Packers Huddle

I'll say this, Rodgers looking like his old self makes the idea of Jones departing a bit easier to swallow. We have not been running a lot over the past few weeks but the pass is just humming along so well that you can't even argue with it.

There may come games where we will need to lean back on the run a bit more but we don't need to pay a premium for that.

It just sucks that Dillon got sick when he did!! I just hope it's not going to be the kind with long-term complications.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 21:39

APB wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 09:21

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 09:13

I dunno, you could play that game with any contract. Technically they're all related, but there's no reason that Alexander and Jones should be matched. Moreso I would do that within position groups.

They're matched because we're talking top echelon contracts. You can only afford so many of them regardless of positional grouping. Further, those other positional groups will suffer - as will the quality of those backups within the same position groups - if you dole out too many top tier contracts. It's the nature of salary cap economics.

lucki

LET THEM SUFFER, you want to dump a third of our offensive production to keep what A CB, a G a C ??

one of the first things thompson did was dump OL so he could increase offensive impact positions, drafted Jennings, and traded for Grant

a team can get by skimping on every position. except the ones that score points

It would make no sense to keep a RB and destroy the Oline - No RB nor QB can play up to their talent with a bad Oline. Luckily, we don't need to do that.

What makes keeping Jones even theoretically possible is that Gutey has found cheap or moderately -priced talent at most OL positions, TE and WRs other than Adams. Paying 2 skill position players + the QB is plausible when you're cheap elsewhere.

I think we can afford to keep Jones, but with the new agents, Jones may choose not to sign any extension. It's possible they try to really max the cash in FA, and unless we tag him, not much the team can do about that.

----

As I recall, TT had to dump some good OL in 2005, since the team was in serious cap trouble when he took over. Ended up with a HORRENDOUS year 1 line with the worst OT I've ever seen, Will Whitticker, starting... Favre threw career high 29 INTs under pressure. TT then proceeded to do some legendary -level mid-round OL drafting, and ended up with good skill players AND Oline.

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 21:39

APB wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 09:21

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 09:13

I dunno, you could play that game with any contract. Technically they're all related, but there's no reason that Alexander and Jones should be matched. Moreso I would do that within position groups.

They're matched because we're talking top echelon contracts. You can only afford so many of them regardless of positional grouping. Further, those other positional groups will suffer - as will the quality of those backups within the same position groups - if you dole out too many top tier contracts. It's the nature of salary cap economics.

LET THEM SUFFER, you want to dump a third of our offensive production to keep what A CB, a G a C ??

one of the first things thompson did was dump OL so he could increase offensive impact positions, drafted Jennings, and traded for Grant

a team can get by skimping on every position. except the ones that score points

Says the guy who can't get through the day without complaining about lack of WR depth, lack of ILB talent, etc, etc, etc...

APB wrote: ↑

19 Dec 2020 05:58

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 21:39

APB wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 09:21

They're matched because we're talking top echelon contracts. You can only afford so many of them regardless of positional grouping. Further, those other positional groups will suffer - as will the quality of those backups within the same position groups - if you dole out too many top tier contracts. It's the nature of salary cap economics.

LET THEM SUFFER, you want to dump a third of our offensive production to keep what A CB, a G a C ??

one of the first things thompson did was dump OL so he could increase offensive impact positions, drafted Jennings, and traded for Grant

a team can get by skimping on every position. except the ones that score points

Says the guy who can't get through the day without complaining about lack of WR depth, lack of ILB talent, etc, etc, etc...

Drafting Jennings and trading for Grant have nothing to do with dumping two high priced guards because rookies cost nothing in the big scheme. You constantly need the cheap contract performers to allow you to pay for some of the top deals. The trick is to grab the cheap guys, with poor draft capital, who's play will deserve second contracts.

Cdragon wrote: ↑

19 Dec 2020 07:16

APB wrote: ↑

19 Dec 2020 05:58

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 21:39

LET THEM SUFFER, you want to dump a third of our offensive production to keep what A CB, a G a C ??

one of the first things thompson did was dump OL so he could increase offensive impact positions, drafted Jennings, and traded for Grant

a team can get by skimping on every position. except the ones that score points

Says the guy who can't get through the day without complaining about lack of WR depth, lack of ILB talent, etc, etc, etc...

Drafting Jennings and trading for Grant have nothing to do with dumping two high priced guards because rookies cost nothing in the big scheme. You constantly need the cheap contract performers to allow you to pay for some of the top deals. The trick is to grab the cheap guys, with poor draft capital, who's play will deserve second contracts.

true, but it showed where Thompson put his priority's, he needed cap savings, so he dumped the G's, used a draft pick to trade for Grant, and used his high picks on a lber and and a ready to play WR with GJ.
yes ya try to go cheap with non impact positions like OL etc. so you can use that savings on positions that can score, what good does it do to have a all pro line if you don't have players that can flip the balance and score points.

Jones is far to valuable and proven to let walk out the door unless his contract demands are outragious, and I doubt they will be.


APB: your rearanging the goal post my desire to draft a WR or Lber who would play for relative peanuts is what could help us pay for Jones.

we signed the FA Smiths because we needed to instantly increase pass rush, and the draft would have taken to much time to groom up (Gary is a great example of that) so to think you can draft another Jones type RB that can replace his production next year is really a gamble, Rodgers window is closing, now is the time to to keep the players that can help him the most.

If your mind is always on tomorrow, you'll never finish what you have to do today

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 21:11

BF004 wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 19:19

I want Jones back.

However, who was the last RB to sign a big contract where the team hasn’t regretted the signing?


I feel like this trend became the norm with former MVP Shaun Alexander when he got his big deal.


But like honestly, what RB actually ended up earning their 2nd contract when given top 5 RB money?

Alexander was a high mileage RB, don't u see the difference.
.
teams resign RB's just like they do WR, it's because of the production, that most are worn out when it happens is what separates them from Jones.

and you've all portrayed Jones to be them and he's actually not.

hey your minds are made up, but I think your wrong.

wasn't responding to anyone in particular, simply trying to make a better case to resign Jones.

we are going to lose players, but I'am not ready to give up a 1/3rd of offensive production to keep a center, or anyone short of the players we've already resigned (Bak Adams, Clark

I showed him compared to these other RB's on the market this year, and how he is valued as high or higher then they are, and I wanted to again slam the point home t5hat letting Jones walk is allowing a 1/4 or more of our offensive production to leave, sure some of it can be replaced, but how much, I don't want to give that up in Rodgers last couple seasons

if we can sign Jones to comparable deals imo that would be a wise investment.

The Kamara and Cook deals as reported average $15 million and $12.5 million, but that’s only in the NFL-contract speak of new money. The numbers that matter are these: Kamara is fully guaranteed $22.8 million, and over the first three years, including this season, averages about $9.8 million. Cook is fully guaranteed $26 million, and the first three years average $9.1 million.

You must have missed the part where I said I want Jones back. It’s in my post, go look.

God knows why you would respond “ hey your minds are made up, but I think your wrong.”

How hard is it to simply to respond to what people actually say and not what you think they are saying?



I then simply asked a question. Has there been a single RB since, I was just throwing out arbitrary time in my mind, Shaun Alexander big contract, who has signed a top 5 contract and it could be considered a good signing?

I have repeatedly said I like the Cook contract for us, ideally a hair less, but now it is a year removed.

But it would completely depend on what Jones wants. If he wants Kamara type money, then I would probably be in favor or saying goodbye. But for the love of all that is holy, please don’t respond with gibberish about me or us not wanting him and having no problem signing a CB (no one is advocating resigning King).

Labrev wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 22:07

I'll say this, Rodgers looking like his old self makes the idea of Jones departing a bit easier to swallow. We have not been running a lot over the past few weeks but the pass is just humming along so well that you can't even argue with it.

There may come games where we will need to lean back on the run a bit more but we don't need to pay a premium for that.

It just sucks that Dillon got sick when he did!! I just hope it's not going to be the kind with long-term complications.

Rodgers has looked fantastic this year, no doubt about it, but how much of that success comes with Jones on the field? Without looking at numbers, or times Rodgers was set up with play action - with the defense biting on the potential handoff to Jones, receptions to Jones. I will say, since Lazard has returned to the lineup, Jones kinda has taken a backseat in the passing game.

Rodgers did just turn 37, do we still see this level of play, say, in the next couple of years? Odds are likely against him.

I still think LaFleur gets away from the running game at times, but not near as much as McCarthy did.

I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be uncomfortable seeing Jones walk. If we can strike a deal, I say we do it. We're on the backend here with Rodgers and we need to go all in, even if that sets us back a couple of years.

BF004 wrote: ↑

19 Dec 2020 08:58

Yoop wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 21:11

BF004 wrote: ↑

18 Dec 2020 19:19

I want Jones back.

However, who was the last RB to sign a big contract where the team hasn’t regretted the signing?


I feel like this trend became the norm with former MVP Shaun Alexander when he got his big deal.


But like honestly, what RB actually ended up earning their 2nd contract when given top 5 RB money?

Alexander was a high mileage RB, don't u see the difference.
.
teams resign RB's just like they do WR, it's because of the production, that most are worn out when it happens is what separates them from Jones.

and you've all portrayed Jones to be them and he's actually not.

hey your minds are made up, but I think your wrong.

wasn't responding to anyone in particular, simply trying to make a better case to resign Jones.

we are going to lose players, but I'am not ready to give up a 1/3rd of offensive production to keep a center, or anyone short of the players we've already resigned (Bak Adams, Clark

I showed him compared to these other RB's on the market this year, and how he is valued as high or higher then they are, and I wanted to again slam the point home t5hat letting Jones walk is allowing a 1/4 or more of our offensive production to leave, sure some of it can be replaced, but how much, I don't want to give that up in Rodgers last couple seasons

if we can sign Jones to comparable deals imo that would be a wise investment.

The Kamara and Cook deals as reported average $15 million and $12.5 million, but that’s only in the NFL-contract speak of new money. The numbers that matter are these: Kamara is fully guaranteed $22.8 million, and over the first three years, including this season, averages about $9.8 million. Cook is fully guaranteed $26 million, and the first three years average $9.1 million.

You must have missed the part where I said I want Jones back. It’s in my post, go look.

God knows why you would respond “ hey your minds are made up, but I think your wrong.”

How hard is it to simply to respond to what people actually say and not what you think they are saying?



I then simply asked a question. Has there been a single RB since, I was just throwing out arbitrary time in my mind, Shaun Alexander big contract, who has signed a top 5 contract and it could be considered a good signing?

I have repeatedly said I like the Cook contract for us, ideally a hair less, but now it is a year removed.

But it would completely depend on what Jones wants. If he wants Kamara type money, then I would probably be in favor or saying goodbye. But for the love of all that is holy, please don’t respond with gibberish about me or us not wanting him and having no problem signing a CB (no one is advocating resigning King).

everyone here says they want Jones back, it's a PC world, then you come right back with when was the last time a second contract has played up to that contract, as though other positions do so regularly, which is more likely about 50%, then you use Alexander, a RB that without even checking probably had 300 more run touches in his first 4 years, and before you tell me to go look it up as though I'am some 35 year old college grad that makes his living on a computer, the point is Jones doesn't have that kind of wear and tear and we all know that.

what I hear is people making excuses not to resign Jones, saying you want to keep him has to come with reasons why, or your just playing PC smart and refusing to think outside the box.

Gibberish, nice shot.

Yes, pure repetitive gibberish.

Again. The question was which RB since Alexander (used as a solely for the purpose signifying a time) has earned a top 5 contract?

I don’t know why you keep talking about Alexander, I mean is that question really that hard to understand? There have probably been 20 contracts since then that would meet that criteria.

And I don’t know the answer, don’t assume what I’m meaning, haven’t been on my desktop to look it up, hoping someone would have done that for me by now. I can’t think of any off my head, but they may be there.


And I can give you many top 5 contracts that have been worth it at all kinds of positions. Many on our own current team. Aaron, Bak, Adams, ZaDarius, Linsley. Not sure if any of them were really ever top 5 other than Aaron or Bak, but close.


But either way, get the damn idea out of your head that I don’t want to resign him. Don’t care what perception you think you have, it is wrong. I want to resign him, clear as day. And if that makes me PC for saying maybe not if he wants ridiculous money, then sure, I can be PC in your eyes if that makes you feel better.

I agree with yoop.

I think we need to sign Aaron Jones no matter what it takes. We can't live for tomorrow or we will never survive today. Rodgers won't be here forever and we need to keep the team together.

Whatever Jones wants....make it happen. He must be a Packer. You can't take away 1/3 of the offensive production so we have good guards. We need scorers.

6 NFL RBs who proved second contracts can be worthwhile investments.

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2019/0 ... ones-drew/

LeSean McCoy

McCoy was signed to a five-year, $45 million extension that season. In 2019 cap dollars, the deal equates to over $14 million a year. Over the first three years of that extension, McCoy played in 44 of 48 possible contests, and averaged over 1,600 yards from scrimmage and seven touchdowns a season. His peak season was the second year of the deal, 2013, when he led the NFL in rushing attempts, rushing yards, yards from scrimmage and total touches.

Frank Gore

Most didn’t think Gore would see a second contract, much less the sixth he’s on currently. After blowing up his ACLs in college, during a time where recovery was anything but a sure thing, Gore defied the odds and is now the fourth leading rusher in NFL history with 14,748 yards and needs just over 500 more to surpass Barry Sanders.

In 2007 Gore signed a four-year, $28.012 million extension ($12 million annually in 2019 cap dollars) and then signed a third deal in 2011, three years, $19.2 million ($9.4 million today).

Matt Forte

After his first Pro Bowl appearance in 2011, Forte signed for four years, $30.4 million. That average salary would equate to an $11.9 million average in today’s game.

He went on to make another Pro Bowl, in 2013, played in 47 of the next 48 games and rushed 1,157 yards over the next three seasons. Oh, he also contributed over 220 receptions in that span and totaled 28 touchdowns from 2012 through 2014.

Adrian Peterson

Peterson is probably the poster boy for this exercise. After inking an incredible six-year, $84 million second contract in 2011, an average value of $14 million back then, he renegotiated the heftier back end of that deal to still come out at $14 million on average in 2015.

Following the first extension, all he did was rush for an average of 1,444 yards over the next three seasons, including the second-best total in NFL history, 2,097 yards in 2012. His ACL injury wiped out the 2014 season and led to the restructure, which might serve as a warning, right?

March on Lynch

Seattle acquired Lynch on his rookie deal from Buffalo and he made his second Pro Bowl in his first full season with the Seahawks in 2011. They rewarded him with a new deal of four years for $30 million. That $7.5 million average in 2012 equates to $11.7 million a season in today’s dollars.

Lynch promptly led the league in rushing in 2012 with 1,590 yards, and then led the league in rushing touchdowns with 12 in 2013, and 13 in 2014. Along the way, Seattle won a Super Bowl and would’ve won a second if they had just given him one more carry.

M. Jones Drew

Jones-Drew was a touchdown-scoring machine on his rookie deal in Florida, with 34 in his first three seasons. That earned him a four-year, $35.5 million deal in 2009, worth $13.6 million in 2019 dollars.

Jones proceeded to make the Pro Bowl each of the next three years, including being an All-Pro in 2011 when he led the NFL in rushing yards with 1,606.

all huge on 2nd contract deals, all earned every cent they where given.

Thank you, that is what I was legit looking for, just hate researching that kind of stuff on my phone.

I would still be right on that Dalvin Cook deal. I don’t think Jones should be asking for more than that. Like I said earlier, kind of longer we make the deal, even if a total garbage year, the lower we can likely make the 2021 cap hit.

Sounds like both sides want to do this, not really sure where that disconnect is. But I don’t know so won’t guess.

BF004 wrote: ↑

19 Dec 2020 13:19

Thank you, that is what I was legit looking for, just hate researching that kind of stuff on my phone.

I would still be right on that Dalvin Cook deal. I don’t think Jones should be asking for more than that. Like I said earlier, kind of longer we make the deal, even if a total garbage year, the lower we can likely make the 2021 cap hit.

Sounds like both sides want to do this, not really sure where that disconnect is. But I don’t know so won’t guess.

Phone thats beyond anything I'am capable of I tried 5 different places using my PC before I found this, I kept see Exekial Elliot and figured it was just Cowboy stuff, I remembered Lynch, AP and Forte did well, forgot about McCoy who is probably the closest resemblance to Jones in RB style.

I think with his hire of Rosenhause a fair money deal can be worked out, sure add a year, and make it a opt out year, as long as the deal is structured right he wont be a huge cap hit each year, we'll see.

we saw what Jones is capable of in the first 4 games, then it seems as though Lafluer decided to keep that stuff under wraps, and we raqrely see Jones thrown to as often , plus keeping his run touches in check, makes me think Jones could really explode during the post season.

Yeah, just on my phone. Difficult to do a lot of things.

I was thinking of Peterson, couldn’t remember when that contract was signed and how that played out.

Just got the likes of Gurley and Freeman and Alexander and Bell and even Zeke at this point stuck in my head.


I think the likes of CMac and Kamara and Cook have in common is they are all really good receivers. I think Jones is decent, would like to see him more involved in the passing. But also what I was saying before the season, why I would resign him, is because he isn’t just a good RB. Like you Leonard Fournettes of the world.

go pak go wrote: ↑

19 Dec 2020 12:12

I agree with yoop.

I think we need to sign Aaron Jones no matter what it takes. We can't live for tomorrow or we will never survive today. Rodgers won't be here forever and we need to keep the team together.

Whatever Jones wants....make it happen. He must be a Packer. You can't take away 1/3 of the offensive production so we have good guards. We need scorers.

there ya go

NCF wrote: ↑

04 Jan 2021 13:21

That's pretty cool.

But also these types of combo stats get kinda silly.

You take a stat that's difficult to achieve, like 35 TDs in your first 4 years. And then whittle down the already-small number of people on that list by qualifiers that meet your target's accomplishments.

I'm not saying it's not impressive; it is. I just think when you get more than 2 stats deep, it's a little stretchy, that's all.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

04 Jan 2021 13:26

NCF wrote: ↑

04 Jan 2021 13:21

That's pretty cool.

But also these types of combo stats get kinda silly.

You take a stat that's difficult to achieve, like 35 TDs in your first 4 years. And then whittle down the already-small number of people on that list by qualifiers that meet your target's accomplishments.

I'm not saying it's not impressive; it is. I just think when you get more than 2 stats deep, it's a little stretchy, that's all.

I don't fully disagree, but it is taking the two most important volume statistics and adding one efficiency statistic, so not like irrelevant or anything. They go together. The fact that the list is THAT small is impressive in my eyes.

We're gonna need that money for JJ Watt and Brandin Cooks.

GB's best move with Jones IMHO is to let him test free agency but with a fair deal from GB on the table and an option to match should he strike a deal.

A couple years of a Jones-Dillon backfield behind Rodgers just has too much potential to let slip away.