Packers Huddle

paco wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 08:23

NCF wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 08:18

He really, Really, REALLY didn't want to play in GB.

Considering he's on their practice squad, I would say so.

I think the PS is just a 2-week agreement to get him up to speed before they sign him to the active roster for whatever contract they just finished negotiating. He's obviously not going to be ready to play from Day 1, and the PS lets him get in football shape this week, next week, then they have a bye. I'd bet he gets added to the active roster for the first game back after their bye, if not one game later.

Not denying that he didn't want to be here; that's been pretty clear. But I don't think he'd have taken their PS over our active roster if there wasn't a wink-nudge future deal in place.

NCF wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 09:07

Waldo wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 09:04

Aren't you basically describing Keke?

I still think Keke is more of a penetrator. He has been decent, but asking him to replace Kenny takes a lot away from what he does best.

What about Lancaster then?

He is a UDFA who had rookie success. He fits that criteria.

And honestly week 3 and week 4 were really strong weeks for Lancaster. He has improved greatly from last year.

go pak go wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 09:22

NCF wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 09:07

Waldo wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 09:04

Aren't you basically describing Keke?

I still think Keke is more of a penetrator. He has been decent, but asking him to replace Kenny takes a lot away from what he does best.

What about Lancaster then?

He is a UDFA who had rookie success. He fits that criteria.

And honestly week 3 and week 4 were really strong weeks for Lancaster. He has improved greatly from last year.

I'd say not quite good enough. When they are trying to lessen his impact by playing Z at stand up NT, they are obviously trying to cover up for something. He has been better these past few weeks, though, you're right.

go pak go wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 09:04

NCF wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 08:52

go pak go wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 08:46

What else was there? Rookie Dlinemen hardly ever do anything. Unless there is a rookie Dline lighting the world on fire this year that I don't know about.

The obvious answer is contained right within your words, here. They could have been and should have been more prepared prior to this past offseason. A low round draft pick, a bargain FA, or even an UDFA that could grow into a rotational player. When the plan is Kenny Clark better stay healthy, its not a good enough plan. And Plan B, which includes Z can play some stand-up NT, shows how ill-equipped we are to weather this.

I mean I'm not gonna argue that. Every year in my mock drafts I am obsessed with finding a good 2 gapper.

In 2018 I wanted Vita Vea.
In 2019 I wanted Lawrence.

But I am also happy we have Alexander and Gary as I think these two will also be studs.

But if you're saying we should have used low resouces to find a good rotational player...we did do that. Management bet on Lowry, Keke, Adams and Lancaster to be able to fill in that next rotatioanl Dlinemen spot. I don't see that approach all that much different from management placing a bet on Bobert Tonyan, Sternberger, Deguara taking over TE #1.

What I am happy about is we have seen steady improvement from this Dline each game since Clark went down. They were horrible Week 2. They weren't bad Week 3 and I would actually say they played pretty well Week 4. And the Falcons Oline isn't a joke either.

I do believe there are and were lower named guys who could help stuff the run. Not guys who are elite, but big bodies who are told to plug a gap. Wynn seems like he is in that mold, glad we have him.

As for other things we could do...my dream would have been to move up to get Kinlaw. If he was too far up and that wasn’t possible (understandable), my next plan would have been to trade back a few slots or just stay put and draft Raekwon Davis. We have tons of assets at OLB, I would like to see an effort to beef up the DL. Sure kenny is awesome! But why can’t we have two awesome guys on the DL? The best teams sure seem to. Also the teams that trouble us.

By the end of this year a DL that had keke, Lowry, and Lancaster rotating...with Kenny and Raekwon or Even some of the other guys that went in the second round would have helped this team this year, the year we are in position to win it all...more than Love or Dillon will.

It’s my position that Snacks obviously was never an option, but he was far from the only option. And as good as the team has looked so far this year, the main problem from last year did not get adequately addressed.

Now it’s possible the offense hums so much all year, that it NEVER hurts us...i hope that’s the case. But for us to have been as complete of a team as we could be, putting a higher quality player beside Kenny would have been Ideal in my opinion.

Holy cow, Billy Wynn is 31 years old?

Was not expecting that.

I'm not going to argue that. I too wanted to use our top pick on either ILB, WR, or DT. I think most of us did.

We didn't use pick 1 on any of those. It sucks because we don't see immediate returns. Especially when it appears we have a team that can win now.

I will also urge to let this play out. If our ILB shows a huge hole, I guarantee it will be a very popular thing to look at Patrick Queen as the "I told you so player". But none of us really predicted Krys Barnes would come in and actually be better than Queen so that talk for the moment has died down.

On the other hand, DL has shown its weakness so that is a popular thing to complain about. I have been wanting one for the last three years too. I said so as much. Like Vita Vea was my guy in 2018. He and Edmunds.

But let's allow this to play out. When Clark comes back, we have an All-Pro DT who can shoot the gap or plug the whole. We also have a young and ascending player who is finding himself and is showing lots of promise of being that Dlinemen who can shoot the gap and create havoc on the QB (that's a very hard thing to find the draft). We then two have Lancaster and Adams who are showing they can spell Clark when needed on those rare snaps to plug holes when necessary. Especially in games where we are up on the scoreboard a bit more.

And Dean....well we have Dean.

DT will absolutely be a top need going into the 2021 draft. But I also get that we were put in a tough spot on that Dline. However, I think the mini absence by Clark may actually end up being a good thing. We adjusted. We won and we had players who ascended on their own without Clark. That's a good thing.

Point differential via McGinn

"The Packers, one of six unbeaten teams, lead the NFL in point differential at plus-51. Baltimore is plus-49, Kansas City and Indianapolis are plus-47, Seattle is plus-33 and Tampa Bay is plus-28.

Last season, the Packers tied for the NFL’s second-best record in the regular season at 13-3 but ranked a modest ninth in point differential at plus-63."

Kamal Martin and Krys Barnes... do we have an ILB duo?

I think it's pretty clear that the issue of "being more prepared for this" is more of "our moves haven't worked" than "we haven't made the moves."

Spending the 3rd on Adams and being patient with his development. Spotting ready-to-go talent in Lancaster as an UDFA, and again being patient with his development. Spending a 5th on Keke.

The right amount of support for the DL aside from Kenny has been spent, but with Lancaster and Adams and to a degree Clark seemingly hitting a plateau in terms of level of play far short of what we hoped from their development, we've just come up empty thus far. And that happens. You don't hit 'em all... but when you have some misses, you're forced to correct; hence my calling for Dareus for 3 months, haha.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 10:10

but when you have some misses, you're forced to correct; hence my calling for Dareus for 3 months, haha.

I'm not laughing. Lancaster and Adams were disappointments last year. I get having patience, but I feel the time for correction has come... so correct it, already.

The travesty here is not taking Jeffery Simmons (Tennessee 20th pick) at 12 last year. He was a clear top 5 talent until injuring his knee before the draft process. That was discounted talent at its finest and currently one of the best defenders in all of football. He came that way out the gate. He would have filled a massive need and help rectify the horrible Dean Lowry deal.

Instead they take Rashan Gary who spends most of the time on the bench behind two pass rushers we just paid long term deals.

NCF wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 10:07

Kamal Martin and Krys Barnes... do we have an ILB duo?

I hope Martin plays when he gets back but I get the sense because he’s a rookie he won’t. Barnes has one ILB spot locked up and the other has to wear the green dot. I can’t imagine the Packers giving that to a rookie. They’re usually very conservative with rookies.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 10:21

I hope Martin plays when he gets back but I get the sense because he’s a rookie he won’t. Barnes has one ILB spot locked up and the other has to wear the green dot. I can’t imagine the Packers giving that to a rookie. They’re usually very conservative with rookies.

I'm optimistic he will. Didn't Barnes wear the green dot against Atlanta? I know most expected Summers to, but then that didn't happen.

NCF wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 10:25

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 10:21

I hope Martin plays when he gets back but I get the sense because he’s a rookie he won’t. Barnes has one ILB spot locked up and the other has to wear the green dot. I can’t imagine the Packers giving that to a rookie. They’re usually very conservative with rookies.

I'm optimistic he will. Didn't Barnes wear the green dot against Atlanta? I know most expected Summers to, but then that didn't happen.

I thought Summers was wearing the dot. Could be wrong.

The benefit of injury is it forces hands. We already had a rookie take the green dot from Summers on Monday.

Barnes had the communications helmet Monday Night. Kirksey is likely out for a while and they won't push brining Kirksey back if Barnes and Summers play well. At this point I have no idea on Kamal. I figured we wouldn't see him until around Halloween anyways.

I hard Barnes hurt himself on his awesome defended play to know the ball away from Savage. We have no word on his injury. Really, really hope it is not serious.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 10:27

NCF wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 10:25

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 10:21

I hope Martin plays when he gets back but I get the sense because he’s a rookie he won’t. Barnes has one ILB spot locked up and the other has to wear the green dot. I can’t imagine the Packers giving that to a rookie. They’re usually very conservative with rookies.

I'm optimistic he will. Didn't Barnes wear the green dot against Atlanta? I know most expected Summers to, but then that didn't happen.

I thought Summers was wearing the dot. Could be wrong.

Rookie inside linebacker Krys Barnes was given play-calling duties by defensive coordinator Mike Pettine during the week

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sport ... 620539001/

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 10:20

The travesty here is not taking Jeffery Simmons (Tennessee 20th pick) at 12 last year. He was a clear top 5 talent until injuring his knee before the draft process. That was discounted talent at its finest and currently one of the best defenders in all of football. He came that way out the gate. He would have filled a massive need and help rectify the horrible Dean Lowry deal.

Instead they take Rashan Gary who spends most of the time on the bench behind two pass rushers we just paid long term deals.

If Gary gets healthy, I think Preston Smith will be on the sidelines a lot more. Gary has already surpassed Preston in terms of play.

Although that isn't saying much. Preston has been bad this year.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

07 Oct 2020 10:20

The travesty here is not taking Jeffery Simmons (Tennessee 20th pick) at 12 last year. He was a clear top 5 talent until injuring his knee before the draft process. That was discounted talent at its finest and currently one of the best defenders in all of football. He came that way out the gate. He would have filled a massive need and help rectify the horrible Dean Lowry deal.

Instead they take Rashan Gary who spends most of the time on the bench behind two pass rushers we just paid long term deals.

Completely agree. That’s where my push back comes from that we have done all we can do to fix the issue. Snacks may not have been possible, spending big money may not have been wise, but we have had two drafts now since we knew the issue was an issue and options to help us have been there.

Oh snap. Well then it that case there’s no reason not to play Martin out there.

Is this the right space to point out that Deguara has played 11% of offensive snaps through 4 games, Dillon has played 5.43% of snaps. Love, obviously, none. Martin hasn't had a chance to play yet. Runyan has played 8.33% due to numerous injuries in front of him.

Is it still too early for me to theorize that MLF doesn't like playing rookies if he doesn't have to (and as a reminder of my case, Savage and Jenkins... he had to; and one only happened due to injury).

This is why I think the "will they help us THIS YEAR" arguments about the draft are fairly misguided. Not only is it risky to expect that in the NFL, generally, outside of non-QB, non-DT first-round picks.... but a) the COVID offseason and b) MLF's generalized hesitancy to put rookies on the field all combine to make the draft a much better time to prepare 2 years out (or maybe 3) than a place to improve in a single offseason.

That's why we signed Kirksey and Funchess to short-term deals and attempted to sign a variety of DTs for the right price. It's why they signed Amos, Turner, and the Smiths the year before. The team's philosophy seems to clearly prefer that quick fixes be made in free agency (be it a splash when able or bargains when needed) and longer-term questions are answered in the draft. If you get 2-3 years of starter play on a rookie contract, it's still a bargain; you don't need 4-year starters on rookie deals.

This is the exact thing we complained about with TT, right? By ignoring free agency in a lot of years at a lot of positions, we put a lot of rookies on the field every year and then got mad when they made rookie mistakes. This is a small step toward the middle from that approach. Not a total reversal of a mostly-successful strategy, but a moderation of it to try to compensate for the weaknesses.