Packers Huddle

People act as though Hayward is the only player we've had that produced well with a chip on there shoulder after leaving or coming here,

I have to assume these people are not on this forum?

Wasn't Hayward supposedly some sort of diva? Not saying it would justify us letting him go, but maybe the front office didn't see him as a good fit for the culture.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 14:01

People act as though Hayward is the only player we've had that produced well with a chip on there shoulder after leaving or coming here,

I have to assume these people are not on this forum?

I mean many on this forum including you, you blamed Capers, Ted, and McCarthy just as many others, fact is this stuff happens often, players leave teams and improve because they realize they need to play better, simple as that.

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 15:34

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 14:01

People act as though Hayward is the only player we've had that produced well with a chip on there shoulder after leaving or coming here,

I have to assume these people are not on this forum?

I mean many on this forum including you, you blamed Capers, Ted, and McCarthy just as many others, fact is this stuff happens often, players leave teams and improve because they realize they need to play better, simple as that.

You can't keep them all.

He missed I think all of 2013 with a hamstring, and in 2014 and 205 combined for 3 interceptions over 32 games. We had Shields, Randall and Rollins coming back in their second years. Good on him that he had some really great seasons after he left us. No crystal balls in this business.

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 15:34

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 14:01

People act as though Hayward is the only player we've had that produced well with a chip on there shoulder after leaving or coming here,

I have to assume these people are not on this forum?

I mean many on this forum including you, you blamed Capers, Ted, and McCarthy just as many others, fact is this stuff happens often, players leave teams and improve because they realize they need to play better, simple as that.

None of that means anyone has acted like that doesn't happen or Hayward was the only one to do so.

Players also improve on new teams because they are put in better position to succeed.

Madcity_matt wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 16:06

He missed I think all of 2013 with a hamstring, and in 2014 and 205 combined for 3 interceptions over 32 games. We had Shields, Randall and Rollins coming back in their second years. Good on him that he had some really great seasons after he left us. No crystal balls in this business.

Actually he played quite well in 2015 for us, he was locking players down after we moved him into the slot full time, the week after he got abused against Demariyus Thomas in Denver. It just didn't show on the stat sheet.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 16:24

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 15:34

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 14:01

I have to assume these people are not on this forum?

I mean many on this forum including you, you blamed Capers, Ted, and McCarthy just as many others, fact is this stuff happens often, players leave teams and improve because they realize they need to play better, simple as that.

None of that means anyone has acted like that doesn't happen or Hayward was the only one to do so.

Players also improve on new teams because they are put in better position to succeed.

Hayward had 3 season to regain rookie form, and never did for us, again I stood up for Ted and Capers when that went down, and others here didn't, I wont name names, if the shoe fits wear it.

no one held Hayward back, Hyde took away his snaps simply because Hyde played more physical, Ted didn't draft 2 DB because Hayward did well, so get off this poor Hayward wasn't put in position to succeed with us, thats hog wash and you know it.

Labrev wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 17:05

Madcity_matt wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 16:06

He missed I think all of 2013 with a hamstring, and in 2014 and 205 combined for 3 interceptions over 32 games. We had Shields, Randall and Rollins coming back in their second years. Good on him that he had some really great seasons after he left us. No crystal balls in this business.

Actually he played quite well in 2015 for us, he was locking players down after we moved him into the slot full time, the week after he got abused against Demariyus Thomas in Denver. It just didn't show on the stat sheet.

Hayward imho quit playing the run as he did as a rookie, he had good T totals but all where open field and rarely near the LOS, thats why Hyde played just as much in the slot

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 17:35

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 16:24

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 15:34

I mean many on this forum including you, you blamed Capers, Ted, and McCarthy just as many others, fact is this stuff happens often, players leave teams and improve because they realize they need to play better, simple as that.

None of that means anyone has acted like that doesn't happen or Hayward was the only one to do so.

Players also improve on new teams because they are put in better position to succeed.

Hayward had 3 season to regain rookie form, and never did for us, again I stood up for Ted and Capers when that went down, and others here didn't, I wont name names, if the shoe fits wear it.

no one held Hayward back, Hyde took away his snaps simply because Hyde played more physical, Ted didn't draft 2 DB because Hayward did well, so get off this poor Hayward wasn't put in position to succeed with us, thats hog wash and you know it.

No more hogwash than saying it was due to renewed motivation or a chip on his shoulder.

Maybe it was a little of both being put in a better position to succeed and renewed motivation.

Captain_Ben wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 14:25

Wasn't Hayward supposedly some sort of diva? Not saying it would justify us letting him go, but maybe the front office didn't see him as a good fit for the culture.

never returned to rookie form, some think he had a falling out with staff, rumors, who knows.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 17:42

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 17:35

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 16:24

None of that means anyone has acted like that doesn't happen or Hayward was the only one to do so.

Players also improve on new teams because they are put in better position to succeed.

Hayward had 3 season to regain rookie form, and never did for us, again I stood up for Ted and Capers when that went down, and others here didn't, I wont name names, if the shoe fits wear it.

no one held Hayward back, Hyde took away his snaps simply because Hyde played more physical, Ted didn't draft 2 DB because Hayward did well, so get off this poor Hayward wasn't put in position to succeed with us, thats hog wash and you know it.

No more hogwash than saying it was due to renewed motivation or a chip on his shoulder.

Maybe it was a little of both being put in a better position to succeed and renewed motivation.

It sure as &%$@ wasn't Capers or the position he was put in with us, it was hog wash when you first said it 7 years ago just as it is now, Capers is the coach that took a disgruntled Charles Woodson and found a nitch for him that turned him into one of the best DB's of all time, and if Hayward would have dedicated himself with us the way Charles did, capers would have done the same for him, NO, this is exactly what Hayward finally did for SD,(stepped up his game) but something happened there, either he wanted big money and SD traded him, or something more personal.

go look at Haywards passes defended his last two seasons with us, again Hyde was the slot corner on run plays

Casey Hayward never lost snaps to Micah Hyde.

Casey Haywards snap counts in 2015: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... tasy/2015/

Micah Hyde snap counts in 2015: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... tasy/2014/

Like YPC, which was highlighted in another thread, passes defensed doesn't tell the whole story. Shouldn't we be looking at it more indepth?

As I said, might it not be more than just black and white and be a bit of both?

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 17:59

Casey Hayward never lost snaps to Micah Hyde.

Casey Haywards snap counts in 2015: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... tasy/2015/

Micah Hyde snap counts in 2015: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... tasy/2014/

Like YPC, which was highlighted in another thread, passes defensed doesn't tell the whole story. Shouldn't we be looking at it more indepth?

As I said, might it not be more than just black and white and be a bit of both?

2015 was Haywards best season tackling, I still remember Hyde playing stronger in the box, passes defensed is his main job, he had 21 for us as a rookie and never more the 7 for us again, Hyde probably had that or more.

Hayward was let walk because Ted drafted two CB's because Hayward was a disappointment, and it had nothing to do with where we played him, geesus I can't believe your still thinking we didn't use him right.

THINK: if you lost your job tomorrow the first thing you'd do is re apply what you know to better yourself for your new job, why you don't think that relates to Cassy Hayward is mind boggling, that happens to everyone who loses a job that actually has a modem of self esteem, they try to build a better mouse trap, human freaking nature, and you sit here thinking it was coaching. come on.......

Did I not just write that it may be both coaching and Hayward "bettering himself" that allowed him to succeed after Green Bay? I actually believe this is the 3rd time writing it. So to suggest that anyone here is ignoring or discounting the latter reason is just not accurate, just as I said at the top of this page.

Fact is, the Packers had two All-Pro caliber DBs on the roster in 2015. Problem was they weren’t utilized to their strengths or best positions. As soon as they left GB, Hayward in 2016 and Hyde in 2017, they blossomed. The fact the Packer defensive staff/front office didn’t/couldn’t recognize the players for who they were and chose Randall and Rollins over Hayward and Hyde is criminal.

APB wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 20:16

Fact is, the Packers had two All-Pro caliber DBs on the roster in 2015. Problem was they weren’t utilized to their strengths or best positions. As soon as they left GB, Hayward in 2016 and Hyde in 2017, they blossomed. The fact the Packer defensive staff/front office didn’t/couldn’t recognize the players for who they were and chose Randall and Rollins over Hayward and Hyde is criminal.

Ted just went ahead and drafted two DB's to replace those future PB players, got it he did it because neither of Hyde or Hayward had impressed him or the coaches.

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 22:34

APB wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 20:16

Fact is, the Packers had two All-Pro caliber DBs on the roster in 2015. Problem was they weren’t utilized to their strengths or best positions. As soon as they left GB, Hayward in 2016 and Hyde in 2017, they blossomed. The fact the Packer defensive staff/front office didn’t/couldn’t recognize the players for who they were and chose Randall and Rollins over Hayward and Hyde is criminal.

Ted just went ahead and drafted two DB's to replace those future PB players, got it he did it because neither of Hyde or Hayward had impressed him or the coaches.

Pretty much, yes.

The fact they weren't impressed with them is an indictment on the coaching staff and FO, not the players.

APB wrote: ↑

11 Jul 2023 08:03

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 22:34

APB wrote: ↑

10 Jul 2023 20:16

Fact is, the Packers had two All-Pro caliber DBs on the roster in 2015. Problem was they weren’t utilized to their strengths or best positions. As soon as they left GB, Hayward in 2016 and Hyde in 2017, they blossomed. The fact the Packer defensive staff/front office didn’t/couldn’t recognize the players for who they were and chose Randall and Rollins over Hayward and Hyde is criminal.

Ted just went ahead and drafted two DB's to replace those future PB players, got it he did it because neither of Hyde or Hayward had impressed him or the coaches.

Pretty much, yes.

The fact they weren't impressed with them is an indictment on the coaching staff and FO, not the players.

I think Captain Ben made a good point, Hayward fell out of favor with the coaches and obviously Thompson or he wouldn't have drafted 2 CB's in the first and 2nd round, Hayward after his injury was never the same player he was as a rookie, obvious when ya look at the stats, and remember back to how he played, he didn't want to play physical imho, most of his tackles where 5 yrds or more from the los, thats what I remember, and his pass defensed numbers plummeted from 21 as a rookie to never above 7 his remaining years with us.

He had two great seasons with the Chargers of 20 each season, then declined again to 7 or 8 the rest of his career.

heres what I think, he wanted more from us then we'd give, and the best he could get on the market was what SDC gave him, 6+ mil, chump change for the CB you think he was for us.

Hyde also was a casualty of Ted attempting to improve the secondary, he used a high pick on Haha Dix who found favor right away with the coaches, which also made Hyde expendable.

human nature for a player leaving one team to exert more devotion towards improving for there next team, happens all the time, yet you and Pckfn completely avoid that discussion to me that makes a lot more sense then just blaming a great GM and DC

only the doldrums of the space between OTA's and a much awaited training camp start could resurrect this discussion

Smart teams don't beat themselves against a wall. They don't consistantly throw at the best CB. If there is a tiger at the door you try another door. If there are few targets there are fewer PDs. Hayward was our best CB when we let him go for a cheap 5 mil. He remained a top CB after his All Pro seasons. And teams constantly draft CBs because you eventually have to pay them and they get injured.