Packers Huddle

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 09:51

What we see from the LBers in zone is the same as what we see in our zones across the board. They are passive and are just occupying their zones. Perfect example is the flats. Regardless if it is a corner, safety, or linebacker the RB check down is given a 10 yard buffer almost all the time. Rally and tackle. The same thing happens in deep middle. Safeties are giving big cushions to not be beaten, rally and tackle. Does this have to do with lacking Alexander and thus playing more Tampa 2? I hope so.

2 things need to happen more. Play the man in your zone (instead of just occupying a zone), and mix up the coverage more.

I can't fully argue with that, and I agree about the safeties. But especially with the LBs there seems to be a lateral aspect when there's a receiver behind them in the zone, they are staying put instead of flowing in that direction and so it's easy to throw between them rather than having to throw over top of them. The middle-of-the-field spacing is just too easy and too stagnant. Feels like our guys are always like a foot away from a batted ball instead of in the way. And that's really a difficult thing to do--to watch the QB but know the route concepts well enough to have a feel for what's behind you. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm just saying getting a guy who is good at that would make a huge change, and I've definitely seen guys who are good at that.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 09:55

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 09:51

What we see from the LBers in zone is the same as what we see in our zones across the board. They are passive and are just occupying their zones. Perfect example is the flats. Regardless if it is a corner, safety, or linebacker the RB check down is given a 10 yard buffer almost all the time. Rally and tackle. The same thing happens in deep middle. Safeties are giving big cushions to not be beaten, rally and tackle. Does this have to do with lacking Alexander and thus playing more Tampa 2? I hope so.

2 things need to happen more. Play the man in your zone (instead of just occupying a zone), and mix up the coverage more.

I can't fully argue with that, and I agree about the safeties. But especially with the LBs there seems to be a lateral aspect when there's a receiver behind them in the zone, they are staying put instead of flowing in that direction and so it's easy to throw between them rather than having to throw over top of them. The middle-of-the-field spacing is just too easy and too stagnant. Feels like our guys are always like a foot away from a batted ball instead of in the way. And that's really a difficult thing to do--to watch the QB but know the route concepts well enough to have a feel for what's behind you. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm just saying getting a guy who is good at that would make a huge change, and I've definitely seen guys who are good at that.

I know it was against Sam Howell, but that was probably the most important thing I noticed from Cooper's play the other night. Just seemed to have a feel for the progression of the play and low and behold, found the football twice. I don't think it's necessary to play the man in a zone, but there does need to be more situational movement within zone schemes. You shouldn't cover 1st and 10 and 3rd and 15 the same way. It sounds simple, but just understanding situations and concepts allows some of our guys to pinch those zones tighter and even beating receivers to their spot. Williams and Cooper have already shown a knack for it, but I would love to see that continue to develop.

When we had the best to ever do it (Woodson), you not only saw excellence from him, but you saw his instincts and preparation rub off on guys like Collins, Williams, and Shields. I hope this defense just continues to build as a unit even if we are a piece or two short, yet.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 09:55

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 09:51

What we see from the LBers in zone is the same as what we see in our zones across the board. They are passive and are just occupying their zones. Perfect example is the flats. Regardless if it is a corner, safety, or linebacker the RB check down is given a 10 yard buffer almost all the time. Rally and tackle. The same thing happens in deep middle. Safeties are giving big cushions to not be beaten, rally and tackle. Does this have to do with lacking Alexander and thus playing more Tampa 2? I hope so.

2 things need to happen more. Play the man in your zone (instead of just occupying a zone), and mix up the coverage more.

I can't fully argue with that, and I agree about the safeties. But especially with the LBs there seems to be a lateral aspect when there's a receiver behind them in the zone, they are staying put instead of flowing in that direction and so it's easy to throw between them rather than having to throw over top of them. The middle-of-the-field spacing is just too easy and too stagnant. Feels like our guys are always like a foot away from a batted ball instead of in the way. And that's really a difficult thing to do--to watch the QB but know the route concepts well enough to have a feel for what's behind you. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm just saying getting a guy who is good at that would make a huge change, and I've definitely seen guys who are good at that.

It's more than just our linebackers right now. I personally believe it is because we are relying too much on cover 2. Cover 2 should be the change up, not the base coverage. In today's NFL, QBs are having no issues with taking what the defense gives them and over the middle short to intermediate throws and throws to the flat are high percentage plays. THAT is what Tampa 2 does not cover well. Specifically the Tampa 2 makes it VERY hard on the Mike. They have to drop deep middle to take away the biggest flaw of the coverage, but at the same time that gives a window in the short to intermediate middle.

Any time a defense becomes predicable it can be beaten. I am HOPING that is what we are seeing with our defense being beaten over the middle so much. HOPING it comes down to getting Alexander back and we can be more unpredictable.

I think Alexander has a ton to do with how soft we are playing defensively. I dont think Hafley trusts these CBs and rightfully so. Stokes and Valentine are not very good players. Stokes just flat out stinks and Valentine has proven to blow a lot of coverages for one reason or another. Nixon is just fine. I dont really mind the way the defense is being called considering right now we are probably fielding one of the leagues worst CB groups.

With Alexander back though you can essentially let him cover a third of the field and let the defense be more aggressive in the other two thirds. I at least hope thats the way things will go but without a doubt I think you are allowed to be more agressive with the safeties when Alexander is back because you dont need to worry about him getting beat so badly.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 09:51

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 09:33

But there's no clear answer in terms of LB awareness. They seem to be out of the passing lanes more often than not. I don't think that's teachable. I think that's instinctive. It can be developed if you become a seasoned vet with great film study, but it's not something you can just "correct" for with some fundamentals and shifts. And it doesn't happen overnight. a LB with great coverage INSTINCTS is high on the priority list for me this offseason (but not, like, another LB with a top 50/60 kind of pick; enough with that)

What we see from the LBers in zone is the same as what we see in our zones across the board. They are passive and are just occupying their zones. Perfect example is the flats. Regardless if it is a corner, safety, or linebacker the RB check down is given a 10 yard buffer almost all the time. Rally and tackle. The same thing happens in deep middle. Safeties are giving big cushions to not be beaten, rally and tackle. Does this have to do with lacking Alexander and thus playing more Tampa 2? I hope so.

2 things need to happen more. Play the man in your zone (instead of just occupying a zone), and mix up the coverage more.

agree, we play zone like Robots, and typically at the back and middle of that coverage zone, we see uncontested catches to often in zone coverage.

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Packers defense currently ranked # 8 in Sack %

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct

Packers defense currently tied for 6th place in Sacks/game

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sacks-per-game

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 10:49

HOPING it comes down to getting Alexander back and we can be more unpredictable.

I think that will happen

Cover-2 is what you play when you don't have confidence in your CBs. Jaire is out, Bullard is out.
Those are 2 key cogs for the pass defense and Hafley has to protect his remaining guys. Nixon has had to swap between outside/slot and Valentine needs more reps before you can really depend on him on an island. When Jaire, Bullard return - I am guessing we'll see less reliance on Cover -2 and it opens up the playbook for Hafley to move X-man around instead of babysitting deep.

BSA wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 12:50

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Packers defense currently ranked # 8 in Sack %

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct

Packers defense currently tied for 6th place in Sacks/game

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sacks-per-game

Surprising to be top 10 in sack % considering our top sacker Gary has mere 6.5 of them, tied 36th in league.

We've been spreading out the sacks like we spread out receptions in our "no WR1" offense.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 16:07

Surprising to be top 10 in sack %

Maybe its surprising if you listen to all the rhetoric, but its not surprising if you look at the facts.
Which is why I always add a link !

I really like your comment about spreading it around.. and Hafley certainly has... with a whopping 16 different defenders recording sacks !
That's absolutely amazing

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... b/2024.htm

BSA wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 16:29

salmar80 wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 16:07

Surprising to be top 10 in sack %

Maybe its surprising if you listen to all the rhetoric, but its not surprising if you look at the facts.
Which is why I always add a link !

I really like your comment about spreading it around.. and Hafley certainly has... with a whopping 16 different defenders recording sacks !
That's absolutely amazing

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... b/2024.htm

I think both things are true. The rhetoric is not that we have no pass rush. It's more about how it disappears for long stretches. And then we have games like Tennessee and Seattle where we beat the heck out of a struggling OL and boost the numbers in short bursts. I know all games count, but I'd be interested to see what the sack percentage looks like minus those two games.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2024 09:03

BSA wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 16:29

salmar80 wrote: ↑

17 Dec 2024 16:07

Surprising to be top 10 in sack %

Maybe its surprising if you listen to all the rhetoric, but its not surprising if you look at the facts.
Which is why I always add a link !

I really like your comment about spreading it around.. and Hafley certainly has... with a whopping 16 different defenders recording sacks !
That's absolutely amazing

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... b/2024.htm

I think both things are true. The rhetoric is not that we have no pass rush. It's more about how it disappears for long stretches. And then we have games like Tennessee and Seattle where we beat the heck out of a struggling OL and boost the numbers in short bursts. I know all games count, but I'd be interested to see what the sack percentage looks like minus those two games.

A more interesting question would be if it is mostly true for all NFL teams?

Lmao...

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2024 09:06

A more interesting question would be if it is mostly true for all NFL teams?

It is.
NFL D-Lines feast on lesser OL, NFL CBs intercept lesser QBs.
That's always been the case and its true for all teams. You don't make a living intercepting/sacking the best teams

But here's the thing, the Packers have faced the 2nd toughest SOS in the entire league - and have still delivered exemplary results

http://sagarin.com/sports/nflsend.htm

Labrev wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2024 12:15

Lmao...

Aint no way.

Labrev wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2024 12:15

Lmao...

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PackersWire with some cut-ups on Kingsley Enagbare's remarkable performance vs Seattle


https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2024/1 ... ter-drive/

"Green Bay Packers edge rusher Kingsley Enagbare is in the midst of what will likely turn out to be his best NFL season so far. With three regular season games to go, he has already posted career highs for sacks and forced fumbles and is on pace for new personal bests in tackles and quarterback pressures."

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That's our DC!!

This guy is wrong about the Cover 2 being a change up, but I do want to see more cover 3, just for the fact he highlights.

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Carrington Valentine hit the trifecta this week -
"CV" earned positive comments from MLF, Hafley and Bisaccia in their respective pressers

A bit of coachspeak ?
Sure - but all 3 have all lauded his play and mentioned how he is coming on strong at the right time