a lot inside once again in 2021. He was one of the standouts from Saturday night’s Family Night scrimmage.
The Packers are also getting Jean-Charles, a fifth-round pick, up to speed inside.
Gray said Jean-Charles is “not afraid to make tackles” and “tough” enough to play the slot at the NFL level.
Training camp is young, but it looks like the Packers have a good handle on an important position in Barry’s defense. Sullivan provides a starter, Savage and Alexander are matchup weapons against specific looks and Jean-Charles is the apprentice in training
I heard on Silversteins podcast that Savage really wants the star role but the team wants him on the backend. Sounds like the position is as good as Sullivans which honestly makes the most sense. Not a ton of depth at Boundary CB or S to pull one of those guys. Alexander would probably thrive inside but he thrives on the outside where I think he has more impact making it difficult on teams to complete passes to their best guys.
Re: Hot topic, who is our Star
Posted: 09 Aug 2021 12:29
by BF004
I think it makes sense to try guys around. Play matchups and play the hot hand.
When we play the Bears with decent TEs and crap WRs, makes sense for Savage to play there more than a given week. With the Vikings and Jefferson, be inclined to get Jaire in there more. But prolly will be Sullivan most of the time when healthy.
