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Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 08 Jul 2024 18:12
by RingoCStarrQB
Cdragon wrote: ↑08 Jul 2024 16:15
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑08 Jul 2024 15:59
NCF wrote: ↑08 Jul 2024 11:52
Random question, probably best suited for @RingoCStarrQB. How do the Packers determine eligibility for the Ring of Honor on the façade? Charles Woodson went up because he made the HOF, but he played a good portion of his career with the Raiders. Where does that leave someone like Julius Peppers who is set to be inducted this coming year into Canton? Are there other HOF'ers who have spent chunks of time with Green Bay that have not been honored?
Peppers and Hendricks won't make the facade because the powers that be in Titletown won't let Emlen Tunnell or Jack Vainisi on the facade. Tunnell started 25 games for the Lombardi Packers and received a ring after the Packers defense shut out the Giants 37-0 in the 1961 NFL Championship Game.
You've got to be here for a while and you've got to win. Peppers 3 years in a 17 year career was nice but they didn't win. Emlen won once with us, but 3 years, in an era where most guys had to play with one team for their whole career, doesn't make it, considering we've got guys with 5 rings.
I don't disagree with your or anyone elses logic about Emlen. But I'll forever disagree with the Packers decision makers about Jack Vainisi. Poooooooof!
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 08 Jul 2024 20:27
by Cdragon
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑08 Jul 2024 18:12
Cdragon wrote: ↑08 Jul 2024 16:15
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑08 Jul 2024 15:59
Peppers and Hendricks won't make the facade because the powers that be in Titletown won't let Emlen Tunnell or Jack Vainisi on the facade. Tunnell started 25 games for the Lombardi Packers and received a ring after the Packers defense shut out the Giants 37-0 in the 1961 NFL Championship Game.
You've got to be here for a while and you've got to win. Peppers 3 years in a 17 year career was nice but they didn't win. Emlen won once with us, but 3 years, in an era where most guys had to play with one team for their whole career, doesn't make it, considering we've got guys with 5 rings.
I don't disagree with your or anyone elses logic about Emlen. But I'll forever disagree with the Packers decision makers about Jack Vainisi. Poooooooof!
He was the Architect and his name should be on the building.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 08 Jul 2024 20:42
by Pckfn23
James Lofton
Forrest Gregg
Mike Michalske
Willie Wood
Jim Ringo
Herb Adderly
Clarke Hinkle
Robert (Cal) Hubbard
Henry Jordan
Tony Canadeo
Don Hutson
E.L. (Curly) Lambeau
Johnny (Blood) McNally
Arnie Herber
Vince Lombardi
Willie Davis
Ray Nitschke
Bart Starr
Jim Taylor
Paul Hornung
Reggie White
Brett Favre
Charles Woodson
Leroy Butler
Ron Wolf
Is that the complete list of people on the Facade? The "Ring of Honor" so to speak.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 08 Jul 2024 23:18
by RingoCStarrQB
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑08 Jul 2024 20:42
James Lofton
Forrest Gregg
Mike Michalske
Willie Wood
Jim Ringo
Herb Adderly
Clarke Hinkle
Robert (Cal) Hubbard
Henry Jordan
Tony Canadeo
Don Hutson
E.L. (Curly) Lambeau
Johnny (Blood) McNally
Arnie Herber
Vince Lombardi
Willie Davis
Ray Nitschke
Bart Starr
Jim Taylor
Paul Hornung
Reggie White
Brett Favre
Charles Woodson
Leroy Butler
Ron Wolf
Is that the complete list of people on the Facade? The "Ring of Honor" so to speak.
Ted Thompson is listed as well.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 09 Jul 2024 06:42
by NCF
Dave Robinson and Jerry Kramer.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 09 Jul 2024 07:44
by Cdragon
As far as I can see Lofton is the only guy without a ring and was here a long time with a ton of All-Pro and Pro Bowls.
Sterling Sharpe should probably be added despite not having a ring.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 09 Jul 2024 20:36
by RingoCStarrQB
Cdragon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2024 07:44
As far as I can see Lofton is the only guy without a ring and was here a long time with a ton of All-Pro and Pro Bowls.
Sterling Sharpe should probably be added despite not having a ring.
Sterling will get in I think.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 10 Jul 2024 08:03
by NCF
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑09 Jul 2024 20:36
Cdragon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2024 07:44
As far as I can see Lofton is the only guy without a ring and was here a long time with a ton of All-Pro and Pro Bowls.
Sterling Sharpe should probably be added despite not having a ring.
Sterling will get in I think.
I think so, too. It will take a weaker list of candidates at WR for the senior committee to dig him back up, but it will happen eventually.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 11 Jul 2024 23:36
by paco
NCF wrote: ↑10 Jul 2024 08:03
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑09 Jul 2024 20:36
Cdragon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2024 07:44
As far as I can see Lofton is the only guy without a ring and was here a long time with a ton of All-Pro and Pro Bowls.
Sterling Sharpe should probably be added despite not having a ring.
Sterling will get in I think.
I think so, too. It will take a weaker list of candidates at WR for the senior committee to dig him back up, but it will happen eventually.
When is that going to happen? Real question. I don't see how Sterling ever gets in at this point. I believe he should, but likely gets harder year after year. Might take an 11th hour miracle.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 12 Jul 2024 06:41
by lupedafiasco
I believe with the way WR has taken off recently Sharpe has no shot anymore.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 12 Jul 2024 08:55
by NCF
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑12 Jul 2024 06:41
I believe with the way WR has taken off recently Sharpe has no shot anymore.
Like I said, I think it will take a lack of any viable WR candidate from current seasons, but we are already seeing the HOF WR's watering down what it once was. Some of these guys couldn't hold a candle to Sterling and sooner or later, there will be a push to recognize him.
Pro Football Reference has a HOF tracking score that they use that is predictably reliant on career volume. I will look at this a little bit differently and make some calculations on a per game basis. If you look at 2 different objective scores, HOFm/game and CwAV/game, you can see how dominant he was amongst his peers and what the Average HOF WR ranked. He was Top-15, all-time in players since 1955 in both HOFm/game & CwAV/game.
- image.png (79.04 KiB) Viewed 1026 times
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 12 Jul 2024 09:55
by NCF
Also, for fun, to see if this methodology has any merit, I filtered the list down to only guys who put on the green and gold and then guys who played the majority of their careers here.
- image.png (68.54 KiB) Viewed 1020 times
- image.png (50.99 KiB) Viewed 1020 times
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 12 Jul 2024 10:07
by APB
Any of you stat geeks care to do a career comparison between Sharpe and Calvin Johnson? They both had relatively short but dominant careers. Johnson got into the HOF without hesitation, though, while Sharpe is still awaiting his call.
I'm sure, without looking, that Johnson measures ahead of Sharpe in many categories. I'm interested in how comparable they were, though, playing through the same relative era.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 12 Jul 2024 12:03
by Acrobat
APB wrote: ↑12 Jul 2024 10:07
Any of you stat geeks care to do a career comparison between Sharpe and Calvin Johnson? They both had relatively short but dominant careers. Johnson got into the HOF without hesitation, though, while Sharpe is still awaiting his call.
I'm sure, without looking, that Johnson measures ahead of Sharpe in many categories. I'm interested in how comparable they were, though, playing through the same relative era.
Found this on Twitter:
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 12 Jul 2024 12:25
by NCF
APB wrote: ↑12 Jul 2024 10:07
Any of you stat geeks care to do a career comparison between Sharpe and Calvin Johnson?
Based on what I did, above, Sharpe wins on a per game basis.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 12 Jul 2024 12:33
by Yoop
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑08 Jul 2024 18:12
Cdragon wrote: ↑08 Jul 2024 16:15
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑08 Jul 2024 15:59
Peppers and Hendricks won't make the facade because the powers that be in Titletown won't let Emlen Tunnell or Jack Vainisi on the facade. Tunnell started 25 games for the Lombardi Packers and received a ring after the Packers defense shut out the Giants 37-0 in the 1961 NFL Championship Game.
You've got to be here for a while and you've got to win. Peppers 3 years in a 17 year career was nice but they didn't win. Emlen won once with us, but 3 years, in an era where most guys had to play with one team for their whole career, doesn't make it, considering we've got guys with 5 rings.
I don't disagree with your or anyone elses logic about Emlen. But I'll forever disagree with the Packers decision makers about Jack Vainisi. Poooooooof!
Oljanizak (SP) didn't think a 25 year old deserved to be general manager, (money) and the late great Vince was not about to give up any name recognition to anyone else, yep Jack got screwed, and very little recognition for the job he did out side of Lambeau and GB, Jack has had to settle for teaching every GM ever after that deep diligence pays off, asking council from other football people, ex coaches about players yields successful results, more heads are better then one.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 12 Jul 2024 12:58
by lupedafiasco
APB wrote: ↑12 Jul 2024 10:07
Any of you stat geeks care to do a career comparison between Sharpe and Calvin Johnson? They both had relatively short but dominant careers. Johnson got into the HOF without hesitation, though, while Sharpe is still awaiting his call.
I'm sure, without looking, that Johnson measures ahead of Sharpe in many categories. I'm interested in how comparable they were, though, playing through the same relative era.
Sharpe couldnt hold a candle to Calvin Johnson IMO. The 3 greatest to ever do it was Randy, Rice, and Calvin. I know people will say Rice is the best but he had arguably the best QB play of any WR ever throughout his career. 2 HOFs and pro bowlers in Jeff Garcia and Rich Gannon. Moss had the early parts of his career playing with some pretty &%$@ QBs in Jeff George, Culpepper (he was exposed after losing Moss), and maybe the worst 1st round QB ever in Russell.
As for Calvin he has what Sharpe doesnt and thats something in the record book. Calvin still holds the most receiving yards in a season set in 2012 despite an even bigger boom in the passing game and an extra game tacked onto the season. In terms of being a freak IMO the league never saw a player like Calvin Johnson before.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 12 Jul 2024 13:50
by NCF
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑12 Jul 2024 12:58
As for Calvin he has what Sharpe doesnt and thats something in the record book.
He did, twice. I don't think you can throw that out and say that doesn't stand anymore. I missed out on the Lombardi era, the 70's and most of the 80's, but I got to see the majority of Sterling Sharpe's career. I am here to tell you he certainly holds a candle to what Calvin Johnson achieved with fairly similar circumstances. At his peak, I think there was some legitimate question whether he was just as good or better than Jerry Rice. I don't think any other WR ever had that consideration during Rice's peak.
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 12 Jul 2024 13:58
by NCF
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑12 Jul 2024 12:58
I know people will say Rice is the best but he had arguably the best QB play of any WR ever throughout his career. 2 HOFs and pro bowlers in Jeff Garcia and Rich Gannon. Moss had the early parts of his career playing with some pretty &%$@ QBs in Jeff George, Culpepper (he was exposed after losing Moss), and maybe the worst 1st round QB ever in Russell.
So how do you compare that to Sterling? Basically rookie and journeyman Don Majkowski with one year of MVP-level play, Mike Tomczak, Blair Kiel, Anthony Dilweg, and then 3 years of pre-MVP Brett Favre. He did what he did when our team sucked (ditto Calvin Johnson).
Re: Green Bay Packers' News - 2024
Posted: 12 Jul 2024 14:36
by Acrobat
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑12 Jul 2024 12:58
APB wrote: ↑12 Jul 2024 10:07
Any of you stat geeks care to do a career comparison between Sharpe and Calvin Johnson? They both had relatively short but dominant careers. Johnson got into the HOF without hesitation, though, while Sharpe is still awaiting his call.
I'm sure, without looking, that Johnson measures ahead of Sharpe in many categories. I'm interested in how comparable they were, though, playing through the same relative era.
Sharpe couldnt hold a candle to Calvin Johnson IMO. The 3 greatest to ever do it was Randy, Rice, and Calvin. I know people will say Rice is the best but he had arguably the best QB play of any WR ever throughout his career. 2 HOFs and pro bowlers in Jeff Garcia and Rich Gannon. Moss had the early parts of his career playing with some pretty &%$@ QBs in Jeff George, Culpepper (he was exposed after losing Moss), and maybe the worst 1st round QB ever in Russell.
As for Calvin he has what Sharpe doesnt and thats something in the record book. Calvin still holds the most receiving yards in a season set in 2012 despite an even bigger boom in the passing game and an extra game tacked onto the season. In terms of being a freak IMO the league never saw a player like Calvin Johnson before.
I didn't fear the Packers facing Calvin Johnson the way I did Randy Moss or Jerry Rice, who I will agree are the top 2 of all time. Calvin was awesome, but I never went into a Sunday thinking "Oh Noooo we have to play against Megatron!".