Packers Huddle

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 10:55**

Yoop wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 10:20
whaaaa???? they've had at least 2 all pro receivers the last 6 years,

They did not last year when they won the SB.

and drafted 1 in the 2nd round the last 2 years.

So what? We did too, and our pick (Watson) was MUCH better than theirs, Skyy Moore (state line: 22 rec/250 yd/0 TDs... also 3 fumbles, which were all recovered by the other team). Heck, our Round 4 WR was better.

It's absurd to complain that we don't invest enough resources into WR and hold up KC as some great example. KC doesn't invest in receivers at the level you want. They hit on Hill and Kelce years ago, neither were high picks, and were content to take for granted that they had those two great receivers. They didn't keep drafting WRs early every year or two like you insist we HAVE to.

We actually invested more into the position than they did. They got better value, drafting Hill and Kelce low and getting amazing players, but we had more quality receivers than they did. They had basically no one after those two; they had to sign MVS from us.

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 10:59**

Yoop wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 10:31
I'am not militant about this, anyone who thinks our WR room was sufficient between 2015 and 2022 is on crack for christ sakes, get out with your name calling.

lets get this straight, anyone here that supports building a team spending every high pick on defense is the militant one, anyone that supports having Adams and a bunch of very raw talent to end a HOF QB's career I consider the militant ones.

What I mean is, I recognize that there is more than one way to field playoff/championship-caliber team. You OTOH seem to only accept one specific model of team-building. I am open to all. You, not so much...

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 11:21**

Labrev wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 10:59

Yoop wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 10:31
I'am not militant about this, anyone who thinks our WR room was sufficient between 2015 and 2022 is on crack for christ sakes, get out with your name calling.

lets get this straight, anyone here that supports building a team spending every high pick on defense is the militant one, anyone that supports having Adams and a bunch of very raw talent to end a HOF QB's career I consider the militant ones.
What I mean is, I recognize that there is more than one way to field playoff/championship-caliber team. You OTOH seem to only accept one specific model of team-building. I am open to all. You, not so much...

I use to think like you, great defense and run the ball,( and that can still work) then I grew up.

since the live ball era and the onslaught of the spread offense being able to score points quickly is the easier path to take, and we've basically been seeing just that, it is near impossible to build and keep together a great defense, where as, as long as you have a very good QB, a decent pass pro OL and a couple very good receivers you should be able to compete for the trophy every season.

what made Ted such a great GM imo is that he new that right from the start, he supplied the offense with players that could change the course of a game in one play, and then rebuilt his defense, he kept adding those type players practically every season for half his rein as GM.

as to the last couple drafts with Guty drafting receivers, imo that was long over do, and that opinion is shared by most football talking heads

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 11:26**

Yoop wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 11:21

Labrev wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 10:59

Yoop wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 10:31
I'am not militant about this, anyone who thinks our WR room was sufficient between 2015 and 2022 is on crack for christ sakes, get out with your name calling.

lets get this straight, anyone here that supports building a team spending every high pick on defense is the militant one, anyone that supports having Adams and a bunch of very raw talent to end a HOF QB's career I consider the militant ones.
What I mean is, I recognize that there is more than one way to field playoff/championship-caliber team. You OTOH seem to only accept one specific model of team-building. I am open to all. You, not so much...
I use to think like you, great defense and run the ball,( and that can still work) then I grew up.

since the live ball era and the onslaught of the spread offense being able to score points quickly is the easier path to take, and we've basically been seeing just that, it is near impossible to build and keep together a great defense, where as, as long as you have a very good QB, a decent pass pro OL and a couple very good receivers you should be able to compete for the trophy every season.

what made Ted such a great GM imo is that he new that right from the start, he supplied the offense with players that could change the course of a game in one play, and then rebuilt his defense, he kept adding those type players practically every season for half his rein as GM.

as to the last couple drafts with Guty drafting receivers, imo that was long over do, and that opinion is shared by most football talking heads

What I find interesting is your comment in the 3rd paragraph about Ted, yet he never used a 1st round pick on a WR, and didn't draft a WR high in the draft in his last 3 years, which actually would have been a great time to reload because Jordy and Cobb were showing signs of slowing down. So when it comes to your core argument that we wasted Rodger's prime by not supplying him with enough talent at WR, in theory, Ted would be the one to blame for the last 5-6 years.

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 12:01**

Acrobat wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 11:26

Yoop wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 11:21

Labrev wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 10:59

What I mean is, I recognize that there is more than one way to field playoff/championship-caliber team. You OTOH seem to only accept one specific model of team-building. I am open to all. You, not so much...
I use to think like you, great defense and run the ball,( and that can still work) then I grew up.

since the live ball era and the onslaught of the spread offense being able to score points quickly is the easier path to take, and we've basically been seeing just that, it is near impossible to build and keep together a great defense, where as, as long as you have a very good QB, a decent pass pro OL and a couple very good receivers you should be able to compete for the trophy every season.

what made Ted such a great GM imo is that he new that right from the start, he supplied the offense with players that could change the course of a game in one play, and then rebuilt his defense, he kept adding those type players practically every season for half his rein as GM.

as to the last couple drafts with Guty drafting receivers, imo that was long over do, and that opinion is shared by most football talking heads
What I find interesting is your comment in the 3rd paragraph about Ted, yet he never used a 1st round pick on a WR, and didn't draft a WR high in the draft in his last 3 years, which actually would have been a great time to reload because Jordy and Cobb were showing signs of slowing down. So when it comes to your core argument that we wasted Rodger's prime by not supplying him with enough talent at WR, in theory, Ted would be the one to blame for the last 5-6 years.

I never said a word you just said I did, don't put words in I didn't use, ya don't have to use a 1st on a wr, but you shouldn't rely on 4th rounder either.

It was a fail to not use a high pick on a player like Watson sooner

and my argument isn't that we wasted Rodgers prime years, in fact it's the opposite, what we did for Rodgers when he was young should have never stopped, imho it cost us at least 2 super bowls

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 12:36**

Yoop wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 12:01

Acrobat wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 11:26

Yoop wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 11:21

I use to think like you, great defense and run the ball,( and that can still work) then I grew up.

since the live ball era and the onslaught of the spread offense being able to score points quickly is the easier path to take, and we've basically been seeing just that, it is near impossible to build and keep together a great defense, where as, as long as you have a very good QB, a decent pass pro OL and a couple very good receivers you should be able to compete for the trophy every season.

what made Ted such a great GM imo is that he new that right from the start, he supplied the offense with players that could change the course of a game in one play, and then rebuilt his defense, he kept adding those type players practically every season for half his rein as GM.

as to the last couple drafts with Guty drafting receivers, imo that was long over do, and that opinion is shared by most football talking heads
What I find interesting is your comment in the 3rd paragraph about Ted, yet he never used a 1st round pick on a WR, and didn't draft a WR high in the draft in his last 3 years, which actually would have been a great time to reload because Jordy and Cobb were showing signs of slowing down. So when it comes to your core argument that we wasted Rodger's prime by not supplying him with enough talent at WR, in theory, Ted would be the one to blame for the last 5-6 years.
I never said a word you just said I did, don't put words in I didn't use, ya don't have to use a 1st on a wr, but you shouldn't rely on 4th rounder either.

It was a fail to not use a high pick on a player like Watson sooner

and my argument isn't that we wasted Rodgers prime years, in fact it's the opposite, what we did for Rodgers when he was young should have never stopped, imho it cost us at least 2 super bowls

Yep, that's why I found your comment about Ted interesting, because drafts are always to prepare for 3 years in the future, so if anything, he should have had more insight into the fact that Jordy wasn't the same after his ACL and that Cobb was slowing down. So in theory, if you were to want to prepare for a shortage of WR's, the 2015/2016 drafts were really the ones to strike on a 1st or 2nd round WR since it sometimes takes a couple years for them to develop.

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 12:45**

Is it Wide Receiver Fever season again....in July?

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 12:55**

Still always enjoy seeing these.

No dice on the WR front this year.

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 13:01**

Oh great just what this thread needed, fuel to further relitigate "muh JEFFTAIN JUSTINSON!!!"

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 13:08**

Acrobat wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 12:36

Yoop wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 12:01

Acrobat wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 11:26

What I find interesting is your comment in the 3rd paragraph about Ted, yet he never used a 1st round pick on a WR, and didn't draft a WR high in the draft in his last 3 years, which actually would have been a great time to reload because Jordy and Cobb were showing signs of slowing down. So when it comes to your core argument that we wasted Rodger's prime by not supplying him with enough talent at WR, in theory, Ted would be the one to blame for the last 5-6 years.
I never said a word you just said I did, don't put words in I didn't use, ya don't have to use a 1st on a wr, but you shouldn't rely on 4th rounder either.

It was a fail to not use a high pick on a player like Watson sooner

and my argument isn't that we wasted Rodgers prime years, in fact it's the opposite, what we did for Rodgers when he was young should have never stopped, imho it cost us at least 2 super bowls
Yep, that's why I found your comment about Ted interesting, because drafts are always to prepare for 3 years in the future, so if anything, he should have had more insight into the fact that Jordy wasn't the same after his ACL and that Cobb was slowing down. So in theory, if you were to want to prepare for a shortage of WR's, the 2015/2016 drafts were really the ones to strike on a 1st or 2nd round WR since it sometimes takes a couple years for them to develop.

that is about exactly what I've said for years now Acrobat,

yet most here fought me about that, I tend to disagree that a draft is only expected to produce 3 years after said draft though, what separates players from 1 round to the next isn't just talent expectations, it's about ready to play status, as we saw just last year, rookies can stud out almost instantly, hell even a TE can pop for a K as a rookie, and we see all rookie teams loaded with starters from every draft class, imo it's the later (3 through 7 and UDFA) that take longer to shine, if ever they do

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 13:11**

Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 12:45
Is it Wide Receiver Fever season again....in July?

I didn't know there was a season minus a receiver Fever, I'd pick a receiver in the first or second round every season, when the roster is bloated I'd trade one or two, you know, sorta how we did it with QB's in the Wolfer days

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 13:14**

Labrev wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 13:01
Oh great just what this thread needed, fuel to further relitigate "muh JEFFTAIN JUSTINSON!!!"

whatcha got against talking about WR's, specially dat guy, there shouldn't be a push back of talking about talent on a Packers football forum, after all we are in the Huddle here, pull your knickers up

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 13:24**

Yoop wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 13:08

Acrobat wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 12:36

Yoop wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 12:01

I never said a word you just said I did, don't put words in I didn't use, ya don't have to use a 1st on a wr, but you shouldn't rely on 4th rounder either.

It was a fail to not use a high pick on a player like Watson sooner

and my argument isn't that we wasted Rodgers prime years, in fact it's the opposite, what we did for Rodgers when he was young should have never stopped, imho it cost us at least 2 super bowls
Yep, that's why I found your comment about Ted interesting, because drafts are always to prepare for 3 years in the future, so if anything, he should have had more insight into the fact that Jordy wasn't the same after his ACL and that Cobb was slowing down. So in theory, if you were to want to prepare for a shortage of WR's, the 2015/2016 drafts were really the ones to strike on a 1st or 2nd round WR since it sometimes takes a couple years for them to develop.
that is about exactly what I've said for years now Acrobat, yet most here fought me about that, I tend to disagree that a draft is only expected to produce 3 years after said draft though, what separates players from 1 round to the next isn't just talent expectations, it's about ready to play status, as we saw just last year, rookies can stud out almost instantly, hell even a TE can pop for a K as a rookie, and we see all rookie teams loaded with starters from every draft class, imo it's the later (3 through 7 and UDFA) that take longer to shine, if ever they do

I think what happened was that Gutey saw quite a few holes when he started his tenure, and felt so good about the later round WR's he drafted that he decided to give them time to develop. In hindsight, Ted should have probably pulled the trigger in 2016 on at least a 2nd round WR and then Gutey probably again in 2019 since it looked like MVS was the only one from that group that was going to produce.

So many moving parts though. Lazard obviously became a key player in 2019 as well as MVS. So sometimes you have to play to your surroundings too as in 2022, Lazard and MVS along with Tonyan at TE looked like awesome role players along side one of the best WR's in the game, so it was easier to focus on other positions of need in Free Agency and the draft.

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 14:06**

Yoop wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 13:11

Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 12:45
Is it Wide Receiver Fever season again....in July?

I didn't know there was a season minus a receiver Fever, I'd pick a receiver in the first or second round every season, when the roster is bloated I'd trade one or two, you know, sorta how we did it with QB's in the Wolfer days

Let's be real, [mention]Yoop[/mention]

If you were GM, you'd pick a WR, ILB, safety and DL in the first round every year (not alternating picks; one of each every year because other teams are just dying to trade us their 1st rd draft picks), resign Aaron Rodgers to a 15 yr extension, and still have Dom Capers calling shots on defense while supplying him with top draft capital every year outside of the annual 1st rd WR picks.

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 14:44**

So above all show you prioritize WR, defense, offensive line and running game first but only when you already have an All-Pro QB.

Like KC did when their highest paid WR last year wasn't worth a #3 or #4 WR on most teams when he was on our team a year earlier.

I think I'm starting to understand.

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 16:02**

APB wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 14:06

Yoop wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 13:11

Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 12:45
Is it Wide Receiver Fever season again....in July?

I didn't know there was a season minus a receiver Fever, I'd pick a receiver in the first or second round every season, when the roster is bloated I'd trade one or two, you know, sorta how we did it with QB's in the Wolfer days
Let's be real, @Yoop

If you were GM, you'd pick a WR, ILB, safety and DL in the first round every year (not alternating picks; one of each every year because other teams are just dying to trade us their 1st rd draft picks), resign Aaron Rodgers to a 15 yr extension, and still have Dom Capers calling shots on defense while supplying him with top draft capital every year outside of the annual 1st rd WR picks.

not sure what gave you this impression, when I asked for WR, we where in dire need of players better then the ones we had, same at safety, ILB, and DL, and when a GM can't find a trade partner it's because his parameters in the trade are not enticing enough to swing the deal, and Capers isn't the blame when the draft picks are bust or don't play to slot value, and why not keep Rodgers when we paid him, he was a voted in MVP QB.

everything you listed we had a need for when I focused on those positions over the years

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 16:03**

Acrobat wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 13:24
I think what happened was that Gutey saw quite a few holes when he started his tenure, and felt so good about the later round WR's he drafted that he decided to give them time to develop. In hindsight, Ted should have probably pulled the trigger in 2016 on at least a 2nd round WR and then Gutey probably again in 2019 since it looked like MVS was the only one from that group that was going to produce.

So many moving parts though. Lazard obviously became a key player in 2019 as well as MVS. So sometimes you have to play to your surroundings too as in 2022, Lazard and MVS along with Tonyan at TE looked like awesome role players along side one of the best WR's in the game, so it was easier to focus on other positions of need in Free Agency and the draft.

This is exactly what happened. He took 3 WRs in the mid to late rounds. I don’t take problem with this. The team was in desperate need of an influx of youth at the position. It was clear Moore sucked from day one. Both MVS and ESB showed promise wary but by the end of year 2 they were also apparent they were one and done contract guys.

The 2019 draft came and went without any WRs drafted to develop. The 2020 draft came and went and no WRs were drafted. In 2021 the teams waits to take Amari Rodgers and I’m sorry but if you haven’t done dick all at the WR position in 3 drafts you better damn well hit here and they didn’t. Then the team front office has the confused pikachu face meme the following year when the passing game goes to &%$@ after trading Adams and having rookies and trash on the field running routes.

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 16:18**

go pak go wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 14:44
So above all show you prioritize WR, defense, offensive line and running game first but only when you already have an All-Pro QB.

Like KC did when their highest paid WR last year wasn't worth a #3 or #4 WR on most teams when he was on our team a year earlier.

I think I'm starting to understand.

same goes for you, I focused on WR since 2016 because we needed em, while you think the mid level jags we had that took years of coaching up where fine, go ask any football person not hell bent on defending this crap and they will agree with me.

I don't care what the KC receivers accomplished, like MVS for us they all had to be accounted for because they could make a big play, and made enough of them that they dragged coverage off the others, like Kelse and Shuster, look at the production from all, same at RB, there offense was more explosive because they had more explosive offensive talent then we did for the last 5 or 6 years.

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 16:24**

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 16:03

Acrobat wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 13:24
I think what happened was that Gutey saw quite a few holes when he started his tenure, and felt so good about the later round WR's he drafted that he decided to give them time to develop. In hindsight, Ted should have probably pulled the trigger in 2016 on at least a 2nd round WR and then Gutey probably again in 2019 since it looked like MVS was the only one from that group that was going to produce.

So many moving parts though. Lazard obviously became a key player in 2019 as well as MVS. So sometimes you have to play to your surroundings too as in 2022, Lazard and MVS along with Tonyan at TE looked like awesome role players along side one of the best WR's in the game, so it was easier to focus on other positions of need in Free Agency and the draft.
This is exactly what happened. He took 3 WRs in the mid to late rounds. I don’t take problem with this. The team was in desperate need of an influx of youth at the position. It was clear Moore sucked from day one. Both MVS and ESB showed promise wary but by the end of year 2 they were also apparent they were one and done contract guys.

The 2019 draft came and went without any WRs drafted to develop. The 2020 draft came and went and no WRs were drafted. In 2021 the teams waits to take Amari Rodgers and I’m sorry but if you haven’t done dick all at the WR position in 3 drafts you better damn well hit here and they didn’t. Then the team front office has the confused pikachu face meme the following year when the passing game goes to &%$@ after trading Adams and having rookies and trash on the field running routes.

We just didn't hit on the draft picks unfortunately, other than MVS. I know we didn't resign him, but he was still a good contributor. Again, we were all happy with our WR core in 2020 and 2021 when Rodgers was winning MVP's. 2022 was the only season where our WR group was lacking due to the age of the group and obviously we lost Adams, one of the best WR's in the game.

Posted: **17 Jul 2023 16:25**

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 16:03

Acrobat wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2023 13:24
I think what happened was that Gutey saw quite a few holes when he started his tenure, and felt so good about the later round WR's he drafted that he decided to give them time to develop. In hindsight, Ted should have probably pulled the trigger in 2016 on at least a 2nd round WR and then Gutey probably again in 2019 since it looked like MVS was the only one from that group that was going to produce.

So many moving parts though. Lazard obviously became a key player in 2019 as well as MVS. So sometimes you have to play to your surroundings too as in 2022, Lazard and MVS along with Tonyan at TE looked like awesome role players along side one of the best WR's in the game, so it was easier to focus on other positions of need in Free Agency and the draft.
This is exactly what happened. He took 3 WRs in the mid to late rounds. I don’t take problem with this. The team was in desperate need of an influx of youth at the position. It was clear Moore sucked from day one. Both MVS and ESB showed promise wary but by the end of year 2 they were also apparent they were one and done contract guys.

The 2019 draft came and went without any WRs drafted to develop. The 2020 draft came and went and no WRs were drafted. In 2021 the teams waits to take Amari Rodgers and I’m sorry but if you haven’t done dick all at the WR position in 3 drafts you better damn well hit here and they didn’t. Then the team front office has the confused pikachu face meme the following year when the passing game goes to &%$@ after trading Adams and having rookies and trash on the field running routes.

thing is in this day of increased pass rush ya have to have receivers that can separate quick, the problem with MVS, Lazard, Allison, and the others brought in don't posses those abilities, there long striders, and lack the agility, I never understood drafting any of the 3 when we did, the receiver position needed a more ready to play draft pick or a UFA.

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