Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 09:29
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Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
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Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 09:54
When people say that Rodgers has carried this franchise and covered up many sins...that defensive draft record is what they are talking about. That abysmal record would sink most franchises to the bottom of the sewer. Not primarily because the resources were put in the defense and the defense was still bad...but because of the opportunity cost of selecting defense so high in the draft and whiffing. Meaning, when you select defense, the offense is not getting new weapons or top options. So, with almost any other player at QB the offense would struggle. However, Rodgers has kept the O productive. So much so that they have covered up for the mid defense, even with limited offensive talent and won regular season games. Most franchises couldnt survive that, and wouldnt be winning divisions. 12 kept Ted and others employed for a lot longer than they would have survived elsewhere.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 11:13
not so much developmental issues as poor scheme fits, Hayward after his rookie season fought for snaps with Hyde and couldn't beat out other CB's on the edge, Dix was a good safety his first 2 seasons, then became a head case and seemed to quit on Capers, and every where else he's went.go pak go wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 09:26Ted hit in 2009 with his two 1st rounders. But his drafting on defense after that (in the top 3 rounds) was pretty poor. I would say it was below average.Yoop wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 09:18right, and we'll have to continue this UFA process or likely we'll decline, it's not so much that Ted missed on high defensive draft picks, it's more then just that, he refused to play the high stakes gamble of using UFA too, I actually think his hit to miss rate was about average when ya take into consideration the slots those players where chosen with, typically above slot 25, which is in affect 2nd and 3rd tier players, the closest Ted got to top 10 slot was Raji in 09.go pak go wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 08:54
We always draft defense early. It has been the Packers goal to have a great defense.
It's just we are now finally hitting on our draft picks and got lucky with FA signings. (namely Z, Amos, Preston, Douglas and Campbell)
It's not that the Packers haven't "done this before" but it's more that they are actually hitting. So correlation of "valuing" a position like you are trying to do doesn't make sense because they are doing the same they've always done for the exception that they are better at doing it in the Gute era.
Here are Ted's top 3 round defensive draft picks 2011 and beyond.
Good Players: Perry, Heyward, Clark, Fackrell - good players drafted. Just didn't properly resign or resigned for too much money and injuries affected them.
Bad Players: Worthy, Datone Jones, Clinton Dix, Thornton, Randall, Rollins, King, Jones, M. Adams - I would classify as bad players. Clinton Dix maybe could be put above but he failed everyhwere he went.
That is 13 players picked in this time. 4 hits and 9 misses. 31% hit rate. And only one was a GREAT pick. Only two players total were resigned after the rookie deal.
That's really poor drafting.
Absolutely Ted didn't take advantage of bringing in UFA's when available, but his foundational error was poor drafting and development on the defensive side of the ball.
seemed like Capers couldn't decide which style front he wanted to use, and it probably had to do with misses on Worthy, Neal, Jones and Thornton, I was grateful when he brought in Peppers.
But I tend to agree Ted didn't do well drafting defenders., and Gute has done well, actually I think better then the norm, and why I said it will be difficult for him to retain his so far success.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 11:15
no, all you need is about 4 really good players and average ability at OL, RB, or about what Rodgers had for half his career
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 11:36
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 11:38
So then the development issues being poor fits would fall in line with the poor "draft" portion of draft and development. Which was my primary point of my post.Yoop wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 11:13not so much developmental issues as poor scheme fits, Hayward after his rookie season fought for snaps with Hyde and couldn't beat out other CB's on the edge, Dix was a good safety his first 2 seasons, then became a head case and seemed to quit on Capers, and every where else he's went.go pak go wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 09:26Ted hit in 2009 with his two 1st rounders. But his drafting on defense after that (in the top 3 rounds) was pretty poor. I would say it was below average.Yoop wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 09:18
right, and we'll have to continue this UFA process or likely we'll decline, it's not so much that Ted missed on high defensive draft picks, it's more then just that, he refused to play the high stakes gamble of using UFA too, I actually think his hit to miss rate was about average when ya take into consideration the slots those players where chosen with, typically above slot 25, which is in affect 2nd and 3rd tier players, the closest Ted got to top 10 slot was Raji in 09.
Here are Ted's top 3 round defensive draft picks 2011 and beyond.
Good Players: Perry, Heyward, Clark, Fackrell - good players drafted. Just didn't properly resign or resigned for too much money and injuries affected them.
Bad Players: Worthy, Datone Jones, Clinton Dix, Thornton, Randall, Rollins, King, Jones, M. Adams - I would classify as bad players. Clinton Dix maybe could be put above but he failed everyhwere he went.
That is 13 players picked in this time. 4 hits and 9 misses. 31% hit rate. And only one was a GREAT pick. Only two players total were resigned after the rookie deal.
That's really poor drafting.
Absolutely Ted didn't take advantage of bringing in UFA's when available, but his foundational error was poor drafting and development on the defensive side of the ball.
seemed like Capers couldn't decide which style front he wanted to use, and it probably had to do with misses on Worthy, Neal, Jones and Thornton, I was grateful when he brought in Peppers.
But I tend to agree Ted didn't do well drafting defenders., and Gute has done well, actually I think better then the norm, and why I said it will be difficult for him to retain his so far success.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 11:51
Another inane back and forth with the yoopster. We have turned it into a drinking game in the garage cave here in Livonia. Unrelated, the Lions fans are talking wildcard here. I hope not but it is a wide open NFC this year.go pak go wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 11:38So then the development issues being poor fits would fall in line with the poor "draft" portion of draft and development. Which was my primary point of my post.Yoop wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 11:13not so much developmental issues as poor scheme fits, Hayward after his rookie season fought for snaps with Hyde and couldn't beat out other CB's on the edge, Dix was a good safety his first 2 seasons, then became a head case and seemed to quit on Capers, and every where else he's went.go pak go wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 09:26
Ted hit in 2009 with his two 1st rounders. But his drafting on defense after that (in the top 3 rounds) was pretty poor. I would say it was below average.
Here are Ted's top 3 round defensive draft picks 2011 and beyond.
Good Players: Perry, Heyward, Clark, Fackrell - good players drafted. Just didn't properly resign or resigned for too much money and injuries affected them.
Bad Players: Worthy, Datone Jones, Clinton Dix, Thornton, Randall, Rollins, King, Jones, M. Adams - I would classify as bad players. Clinton Dix maybe could be put above but he failed everyhwere he went.
That is 13 players picked in this time. 4 hits and 9 misses. 31% hit rate. And only one was a GREAT pick. Only two players total were resigned after the rookie deal.
That's really poor drafting.
Absolutely Ted didn't take advantage of bringing in UFA's when available, but his foundational error was poor drafting and development on the defensive side of the ball.
seemed like Capers couldn't decide which style front he wanted to use, and it probably had to do with misses on Worthy, Neal, Jones and Thornton, I was grateful when he brought in Peppers.
But I tend to agree Ted didn't do well drafting defenders., and Gute has done well, actually I think better then the norm, and why I said it will be difficult for him to retain his so far success.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 11:55
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 12:50
It is so wild that no matter if you put "2022" in the thread, no matter if the thread is about defense or WRs or anything else, the topic of conversation always always always turns to a General Manager who has been literally dead for 4 years and Aaron Rodgers.
Good grief.
I go on twitter and start seeing how Jarran Reed has been even better than advertised in camp to date and how TJ Slaton is quietly making a big 2nd year jump.
The conversation about our DL has gone national, with Mina Kimes loving on Kenny Clark and Ben Fennell responding discussing his usage at NT versus at 3-tech and how the current DL allows them to move him around.
And I see there's a whole new page of chatter about the 2022 defense. I'm thinking maybe the locals who had access to Family Night are talking about how good the defense looks. Or maybe we're talking about how no one has stepped up for EDGE3 yet, oreven maybe some concern about Stokes' practice play up to this point which seems to be a mixed bag.
And I open it up. And it's about Dom Capers and TT's draft picks??
Good grief.
I go on twitter and start seeing how Jarran Reed has been even better than advertised in camp to date and how TJ Slaton is quietly making a big 2nd year jump.
The conversation about our DL has gone national, with Mina Kimes loving on Kenny Clark and Ben Fennell responding discussing his usage at NT versus at 3-tech and how the current DL allows them to move him around.
And I see there's a whole new page of chatter about the 2022 defense. I'm thinking maybe the locals who had access to Family Night are talking about how good the defense looks. Or maybe we're talking about how no one has stepped up for EDGE3 yet, oreven maybe some concern about Stokes' practice play up to this point which seems to be a mixed bag.
And I open it up. And it's about Dom Capers and TT's draft picks??
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 13:52
no one brings stuff here because it will be nit picked apart, and told it's useless information, or be called a liar if any info is wrong.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 13:53
Don't drink and driveRealist wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 11:51Another inane back and forth with the yoopster. We have turned it into a drinking game in the garage cave here in Livonia. Unrelated, the Lions fans are talking wildcard here. I hope not but it is a wide open NFC this year.go pak go wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 11:38So then the development issues being poor fits would fall in line with the poor "draft" portion of draft and development. Which was my primary point of my post.Yoop wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 11:13
not so much developmental issues as poor scheme fits, Hayward after his rookie season fought for snaps with Hyde and couldn't beat out other CB's on the edge, Dix was a good safety his first 2 seasons, then became a head case and seemed to quit on Capers, and every where else he's went.
seemed like Capers couldn't decide which style front he wanted to use, and it probably had to do with misses on Worthy, Neal, Jones and Thornton, I was grateful when he brought in Peppers.
But I tend to agree Ted didn't do well drafting defenders., and Gute has done well, actually I think better then the norm, and why I said it will be difficult for him to retain his so far success.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 14:20
Don't drive and drink eitherYoop wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 13:53Don't drink and drive
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 14:38
haha, get off the stools and buy more tools, is what a past employer told me once, as I was downing a lunch time beerRingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑08 Aug 2022 14:20Don't drive and drink either
truth be told, I had a lot of lunch time beers 
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 14:40
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 15:30
I tend to agree but I don't think he is as bad as advertised. He has as many sb appearances as Aaron. Who knows.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 15:40
so then the amount of SB's a QB plays in determines his ability? QB has never been the main reason Detroit stinks and it's never been the reason why we havn't been to more with Rodgers.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 16:15
I'll change up the subject for Yoho: I'm officially horny for this defense.
Our offense pretty much can't move the ball on them so far in camp.
Reed and Slaton are getting great reports from camp (esp Reed - Herman says we've found a gem). Wyatt is starting to come along. This DL is going to be the best we've had in years.
Our secondary is obviously going to be disgusting - I think since Jaire missed so much last year that people have forgotten that he's the best CB in the league.
We have an all pro in the middle of the defense as the signal caller and a freaky athletic rookie who will open up so many packages for us since we can play two LB's at a time now..
Oh, and Gary has been blowing things up so much that people are talking about DPOY.
Assuming decent health, I can't see how we aren't a top five defense this year.
Our offense pretty much can't move the ball on them so far in camp.
Reed and Slaton are getting great reports from camp (esp Reed - Herman says we've found a gem). Wyatt is starting to come along. This DL is going to be the best we've had in years.
Our secondary is obviously going to be disgusting - I think since Jaire missed so much last year that people have forgotten that he's the best CB in the league.
We have an all pro in the middle of the defense as the signal caller and a freaky athletic rookie who will open up so many packages for us since we can play two LB's at a time now..
Oh, and Gary has been blowing things up so much that people are talking about DPOY.
Assuming decent health, I can't see how we aren't a top five defense this year.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 16:20
I mean, if I were a Lions fan, it would be so tempting to hope for even relevancy, but then I'd remember all the faceplants...
Goff sucks and their D isn't scaring me at all. They have some pieces on O, but can they be consistent with that QB? Naah.
Maybe not last in division, but not much better.
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 16:58
Re: Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts
Posted: 08 Aug 2022 17:05
Add another player to the list who keeps stacking success day after day:
Ladarius Hamilton had another huge day and is positioning himself as a competitor for the #3 Edge rusher. I was concerned about our Edge depth but Hamilton and Tipa have really been making plays.
This defense is absolutely dominating camp so far. Very excited for them. I think however it also comes to say our offense may be slow to start the season.
It's always tough to fully determine what a team will be like in camp, but the tea leaves right now have me believing our defense will be very stout and with an attitude, our offense will be slow to start and our STs will be improved but still having a ways to go.
Ladarius Hamilton had another huge day and is positioning himself as a competitor for the #3 Edge rusher. I was concerned about our Edge depth but Hamilton and Tipa have really been making plays.
This defense is absolutely dominating camp so far. Very excited for them. I think however it also comes to say our offense may be slow to start the season.
It's always tough to fully determine what a team will be like in camp, but the tea leaves right now have me believing our defense will be very stout and with an attitude, our offense will be slow to start and our STs will be improved but still having a ways to go.