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no it's possible to see most of the action, most of the time, cept when the camera zooms to the end of the play.
I'm sorry yoop. What position are we and Packfn23 trying to push here?Yoop wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:14no it's possible to see most of the action, most of the time, cept when the camera zooms to the end of the play.
you bring PFF grades when it suits YOU and defends your opinion, when it doesn't, you point out any flaw that distorts theres, I trust PFF over you and other fans here
go pak go wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:21I'm sorry yoop. What position are we and Packfn23 trying to push here?Yoop wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:14no it's possible to see most of the action, most of the time, cept when the camera zooms to the end of the play.
you bring PFF grades when it suits YOU and defends your opinion, when it doesn't, you point out any flaw that distorts theres, I trust PFF over you and other fans here
This was brought up all because of a question of why Stokes was so far behind King when Stokes had an absolutely unbelievable game. And all I did was respond, "you know why...the INT"
And now you are a picking a fight about PFF and then take it another step about pushing an agenda.
So what exactly is wrong with us questioning some PFF grades? Because that is literally all we did.
Every player in that secondary played awesome. Every one of them. It was literally Wilson's worst performance of his career. It was just questioned why Stokes, who played all the snaps and didn't allow anything was graded so far below King who played 20 snaps.
Savage got beat once but the pressure bailed him out and Wilson had to throw the ball deeper and higher which allowed Savage to make a play on the ball. King got beat once by Metcalf but again the pressure bailed him out.
Almost every live play shown on the TV broadcast only shows the the line of scrimmage and 5-10 yards beyond and then follows the QB or ball carrier. Rarely does the camera zoom out to show all 22 players. Sometimes we get replays that will show the whole field, but not more than a few handfuls a game. In all we rarely see what happens in the defensive backfield. Case in point the Rodgers INT, until we saw the All 22 look we didn't see the Deguara was wide open early on that play.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:14no it's possible to see most of the action, most of the time, cept when the camera zooms to the end of the play.
you bring PFF grades when it suits YOU and defends your opinion, when it doesn't, you point out any flaw that distorts theres, I trust PFF over you and other fans here
are you saying that PFF is limited to the same camera views that ABC and FOX shows us? they have a lot more camera angles then we get to see, and they probably have access to the all 22 before we do as well.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:44Almost every live play shown on the TV broadcast only shows the the line of scrimmage and 5-10 yards beyond and then follows the QB or ball carrier. Rarely does the camera zoom out to show all 22 players. Sometimes we get replays that will show the whole field, but not more than a few handfuls a game. In all we rarely see what happens in the defensive backfield. Case in point the Rodgers INT, until we saw the All 22 look we didn't see the Deguara was wide open early on that play.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:14no it's possible to see most of the action, most of the time, cept when the camera zooms to the end of the play.
you bring PFF grades when it suits YOU and defends your opinion, when it doesn't, you point out any flaw that distorts theres, I trust PFF over you and other fans here
I bring PFF grades every week unless someone beats me. No agenda.
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. They are limited to the same camera angles as we see on the TV broadcast. They DO NOT have a lot more camera angles than we have nor do that get the All 22 before teams or the media do. They definitely do not get the ALL 22 before they release their grades.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:53are you saying that PFF is limited to the same camera views that ABC and FOX shows us? they have a lot more camera angles then we get to see, and they probably have access to the all 22 before we do as well.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:44Almost every live play shown on the TV broadcast only shows the the line of scrimmage and 5-10 yards beyond and then follows the QB or ball carrier. Rarely does the camera zoom out to show all 22 players. Sometimes we get replays that will show the whole field, but not more than a few handfuls a game. In all we rarely see what happens in the defensive backfield. Case in point the Rodgers INT, until we saw the All 22 look we didn't see the Deguara was wide open early on that play.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:14
no it's possible to see most of the action, most of the time, cept when the camera zooms to the end of the play.
you bring PFF grades when it suits YOU and defends your opinion, when it doesn't, you point out any flaw that distorts theres, I trust PFF over you and other fans here
I bring PFF grades every week unless someone beats me. No agenda.
when we get instant replay to show what the broadcast didn't, such as a holding penalty, or any other angle of play, I'am saying they have access to all of that, and I'd bet they get the all 22 just as soon as the game is over, because the all 22 is a synopsis of all those camera angles.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:55Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. They are limited to the same camera angles as we see on the TV broadcast. They DO NOT have a lot more camera angles than we have nor do that get the All 22 before teams or the media do. They definitely do not get the ALL 22 before they release their grades.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:53are you saying that PFF is limited to the same camera views that ABC and FOX shows us? they have a lot more camera angles then we get to see, and they probably have access to the all 22 before we do as well.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:44
Almost every live play shown on the TV broadcast only shows the the line of scrimmage and 5-10 yards beyond and then follows the QB or ball carrier. Rarely does the camera zoom out to show all 22 players. Sometimes we get replays that will show the whole field, but not more than a few handfuls a game. In all we rarely see what happens in the defensive backfield. Case in point the Rodgers INT, until we saw the All 22 look we didn't see the Deguara was wide open early on that play.
I bring PFF grades every week unless someone beats me. No agenda.
Yes, that is the same replay we get on the broadcast when they show replays, as I have been saying.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 08:03when we get instant replay to show what the broadcast didn't, such as a holding penalty, or any other angle of play, I'am saying they have access to all of that, and I'd bet they get the all 22 just as soon as the game is over, because the all 22 is a synopsis of all those camera angles.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:55Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. They are limited to the same camera angles as we see on the TV broadcast. They DO NOT have a lot more camera angles than we have nor do that get the All 22 before teams or the media do. They definitely do not get the ALL 22 before they release their grades.
when you can prove I'am wrong, then get back to me.
PFF might use alternative methods just as some of the analyst in this article do, whatever, unless Lafluer comes out and disagree's with there grades as he has because he knows who's assigned to whom, then I listen to PFF, cause there rarely off by much.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 08:22Yes, that is the same replay we get on the broadcast when they show replays, as I have been saying.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 08:03when we get instant replay to show what the broadcast didn't, such as a holding penalty, or any other angle of play, I'am saying they have access to all of that, and I'd bet they get the all 22 just as soon as the game is over, because the all 22 is a synopsis of all those camera angles.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 07:55
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. They are limited to the same camera angles as we see on the TV broadcast. They DO NOT have a lot more camera angles than we have nor do that get the All 22 before teams or the media do. They definitely do not get the ALL 22 before they release their grades.
when you can prove I'am wrong, then get back to me.
No one outside the NFL gets the ALL-22 before PFF posts their grades: https://defector.com/why-does-nfl-game- ... ction-now/
PFF itself has also stated that they breakdown the grades before the ALl-22 comes out.
I think a prudent individual would aggregate all graders and personal watch to form a conclusion rather than just blindly follow one grading system.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 08:41PFF might use alternative methods just as some of the analyst in this article do, whatever, unless Lafluer comes out and disagree's with there grades as he has because he knows who's assigned to whom, then I listen to PFF, cause there rarely off by much.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 08:22Yes, that is the same replay we get on the broadcast when they show replays, as I have been saying.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 08:03
when we get instant replay to show what the broadcast didn't, such as a holding penalty, or any other angle of play, I'am saying they have access to all of that, and I'd bet they get the all 22 just as soon as the game is over, because the all 22 is a synopsis of all those camera angles.
when you can prove I'am wrong, then get back to me.
No one outside the NFL gets the ALL-22 before PFF posts their grades: https://defector.com/why-does-nfl-game- ... ction-now/
PFF itself has also stated that they breakdown the grades before the ALl-22 comes out.
last post.
you or someone else answered your question, the reason King was graded higher had to do with difficulty of assignments and that he also had a pick ( this is so narrow minded of you to say Stokes had the best game by a CB all season, why even add something as inconclusive to this convo)go pak go wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 08:48I think a prudent individual would aggregate all graders and personal watch to form a conclusion rather than just blindly follow one grading system.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 08:41PFF might use alternative methods just as some of the analyst in this article do, whatever, unless Lafluer comes out and disagree's with there grades as he has because he knows who's assigned to whom, then I listen to PFF, cause there rarely off by much.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 08:22
Yes, that is the same replay we get on the broadcast when they show replays, as I have been saying.
No one outside the NFL gets the ALL-22 before PFF posts their grades: https://defector.com/why-does-nfl-game- ... ction-now/
PFF itself has also stated that they breakdown the grades before the ALl-22 comes out.
last post.
I'm not about knocking any particular system. But instead accept this stuff is subjective and also realize that PFF releases their grades INCREDIBLY fast which means there is holes in their review and also likely limited video due to a emphasis on getting grades out quick rather than what they did in prior years.
All of this started based on a question of why Kevin King is rated at Elite but Eric Stokes, who played probably the best overall game by a CB this season, graded at just above average.
I think that is a fair question.
So Kevin King was only allowed to play when the "difficult assignments" were present? He played well. But he played only a third of the actual snaps.Yoop wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 09:30you or someone else answered your question, the reason King was graded higher had to do with difficulty of assignments and that he also had a pick ( this is so narrow minded of you to say Stokes had the best game by a CB all season, why even add something as inconclusive to this convo)go pak go wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 08:48I think a prudent individual would aggregate all graders and personal watch to form a conclusion rather than just blindly follow one grading system.
I'm not about knocking any particular system. But instead accept this stuff is subjective and also realize that PFF releases their grades INCREDIBLY fast which means there is holes in their review and also likely limited video due to a emphasis on getting grades out quick rather than what they did in prior years.
All of this started based on a question of why Kevin King is rated at Elite but Eric Stokes, who played probably the best overall game by a CB this season, graded at just above average.
I think that is a fair question.
I say Rookies start regularly, you say, RARELY, Stokes is proof that rookies start and play well regularly, dunk that in your morning coffee
no one would pay PFF for inacurate grades, not as inacurate as you and others here think they are.
I have to agree, didn't realize King only played 20 snaps.
Like I said. All Packfn23 and I did was ask a question of why PFF graded the way they did.
Any idea whether they include STs snaps to those grades? If yes, could explain some grades that look weird when considering only O or D snaps.go pak go wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 10:37Like I said. All Packfn23 and I did was ask a question of why PFF graded the way they did.
To put Stokes at "above average" and King at Elite grading is strange. LIkely due to the high grade of the INT and low snap count. But when just looking at the grade and comparing it other players, it doesn't do the evaluation justice.
Nothing wrong with questioning grades and evaluations.
They do include ST's.salmar80 wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 10:53Any idea whether they include STs snaps to those grades? If yes, could explain some grades that look weird when considering only O or D snaps.go pak go wrote: ↑16 Nov 2021 10:37Like I said. All Packfn23 and I did was ask a question of why PFF graded the way they did.
To put Stokes at "above average" and King at Elite grading is strange. LIkely due to the high grade of the INT and low snap count. But when just looking at the grade and comparing it other players, it doesn't do the evaluation justice.
Nothing wrong with questioning grades and evaluations.
I also think grading down to a decimal point is kinda hilarious. Patrick Taylor played a total of 4 snaps, 3 on O and one on STs. Getting a 62.9 grade sounds awfully specific for 4 snaps. I kinda imagine the grader going "Now that's a play worth -0.1 points!"