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I think it definitely goes into it. But add in Kumerow and various other decisions that didn't get mentioned to Rodgers and its built up to a breaking point for him. Money won't fix this. Reversing all of this and giving him the say he wants may not fix this.
Packers have to decide how badly they want Rodgers. Rodgers needs to decide if he can forgive and move forward. At this point, it doesn't sound like Rodgers is budging. I doubt the Packers are willing to go far enough to entice him.
But also... that's a completely unreasonable stance. Like personnel control over who makes the final roster? That's the stuff that coaches and GMs wrestle over. It is NOT a QB's call at all, ever.
So if Rodgers can't get over it, he's not going to play anywhere and get what he wants. Ever. He's just being dumb and trying to flex to demand something no one would ever give a player. It will go no where and there is no reason for the team to do anything until next year's draft whether Rodgers plays or not. Rodgers can be the guy who throws away his best shot at a Super Bowl because Jake Kumerow and Jordy Nelson got released. Live with that legacy.
come on your using extreme language here, how about Rodgers would have liked to give his input prior to Guty shipping Kumerow out, same with some of the other decisions, Guty said he would welcome that input, but obviously that does not seem the case in live time.
also the Hawk comments, also what BSA has said about Dunn being the leaker, that stuff makes more sense then Rodger driving a bus over himself the team and his fans.
Murphy and Gutey have had a weird kink with making sure the world knows that Rodgers is not in control, they are in control. They are reaping what they have sewn.
Most egregious case of this is the leak from the org where they made sure the word knew they told 12 to “not be the problem”, and that he had no idea who is coach would be.
Also when they fired his QB coach that he loved.
But, like, Rodgers shouldn't have a say in who the head coach was. They were hiring his BOSS. You don't get to hire your own boss. Rodgers is not in control. So of course the narrative when everyone asked about the process was that Rodgers is not in control. It's not a kink. It's honest. Like "Does Aaron have a say in who the next head coach will be?" "No"
That's honest and is totally how it should be. You don't "reap what you sew" when what you sew is not giving in to a whiny brat who thinks he should be a GMcoach. Rodgers has a direct line to MLF and Gutey any time he wants it, and has used it. If they don't listen to his advice, that's not a kink for showing him who's in charge. That's literally just being in charge.
what about this situation gives you any indication that Rodgers is acting within any bounds of "reason"?
Relative reason based on what equivalent players have (Brady). But until we hear exactly what he's asking for, we'll never know.
My thought is them running potential decisions past him for his input is reasonable. He doesn't make the final decision. But Rodgers saying he likes Kumerow more than say Malik Taylor should be brought into the conversation. Also calling him before drafting Love and explaining the thought process isn't over stepping.
But Rodgers, after giving an opinion, if the decision still doesn't go his way needs to live with it. It's an extra layer of communication that someone like Rodgers has probably earned. If you trust him to call plays, you should trust him to have an opinion on the guys he's throwing to.
also the Hawk comments, also what BSA has said about Dunn being the leaker, that stuff makes more sense then Rodger driving a bus over himself the team and his fans.
If Rodgers is upset about the leak and the leak came from his agent, he has to fire his agent today.
I'm using extreme language because Rodgers has everything anyone could possibly want and expect and is unhappy, so the only rational conclusion is that he wants something irrational and unreasonable.
Like honestly, MLF loves him. They connected big time. Gutey and MLF have always indicated that their doors are open for players and have always indicated that they have tons of conversations with Rodgers about all sorts of things, and that it is a waste if they don't lean on his knowledge and experience and expertise. There is no indication that they've not listened to him, only that they make decisions with everyone's input in mind.
Hiring MLF was the best thing this org could have done for Rodgers' career and legacy and Rodgers wouldn't have advocated for it and probably didn't if/when he was involved in the coaching search conversations. It's other people's job to put Rodgers in a position to succeed and they did that when they hired MLF.
That they fired the QB coach he loved when Rodgers clearly wasn't playing his best, that they cut a STer who had next to no production on offense despite ample efforts, that they cut Jordy when his juice was totally sapped... these moves are made to put Rodgers in position to succeed. And everything they've been doing in that regard has worked. The #1 offense in the league, and the MVP. Yes, that's a Rodgers accomplishment, but it's also a team accomplishment and one that was NOT happening 2 years ago, 3 years ago, 4 years ago.
The professionals hired to do a job did it. And they did it well. And Rodgers is unhappy that they didn't do it well the WAY he wanted them to do it well.
Again though, this goes back to one of my basic points. Prior to 2020, Rodgers was personally tanking the team due to pettiness. Rodgers torpedoed the offense to get Mac fired.
Do you ever hear Chris Collinsworth talk about Mahomes needing absolute perfection at everything before he'd even begin to consider throwing the ball to that receiver? Or Brady? Or Brees? Or any other QB? That isn't a thing, Rodgers is just a petty baby and made it a thing, throwing to players only he likes.
We all know Janis was basically the last iteration of MVS, and that #12 absolutely refused to involve him until there was noone left and it was the playoffs. Janis was basically better than MVS at everything; just as fast, better at finding and catching the ball.
Rodgers set aside his issues last year for the season, but it looks like its all flooding back again. He has a pretty serious personality disorder that has gone downhill pretty rapidly in the last few years, treat someone like a god for so many years then they start to think they are one.
Murphy and Gutey have had a weird kink with making sure the world knows that Rodgers is not in control, they are in control. They are reaping what they have sewn.
Most egregious case of this is the leak from the org where they made sure the word knew they told 12 to “not be the problem”, and that he had no idea who is coach would be.
Also when they fired his QB coach that he loved.
But, like, Rodgers shouldn't have a say in who the head coach was. They were hiring his BOSS. You don't get to hire your own boss. Rodgers is not in control. So of course the narrative when everyone asked about the process was that Rodgers is not in control. It's not a kink. It's honest. Like "Does Aaron have a say in who the next head coach will be?" "No"
That's honest and is totally how it should be. You don't "reap what you sew" when what you sew is not giving in to a whiny brat who thinks he should be a GMcoach. Rodgers has a direct line to MLF and Gutey any time he wants it, and has used it. If they don't listen to his advice, that's not a kink for showing him who's in charge. That's literally just being in charge.
yoho when the FO leaves it up to the QB to force a coaching change, then the FO ought to at least listen to him and make sure the new coach becomes a workable transition with the QB. we talk all the time here about coaching adjusting to the players he has to work with, it's the same thing in reverse, of course Rodger doesn't have final say, but that is how this stuff is suppose to be done, specually when it's a player like Rodgers.
also the Hawk comments, also what BSA has said about Dunn being the leaker, that stuff makes more sense then Rodger driving a bus over himself the team and his fans.
If Rodgers is upset about the leak and the leak came from his agent, he has to fire his agent today.
I'm using extreme language because Rodgers has everything anyone could possibly want and expect and is unhappy, so the only rational conclusion is that he wants something irrational and unreasonable.
Like honestly, MLF loves him. They connected big time. Gutey and MLF have always indicated that their doors are open for players and have always indicated that they have tons of conversations with Rodgers about all sorts of things, and that it is a waste if they don't lean on his knowledge and experience and expertise. There is no indication that they've not listened to him, only that they make decisions with everyone's input in mind.
Hiring MLF was the best thing this org could have done for Rodgers' career and legacy and Rodgers wouldn't have advocated for it and probably didn't if/when he was involved in the coaching search conversations. It's other people's job to put Rodgers in a position to succeed and they did that when they hired MLF.
That they fired the QB coach he loved when Rodgers clearly wasn't playing his best, that they cut a STer who had next to no production on offense despite ample efforts, that they cut Jordy when his juice was totally sapped... these moves are made to put Rodgers in position to succeed. And everything they've been doing in that regard has worked. The #1 offense in the league, and the MVP. Yes, that's a Rodgers accomplishment, but it's also a team accomplishment and one that was NOT happening 2 years ago, 3 years ago, 4 years ago.
The professionals hired to do a job did it. And they did it well. And Rodgers is unhappy that they didn't do it well the WAY he wanted them to do it well.
Murphy and Gutey have had a weird kink with making sure the world knows that Rodgers is not in control, they are in control. They are reaping what they have sewn.
Most egregious case of this is the leak from the org where they made sure the word knew they told 12 to “not be the problem”, and that he had no idea who is coach would be.
Also when they fired his QB coach that he loved.
But, like, Rodgers shouldn't have a say in who the head coach was. They were hiring his BOSS. You don't get to hire your own boss. Rodgers is not in control. So of course the narrative when everyone asked about the process was that Rodgers is not in control. It's not a kink. It's honest. Like "Does Aaron have a say in who the next head coach will be?" "No"
That's honest and is totally how it should be. You don't "reap what you sew" when what you sew is not giving in to a whiny brat who thinks he should be a GMcoach. Rodgers has a direct line to MLF and Gutey any time he wants it, and has used it. If they don't listen to his advice, that's not a kink for showing him who's in charge. That's literally just being in charge.
As I have said before, you are right in a perfect world.
You are even right when dealing with 99% of nfl players.
But if you have a HOF QB who may be a little needy, playcate the guy. Make him feel important. Dont leak that you told the HOF QB not to be the problem. Dont cut the coach that he loves.
Involve him in the HC search, and then make a final decision with his input in mind whether in the end you do what he wants or not.
These may not be normal things you have to do, but it is how you keep a HOF QB that just won an MVP from not nuking your SB window. You can hold firm on your principles, or you can bend the knee a bit in non significant ways to keep the guy happy.
In the end, this all comes down to Jordan Love. If the guy can play, Gutey will leave this unscathed. If he cannot play, he will never be a GM again. Might as well get out of football completely.
Again though, this goes back to one of my basic points. Prior to 2020, Rodgers was personally tanking the team due to pettiness. Rodgers torpedoed the offense to get Mac fired.
Do you ever hear Chris Collinsworth talk about Mahomes needing absolute perfection at everything before he'd even begin to consider throwing the ball to that receiver? Or Brady? Or Brees? Or any other QB? That isn't a thing, Rodgers is just a petty baby and made it a thing, throwing to players only he likes.
We all know Janis was basically the last iteration of MVS, and that #12 absolutely refused to involve him until there was noone left and it was the playoffs. Janis was basically better than MVS at everything; just as fast, better at finding and catching the ball.
Rodgers set aside his issues last year for the season, but it looks like its all flooding back again. He has a pretty serious personality disorder that has gone downhill pretty rapidly in the last few years, treat someone like a god for so many years then they start to think they are one.
And he may well be a bit sour that he isn't getting the special treatment he knew Favre got. I don't remember all of it but I know Favre had his own separate room for his locker (or something like that). And plenty of other things I'm sure. Packers learned from that and stopped the special treatment and now Rodgers wants some of it.
also the Hawk comments, also what BSA has said about Dunn being the leaker, that stuff makes more sense then Rodger driving a bus over himself the team and his fans.
If Rodgers is upset about the leak and the leak came from his agent, he has to fire his agent today.
I'm using extreme language because Rodgers has everything anyone could possibly want and expect and is unhappy, so the only rational conclusion is that he wants something irrational and unreasonable.
Like honestly, MLF loves him. They connected big time. Gutey and MLF have always indicated that their doors are open for players and have always indicated that they have tons of conversations with Rodgers about all sorts of things, and that it is a waste if they don't lean on his knowledge and experience and expertise. There is no indication that they've not listened to him, only that they make decisions with everyone's input in mind.
Hiring MLF was the best thing this org could have done for Rodgers' career and legacy and Rodgers wouldn't have advocated for it and probably didn't if/when he was involved in the coaching search conversations. It's other people's job to put Rodgers in a position to succeed and they did that when they hired MLF.
That they fired the QB coach he loved when Rodgers clearly wasn't playing his best, that they cut a STer who had next to no production on offense despite ample efforts, that they cut Jordy when his juice was totally sapped... these moves are made to put Rodgers in position to succeed. And everything they've been doing in that regard has worked. The #1 offense in the league, and the MVP. Yes, that's a Rodgers accomplishment, but it's also a team accomplishment and one that was NOT happening 2 years ago, 3 years ago, 4 years ago.
The professionals hired to do a job did it. And they did it well. And Rodgers is unhappy that they didn't do it well the WAY he wanted them to do it well.
Lots of good perspectives being posted. I think Rodgers looks like a turd, because he honestly probably is one. And I think the org could have done MUCH more to playcate and keep the HOF QB from getting to this point...because guess what..the teams needs him. We are much better with him.
Unless Love is a star. Then Gutey and all are forgiven. Gutey better pray that J Love is competent.
I mean seriously, all this respect nonsense, all the behind the scenes leaks; he's acting like a teenage girl.
Adulting and acting like one apparently is not his thing.
please Waldo, name all these Athletes that act differently, Brady did it, Manning, Wilson, they all after running the team for years want more control, heck Rodgers had to force Guty to get rid of McCarthy, or he'd probably still be here, why shouldn't he get a heads up with the hire of a new one, and back in 017 he's left suttle hints (as did other players) that changes needed to happen, for all we know he could have meant a coaching change when he said that stuff, from his actions after a few games in 018 that seemed obvious
AR may be a spoiled brat, but imo thats quite common.
Again [mention]Yoop[/mention] : What good would it do to give AR the chance to give input over personnel decisions, if you don't also give him authority!?
Gutey: "Hi, Aaron, we need to clear a roster spot for a special teamer, I'm thinking we'll cut Kumerow."
AR: "I like Kumerow, he's my friend and great at practice. Let's not cut him."
Gutey: "Thanks for your input. I value it greatly. I'm cutting Kumerow anyways. The dude's producing nothing in games."
AR: "Well gee, thanks for listening to my input! Much appreciated you asked me first! I'll just go say bye to Jake."
Gutey: "No problem! We'll get back to you with the next personnel decision."
There's no way having "just input" would keep him happy. I mean, if that were possible, why the hell not. Run every D personnel decision by Z, Alexander and Clark while you're at it.
The thing I find reasonable would be to communicate the reasoning behind moves better. Take a minute to explain why Kumerow and not some other guy. Why Love and the plan with it.
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Brady doesn't have say over personnel apart from being a magnet for his FA friends. AR could do that if he had friends like that. TB just drafted defense in the 1st and a QB in 2nd, they sure as heck didn't pander to his wishes there! Hell, the guy has a million rings. Somebody, tell me about the times NE pandered to Tom's wishes?
Sal, I think this is what we need clarification on from Aaron. What does he want? MLF and Gutey have both said they welcome his input. Does Aaron want more input? Does he want them to come to him instead of waiting for Aaron to go to them? Or does he want to be a decision maker?
We don't know what Aaron is like in the locker room or in a meeting room. If he coy, sly, and sarcastic like he is in interviews? Or does he come out and say what he really means and what he wants? Until we know the level of input he wants, we can't figure out what makes sense or not.
The thing I find reasonable would be to communicate the reasoning behind moves better. Take a minute to explain why Kumerow and not some other guy. Why Love and the plan with it.
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Brady doesn't have say over personnel apart from being a magnet for his FA friends. AR could do that if he had friends like that. TB just drafted defense in the 1st and a QB in 2nd, they sure as heck didn't pander to his wishes there! Hell, the guy has a million rings. Tell me about the times NE pandered to Tom's wishes?
Again @Yoop : What good would it do to give AR the chance to give input over personnel decisions, if you don't also give him authority!?
Gutey: "Hi, Aaron, we need to clear a roster spot for a special teamer, I'm thinking we'll cut Kumerow."
AR: "I like Kumerow, he's my friend and great at practice. Let's not cut him."
Gutey: "Thanks for your input. I value it greatly. I'm cutting Kumerow anyways. The dude's producing nothing in games."
AR: "Well gee, thanks for listening to my input! Much appreciated you asked me first! I'll just go say bye to Jake."
Gutey: "No problem! We'll get back to you with the next personnel decision."
There's no way having "just input" would keep him happy. I mean, if that were possible, why the hell not. Run every D personnel decision by Z, Alexander and Clark while you're at it.
The thing I find reasonable would be to communicate the reasoning behind moves better. Take a minute to explain why Kumerow and not some other guy. Why Love and the plan with it.
-------
Brady doesn't have say over personnel apart from being a magnet for his FA friends. AR could do that if he had friends like that. TB just drafted defense in the 1st and a QB in 2nd, they sure as heck didn't pander to his wishes there! Hell, the guy has a million rings. Tell me about the times NE pandered to Tom's wishes?
wow, you have to know that two heads are better then one, it's possible Rodgers would lend something to the conversation that would change Gutys mind, Rodgers isn't some dummy, he knows the X & O stuff as well as most coaches, watches more film as well, if ther ever was a players coach Rodgers would be a candidate, you vastly discount Rodgers when you think his input shouldn't be valued.
heck Rodgers had to force Guty to get rid of McCarthy, or he'd probably still be here,
I don't understand how 24 hours ago I can lay out evidence showing the Packers were likely moving in the direction of moving on from MM anyways which gets accepted and then today it was once again Rodgers who got rid of McCarthy.
Did Rodgers make the Buffalo post game presser comment? Yes.
But Mac got fired because the Packers stunk. Mac also likely wasn't going to be resigned anyways if the Packers missed the playoffs which they didn't and had no real shot of doing. The Packers were well on their way of moving beyond McCarthy with or without Aaron's input. Mark Murphy made the call to fire Mike McCarthy.
Last edited by go pak go on 03 May 2021 13:23, edited 1 time in total.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think that if I'm Jordan Love, I'd fire David Dunn. Unless he had a big heads up that his life was about to turn on its head. Regardless of who leaked what, David Dunn knew about this.
Sal, I think this is what we need clarification on from Aaron. What does he want? MLF and Gutey have both said they welcome his input. Does Aaron want more input? Does he want them to come to him instead of waiting for Aaron to go to them? Or does he want to be a decision maker?
We don't know what Aaron is like in the locker room or in a meeting room. If he coy, sly, and sarcastic like he is in interviews? Or does he come out and say what he really means and what he wants? Until we know the level of input he wants, we can't figure out what makes sense or not.
I think my issue right now is that the fact that Rodgers HASN'T clarified anything is clarifying in its own right. It speaks volumes. He had a national reporter with a microphone in his face at the Derby Saturday. He has his buddy on a widely-listened to radio show speaking for him today and Pat McAfee would GLADLY have brought him on to say whatever he wanted. He's had a day to get over the mint julep hangover if he just wanted to enjoy his derby and not focus on this. He's definitely seen his head coach almost cry on national television trying to answer questions about this.
And he's silent. That's all I need to know about who's in the right here. If he had something good to say and if he isn't being as petty as is being reported, he would say so. Other people's jobs hang in the balance. And he hasn't said a thing.
