Packers Huddle

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 08:39

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 08:33

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

25 May 2021 21:32

Y'all still think there is no chance Jenkins is an OT now?

Not really no. Maybe looking at him to be top backup LT possible beginning of the year starter.

Just no reason with Bak and Turner on roster and under contract for 2 more years.

I really don't understand why people think Turner is any good. I understand 1 year of good stats and a career of bad stats. But I see what I see and that a TE or a RB is always helping Turner. Stats look a lot better when you always have a TE to chip your man or the RB is prepared to help and therefore does not see the blitzing LB until it is too late.

And I don't understand why you think Jenkins is going to be this great tackle.

I am hoping he is serviceable as a backup and during Bak's absence. If he shows he is really good at tackle and his replacements at guard are also doing really well....then maybe by thoughts will change.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 08:39

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 08:33

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

25 May 2021 21:32

Y'all still think there is no chance Jenkins is an OT now?

Not really no. Maybe looking at him to be top backup LT possible beginning of the year starter.

Just no reason with Bak and Turner on roster and under contract for 2 more years.

I really don't understand why people think Turner is any good. I understand 1 year of good stats and a career of bad stats. But I see what I see and that a TE or a RB is always helping Turner. Stats look a lot better when you always have a TE to chip your man or the RB is prepared to help and therefore does not see the blitzing LB until it is too late.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 08:39

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 08:33

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

25 May 2021 21:32

Y'all still think there is no chance Jenkins is an OT now?

Not really no. Maybe looking at him to be top backup LT possible beginning of the year starter.

Just no reason with Bak and Turner on roster and under contract for 2 more years.

I really don't understand why people think Turner is any good. I understand 1 year of good stats and a career of bad stats. But I see what I see and that a TE or a RB is always helping Turner. Stats look a lot better when you always have a TE to chip your man or the RB is prepared to help and therefore does not see the blitzing LB until it is too late.

we do that with Bak also every time we run strong side, Turner had a individual grade higher then Bak last year, and also Jenkins, Jenkins is a better g then T, other wise he'd be playing that position, you act as though our coaches are holding Jenkins back, and thats insane, LG is considered almost as important as LT by most teams, why people think LT is the only blind side position makes zero sense, you can be sure no OL coach does, everything left of center for a right handed QB is the blind side.

I know most fans think RT is of more importance, but a R handed QB can automatically see how well his blocking is doing in that direction initially, not so on the left side, thats why a quality LG will make the same or even more money then a RT.

your beating on dead horse with your desire to move a very good LG to tackle imho.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 08:39

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 08:33

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

25 May 2021 21:32

Y'all still think there is no chance Jenkins is an OT now?

Not really no. Maybe looking at him to be top backup LT possible beginning of the year starter.

Just no reason with Bak and Turner on roster and under contract for 2 more years.

I really don't understand why people think Turner is any good. I understand 1 year of good stats and a career of bad stats. But I see what I see and that a TE or a RB is always helping Turner. Stats look a lot better when you always have a TE to chip your man or the RB is prepared to help and therefore does not see the blitzing LB until it is too late.

Because Turner was really good at RT all year. I don't get your obsession on trying to minimalize his year.

I understand 1 year of good stats and a career of bad stats.

I don't see how you think Turner needs replacement yet think Robert Tonyan is already an elite TE.

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:05

Because Turner was really good at RT all year. I don't get your obsession on trying to minimalize his year.

Rick Wagner #8 on that list. I think, clearly, Matt LaFleur's scheme does a lot of protect the OT's. That is part of the reason that NFCCG, even without Bak, was so disappointing. I think we got away from some of the things Matt likes and then you see what you really have in Turner and Wagner and it's not pretty. Turner is serviceable. Maybe even good. But, I also think he is replaceable. I love the chess piece that Elgton Jenkins is, but to me, if they move him over to RT, you improve that position (a more important position than OG, IMO) and solidify that spot for a decade. I don't know how it will all unfold with the timing of any potential change, but given our cap constraints, I am still somewhat convinced Turner may be in his last season with us.

NCF wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:14

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:05

Because Turner was really good at RT all year. I don't get your obsession on trying to minimalize his year.

Rick Wagner #8 on that list. I think, clearly, Matt LaFleur's scheme does a lot of protect the OT's. That is part of the reason that NFCCG, even without Bak, was so disappointing. I think we got away from some of the things Matt likes and then you see what you really have in Turner and Wagner and it's not pretty. Turner is serviceable. Maybe even good. But, I also think he is replaceable. I love the chess piece that Elgton Jenkins is, but to me, if they move him over to RT, you improve that position (a more important position than OG, IMO) and solidify that spot for a decade. I don't know how it will all unfold with the timing of any potential change, but given our cap constraints, I am still somewhat convinced Turner may be in his last season with us.

I think this is legit. As I said on #12, the way to have a great OLine is to have 2 or 3 high quality players and at least 4 non-liability players. When you have a good scheme and a couple elite players that can keep their end of the bargain setting up the non-liability players for success.

Last year, the Packers had elite play at LT (when Bakh was healthy), C (when Linsley was healthy), very high-caliber play from Jenkins where he lined up, and then non-liability play from Turner, Patrick, Runyan at times, and Wagner at times (sometimes he was a liability).

That made the whole line good and the advanced metrics for each individual very good, but it doesn't mean that every individual is a super high-quality player, either.

NCF wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:14

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:05

Because Turner was really good at RT all year. I don't get your obsession on trying to minimalize his year.

Rick Wagner #8 on that list. I think, clearly, Matt LaFleur's scheme does a lot of protect the OT's. That is part of the reason that NFCCG, even without Bak, was so disappointing. I think we got away from some of the things Matt likes and then you see what you really have in Turner and Wagner and it's not pretty. Turner is serviceable. Maybe even good. But, I also think he is replaceable. I love the chess piece that Elgton Jenkins is, but to me, if they move him over to RT, you improve that position (a more important position than OG, IMO) and solidify that spot for a decade. I don't know how it will all unfold with the timing of any potential change, but given our cap constraints, I am still somewhat convinced Turner may be in his last season with us.

I'd prolly put more on Aaron helping the tackles just as much, if not more, than LaFleur. The sick hardcount grounds the linemen a bit more than normal, Aaron gets the defense to reveal their play more than most QB's, correct audibles to runs and quick passes etc.

I won't even pretend Turner was a good as Bulaga, but when it comes to playing guys like Myers, Patrick or Runyan, more like and, vs Turner seems like silly talk to me.

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:27

NCF wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:14

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:05

Because Turner was really good at RT all year. I don't get your obsession on trying to minimalize his year.

Rick Wagner #8 on that list. I think, clearly, Matt LaFleur's scheme does a lot of protect the OT's. That is part of the reason that NFCCG, even without Bak, was so disappointing. I think we got away from some of the things Matt likes and then you see what you really have in Turner and Wagner and it's not pretty. Turner is serviceable. Maybe even good. But, I also think he is replaceable. I love the chess piece that Elgton Jenkins is, but to me, if they move him over to RT, you improve that position (a more important position than OG, IMO) and solidify that spot for a decade. I don't know how it will all unfold with the timing of any potential change, but given our cap constraints, I am still somewhat convinced Turner may be in his last season with us.

I'd prolly put more on Aaron helping the tackles just as much, if not more, than LaFleur. The sick hardcount grounds the linemen a bit more than normal, Aaron gets the defense to reveal their play more than most QB's, correct audibles to runs and quick passes etc.

I won't even pretend Turner was a good as Bulaga, but when it comes to playing guys like Myers, Patrick or Runyan, more like and, vs Turner seems like silly talk to me.

motion freezes a defense too, almost everything we do now in Matts offense helps our blockers, our receivers, even our Rb's.

to bad we didn't run this offense for the last 5 years

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:27

I won't even pretend Turner was a good as Bulaga, but when it comes to playing guys like Myers, Patrick or Runyan, more like and, vs Turner seems like silly talk to me.

Fair enough. That's why I specified that I don't really know what timetable makes the best sense. Maybe it depends on some of those interior guys showing they can hack it first. I don't really know. My main point is I think it's a perfectly viable option to move Jenkins to OT permanently and I think it's a perfectly viable option to keep him at OG, long-term. Billy Turner isn't going to be a primary factor in that decision.

Waldo wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 07:58

I see there's an article from Demovsky pumping up Love's OTA performance

https://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-pac ... _/id/50880

It's funny watching him try to squeeze all the comments into a narrative, having watched the pressers. Like the Amos quote at the end has nothing to do with Love. He was asked about Love, though, because the media is trying really really hard to cover the QB story from every angle. And mostly the players are like "yeah, this has nothing to do with me."

I wonder if the press understands how insulting it is to players when the first several questions lobbed to them are about other people. I felt the same way with Josh Myers, like the first question in each of his first two media appearances were "Do you know Corey Linsley and have you talked to him?"

Come on, guys; ask the players about themselves and their work and their role first. Get to the "what do you think about Rodgers?" later.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:56

I wonder if the press understands how insulting it is to players when the first several questions lobbed to them are about other people.

Yes. I agree completely.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:56

Waldo wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 07:58

I see there's an article from Demovsky pumping up Love's OTA performance

https://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-pac ... _/id/50880

It's funny watching him try to squeeze all the comments into a narrative, having watched the pressers. Like the Amos quote at the end has nothing to do with Love. He was asked about Love, though, because the media is trying really really hard to cover the QB story from every angle. And mostly the players are like "yeah, this has nothing to do with me."

I wonder if the press understands how insulting it is to players when the first several questions lobbed to them are about other people. I felt the same way with Josh Myers, like the first question in each of his first two media appearances were "Do you know Corey Linsley and have you talked to him?"

Come on, guys; ask the players about themselves and their work and their role first. Get to the "what do you think about Rodgers?" later.

The only media people who really do this honestly represent Gannett Media or ESPN.

Spofford, Wes, Andy, Nagler ask better and relevant questions to the players.

I guess I get it though too. Spoff and Wes don't have to drive clicks too hard since they are already subsidized by the Packers. Andy and Nagler are super low Overhead. Andy isn't chasing revenue. This is just a fun side gig for him. So he does work for the diehard.

The rest have revenue to worry about. Clicks to worry about and TV interviews on SportsCenter with "juice" to worry about. So I get why they do it. But I agree. It's annoying.

Yoop wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:00

Jenkins is a better g then T, other wise he'd be playing that position, you act as though our coaches are holding Jenkins back, and thats insane, LG is considered almost as important as LT by most teams,

This is true about holding Jenkins back, except the LT point, but guard is absolutely as valuable, if not more than RT. That is evidenced by $$$ handed out by NFL teams.

Hard to get a true apples to apples, but for guard, the highest average contract is $18,036,000. There are 11 guards making >$10 million average.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/guard/

Highest non-Lane Johnson RT contact average is 14 million, Johnson is 18 million. Only 4 RT's making over $10 million average which for some reason does not include Bulaga I noticed. So 5.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/av ... ht-tackle/


Twice as many guards start, so it is about exactly even to be honest. Point being, playing Jenkins at guard is in no way limiting his value or contribution vs RT. And given he won't be playing LT long term with Bakhtiari's new contract, he is just fine at guard.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 08:39

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 08:33

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

25 May 2021 21:32

Y'all still think there is no chance Jenkins is an OT now?

Not really no. Maybe looking at him to be top backup LT possible beginning of the year starter.

Just no reason with Bak and Turner on roster and under contract for 2 more years.

I really don't understand why people think Turner is any good. I understand 1 year of good stats and a career of bad stats. But I see what I see and that a TE or a RB is always helping Turner. Stats look a lot better when you always have a TE to chip your man or the RB is prepared to help and therefore does not see the blitzing LB until it is too late.

The bold above is not accurate.

Turner had a good year in 2019 and a really good year in 2020. Before that he has some decent years and some not so decent years.

Turner is far from "not good."

go pak go wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 10:31

The only media people who really do this honestly represent Gannett Media or ESPN.

Spofford, Wes, Andy, Nagler ask better and relevant questions to the players.

I guess I get it though too. Spoff and Wes don't have to drive clicks too hard since they are already subsidized by the Packers. Andy and Nagler are super low Overhead. Andy isn't chasing revenue. This is just a fun side gig for him. So he does work for the diehard.

The rest have revenue to worry about. Clicks to worry about and TV interviews on SportsCenter with "juice" to worry about. So I get why they do it. But I agree. It's annoying.

No I get it. They have to ask, to an extent; especially in the "there's not much real info" days. But don't do it FIRST. They almost always do it first, like they want to get it out of the way. But it feels so deflating for young players excited about their own stories and trajectories.

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 10:36

Yoop wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 09:00

Jenkins is a better g then T, other wise he'd be playing that position, you act as though our coaches are holding Jenkins back, and thats insane, LG is considered almost as important as LT by most teams,

This is true about holding Jenkins back, except the LT point, but guard is absolutely as valuable, if not more than RT. That is evidenced by $$$ handed out by NFL teams.

Hard to get a true apples to apples, but for guard, the highest average contract is $18,036,000. There are 11 guards making >$10 million average.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/guard/

Highest non-Lane Johnson RT contact average is 14 million, Johnson is 18 million. Only 4 RT's making over $10 million average which for some reason does not include Bulaga I noticed. So 5.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/av ... ht-tackle/


Twice as many guards start, so it is about exactly even to be honest. Point being, playing Jenkins at guard is in no way limiting his value or contribution vs RT. And given he won't be playing LT long term with Bakhtiari's new contract, he is just fine at guard.

I remember reading some of that about contracts a couple years ago

as I posted in the other thread I think G's had a higher value back in the run era, but that now with these contracts seems to be changing, specially when ya consider that defenses now stunt so often to create inside pressure, and so many OLB's fake the outside rush and then counter inside the tackle and the G has to pick them up.

thanks for helping me make my point more valid.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 10:44

go pak go wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 10:31

The only media people who really do this honestly represent Gannett Media or ESPN.

Spofford, Wes, Andy, Nagler ask better and relevant questions to the players.

I guess I get it though too. Spoff and Wes don't have to drive clicks too hard since they are already subsidized by the Packers. Andy and Nagler are super low Overhead. Andy isn't chasing revenue. This is just a fun side gig for him. So he does work for the diehard.

The rest have revenue to worry about. Clicks to worry about and TV interviews on SportsCenter with "juice" to worry about. So I get why they do it. But I agree. It's annoying.

No I get it. They have to ask, to an extent; especially in the "there's not much real info" days. But don't do it FIRST. They almost always do it first, like they want to get it out of the way. But it feels so deflating for young players excited about their own stories and trajectories.

always been like this, and it's such a turn off for me that I rarely listen to interviews and sports writers, a players spends half his life developing himself only to have some nit wit sports writer ask him questions about players more proven then themselves, nothing can be more insulting.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 10:43

The bold above is not accurate.

Turner had a good year in 2019 and a really good year in 2020. Before that he has some decent years and some not so decent years.

Correct; he came to us as an average starter, give or take; a bit below sometimes, a bit above sometimes. An inconsistent player who belongs as a starter in the league but could also be upgraded. He came to us on an "over-paid" contract, too. I said it. Most people said it. Lupe obsessed over it. When he signed the contract I said "this is only worth it if he becomes our starting RT after a year when Bulaga leaves," and lo and behold, that's what happened. But I also, at the time, did not believe he would play well enough as a starting RT. I certainly didn't expect he'd play BETTER at RT than at OG. That's been interesting, but it has also been fairly plainly apparent.

So he's a capable starting RT who had a very inconsistent, averageish career for his first 4 years in the league and has been a less inconsistent, more reliable, non-liability in his past 2 years with us. That's who he is, and that's definitely worth a vote. He's an above average starter on a line that doesn't need to ask him to do more than he is capable of.

Yoop wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 10:45

thanks for helping me make my point more valid.

Every once in a very great while, we see things the same way.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 10:44

go pak go wrote: ↑

27 May 2021 10:31

The only media people who really do this honestly represent Gannett Media or ESPN.

Spofford, Wes, Andy, Nagler ask better and relevant questions to the players.

I guess I get it though too. Spoff and Wes don't have to drive clicks too hard since they are already subsidized by the Packers. Andy and Nagler are super low Overhead. Andy isn't chasing revenue. This is just a fun side gig for him. So he does work for the diehard.

The rest have revenue to worry about. Clicks to worry about and TV interviews on SportsCenter with "juice" to worry about. So I get why they do it. But I agree. It's annoying.

No I get it. They have to ask, to an extent; especially in the "there's not much real info" days. But don't do it FIRST. They almost always do it first, like they want to get it out of the way. But it feels so deflating for young players excited about their own stories and trajectories.

I think it also has to do with the media members know they have 1...maybe 2 questions they can personally ask. So if the Rodgers story is their agenda and they have limited player exposure....Amos gets the question because they want to make their 1 or 2 questions count.

But yeah I agree. It's super annoying. Especially when follow up questions by others are just trying to continue to dig for further answers on the story.