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I will say it again, this has little to do with how crisp or sloppy the route is run... NFL routes are much more than that. I guess your ignorance of the pro game is greater than I thought.
quit insulting people, your so out in left field with your comments, of course people can see if a receiver rounds his freaking route, or isn't able to win 1x1's or is stymied at the LOS, look how GPG complained of Jones not turning out instead of in when he failed to get out of bounds to stop the clock last year, you seem to be the only blind guy in this room and can't see this stuff.
I didn't say someone can not see if a receiver runs a crisp route or not.Yoop wrote: ↑04 Aug 2022 22:41quit insulting people, your so out in left field with your comments, of course people can see if a receiver rounds his freaking route, or isn't able to win 1x1's or is stymied at the LOS, look how GPG complained of Jones not turning out instead of in when he failed to get out of bounds to stop the clock last year, you seem to be the only blind guy in this room and can't see this stuff.
Sullivan in his game summery mentions this type stuff every week, and here you are calling us nuts and liars, F Y.
Literally what I have been saying the entire time: There is SO much more to an NFL play or even more specifically a route than the crispness, the ability to win 1 on 1, or defeat the press... That's the easy stuff to see, that's the tip of the iceberg of an NFL route. THAT has not been and is not what I am talking about.So you are saying you have the play book, you know what routes are to be run against the alignments the defense gives and the after snap drops they exhibit? You have been in the meeting rooms and spoken with players and/or coaches to know the nuances of the routes and how Aaron Rodgers would like to have them run?...
Do you understand how large an NFL playbook is? Do you understand that each route run on each play has multiple variations depending on the presnap alignment of the defense and the coverage?
Guy who needs a peak at the playbook to evaluate the quality of a route, has a tantrum and calls others ignorant. Cant make it up, but funny stuff tho. Lol!!!
oh so now your going to resort to tell me who has watched and actually played this game 40 years before you where even born the intricacies of running a pass route, to funny.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2022 22:53I didn't say someone can not see if a receiver runs a crisp route or not.Yoop wrote: ↑04 Aug 2022 22:41quit insulting people, your so out in left field with your comments, of course people can see if a receiver rounds his freaking route, or isn't able to win 1x1's or is stymied at the LOS, look how GPG complained of Jones not turning out instead of in when he failed to get out of bounds to stop the clock last year, you seem to be the only blind guy in this room and can't see this stuff.
Sullivan in his game summery mentions this type stuff every week, and here you are calling us nuts and liars, F Y.
There is SO much more to an NFL play or even more specifically a route than the crispness, the ability to win 1 on 1, or defeat the press... That's the easy stuff to see, that's the tip of the iceberg of an NFL route. THAT has not been and is not what I am talking about.So you are saying you have the play book, you know what routes are to be run against the alignments the defense gives and the after snap drops they exhibit? You have been in the meeting rooms and spoken with players and/or coaches to know the nuances of the routes and how Aaron Rodgers would like to have them run?...
Do you understand how large an NFL playbook is? Do you understand that each route run on each play has multiple variations depending on the presnap alignment of the defense and the coverage?
To know where the catch point should be a person would need to know the playbook and how the team/QB wants the routes to be run. NO ONE here knows either.
Don't try to strawman me because you didn't realize how complex an NFL play is.
and heres the person that new what I was talking about, yet for &%$@ and grins points out the difference as though drops are more important then actually getting a hand on the football, do you people even realize how rediculous that is, obviously not.
No, actually. What I "knew" was what you actually posted, that MVS "dropped" 50% of the passes that went his way.
Again, nope. Not talking about the quality of the route, how crisp or sloppy it is. There is much more that goes into a route that determines the catch point, which was the OPs main topic. Yes, if one doesn't understand that a route is more complex than simply crispness, they are lacking knowledge. Maybe my third time pointing this out will help you grasp the point?Drj820 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 04:20Guy who needs a peak at the playbook to evaluate the quality of a route, has a tantrum and calls others ignorant. Cant make it up, but funny stuff tho. Lol!!!
you've been condescending to both J and me with your silly post, NO ONE NEEDS TO KNOW THE FREAKING PLAY BOOK to know if MVS can't get a hand on the pass 50% of the time ( that gracious of me, usually if hovers at 40% ) that he is the problem and not RodgersPckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 07:07Again, nope. Not talking about the quality of the route, how crisp or sloppy it is. I guess your reading comprehension suffers as well. If you see calling out your lack of knowledge of how complex an NFL route actually is is a tantrum than you have some pretty thin skin, but I suspect it is nothing of the sort and you are simply saying things to get reaction. A troll. Very sophomoric of you.
No, I am not just doing it now, I have been doing it this entire time. Age does not automatically equal knowledge.Yoop wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 06:37oh so now your going to resort to tell me who has watched and actually played this game 40 years before you where even born the intricacies of running a pass route, to funny.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2022 22:53I didn't say someone can not see if a receiver runs a crisp route or not.Yoop wrote: ↑04 Aug 2022 22:41
quit insulting people, your so out in left field with your comments, of course people can see if a receiver rounds his freaking route, or isn't able to win 1x1's or is stymied at the LOS, look how GPG complained of Jones not turning out instead of in when he failed to get out of bounds to stop the clock last year, you seem to be the only blind guy in this room and can't see this stuff.
Sullivan in his game summery mentions this type stuff every week, and here you are calling us nuts and liars, F Y.
There is SO much more to an NFL play or even more specifically a route than the crispness, the ability to win 1 on 1, or defeat the press... That's the easy stuff to see, that's the tip of the iceberg of an NFL route. THAT has not been and is not what I am talking about.So you are saying you have the play book, you know what routes are to be run against the alignments the defense gives and the after snap drops they exhibit? You have been in the meeting rooms and spoken with players and/or coaches to know the nuances of the routes and how Aaron Rodgers would like to have them run?...
Do you understand how large an NFL playbook is? Do you understand that each route run on each play has multiple variations depending on the presnap alignment of the defense and the coverage?
To know where the catch point should be a person would need to know the playbook and how the team/QB wants the routes to be run. NO ONE here knows either.
Don't try to strawman me because you didn't realize how complex an NFL play is.
I really don't care about any of that. I have been questioning how someone with no knowledge of the playbook or access to the coaches/players knows exactly where the catch point would be.ya don't need to know any of that stuff, obviously Rodgers misses a receiver at times, but he's the best in the business, again, if he can hit Adams in stride, and Jones and past receivers and rarely connected 50% of the time with Scantling, then the problem is with Scantling, and if you can't accept that then the problem is also on YOU.
How do you know the routes are accurate? Crispness is easy to see, but only a small part of what makes a route a quality route. There are many variations of a route on a given play depending on defensive alignment and coverage. The receivers route has to reflect this. The problem lies in that we don't know how a receiver should adjust their route. We aren't privy to the playbook and this can not accurately say where the catch point should be.I explained to you in detail why some receivers do well and others struggle, should be very easy to understand, Doubs is doing well because he runs accurate and crisp routes, route running is the key to being a successful WR, if ya don't think thats accurate just go ask anyone you respect.
Without a playbook you can't determine where the catch point should be and differentiate between a receiver not running the correct route and ball placement that was not right? (Not talking about crispness of the route, a route can be crisp and yet still run poorly)Yoop wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 07:17
you've been condescending to both J and me with your silly post, NO ONE NEEDS TO KNOW THE FREAKING PLAY BOOK to know if MVS can't get a hand on the pass 50% of the time ( that gracious of me, usually if hovers at 40% ) that he is the problem and not Rodgers
Hey APB, why don't you snip some of 23's smart aleck argumentative comments, it is idiotic to blame Rodgers when it is beyond obvious that Scantling couldn't run a route to keep his job here, common knowledge from anyone that isn't hell bent on hating Rodgers and defending receivers like Scantling
NO, what has meaning is what I was trying to get across, there is no drop unless you touch the ball, your right about that, but there also isn't a catch, and MVS only one season caught 50% of targets, the other 3 seasons less, and who gets the blame for his ineptitude? Rodgers of course.APB wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 06:44No, actually. What I "knew" was what you actually posted, that MVS "dropped" 50% of the passes that went his way.
Words have meaning, no matter how "ridiculous" it may sound to you.
who cares about the nuances of route running, of course we are not privy to all that stuff, what matters and points out poor route running is the fact that MVS for 3 of his 4 years here didn't even come that close to the 50% catch rate he got in 2020, seriously what reason would you come up with for those failures, this is why your questioning doesn't hold water, nothing matters more then Scantling getting a hand on the ball, and he rarely did it on half the balls thrown in his direction.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 07:22No, I am not just doing it now, I have been doing it this entire time. Age does not automatically equal knowledge.Yoop wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 06:37oh so now your going to resort to tell me who has watched and actually played this game 40 years before you where even born the intricacies of running a pass route, to funny.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑04 Aug 2022 22:53
I didn't say someone can not see if a receiver runs a crisp route or not.
There is SO much more to an NFL play or even more specifically a route than the crispness, the ability to win 1 on 1, or defeat the press... That's the easy stuff to see, that's the tip of the iceberg of an NFL route. THAT has not been and is not what I am talking about.
To know where the catch point should be a person would need to know the playbook and how the team/QB wants the routes to be run. NO ONE here knows either.
Don't try to strawman me because you didn't realize how complex an NFL play is.
I really don't care about any of that. I have been questioning how someone with no knowledge of the playbook or access to the coaches/players knows exactly where the catch point would be.ya don't need to know any of that stuff, obviously Rodgers misses a receiver at times, but he's the best in the business, again, if he can hit Adams in stride, and Jones and past receivers and rarely connected 50% of the time with Scantling, then the problem is with Scantling, and if you can't accept that then the problem is also on YOU.
How do you know the routes are accurate? Crispness is easy to see, but only a small part of what makes a route a quality route. There are many variations of a route on a given play depending on defensive alignment and coverage. The receivers route has to reflect this. The problem lies in that we don't know how a receiver should adjust their route. We aren't privy to the playbook and this can not accurately say where the catch point should be.I explained to you in detail why some receivers do well and others struggle, should be very easy to understand, Doubs is doing well because he runs accurate and crisp routes, route running is the key to being a successful WR, if ya don't think thats accurate just go ask anyone you respect.
And the funny thing is: Even if you give MVS a fair treatment, and consider those valid reasons, without stooping to yoop's stat-abusing ways, it's still clear MVS's catch rate and performance was not that of a good player.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 08:04Who cares about the nuances?! Holy hell, that's an important part if you want to know where the catch point should be.
That MVS had a catch rate of just over 52% for 2 of his 4 years does not automatically point to poor route running. There are many factors that go into it including deep routes are harder to complete. There are many valid reasons why MVS had a lower catch rate.
The number one variable I would associate MVS's catch rate the most is based on the type of routes he was assigned and the distance of throws he was given from the Line of Scrimmage.Yoop wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 07:29NO, what has meaning is what I was trying to get across, there is no drop unless you touch the ball, your right about that, but there also isn't a catch, and MVS only one season caught 50% of targets, the other 3 seasons less, and who gets the blame for his ineptitude? Rodgers of course.
you new what I was getting at when I said, but then that wouldn't start a argument
Very good post.salmar80 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 08:59And the funny thing is: Even if you give MVS a fair treatment, and consider those valid reasons, without stooping to yoop's stat-abusing ways, it's still clear MVS's catch rate and performance was not that of a good player.Pckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 08:04Who cares about the nuances?! Holy hell, that's an important part if you want to know where the catch point should be.
That MVS had a catch rate of just over 52% for 2 of his 4 years does not automatically point to poor route running. There are many factors that go into it including deep routes are harder to complete. There are many valid reasons why MVS had a lower catch rate.
He was far from a great route-runner, and his easy drops and non-playmaking ways were maddening. That's where the "50% MVS" -thing spawned from, not from some catch rate stat: Even if a pass was great and MVS got open and was it position to make a play, it felt like a coin flip whether he'd catch it. Either a big play or a faceplant.
He did get a bit better at that in his senior season with us, but it wasn't a big enough leap to think he'd ever become a good overall WR. The ultimate assessment came from Gutey, who does not let good homegrown talent leave in their prime, and MVS wasn't good.
@Yoop - Do you consider what I wrote above as "defending MVS". Honest question.
more BS, deep routes are completed just as much if not more then the short routes as long as the receiver consistently runs his routes the same, just go back and look how well Rodgers connected with Nelson, Jones, Jennings Cobb, Adams, the list goes on, it doesn't happen with guys like Scantling because they fail to consistently run those routes, common freaking knowledge to anyone that actually watches games, what radio station do you usually listen to?Pckfn23 wrote: ↑05 Aug 2022 08:04Who cares about the nuances?! Holy hell, that's an important part if you want to know where the catch point should be.
That MVS had a catch rate of just over 52% for 2 of his 4 years does not automatically point to poor route running. There are many factors that go into it including deep routes are harder to complete. There are many valid reasons why MVS had a lower catch rate.