Packers Huddle

I just want to state strongly how absolutely awesome a WR corps consisting of the best 6/7 of these players would be through Love’s first three years as a starter and how absolutely affordable and attainable this outcome is:

Christian Watson, 6’4” 208, 4.36
Romeo Doubs, 6’2” 204, ~4.5
Jonathan Mingo, 6’2” 220, 4.46
Corey Davis, 6’3” 209, ~4.5
Andrei Iosivas, 6’3” 205, 4.43
Samori Toure, 6’1” 191, 4.48
Bo Melton, 5’11” 190, 4.34

Some dog mentality in nearly every single one of them, too. This group would be the best blocking receiver group, among the biggest, among the fastest (or 'least slow'), and need lots of coaching but have so much room to grow together. Football personalities are mostly outstanding.

I’m obvi all for adding JSN if we can, but if not or if we go another direction, I really think Mingo and Iosivas give us exactly what we need.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

03 Apr 2023 23:50

I just want to state strongly how absolutely awesome a WR corps consisting of the best 6/7 of these players would be through Love’s first three years as a starter and how absolutely affordable and attainable this outcome is:

Christian Watson, 6’4” 208, 4.36
Romeo Doubs, 6’2” 204, ~4.5
Jonathan Mingo, 6’2” 220, 4.46
Corey Davis, 6’3” 209, ~4.5
Andrei Iosivas, 6’3” 205, 4.43
Samori Toure, 6’1” 191, 4.48
Bo Melton, 5’11” 190, 4.34

Some dog mentality in nearly every single one of them, too. This group would be the best blocking receiver group, among the biggest, among the fastest (or 'least slow'), and need lots of coaching but have so much room to grow together. Football personalities are mostly outstanding.

I’m obvi all for adding JSN if we can, but if not or if we go another direction, I really think Mingo and Iosivas give us exactly what we need.

Not a Mingo fan.

I think JSN or Mayer should be the option to help Love as much as possible.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

03 Apr 2023 23:50

I just want to state strongly how absolutely awesome a WR corps consisting of the best 6/7 of these players would be through Love’s first three years as a starter and how absolutely affordable and attainable this outcome is:

Christian Watson, 6’4” 208, 4.36
Romeo Doubs, 6’2” 204, ~4.5
Jonathan Mingo, 6’2” 220, 4.46
Corey Davis, 6’3” 209, ~4.5
Andrei Iosivas, 6’3” 205, 4.43
Samori Toure, 6’1” 191, 4.48
Bo Melton, 5’11” 190, 4.34

Some dog mentality in nearly every single one of them, too. This group would be the best blocking receiver group, among the biggest, among the fastest (or 'least slow'), and need lots of coaching but have so much room to grow together. Football personalities are mostly outstanding.

I’m obvi all for adding JSN if we can, but if not or if we go another direction, I really think Mingo and Iosivas give us exactly what we need.

There is not one proven WR on that entire list. All thoughts of it being absolutely awesome are optimistic projection.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

04 Apr 2023 07:00

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

03 Apr 2023 23:50

I just want to state strongly how absolutely awesome a WR corps consisting of the best 6/7 of these players would be through Love’s first three years as a starter and how absolutely affordable and attainable this outcome is:

Christian Watson, 6’4” 208, 4.36
Romeo Doubs, 6’2” 204, ~4.5
Jonathan Mingo, 6’2” 220, 4.46
Corey Davis, 6’3” 209, ~4.5
Andrei Iosivas, 6’3” 205, 4.43
Samori Toure, 6’1” 191, 4.48
Bo Melton, 5’11” 190, 4.34

Some dog mentality in nearly every single one of them, too. This group would be the best blocking receiver group, among the biggest, among the fastest (or 'least slow'), and need lots of coaching but have so much room to grow together. Football personalities are mostly outstanding.

I’m obvi all for adding JSN if we can, but if not or if we go another direction, I really think Mingo and Iosivas give us exactly what we need.

There is not one proven WR on that entire list. All thoughts of it being absolutely awesome are optimistic projection.

The Packers need to hit on 1 more WR in this draft. I think they will. But I think that a starting TE is a bigger need.

Really??? What do you expect Watson to do, be in the NFL HOF before you call him a proven WR? In 4 consecutive games last season he had 8 TD's and 359 yards. On 15 receptions and 2 rushing attempts.

But I think the focus on WR's is misplaced. The Packers need a TE#1 a lot more than a WR#4

Yeah, look; to each their own, right?

I made a thread about my draft thoughts.

Last year, I was convinced that Christian Watson would be That Dude and wanted him badly.

Last year, I thought Bo Melton would be a great slot/returner option for us and wanted him on Day Three.

This year, I am convinced that Jonathan Mingo and Andrei Iosivas are incredibly high-floor prospects who fit exactly what we're trying to do on offense. I also think that with the proper development, they have high ceilings.

Now, I totally missed out on Romeo Doubs for some reason; just didn't look at him much last year.

But my point is that according to my own draft thoughts last year and this year, and according to the limited early evidence on Watson and Doubs, and according to the reports that we're probably getting Davis in the Rodgers trade whether I like his contract situation or not... I put together a group of high-traits, high-ceiling, high-floor WRs with great football character and dog mentalities and bet that 3-4 of them will turn into something real and worthwhile and develop a bond with our new QB as they grow together.

I don't know why it keeps coming up that when I state a thing that cannot be proven (at the present time, at least), it is an opinion I hold. And in this case, it's an opinion I hold specifically placed in a thread I made as a place to share my opinions on things.

If you disagree, you're welcome to share a different opinion. But lately, it seems like people think that a clever or useful retort to the things I say is just Correct, it is. Feel free to actually counter it if you want to have a useful conversation. But simply pointing out that my opinion is just my opinion is really self-evident.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

04 Apr 2023 07:29

But I think the focus on WR's is misplaced. The Packers need a TE#1 a lot more than a WR#4

Part of the reason I am highlighting Mingo and Iosivas is that they are likely to be available outside the top 50. I'd say 3rd-5th round but Mingo is catching fire in draftnik internet and podcast circles so he might slip into the second round, even.

But yeah, We need multiple TEs. That's why I love Darnell Washington and Dean Kuntz and am into one of the safer guys like LaPorta and Schoomaker and want Jeremy Ruckert in the Rodgers trade. So the post highlighting WRs I want and like isn't to draw focus away from TEs but more so to think about what we can do at WR if we don't use our top picks on the position; maybe to focus on TE. Or EDGE. Or Safety (though these draft safeties are meh)

Doesn’t matter if the Packers get a WR or a TE. They need to get someone who can win quickly and underneath to get first downs consistently. Watson looks good but he’s a big receiver whose game seems to be big plays. We need someone to go to on 3rd and mediums to pickup a first down. I don’t care if that’s a WR or a TE but there needs to be an option.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

04 Apr 2023 12:03

Doesn’t matter if the Packers get a WR or a TE. They need to get someone who can win quickly and underneath to get first downs consistently. Watson looks good but he’s a big receiver whose game seems to be big plays. We need someone to go to on 3rd and mediums to pickup a first down. I don’t care if that’s a WR or a TE but there needs to be an option.

I agree with this sentiment, but I do wonder when I hear it brought up: why isn't Doubs that guy? He seems to have quick feet and a decent release package to work with, thus far. And likely to continue to refine.

And yes, there are some TEs like LaPorta and Schoonmaker who seem to fit that bill quite well likely in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th rounds.

Also one of the reasons I like Mingo so much is his YAC ability which is very useful on medium-length plays. He was 11th in college football on YAC on screen plays according to PFF

Very annoying how many guys I really liked for Day 3 are turning up as "late risers"

I think 5 of these 10 were in posts or mocks I made pre-combine, and another 2 (YaYa and Zavala, who was not at the combine) since then.

I took a peek at Zavala because he was frequently one of the top options available when drafting in Round 5 on the PFF Sim before they paywalled it. Heh...

Labrev wrote: ↑

04 Apr 2023 12:46

I took a peek at Zavala because he was frequently one of the top options available when drafting in Round 5 on the PFF Sim before they paywalled it. Heh...

5th round is a pipe dream.

Multiple draftnik types predicted he would be either the first or second guy drafted who didn't go to the combine. Scouts were baffled by his lack of invite. I'd be shocked if he makes it out of Day 2.

But he's the best combination of Packers' athleticism, bigger size Gutey seems to be looking for, and good film (Sidney Sow has the first two but very much not the last)

I want Zavala in the 3rd if he's there, Gaines in the 5th if he's there, or Sow in the 7th if he's there (we don't have a 6th)

Also a big fan of Ricky Stromburg whose Pro Day testing provided us with the agility drill confirmation that he's Packer OL, but he may be a C-only, while the others are Gs who may be able to play C.

And one final thought on the "underneath receiver" kind of thing...

... I think we all agree that JSN is just what the doctor ordered. The reason I am turning my focus away is not because he isn't the likely best receiver in this draft, most ready-to-play in the draft, and likely the first-picked WR in the draft... but because I no longer think he will be available at 15 or even 13 after the changes in free agency.

I could see him at 8, 11, 12, or 14.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

04 Apr 2023 13:22

And one final thought on the "underneath receiver" kind of thing...

Yeah I love Melton.

Higher on him than Toure, but I have nothing to back that up aside from my pre-draft priors on him. And everyone gives me flack for my faith in long shots and after betting big on Sammy Watkins last year, I’m feeling humbled about boisterous belief in guys with little evidence

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

04 Apr 2023 14:07

Sammy Watkins

There were more than a couple of positive reports on Sammy's mental health and physical health and connection with AR + MLF
Didn't work out, that's the NFL. Can't let it stop ya. Just find the next one.

BSA wrote: ↑

04 Apr 2023 14:11

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

04 Apr 2023 14:07

Sammy Watkins

Just find the next one.

Oh I have

Spoiler

It’s Jarvis Landry

I think my honest to goodness top 5 WRs in this class are

1. JSN
2. Quentin Johnson
3. Jonathan Mingo
4. Cedric Tillman
5. Zay Flowers

I'm totally serious.

(only the first two would have "first round" grades)

Jsn
Johnson
Hyatt

Tape they are clear top 3 for me.

Mingo feels like this year's mims for packers fans. Hate receivers who struggle to separate at college and have too many difficult catches.

bud fox wrote: ↑

08 Apr 2023 05:46

Jsn
Johnson
Hyatt

Tape they are clear top 3 for me.

Mingo feels like this year's mims for packers fans. Hate receivers who struggle to separate at college and have too many difficult catches.

I think you’re thinking of the other Packers fan favorite Rice. Mingo has his own problems (concentration drops, limited production), but can’t separate and too many contested catches aren’t them.

I like Mingo for what he can be at the next level (projection), how well he fits this offense specifically, and how irreplaceable his skill set is in this draft class. If you miss on Mingo, there’s no other 220 pound 4.46 player who can line up in the slot, backfield, TE, or out wide to select.

If you miss out on Hyatt there are literally three other guys who have shoe deep speed and catch point. Trey Palmer. Marvin Mims. Tyler Scott. Hyatt is a product of Tennessee’s offense. GPS on field in game timing showed that Mingo is actually faster (using an average of their 5 fastest recorded times).

Hyatt is the most overrated player in this class by a mile. He’s a deep threat only, no experience beating press coverage, needs to be schemed, is thin/weak. I just don’t understand why people are so convinced he’s special when both the 40 times and the GPS tracking show that his speed is completely run-of-the-mill fast guy, not rare or elite. And when his speed is his only major selling point.

He’s Tyquan Thornton but thinner. He’s Mecole Hardman but thinner. He’s Will Fuller but thinner.

These guys have a role for sure. They’re useful. But they’re not special or elite.

I'm a HUGE "traits" guy, so I need this as much as anyone here, but it's worth taking a look at how the league's best WRs compare to their peers athletically.

I've listed the "mockdraftable" average for different traits and looked at how it compares to the top wideouts. I'm not sure if these means are of all drafted players or all combine players or what. Someone else may know. I think it's drafted.

Also, a note: the flying 20 average is flawed. It's a derived number subtracting the 40-times from the 20-yard split. But mockdraftable's database has over 900 data points for 40-times and less than 200 data points for 20 times. So I'm subtracting an average from an average with two very different data sets. But it still seemed worth listing as a broad reference.

Anyway...

(gray is Pro Day)