Love won’t have a long career if he throws ints right to the defense. That’s the thing that is on only him, that he has to clean up. It doesn’t matter if he’s pressured or not, that’s what he can’t do.
Missing open guys, inaccurate on deep balls, etc..it’s all whatever. He can work that stuff out over time, and the pressure very well may be to blame for that stuff.
But no matter what, the ints and pick 6s etc must cease immediately
Brett Favre had a pretty long career and threw a lot of interceptions. I do agree that Love sometimes needs to make better decisions, but he is still very inexperienced.
Love won’t have a long career if he throws ints right to the defense. That’s the thing that is on only him, that he has to clean up. It doesn’t matter if he’s pressured or not, that’s what he can’t do.
Missing open guys, inaccurate on deep balls, etc..it’s all whatever. He can work that stuff out over time, and the pressure very well may be to blame for that stuff.
But no matter what, the ints and pick 6s etc must cease immediately
Brett Favre had a pretty long career and threw a lot of interceptions. I do agree that Love sometimes needs to make better decisions, but he is still very inexperienced.
At this point there is just as much of a chance that he turns out to be a bad or average starting QB. And besides, just being good is not going to be enough. This is Green Bay. Top notch QB play is essential to who we are. We need excellent play from the QB to win Super Bowls.
I agree that Love developing into an average QB definitely isn't good enough after Gutekunst traded up in the first round to select him with the team having a HOF QB on the roster while coming off making it to the NFCCG the previous year.
Even if this wasn't the circumstance under which he was drafted, average or good QB play still will not be enough for Green Bay to win a Super Bowl IMO.
One of our fellow posters here on this forum once posited the idea that teams are at their best when they build rosters and play to the identity of that franchise. i.e. Bears are best when they have a great defense, Rams are best with a high powered offense, etc..
I happen to agree with that idea.
We need to be asking ourselves the right questions about any Packers QB. It's a waste of time to be asking if our QB can be merely serviceable like Dak Prescott. Because Green Bay is at a disadvantage in the free agent market. It is far less likely that a Green Bay QB will ever have a Brock Purdy/SF situation IMO, than it is for most other teams. We need great QB play and should be asking ourselves whether our Packers QB can be great, not if he can be just good enough.
At this point there is just as much of a chance that he turns out to be a bad or average starting QB. And besides, just being good is not going to be enough. This is Green Bay. Top notch QB play is essential to who we are. We need excellent play from the QB to win Super Bowls.
I agree that Love developing into an average QB definitely isn't good enough after Gutekunst traded up in the first round to select him with the team having a HOF QB on the roster while coming off making it to the NFCCG the previous year.
Even if this wasn't the circumstance under which he was drafted, average or good QB play still will not be enough for Green Bay to win a Super Bowl IMO.
One of our fellow posters here on this forum once posited the idea that teams are at their best when they build rosters and play to the identity of that franchise. i.e. Bears are best when they have a great defense, Rams are best with a high powered offense, etc..
I happen to agree with that idea.
We need to be asking ourselves the right questions about any Packers QB. It's a waste of time to be asking if our QB can be merely serviceable like Dak Prescott. Because Green Bay is at a disadvantage in the free agent market. It is far less likely that a Green Bay QB will ever have a Brock Purdy/SF situation IMO, than it is for most other teams. We need great QB play and should be asking ourselves whether our Packers QB can be great, not if he can be just good enough.
I don’t really agree with that, we just have lots of pressure every year on our drafts. More pressure than most, because we don’t get the FAs. But just off your example of the niners…majority of that offense was drafted. Purdy, aiyuk, kittle, Deebo…all a result of just banger drafts. Draft like that and you can win with a Purdy. If you actually play him and don’t sit him for 3 seasons.
The one guy of course they have on O that is great that was brought in was via trade..mccafrey. So players couldn’t really say no to that anyways.
I could see some players not wanting to come to GB due to the city and weather, but also many May love the history. I think the reason we don’t get many FAs is less about the location, and more about our refusal to overspend. Most teams that land big FAs overpay, and for better or worse, we don’t like doing that. The one year we did do that, we got plenty of FAs..Preston, Z, and Amos all said they came to GB bc the GB offer was higher.
Those are offers you can make all the time when you find your qb in the 7th round
I don’t really agree with that, we just have lots of pressure every year on our drafts. More pressure than most, because we don’t get the FAs. But just off your example of the niners…majority of that offense was drafted. Purdy, aiyuk, kittle, Deebo…all a result of just banger drafts. Draft like that and you can win with a Purdy. If you actually play him and don’t sit him for 3 seasons.
The one guy of course they have on O that is great that was brought in was via trade..mccafrey. So players couldn’t really say no to that anyways.
I could see some players not wanting to come to GB due to the city and weather, but also many May love the history. I think the reason we don’t get many FAs is less about the location, and more about our refusal to overspend. Most teams that land big FAs overpay, and for better or worse, we don’t like doing that. The one year we did do that, we got plenty of FAs..Preston, Z, and Amos all said they came to GB bc the GB offer was higher.
Yeah I think I am closer to this position than Elite QB or Bust. I mean it is great if we do land a QB that is elite, not saying I do not want one.
But I do not want us to box ourselves into a position where we only ever try to pursue one specific path to a championship when multiple other paths exist, and have to constantly hit the reset button just because the roster (or in this case, just one specific player/position) does not fit the ideal. And getting an elite QB on the roster is very difficult.
I also question how much that really mattered to us signing FAs. Zadarius said he was going to sign with the NY Jets, who have nothing at QB, but then decided to go with GB, and his reason was simply that we offered him more money.
Honestly, the only example of a good player signing with a team that we know for sure was due to wanting to play with Rodgers is Dalvin Cook signing with NY a few months ago.
Re: Love SZN: Official Thread of QB1.
Posted: 13 Oct 2023 11:55
by Labrev
I also question if GB truly has the magic touch it once did in developing QBs anymore.
We had Favre, and then produced guys like Hasselbeck, Brooks, and Brunell. Then we had Rodgers, and made an okay QB out of Matt Flynn.
But since Flynn, who was a long time ago (and definitely inferior to the guys we developed in the Favre era), we have had nothing, and we tried a few developmental guys in that span like Hundley, briefly Kizer, Coleman (remember that guy?), and now Love.
Our best success (aside from any early positive returns from Love) was Hundley, who has been an okay backup.
Usually teams that have a "thing" do so because they keep attracting guys that specialize in it. SF not only keeps adding good players to its roster on D, it also has good D coaches there every year: Ryans, Saleh, Wilks, etc.
MLF is supposed to be a QB guru (expressly why Murphy hired him) but I don't think Love really progressed much until Tom Clements came in last season to fix Love's mechanics. Getsy was one of the guys who succeeded Clements, since moved onto Chicago, was given an incredibly talented physical specimen in Justin Fields to work with, and Fields does not look good, or any better than before Getsy arrived.
We have not specialized in QB development/production since Tom Clements. We had to drag him out of retirement to make measurable improvements in Love's game.
Re: Love SZN: Official Thread of QB1.
Posted: 13 Oct 2023 12:07
by go pak go
There is also the piece that Draft and Develop is kind of dead because of how little coaches can implement practices, offseason programs, QB schools, etc.
I also question if GB truly has the magic touch it once did in developing QBs anymore.
We had Favre, and then produced guys like Hasselbeck, Brooks, and Brunell. Then we had Rodgers, and made an okay QB out of Matt Flynn.
But since Flynn, who was a long time ago (and definitely inferior to the guys we developed in the Favre era), we have had nothing, and we tried a few developmental guys in that span like Hundley, briefly Kizer, Coleman (remember that guy?), and now Love.
Our best success (aside from any early positive returns from Love) was Hundley, who has been an okay backup.
Usually teams that have a "thing" do so because they keep attracting guys that specialize in it. SF not only keeps adding good players to its roster on D, it also has good D coaches there every year: Ryans, Saleh, Wilks, etc.
MLF is supposed to be a QB guru (expressly why Murphy hired him) but I don't think Love really progressed much until Tom Clements came in last season to fix Love's mechanics. Getsy was one of the guys who succeeded Clements, since moved onto Chicago, was given an incredibly talented physical specimen in Justin Fields to work with, and Fields does not look good, or any better than before Getsy arrived.
We have not specialized in QB development/production since Tom Clements. We had to drag him out of retirement to make measurable improvements in Love's game.
Right now, the only thing MLF is good at is crying. He isn't even a good X and O guy currently, as evidenced by any number of analyses of the plays/game plan over the past few games. AR covered up SO MUCH for MLF and Gute. When he finally wasn't Godgers (last year), we saw what the rest of the team was like. This year is Exhibit B, only now we have lack of talent and poor offensive (and defensive - but that isn't new from last year) schemes/playcalling (MLF).
But just off your example of the niners…majority of that offense was drafted. Purdy, aiyuk, kittle, Deebo…all a result of just banger drafts. Draft like that and you can win with a Purdy. If you actually play him and don’t sit him for 3 seasons.
The 49ers have not had the "banger drafts" like many believe them to have had. They have hit on a player or two in some years, just like many teams do, but to characterize their drafts as consistently exemplary is a serious stretch.
2023 is still too early to cast judgment but no current starters from that group. Considering they traded away their top draft capital to get McCaffrey (first pick was R3) I'd say it's likely there are no gamechangers among this group but you never know.
From 2022, the only players that have managed to crack the starting lineup are OL Spencer Burford and Purdy. The 49ers got extremely lucky with Purdy. He is absolutely the exception to the rule. His ascension to QB1 also comes with the caveat they blew the no. 3 overall pick in the 2021 draft with Trey Lance. The rest of the 2022 draft are nothing special. No PB or AP honors.
From 2021, completely missed on no. 3 overall pick, QB Trey Lance. They got another starter level OL in Aaron Banks and also starters in CB Deommodore Lenoir and S Talanoa Hufanga. Hufanga, a R6 pick, is the only player to have excelled, garnering AP1 status last year. Again, a late round flyer that turned to gold.
From 2020, again only two starters: OL Colton McKivitz and WR Brandon Aiyuk, and no PB or AP honors. Aiyuk is finally showing something this year after 3 nondescript years of play.
2019 is about the only recent year you can point to and say AHA! They drafted Nick Bosa, Deebo Samuel, and Dre Greenlaw. They also drafted 2nd overall. Nick Bosa was the no. 2 overall pick gift for sucking the year prior. Credit for Samuel and Greenlaw. Quality picks. Bosa and Samuel have each been selected AP/PB.
From 2018, about the only player worth mentioning is Fred Warner, a R3 pick. He's developed into a stud. AP/PB honors. The rest? Nothing of note.
George Kittle was a R5 hit from 2017. The rest? Meh.
Deforest Buckner was the overall no. 7 pick in 2016. The rest? Pfft.
I'll grant they've hit on some players over the years but they miss on players just as consistently as anybody else. The fact they picked near the top of the draft for many of those years should also tarnish some of what they've been able to accomplish through the draft. It's a heckuva lot easier to nab a player like Bosa when you're picking from no. 2 overall. Conversely, they completely missed after trading up for no. 3 overall in 2021.
Of note, from 2016 - 2021, the 49ers were picking in the top half (all but one a top 10 pick) of the draft:
2016 - 7th
2017 - 3rd
2018 - 9th
2019 - 2nd
2020 - 14th
2021 - 3rd
The 49ers didn't have a R1 in 2022 or R1/R2 in 2023 due to trading them away.
So I think it's fair to say if you're gonna be effusive in singing their praises for drafting these guys, it's also fair to temper that praise in consideration for where they were drafting every year.
Anyway, I just wanted to share some perspective in light of seeing several posters singing the praises of the awesome 49ers and their awesome organization. They embraced the suck for many years to get to where they are now and are no more consistent in their drafts than anyone else.
Re: Love SZN: Official Thread of QB1.
Posted: 13 Oct 2023 13:08
by Drj820
Aiyuk was a 1000 yard receiver last year. That’s really good considering all the other options to get the ball that are there.
The Deebo draft was an all time draft class.
And the mid to late round bangers aren’t picks to just tip the cap to and move on. Warner is the best linebacker in the game right now, to find him in the 3rd is amazing. Purdy is a really good qb, to get him in the 7th is amazing. It’s not lucky, anybody could have seen what the niners are seeing. And kittle is on his way to the HOF potentially. To snag him In the 5th is amazing.
Sure there are whiffs, but the best players on that team were found in the draft, who can hate. To be able to overcome the Lance debacle just show how’s often they hit.
I also question if GB truly has the magic touch it once did in developing QBs anymore.
We had Favre, and then produced guys like Hasselbeck, Brooks, and Brunell. Then we had Rodgers, and made an okay QB out of Matt Flynn.
But since Flynn, who was a long time ago (and definitely inferior to the guys we developed in the Favre era), we have had nothing, and we tried a few developmental guys in that span like Hundley, briefly Kizer, Coleman (remember that guy?), and now Love.
Our best success (aside from any early positive returns from Love) was Hundley, who has been an okay backup.
Usually teams that have a "thing" do so because they keep attracting guys that specialize in it. SF not only keeps adding good players to its roster on D, it also has good D coaches there every year: Ryans, Saleh, Wilks, etc.
MLF is supposed to be a QB guru (expressly why Murphy hired him) but I don't think Love really progressed much until Tom Clements came in last season to fix Love's mechanics. Getsy was one of the guys who succeeded Clements, since moved onto Chicago, was given an incredibly talented physical specimen in Justin Fields to work with, and Fields does not look good, or any better than before Getsy arrived.
We have not specialized in QB development/production since Tom Clements. We had to drag him out of retirement to make measurable improvements in Love's game.
Right now, the only thing MLF is good at is crying. He isn't even a good X and O guy currently, as evidenced by any number of analyses of the plays/game plan over the past few games. AR covered up SO MUCH for MLF and Gute. When he finally wasn't Godgers (last year), we saw what the rest of the team was like. This year is Exhibit B, only now we have lack of talent and poor offensive (and defensive - but that isn't new from last year) schemes/playcalling (MLF).
no coach can do well scheming up plays when he lacks the players required for his schemes to work, we are the youngest team in the league, our oldest receiver has 15? games to his credit, our #1 RB has missed games, Lafleur is working with a mash unit OL, you'd cry to in his shoes. not to mention a DC that couldn't pour !@#$ from a boot with the instructions on the heel ( hadn't used that line, don't want to forget it )
people are expecting a lot from Lafleur when everything is going against him, of course it's no secret that Rodgers was a huge help, but at some point the reality has to be accepted, the situation wasn't that much different last year, the OL sucked for half the season along with receivers &%$@ the bed over and over and repeat, and Barry is reminiscent of the guy who says after the tornado took the barn, look Ma, the house is still standing, clueless would be a under statement.
we need to get healthy, so Lafleur and Love have a chance to succeed.
Purdy is a really good qb, to get him in the 7th is amazing. It’s not lucky, anybody could have seen what the niners are seeing.
Aw come on, Purdy with the last pick in the draft is incredibly lucky. With like Warner and even Kittle, yeah, I can believe they foresaw them being quality starters, both (Kittle more so) probably exceeding the expectation, but still, quality starters.
I tend to think if they foresaw Purdy as a good starter at QB, they probably don't wait until the literal tail end of the draft to take him. They had five Day 3 picks ahead of where they took him. Why pick, like, a DL from UCF ahead of a starting QB?
Re: Love SZN: Official Thread of QB1.
Posted: 13 Oct 2023 14:26
by Pckfn23
Love O Sullivan and watching his stuff. This type of stuff along with Dusty is my wheel house and love learning. That said, what he highlights in the Raiders game is exactly what may have been saying. The offense right now is a total team failure from the QB decisions and accuracy, to players not running the right routes or giving max effort, to offensive line issues, to bad playcalling. The last 3 games have been a &%$@ show all the way around. The good news is that most of that didn't show up much in the first few weeks, so there is hope. Gotta get back on track!
Re: Love SZN: Official Thread of QB1.
Posted: 13 Oct 2023 14:40
by Yoop
We protect Love better or we'll ruin him, the first year for a QB is make or break year.
But just off your example of the niners…majority of that offense was drafted. Purdy, aiyuk, kittle, Deebo…all a result of just banger drafts. Draft like that and you can win with a Purdy. If you actually play him and don’t sit him for 3 seasons.
The 49ers have not had the "banger drafts" like many believe them to have had. They have hit on a player or two in some years, just like many teams do, but to characterize their drafts as consistently exemplary is a serious stretch.
2023 is still too early to cast judgment but no current starters from that group. Considering they traded away their top draft capital to get McCaffrey (first pick was R3) I'd say it's likely there are no gamechangers among this group but you never know.
From 2022, the only players that have managed to crack the starting lineup are OL Spencer Burford and Purdy. The 49ers got extremely lucky with Purdy. He is absolutely the exception to the rule. His ascension to QB1 also comes with the caveat they blew the no. 3 overall pick in the 2021 draft with Trey Lance. The rest of the 2022 draft are nothing special. No PB or AP honors.
From 2021, completely missed on no. 3 overall pick, QB Trey Lance. They got another starter level OL in Aaron Banks and also starters in CB Deommodore Lenoir and S Talanoa Hufanga. Hufanga, a R6 pick, is the only player to have excelled, garnering AP1 status last year. Again, a late round flyer that turned to gold.
From 2020, again only two starters: OL Colton McKivitz and WR Brandon Aiyuk, and no PB or AP honors. Aiyuk is finally showing something this year after 3 nondescript years of play.
2019 is about the only recent year you can point to and say AHA! They drafted Nick Bosa, Deebo Samuel, and Dre Greenlaw. They also drafted 2nd overall. Nick Bosa was the no. 2 overall pick gift for sucking the year prior. Credit for Samuel and Greenlaw. Quality picks. Bosa and Samuel have each been selected AP/PB.
From 2018, about the only player worth mentioning is Fred Warner, a R3 pick. He's developed into a stud. AP/PB honors. The rest? Nothing of note.
George Kittle was a R5 hit from 2017. The rest? Meh.
Deforest Buckner was the overall no. 7 pick in 2016. The rest? Pfft.
I'll grant they've hit on some players over the years but they miss on players just as consistently as anybody else. The fact they picked near the top of the draft for many of those years should also tarnish some of what they've been able to accomplish through the draft. It's a heckuva lot easier to nab a player like Bosa when you're picking from no. 2 overall. Conversely, they completely missed after trading up for no. 3 overall in 2021.
Of note, from 2016 - 2021, the 49ers were picking in the top half (all but one a top 10 pick) of the draft:
2016 - 7th
2017 - 3rd
2018 - 9th
2019 - 2nd
2020 - 14th
2021 - 3rd
The 49ers didn't have a R1 in 2022 or R1/R2 in 2023 due to trading them away.
So I think it's fair to say if you're gonna be effusive in singing their praises for drafting these guys, it's also fair to temper that praise in consideration for where they were drafting every year.
Anyway, I just wanted to share some perspective in light of seeing several posters singing the praises of the awesome 49ers and their awesome organization. They embraced the suck for many years to get to where they are now and are no more consistent in their drafts than anyone else.
Brandon Aiyuk had 78 catches for 1,015 yards and scored 8 touchdowns in 17 games in 2022. I don't believe that those #s indicate "nondescript play."
Especially given that he plays on a team with other legitimate offensive weapons in Kittle, Samuel, and McCaffrey.
In addition to their many draft hits outside of round 1 like Kittle, Samuel, Purdy, Warner, Greenlaw, Hufanga and more, the 49ers are also willing to trade draft picks for established NFL veterans such as LT Trent Williams and RB Christian McCaffrey.
In short, the 49ers have both out-drafted the Packers after round 1 and they have been more willing to take chances by trading draft picks for veteran players to build their roster.
If one looks at the other remaining undefeated NFL team the Philadelphia Eagles, there are many similarities with the way they and the 49ers built their rosters, not the least of which are that Philly is willing to trade picks for players such as Slay, Swift, and AJ Browm in order to fill holes on the roster.
When is the last time GB made such a trade?
Perhaps it is also worth noting that both Philly and SF have been to two Super Bowls, each with 2 different QBs and 2 different head coaches, since GB's last appearance.
But just off your example of the niners…majority of that offense was drafted. Purdy, aiyuk, kittle, Deebo…all a result of just banger drafts. Draft like that and you can win with a Purdy. If you actually play him and don’t sit him for 3 seasons.
The 49ers have not had the "banger drafts" like many believe them to have had. They have hit on a player or two in some years, just like many teams do, but to characterize their drafts as consistently exemplary is a serious stretch.
2023 is still too early to cast judgment but no current starters from that group. Considering they traded away their top draft capital to get McCaffrey (first pick was R3) I'd say it's likely there are no gamechangers among this group but you never know.
From 2022, the only players that have managed to crack the starting lineup are OL Spencer Burford and Purdy. The 49ers got extremely lucky with Purdy. He is absolutely the exception to the rule. His ascension to QB1 also comes with the caveat they blew the no. 3 overall pick in the 2021 draft with Trey Lance. The rest of the 2022 draft are nothing special. No PB or AP honors.
From 2021, completely missed on no. 3 overall pick, QB Trey Lance. They got another starter level OL in Aaron Banks and also starters in CB Deommodore Lenoir and S Talanoa Hufanga. Hufanga, a R6 pick, is the only player to have excelled, garnering AP1 status last year. Again, a late round flyer that turned to gold.
From 2020, again only two starters: OL Colton McKivitz and WR Brandon Aiyuk, and no PB or AP honors. Aiyuk is finally showing something this year after 3 nondescript years of play.
2019 is about the only recent year you can point to and say AHA! They drafted Nick Bosa, Deebo Samuel, and Dre Greenlaw. They also drafted 2nd overall. Nick Bosa was the no. 2 overall pick gift for sucking the year prior. Credit for Samuel and Greenlaw. Quality picks. Bosa and Samuel have each been selected AP/PB.
From 2018, about the only player worth mentioning is Fred Warner, a R3 pick. He's developed into a stud. AP/PB honors. The rest? Nothing of note.
George Kittle was a R5 hit from 2017. The rest? Meh.
Deforest Buckner was the overall no. 7 pick in 2016. The rest? Pfft.
I'll grant they've hit on some players over the years but they miss on players just as consistently as anybody else. The fact they picked near the top of the draft for many of those years should also tarnish some of what they've been able to accomplish through the draft. It's a heckuva lot easier to nab a player like Bosa when you're picking from no. 2 overall. Conversely, they completely missed after trading up for no. 3 overall in 2021.
Of note, from 2016 - 2021, the 49ers were picking in the top half (all but one a top 10 pick) of the draft:
2016 - 7th
2017 - 3rd
2018 - 9th
2019 - 2nd
2020 - 14th
2021 - 3rd
The 49ers didn't have a R1 in 2022 or R1/R2 in 2023 due to trading them away.
So I think it's fair to say if you're gonna be effusive in singing their praises for drafting these guys, it's also fair to temper that praise in consideration for where they were drafting every year.
Anyway, I just wanted to share some perspective in light of seeing several posters singing the praises of the awesome 49ers and their awesome organization. They embraced the suck for many years to get to where they are now and are no more consistent in their drafts than anyone else.
Brandon Aiyuk had 78 catches for 1,015 yards and scored 8 touchdowns in 17 games in 2022. I don't believe that those #s indicate "nondescript play."
Especially given that he plays on a team with other legitimate offensive weapons in Kittle, Samuel, and McCaffrey.
In addition to their many draft hits outside of round 1 like Kittle, Samuel, Purdy, Warner, Greenlaw, Hufanga and more, the 49ers are also willing to trade draft picks for established NFL veterans such as LT Trent Williams and RB Christian McCaffrey.
In short, the 49ers have both out-drafted the Packers after round 1 and they have been more willing to take chances by trading draft picks for veteran players to build their roster.
If one looks at the other remaining undefeated NFL team the Philadelphia Eagles, there are many similarities with the way they and the 49ers built their rosters, not the least of which are that Philly is willing to trade picks for players such as Slay, Swift, and AJ Browm in order to fill holes on the roster.
When is the last time GB made such a trade?
Perhaps it is also worth noting that both Philly and SF have been to two Super Bowls, each with 2 different QBs and 2 different head coaches, since GB's last appearance.
Perfect post. This stuff is obvious to people not looking to make excuses for Green Bay. The whole league knows the niners roster is best in league by a lot and majority of the fire power came not from FA signings, but draft picks and trades.
I agree that Love developing into an average QB definitely isn't good enough after Gutekunst traded up in the first round to select him with the team having a HOF QB on the roster while coming off making it to the NFCCG the previous year.
Even if this wasn't the circumstance under which he was drafted, average or good QB play still will not be enough for Green Bay to win a Super Bowl IMO.
One of our fellow posters here on this forum once posited the idea that teams are at their best when they build rosters and play to the identity of that franchise. i.e. Bears are best when they have a great defense, Rams are best with a high powered offense, etc..
I happen to agree with that idea.
We need to be asking ourselves the right questions about any Packers QB. It's a waste of time to be asking if our QB can be merely serviceable like Dak Prescott. Because Green Bay is at a disadvantage in the free agent market. It is far less likely that a Green Bay QB will ever have a Brock Purdy/SF situation IMO, than it is for most other teams. We need great QB play and should be asking ourselves whether our Packers QB can be great, not if he can be just good enough.
I don’t really agree with that, we just have lots of pressure every year on our drafts. More pressure than most, because we don’t get the FAs. But just off your example of the niners…majority of that offense was drafted. Purdy, aiyuk, kittle, Deebo…all a result of just banger drafts. Draft like that and you can win with a Purdy. If you actually play him and don’t sit him for 3 seasons.
The one guy of course they have on O that is great that was brought in was via trade..mccafrey. So players couldn’t really say no to that anyways.
I could see some players not wanting to come to GB due to the city and weather, but also many May love the history. I think the reason we don’t get many FAs is less about the location, and more about our refusal to overspend. Most teams that land big FAs overpay, and for better or worse, we don’t like doing that. The one year we did do that, we got plenty of FAs..Preston, Z, and Amos all said they came to GB bc the GB offer was higher.
Those are offers you can make all the time when you find your qb in the 7th round
You said that you disagree but then proceed to explain why I am right. You are correct, we typically are going to need to pony up more money than other franchises if we want to land an impact FA. So yes, I would argue that drafting is more important to the Packers than to other franchises.
But why just focus on the Packers? We can simplify it and take a macro view. QB's to win each of the last 15 Super Bowls:
Mahomes
Stafford
Brady
Mahomes
Brady
Foles
Brady
Manning
Brady
Wilson
Flacco
E. Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Big Ben
I would say that every single one of those guys was either great or, if not, he was able to step up during high-pressure situations with poise and lead his team when it counted.
So, is it possible to win with good or average at QB? Yes. But it is becoming increasingly unlikely in recent years IMO.
Even if this wasn't the circumstance under which he was drafted, average or good QB play still will not be enough for Green Bay to win a Super Bowl IMO.
One of our fellow posters here on this forum once posited the idea that teams are at their best when they build rosters and play to the identity of that franchise. i.e. Bears are best when they have a great defense, Rams are best with a high powered offense, etc..
I happen to agree with that idea.
We need to be asking ourselves the right questions about any Packers QB. It's a waste of time to be asking if our QB can be merely serviceable like Dak Prescott. Because Green Bay is at a disadvantage in the free agent market. It is far less likely that a Green Bay QB will ever have a Brock Purdy/SF situation IMO, than it is for most other teams. We need great QB play and should be asking ourselves whether our Packers QB can be great, not if he can be just good enough.
I don’t really agree with that, we just have lots of pressure every year on our drafts. More pressure than most, because we don’t get the FAs. But just off your example of the niners…majority of that offense was drafted. Purdy, aiyuk, kittle, Deebo…all a result of just banger drafts. Draft like that and you can win with a Purdy. If you actually play him and don’t sit him for 3 seasons.
The one guy of course they have on O that is great that was brought in was via trade..mccafrey. So players couldn’t really say no to that anyways.
I could see some players not wanting to come to GB due to the city and weather, but also many May love the history. I think the reason we don’t get many FAs is less about the location, and more about our refusal to overspend. Most teams that land big FAs overpay, and for better or worse, we don’t like doing that. The one year we did do that, we got plenty of FAs..Preston, Z, and Amos all said they came to GB bc the GB offer was higher.
Those are offers you can make all the time when you find your qb in the 7th round
You said that you disagree but then proceed to explain why I am right. You are correct, we typically are going to need to pony up more money than other franchises if we want to land an impact FA. So yes, I would argue that drafting is more important to the Packers than to other franchises.
But why just focus on the Packers? We can simplify it and take a macro view. QB's to win each of the last 15 Super Bowls:
Mahomes
Stafford
Brady
Mahomes
Brady
Foles
Brady
Manning
Brady
Wilson
Flacco
E. Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Big Ben
I would say that every single one of those guys was either great or, if not, he was able to step up during high-pressure situations with poise and lead his team when it counted.
So, is it possible to win with good or average at QB? Yes. But it is becoming increasingly unlikely in recent years IMO.
I def agree with you that having a HOF QB is better than not having a HOF QB.
We protect Love better or we'll ruin him, the first year for a QB is make or break year.
thanks for sharing.
Bingo.
This is a very real possibility. The Oline is doing OK in pass protection but they suck as run blockers and without a credible running game the opposing defense will tee off in a pass rush. They desperately need Jenkins back at 100%. They desperately need Myers and JRJ to step up and for Tom and Walker to become veterans. The potential is there but except for JRJ and a hobbled Jenkins, the experience is not. Also it is time to find out what Rhyan is. If it were me I would find an upgrade for Newman in they bye, a trade or a sign off someone's PS.
But just off your example of the niners…majority of that offense was drafted. Purdy, aiyuk, kittle, Deebo…all a result of just banger drafts. Draft like that and you can win with a Purdy. If you actually play him and don’t sit him for 3 seasons.
The 49ers have not had the "banger drafts" like many believe them to have had. They have hit on a player or two in some years, just like many teams do, but to characterize their drafts as consistently exemplary is a serious stretch.
2023 is still too early to cast judgment but no current starters from that group. Considering they traded away their top draft capital to get McCaffrey (first pick was R3) I'd say it's likely there are no gamechangers among this group but you never know.
From 2022, the only players that have managed to crack the starting lineup are OL Spencer Burford and Purdy. The 49ers got extremely lucky with Purdy. He is absolutely the exception to the rule. His ascension to QB1 also comes with the caveat they blew the no. 3 overall pick in the 2021 draft with Trey Lance. The rest of the 2022 draft are nothing special. No PB or AP honors.
From 2021, completely missed on no. 3 overall pick, QB Trey Lance. They got another starter level OL in Aaron Banks and also starters in CB Deommodore Lenoir and S Talanoa Hufanga. Hufanga, a R6 pick, is the only player to have excelled, garnering AP1 status last year. Again, a late round flyer that turned to gold.
From 2020, again only two starters: OL Colton McKivitz and WR Brandon Aiyuk, and no PB or AP honors. Aiyuk is finally showing something this year after 3 nondescript years of play.
2019 is about the only recent year you can point to and say AHA! They drafted Nick Bosa, Deebo Samuel, and Dre Greenlaw. They also drafted 2nd overall. Nick Bosa was the no. 2 overall pick gift for sucking the year prior. Credit for Samuel and Greenlaw. Quality picks. Bosa and Samuel have each been selected AP/PB.
From 2018, about the only player worth mentioning is Fred Warner, a R3 pick. He's developed into a stud. AP/PB honors. The rest? Nothing of note.
George Kittle was a R5 hit from 2017. The rest? Meh.
Deforest Buckner was the overall no. 7 pick in 2016. The rest? Pfft.
I'll grant they've hit on some players over the years but they miss on players just as consistently as anybody else. The fact they picked near the top of the draft for many of those years should also tarnish some of what they've been able to accomplish through the draft. It's a heckuva lot easier to nab a player like Bosa when you're picking from no. 2 overall. Conversely, they completely missed after trading up for no. 3 overall in 2021.
Of note, from 2016 - 2021, the 49ers were picking in the top half (all but one a top 10 pick) of the draft:
2016 - 7th
2017 - 3rd
2018 - 9th
2019 - 2nd
2020 - 14th
2021 - 3rd
The 49ers didn't have a R1 in 2022 or R1/R2 in 2023 due to trading them away.
So I think it's fair to say if you're gonna be effusive in singing their praises for drafting these guys, it's also fair to temper that praise in consideration for where they were drafting every year.
Anyway, I just wanted to share some perspective in light of seeing several posters singing the praises of the awesome 49ers and their awesome organization. They embraced the suck for many years to get to where they are now and are no more consistent in their drafts than anyone else.
Brandon Aiyuk had 78 catches for 1,015 yards and scored 8 touchdowns in 17 games in 2022. I don't believe that those #s indicate "nondescript play."
Especially given that he plays on a team with other legitimate offensive weapons in Kittle, Samuel, and McCaffrey.
In addition to their many draft hits outside of round 1 like Kittle, Samuel, Purdy, Warner, Greenlaw, Hufanga and more, the 49ers are also willing to trade draft picks for established NFL veterans such as LT Trent Williams and RB Christian McCaffrey.
In short, the 49ers have both out-drafted the Packers after round 1 and they have been more willing to take chances by trading draft picks for veteran players to build their roster.
If one looks at the other remaining undefeated NFL team the Philadelphia Eagles, there are many similarities with the way they and the 49ers built their rosters, not the least of which are that Philly is willing to trade picks for players such as Slay, Swift, and AJ Browm in order to fill holes on the roster.
When is the last time GB made such a trade?
Perhaps it is also worth noting that both Philly and SF have been to two Super Bowls, each with 2 different QBs and 2 different head coaches, since GB's last appearance.
I guess I’m just not communicating very effectively.
My post was directed specifically toward refuting a claim of recent 49er “banger” drafts made by a member.
I acknowledged some successes they’ve had in mid/late round picks. I also acknowledged hitting on the no. 2 overall pick a few years back. Hell, if it means that much to you to shine a light on Aiyuk’s 17 game barely 1k yd season while the team’s WR1 fought through an injury plagued season, I’ll concede it. But you cannot deny they’ve had plenty of misses, and those misses have come from draft positions consistently within the top 10 of rounds over the past (near) decade.
One solid pick from the 5th round does not completely dismiss misses in rounds 1-4. One stud LB pick in R3 does not overshadow misses in every other round. When taken in whole, hits and misses, they’ve been no better than any other typical drafting team. Worse than several, actually, when you consider the position they were drafting from and the top end whiffs.
And yes, better than the Packers, who have missed completely on quite a few drafts lately albeit drafting from consistently unfavorable (low) draft positions. But I never said the Packer drafts (of late) compared favorably to those of the 49ers. Why was that comparison even brought up in your response?
Further, you went on to refute my post with other roster building moves the 49ers have recently made i.e. trades and FA signings. Again, I never even addressed those things. My post was aimed specifically to a distorted claim of 49er “banger” drafts.
Hopefully this clears up my point. I’m not sure why my words are being continually misconstrued, and not only by you, but it’s become a thing lately.
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