Love SZN: Official Thread of QB1.

[bud fox]

Seems pertinent based upon some of the arguments I’ve seen being made over the past couple days…

Rodgers had 3 ints through first 5 games.

This is a crazy post if it is just like Rodgers once had 5 ints in 5 games. So much reaching. Anyone trying to indicate that Rodgers is not good is an idiot.

[Drj820]

Pretending Love and Rodgers are equal is hilarious and a giveaway one should not be taken seriously

[APB]

Rodgers had 3 ints through first 5 games.

This is a crazy post if it is just like Rodgers once had 5 ints in 5 games. So much reaching. Anyone trying to indicate that Rodgers is not good is an idiot.

The tweet references turnovers, not just interceptions. In the end, if you're giving away the football, no matter how it occurred, it's still a turnover.

And sorry, no, Rodgers was not good in 2022.

Pretending Love and Rodgers are equal is hilarious and a giveaway one should not be taken seriously

I, nor the tweet author in my eyes, never said they were equal. I do find it curious, though, that your takeaway would be to jump to that conclusion and dismiss the entire thought outright.

To me, this tweet highlights their production has been near identical through the first five games of 2022/2023.

Why is it pertinent, beyond the obvious, anyway?

All the arguing over "Rodgers does the intangibles" stuff like calling out o-line alignments, recognizing blitzes, audibling out of bad plays, etc - all things Love apparently is incapable of - had little impact in production. Both QBs, in running the same offense, have had very similar production in a year-over-year comparison.

It pretty much undermines the entire "intangibles" argument in my eyes. For all of Rodgers' experience and savvy, it did little to improve production in 2022. Whatever gains he provided the offense in those areas, it clearly did not translate to higher production.

[APB]

Love doesn't seem to have a problem throwing a ball to a contested receiver. That could end up being a good thing, as these receivers develop and get better at fighting for the ball. It could result in a higher INT rate as well, but so far so good there.

Rodgers did an amazing job with completions and protecting the football, but at times he was too risk averse. I'm fine with a little more risk.

He’s a point and click QB. Where the ball is supposed to go he will go. For better or for worse. It works for Tua because he’s accurate.

First, I thought one of the things Love was struggling with was indecisiveness in the pocket when he is forced to move off of his first read? Point-and-click QBs would never have that problem because there wouldn't be a second or third read.

Second, interesting you used Tua as your example. Tua was decidedly inaccurate his first two years starting, and still has issues to this day from time-to-time, much like, you know, every QB. That's why the Dolphins were forced to move to a high percentage, dink-and-dunk offense with him.

His first two years starting he was plugging along around 6.5 yards/attempt. That is well below average, mind you. His first year starting was particularly bad, averaging 6.3 yds/att, rating 26th in QBR, 29th in QB rating, and 34th in yardage among qualifying QBs.

Anyway, it was his biggest knock. It now appears that once he got some starts under his belt, along with some gametime experience with his receivers, that his accuracy now meets your high standard.

But Love is a lost cause, according to you.

Curious.

[CWIMM]

The "youth defense" is factual. It is something that this team must overcome. Most of PackerNation said as much coming into this year. Most of us projected an up and down season. Until this team learns how to become more savvy with experience, that's how it's going to be.

So don't be shocked by mistakes, especially while we've been hit hard with injuries. Look for the ways that the young guys learn and improve and don't repeatedly make the same mistakes.

Crosby was a great example of a young OLine. This guy (and Hutchinson in Detroit) are wreckers. They can dominate this OLine single-handedly right now. Watch and see how our guys learn to deal with players like that. They'll improve. Or we will face a overhaul of our coaching staff come February/March.

I agree it's possible that young players will improve over the course of the season. But there aren't any guarantees of that happening though.

There's a chance the front office didn't correctly evaluate their talent as well.

Second, interesting you used Tua as your example. Tua was decidedly inaccurate his first two years starting, and still has issues to this day from time-to-time, much like, you know, every QB. That's why the Dolphins were forced to move to a high percentage, dink-and-dunk offense with him.

His first two years starting he was plugging along around 6.5 yards/attempt. That is well below average, mind you. His first year starting was particularly bad, averaging 6.3 yds/att, rating 26th in QBR, 29th in QB rating, and 34th in yardage among qualifying QBs.

Anyway, it was his biggest knock. It now appears that once he got some starts under his belt, along with some gametime experience with his receivers, that his accuracy now meets your high standard.

But Love is a lost cause, according to you.

Curious.

Love isn't a lost cause but his completion percentage of 55.6% is atrocious, more than 8% lower than Tua as a rookie.

[APB]

Second, interesting you used Tua as your example. Tua was decidedly inaccurate his first two years starting, and still has issues to this day from time-to-time, much like, you know, every QB. That's why the Dolphins were forced to move to a high percentage, dink-and-dunk offense with him.

His first two years starting he was plugging along around 6.5 yards/attempt. That is well below average, mind you. His first year starting was particularly bad, averaging 6.3 yds/att, rating 26th in QBR, 29th in QB rating, and 34th in yardage among qualifying QBs.

Anyway, it was his biggest knock. It now appears that once he got some starts under his belt, along with some gametime experience with his receivers, that his accuracy now meets your high standard.

But Love is a lost cause, according to you.

Curious.

Love isn't a lost cause but his completion percentage of 55.6% is atrocious, more than 8% lower than Tua as a rookie.

Agreed.

I am not convinced that low percentage is wholly attributable to him, though. There are experience issues all over this offense that, I believe, have contributed to those inefficiencies. That, and MLF/staff are not doing the offense any favors with game-planning/play calls that would negate some of those inefficiencies.

[Yoop]

this MLF didn't game him right stuff doesn't add up, the plan against Vegas was run Dillon in the A gaps and short pass routes so Love could get rid of the ball quicker, problem was we couldn't block.

I bet that was the same situation for Tua, I bet if I went and looked they brought in better OL talent, or what they had improved and provided Tua more protection.

[TheSkeptic]

Love this season and Rodgers last season are both approximately the same. So-so. But Rodgers was paid to be a MVP and his exhorbitant pay was the primary reason this season's team is so young. There was not enough money to go out last spring and sign a good veteran guard and a better Safety - so we see Newman being a liability.

As others have said, Love has been hampered by miscommunication between himself and the young receivers. The rapport is not there yet, it can't be after so few games together and with almost everyone being either a rookie or a 2nd year player or their first year as a starter.

Love is playing as we should all have expected. Not as we dreamed he would. He is going to be a good QB, maybe not as good as Favre and Rodgers but lets face it, Favre and Rodgers combined for 3 SB's over long careers. Favre and Rodgers almost always had better Olines rather than two 2nd year OT's, a middling center and RG and a disaster at LG and the all pro LT on IR.

And while we are at it, it would be really interesting if there were a stat or how Rodgers played when Bakh was on the sidelines. We know how badly Rodgers played in the playoffs when Bakh was hurt from what our eyes told us, but no stats.

[Drj820]

Rodgers had 3 ints through first 5 games.

This is a crazy post if it is just like Rodgers once had 5 ints in 5 games. So much reaching. Anyone trying to indicate that Rodgers is not good is an idiot.

The tweet references turnovers, not just interceptions. In the end, if you're giving away the football, no matter how it occurred, it's still a turnover.

And sorry, no, Rodgers was not good in 2022.

Pretending Love and Rodgers are equal is hilarious and a giveaway one should not be taken seriously

I, nor the tweet author in my eyes, never said they were equal. I do find it curious, though, that your takeaway would be to jump to that conclusion and dismiss the entire thought outright.

To me, this tweet highlights their production has been near identical through the first five games of 2022/2023.

Why is it pertinent, beyond the obvious, anyway?

All the arguing over "Rodgers does the intangibles" stuff like calling out o-line alignments, recognizing blitzes, audibling out of bad plays, etc - all things Love apparently is incapable of - had little impact in production. Both QBs, in running the same offense, have had very similar production in a year-over-year comparison.

It pretty much undermines the entire "intangibles" argument in my eyes. For all of Rodgers' experience and savvy, it did little to improve production in 2022. Whatever gains he provided the offense in those areas, it clearly did not translate to higher production.

You say the implicit stuff doesn’t matter, yet the packers were 3-2 at this point in the season last year, the losing streak just started this week (last year) and it happened at the same time Rodgers broke his finger/thumb?

So the implicit stuff could be said to have been worth a game.

I think it’s the exact same for this season. I think 12 navigates us to a win against the falcons this season and we would be 3-2.

Implicit means it doesn’t explicitly show up in the stat book by the way

[lupedafiasco]

Love doesn't seem to have a problem throwing a ball to a contested receiver. That could end up being a good thing, as these receivers develop and get better at fighting for the ball. It could result in a higher INT rate as well, but so far so good there.

Rodgers did an amazing job with completions and protecting the football, but at times he was too risk averse. I'm fine with a little more risk.

He’s a point and click QB. Where the ball is supposed to go he will go. For better or for worse. It works for Tua because he’s accurate.

First, I thought one of the things Love was struggling with was indecisiveness in the pocket when he is forced to move off of his first read? Point-and-click QBs would never have that problem because there wouldn't be a second or third read.

Second, interesting you used Tua as your example. Tua was decidedly inaccurate his first two years starting, and still has issues to this day from time-to-time, much like, you know, every QB. That's why the Dolphins were forced to move to a high percentage, dink-and-dunk offense with him.

His first two years starting he was plugging along around 6.5 yards/attempt. That is well below average, mind you. His first year starting was particularly bad, averaging 6.3 yds/att, rating 26th in QBR, 29th in QB rating, and 34th in yardage among qualifying QBs.

Anyway, it was his biggest knock. It now appears that once he got some starts under his belt, along with some gametime experience with his receivers, that his accuracy now meets your high standard.

But Love is a lost cause, according to you.

Curious.

You keep acting like rookie and first year starter are the same thing. This is year 4 for Love. I’m not grading him on a rookies curve. Mechanically Love should be perfect right now and throwing accurate strikes. He isn’t.

[Yoop]

Rodgers had 3 ints through first 5 games.

This is a crazy post if it is just like Rodgers once had 5 ints in 5 games. So much reaching. Anyone trying to indicate that Rodgers is not good is an idiot.

The tweet references turnovers, not just interceptions. In the end, if you're giving away the football, no matter how it occurred, it's still a turnover.

And sorry, no, Rodgers was not good in 2022.

Pretending Love and Rodgers are equal is hilarious and a giveaway one should not be taken seriously

I, nor the tweet author in my eyes, never said they were equal. I do find it curious, though, that your takeaway would be to jump to that conclusion and dismiss the entire thought outright.

To me, this tweet highlights their production has been near identical through the first five games of 2022/2023.

Why is it pertinent, beyond the obvious, anyway?

All the arguing over "Rodgers does the intangibles" stuff like calling out o-line alignments, recognizing blitzes, audibling out of bad plays, etc - all things Love apparently is incapable of - had little impact in production. Both QBs, in running the same offense, have had very similar production in a year-over-year comparison.

It pretty much undermines the entire "intangibles" argument in my eyes. For all of Rodgers' experience and savvy, it did little to improve production in 2022. Whatever gains he provided the offense in those areas, it clearly did not translate to higher production.

You say the implicit stuff doesn’t matter, yet the packers were 3-2 at this point in the season last year, the losing streak just started this week (last year) and it happened at the same time Rodgers broke his finger/thumb?

So the implicit stuff could be said to have been worth a game.

I think it’s the exact same for this season. I think 12 navigates us to a win against the falcons this season and we would be 3-2.

Implicit means it doesn’t explicitly show up in the stat book by the way

hey, Rodgers should be ambidextrous, the broken hand excuse doesn't hold up.

I was hoping Rodgers play this year would shut down some of his critics, then he comes up lame and out for the year.

the blocking last year was almost as bad as it is this year for the first 6 games or so, but we had better protection at times against the blitz and stunts.

unless ya have a receiver that can take the top off a defenses passing will be more difficult, once Watson was healthy the passing game seemed to improve.

[Pckfn23]

Love issue the last 2 weeks. Gotta hang in there and deliver.

[Yoop]

Love issue the last 2 weeks. Gotta hang in there and deliver.

he feels the pressure, thats why he bailed, so obvious, saying what he should do, just as obvious, but it doesn't change anything.

[Pckfn23]

Love issue the last 2 weeks. Gotta hang in there and deliver.

he feels the pressure, thats why he bailed, so obvious, saying what he should do, just as obvious, but it doesn't change anything.

Slight pressure, slide, deliver the football. Pressure is never less than a yard away. Plays like that are ones NFL QBs should make. Stop making excuses for QB1. His play needs to be better just like every offensive player. Coaches need to be better as well.

[Yoop]

Love issue the last 2 weeks. Gotta hang in there and deliver.

he feels the pressure, thats why he bailed, so obvious, saying what he should do, just as obvious, but it doesn't change anything.

Slight pressure, slide, deliver the football. Pressure is never less than a yard away. Plays like that are ones NFL QBs should make. Stop making excuses for QB1. His play needs to be better just like every offensive player. Coaches need to be better as well.

no argument, my point is that once hit, the hit is remembered, specially with a young QB, go back and watch how Love dealt with pressure the first 3 games, or in mop up last year, when a QB expects pressure it will obviously affect how he plays, I mentioned this same stuff early last year with Rodgers, and he's a ol vet, look at other teams with good vet QB's, once hit a few times most become more timid and aware that they have to be ready to bail and will do so at the first hint of it, prematurely, often.

your expecting to much from Love, Lafleur game planned for Love to get the ball out faster simply because of the pressure.
didn't work so well because the receivers couldn't get open on schedule.

[Pckfn23]

he feels the pressure, thats why he bailed, so obvious, saying what he should do, just as obvious, but it doesn't change anything.

Slight pressure, slide, deliver the football. Pressure is never less than a yard away. Plays like that are ones NFL QBs should make. Stop making excuses for QB1. His play needs to be better just like every offensive player. Coaches need to be better as well.

no argument, my point is that once hit, the hit is remembered, specially with a young QB, go back and watch how Love dealt with pressure the first 3 games, or in mop up last year, when a QB expects pressure it will obviously affect how he plays, I mentioned this same stuff early last year with Rodgers, and he's a ol vet, look at other teams with good vet QB's, once hit a few times most become more timid and aware that they have to be ready to bail and will do so at the first hint of it, prematurely, often.

your expecting to much from Love, Lafleur game planned for Love to get the ball out faster simply because of the pressure.
didn't work so well because the receivers couldn't get open on schedule.

So the whole schtick is that pressure is the #1 reason young QBs fail, but when we say that all QBs experience pressure and need to deal with it, you now rail against that and say we expect too much. Effective QBs need to been very good when clean and need to be able to deal with pressure making good reads and sometime living to play another down. Love needs to be able to deal with it, and especially as light of pressure as this play is, he needs to deliver.

[Yoop]

Slight pressure, slide, deliver the football. Pressure is never less than a yard away. Plays like that are ones NFL QBs should make. Stop making excuses for QB1. His play needs to be better just like every offensive player. Coaches need to be better as well.

no argument, my point is that once hit, the hit is remembered, specially with a young QB, go back and watch how Love dealt with pressure the first 3 games, or in mop up last year, when a QB expects pressure it will obviously affect how he plays, I mentioned this same stuff early last year with Rodgers, and he's a ol vet, look at other teams with good vet QB's, once hit a few times most become more timid and aware that they have to be ready to bail and will do so at the first hint of it, prematurely, often.

your expecting to much from Love, Lafleur game planned for Love to get the ball out faster simply because of the pressure.
didn't work so well because the receivers couldn't get open on schedule.

So the whole schtick is that pressure is the #1 reason young QBs fail, but when we say that all QBs experience pressure and need to deal with it, you now rail against that and say we expect too much. Effective QBs need to been very good when clean and need to be able to deal with pressure making good reads and sometime living to play another down. Love needs to be able to deal with it, and especially as light of pressure as this play is, he needs to deliver.

your just twisting my words now, I know you know exactly what I'am talking about, Love is not some accomplished vet, we all know that, my point is and always has been, he will improve, IF WE WANT TO SEE FASTER IMPROVEMENT, then better blocking will lead to that, poor blocking is making Loves transition harder.

[Pckfn23]

no argument, my point is that once hit, the hit is remembered, specially with a young QB, go back and watch how Love dealt with pressure the first 3 games, or in mop up last year, when a QB expects pressure it will obviously affect how he plays, I mentioned this same stuff early last year with Rodgers, and he's a ol vet, look at other teams with good vet QB's, once hit a few times most become more timid and aware that they have to be ready to bail and will do so at the first hint of it, prematurely, often.

your expecting to much from Love, Lafleur game planned for Love to get the ball out faster simply because of the pressure.
didn't work so well because the receivers couldn't get open on schedule.

So the whole schtick is that pressure is the #1 reason young QBs fail, but when we say that all QBs experience pressure and need to deal with it, you now rail against that and say we expect too much. Effective QBs need to been very good when clean and need to be able to deal with pressure making good reads and sometime living to play another down. Love needs to be able to deal with it, and especially as light of pressure as this play is, he needs to deliver.

your just twisting my words now, I know you know exactly what I'am talking about, Love is not some accomplished vet, we all know that, my point is and always has been, he will improve, IF WE WANT TO SEE FASTER IMPROVEMENT, then better blocking will lead to that, poor blocking is making Loves transition harder.

That's actually never been your articulated point until now and guess what?! I agree with that point.

[Papa John]

Love is playing as we should all have expected. Not as we dreamed he would. He is going to be a good QB, maybe not as good as Favre and Rodgers but lets face it, Favre and Rodgers combined for 3 SB's over long careers.

At this point there is just as much of a chance that he turns out to be a bad or average starting QB. And besides, just being good is not going to be enough. This is Green Bay. Top notch QB play is essential to who we are. We need excellent play from the QB to win Super Bowls.

[Yoop]

So the whole schtick is that pressure is the #1 reason young QBs fail, but when we say that all QBs experience pressure and need to deal with it, you now rail against that and say we expect too much. Effective QBs need to been very good when clean and need to be able to deal with pressure making good reads and sometime living to play another down. Love needs to be able to deal with it, and especially as light of pressure as this play is, he needs to deliver.

your just twisting my words now, I know you know exactly what I'am talking about, Love is not some accomplished vet, we all know that, my point is and always has been, he will improve, IF WE WANT TO SEE FASTER IMPROVEMENT, then better blocking will lead to that, poor blocking is making Loves transition harder.

That's actually never been your articulated point until now and guess what?! I agree with that point.

you new what I meant all along, yet deprived your students and ripped off joe tax payor for 2 hours arguing with me about stuff you new I meant all along, umm, not good