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Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 08 Feb 2021 13:15
by Crazylegs Starks
What's the difference between Brady and guys like Rodgers, Brees, and Peyton Manning? Defense. Brady has consistently had better defenses than his contemporaries.
Just look at the defensive ranking columns:
Patriots:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/
Colts:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/
Saints:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nor/
Packers:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 08 Feb 2021 14:04
by NCF
salmar80 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 09:48
go pak go wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 09:28
I don't hate Tom Brady the person.
I just hate that he has so much success. There are "lot's" of good guys in this universe. I think I am a good guy. So why can't I have a tiny of happiness and have the Packers win ONE of the year that Tom Brady won it?
I don't even mind him winning SBs (OK, maybe a little bit). He is a great QB, and contributed positively to those wins. But I hate that the legend has grown to such absurd levels that ALL the credit is given to him, as if Brady soloed his way into those wins. It's sorta disrespectful to other players on those teams. Brady does not win this most recent one without the D playing lights out.
Brady has also lost 4 AFC Championship Games and 3 Super Bowls. I guess he has a title to match off against every big game loss, but still not sure why he always gets a pass for those 7 losses like they never happened.
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 08 Feb 2021 15:32
by Labrev
One of the issues I have with our defense is how much it has been built around getting EDGE pressure, which is inefficient, whereas interior pressure is a much more efficient way to disrupt the QB because it generally is felt more quickly and it more often forces the QB off his spot. The Bucs were able to bring pressure from a variety of spots, and that led them to set a record of 29 QB pressures.
Keke ascending could help, and I hope like heck that Kamal Martin gets the mental part down (really sucks that he got injured when he did, could have carried that momentum and gotten some game experience under his belt early).
I also feel like we need to start thinking about using Gary as a rush-DT from time to time; he has the size for it and could probably smoke some unathletic IOL on clear pass-downs.
With how quickly QBs get rid of the ball now, you have to -really- tighten up coverage and/or get pressure much faster.
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 08 Feb 2021 16:30
by Yoop
Labrev wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 15:32
One of the issues I have with our defense is how much it has been built around getting EDGE pressure, which is inefficient, whereas interior pressure is a much more efficient way to disrupt the QB because it generally is felt more quickly and it more often forces the QB off his spot. The Bucs were able to bring pressure from a variety of spots, and that led them to set a record of 29 QB pressures.
Keke ascending could help, and I hope like heck that Kamal Martin gets the mental part down (really sucks that he got injured when he did, could have carried that momentum and gotten some game experience under his belt early).
I also feel like we need to start thinking about using Gary as a rush-DT from time to time; he has the size for it and could probably smoke some unathletic IOL on clear pass-downs.
With how quickly QBs get rid of the ball now, you have to -really- tighten up coverage and/or get pressure much faster.
I agree, but the Bucs do it stunting the inside gaps with lbers, and they are unblocked, thats why they get the inside pressure, there DT's clear the lane for the lber, but that is a luxury, if you don't have DT's that can provide the crease then the stunter runs into a wall or a H-Back/RB he can't bull into the QB, It looks easy when it works, problem is it hasn't worked as well this year for us as it did last year.
and Z had about 15 sacks last year, 85 pressures, most from ROLB, so he's pretty quick from the edge to.
I agree though in that I'd love to see more inside pressure, stunts from more then just Z and a couple from the ILB's or a safety once or so a game, heck I'd increase it to about 10 times a game and from more then just the A gaps.
that article I brought about the Bucks defense explains some of this stuff in the DC Barry thread, I think/hope those are schemes/plans Barry has for our defense.
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 08 Feb 2021 17:06
by Pckfn23
Tampa's defenders by Pressures:
Shaquil Barret, OLB in 15 games - 57
Ndamukong Suh, DE in 16 games - 29
William Gholston, DE in 16 games - 29
Jason Pierre-Paul, DE in 16 games - 22
Devin White, ILB in 15 games - 20
Anthony Nelson, OLB in 16 games - 13
Jordan Whitehead, SS in 16 games - 7
Antoine Winfield Jr., FS in 16 games - 6
Vita Vea, NT in 5 games - 5
Lavonte David, ILB in 16 games - 3
Rakeem Nunez-Roches, DT in 16 games - 3
Jeremiah Ledbetter, DT in 3 games - 3
Khalil David, DL in 2 games - 2
Steve McLendon, DT in 9 games - 2
Pat O'Connor, DE in 16 games - 1
96 pressures came from the interior defensive lineman. 23 pressures came from the inside linebackers. Their success with interior pass rushing did not come by their interior defensive lineman simply opening holes for the ILBs to blitz through.
Their success Tampa is their aggressiveness, with both blitzes and their 1 gap penetrating style of defense.
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 08 Feb 2021 18:39
by Yoop
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 17:06
Tampa's defenders by Pressures:
Shaquil Barret, OLB in 15 games - 57
Ndamukong Suh, DE in 16 games - 29
William Gholston, DE in 16 games - 29
Jason Pierre-Paul, DE in 16 games - 22
Devin White, ILB in 15 games - 20
Anthony Nelson, OLB in 16 games - 13
Jordan Whitehead, SS in 16 games - 7
Antoine Winfield Jr., FS in 16 games - 6
Vita Vea, NT in 5 games - 5
Lavonte David, ILB in 16 games - 3
Rakeem Nunez-Roches, DT in 16 games - 3
Jeremiah Ledbetter, DT in 3 games - 3
Khalil David, DL in 2 games - 2
Steve McLendon, DT in 9 games - 2
Pat O'Connor, DE in 16 games - 1
96 pressures came from the interior defensive lineman. 23 pressures came from the inside linebackers. Their success with interior pass rushing did not come by their interior defensive lineman simply opening holes for the ILBs to blitz through.
Their success Tampa is their aggressiveness, with both blitzes and their 1 gap penetrating style of defense.
your right, still if ya want to single gap in a 20 front then your lbers have to be very good against the run, and still be very good in coverage, or you'll have to use a safety.
and you have to have DT's that actually win there 1 on 1, we have Clark, just saying right now we don't have the talent on defense at these positions.
we all want pass rush across the line, other then Clark we had limited success, so unless we get another brute like Clark then we'll have to concentrate on opening rushing lanes for Z, Gary, barnes, Martin etc up the middle, I'am sure Barry will tailor his schemes to our players.
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 08 Feb 2021 18:43
by Drj820
Not sure the Packers have ever had a linebacker room with half as much talent as the Bucs do. What a roster. Tom knew what he was doing when he chose Tampa.
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 08 Feb 2021 19:00
by Yoop
Drj820 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 18:43
Not sure the Packers have ever had a linebacker room with half as much talent as the Bucs do. What a roster. Tom knew what he was doing when he chose Tampa.
right, thats some very good talent and excellent coaching, but we beat them, we left 14 points laying on the grass, and thats with Rodgers pressured on 29 drop backs, and a snub from the refs,thats amazing, now if we can just tweak up this defense a little, and keep the offense chugging I like our chances against anyone again next year.
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 08 Feb 2021 21:01
by Drj820
Yoop wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 19:00
Drj820 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 18:43
Not sure the Packers have ever had a linebacker room with half as much talent as the Bucs do. What a roster. Tom knew what he was doing when he chose Tampa.
right, thats some very good talent and excellent coaching, but we beat them, we left 14 points laying on the grass, and thats with Rodgers pressured on 29 drop backs, and a snub from the refs,thats amazing, now if we can just tweak up this defense a little, and keep the offense chugging I like our chances against anyone again next year.
Cool
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 08 Feb 2021 21:13
by Labrev
TT had the right idea with his general focus on defense in the draft... just didn't make the right picks for it.
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 08 Feb 2021 23:39
by texas
TheGreenMan wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 09:51
texas wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 00:15
Total scam. Their whole so-called "championship" is a scam built on bad officiating.
But it just goes to show- you need defenders who are willing to mug the pass-catchers and then dare the refs to call anything in the playoffs.
So, Kevin King.
I remarked at the end of the 1st half of the SB that I wish Kevin King would have tackled Scotty Miller while the ball was in the air, like KC did to Mike Evans
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 08 Feb 2021 23:44
by texas
salmar80 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 09:48
go pak go wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 09:28
I don't hate Tom Brady the person.
I just hate that he has so much success. There are "lot's" of good guys in this universe. I think I am a good guy. So why can't I have a tiny of happiness and have the Packers win ONE of the year that Tom Brady won it?
I don't even mind him winning SBs (OK, maybe a little bit). He is a great QB, and contributed positively to those wins. But I hate that the legend has grown to such absurd levels that ALL the credit is given to him, as if Brady soloed his way into those wins. It's sorta disrespectful to other players on those teams. Brady does not win this most recent one without the D playing lights out.
I like Brady. But this gripe is true. For whatever reason, the AFC always only ever had 3 good teams any year, and the Patriots always seemed to match up with #4 in the divisional round, against a backup QB, while the opponents all had the flu.
They had a ton of good luck. They're also the best, but they're not so much better than the rest by the margin that the scoreboard indicates. I remember last year we had a discussion as to who was the top NFC franchise of the past decade, and it was probably us. And we know how much pain we have had as fans. Tom Brady is not 4 Super Bowls better than the 2010s Packers.
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 08 Feb 2021 23:49
by Drj820
Chiefs and Packers played an eerily similar game against the bucs. Both employed schemes filled with dumba**ery.
Poor clock management before half on the defensive side of the ball? Check
Awful defense before the half? Check
Not giving abused tackles much help throughout the game? Check
Not running the ball to keep the pass rush honest? Check
Trying to go deep on many pass routes and being impatient? Check
Offense that usually score touchdowns settling for FGs? Check
The list goes on and on.
We saw two offenses who are used to scoring basically at will, finally have to work for their points, and be patient...and they proved they couldnt do it when it wasnt easy. Folded like lawn chairs up against a little adversity. Sad!
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 09 Feb 2021 00:18
by Pugger
Labrev wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 21:13
TT had the right idea with his general focus on defense in the draft... just didn't make the right picks for it.
He had some good defensive picks (Raji, Clark and Clay, for example) but has struck out on others like Ha Ha, Randall and Rollins.
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 09 Feb 2021 07:35
by APB
I wish I'd have heard this version as it was happening...lol
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 09 Feb 2021 07:56
by Yoop
Drj820 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 23:49
Chiefs and Packers played an eerily similar game against the bucs. Both employed schemes filled with dumba**ery.
Poor clock management before half on the defensive side of the ball? Check
Awful defense before the half? Check
Not giving abused tackles much help throughout the game? Check
Not running the ball to keep the pass rush honest? Check
Trying to go deep on many pass routes and being impatient? Check
Offense that usually score touchdowns settling for FGs? Check
The list goes on and on.
We saw two offenses who are used to scoring basically at will, finally have to work for their points, and be patient...and they proved they couldnt do it when it wasnt easy. Folded like lawn chairs up against a little adversity. Sad!
even with all that, we simply had to make a couple catches we didn't and we would have won, basically we over came everything you listed, but lost because we dropped a couple passes.
the streaker was a hoot
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 09 Feb 2021 09:38
by Cdragon
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2021 17:06
Tampa's defenders by Pressures:
Shaquil Barret, OLB in 15 games - 57
Ndamukong Suh, DE in 16 games - 29
William Gholston, DE in 16 games - 29
Jason Pierre-Paul, DE in 16 games - 22
Devin White, ILB in 15 games - 20
Anthony Nelson, OLB in 16 games - 13
Jordan Whitehead, SS in 16 games - 7
Antoine Winfield Jr., FS in 16 games - 6
Vita Vea, NT in 5 games - 5
Lavonte David, ILB in 16 games - 3
Rakeem Nunez-Roches, DT in 16 games - 3
Jeremiah Ledbetter, DT in 3 games - 3
Khalil David, DL in 2 games - 2
Steve McLendon, DT in 9 games - 2
Pat O'Connor, DE in 16 games - 1
96 pressures came from the interior defensive lineman. 23 pressures came from the inside linebackers. Their success with interior pass rushing did not come by their interior defensive lineman simply opening holes for the ILBs to blitz through.
Their success Tampa is their aggressiveness, with both blitzes and their 1 gap penetrating style of defense.
A willingness to blitz or show it and drop out gives the DL an edge. OL has to account for the blitz and any help that could come from a double team is delayed by somebody waiting for the blitzer, giving the DL one on ones. Even better if the protection call is wrong.
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 09 Feb 2021 10:18
by Raptorman
I've tried to bring that up many times but I keep being told it's the QB that helps the defense, not the other way around. Yeah right. Here's a little something for you. QB wins vs average points given up by the defense in those wins. Each of these QB's has at least 4 seasons in the NFL, one of them is Brady.
- image.png (4.2 KiB) Viewed 217 times
Bridgewater
Darnold
Keenum
Bradford
Brady
Stafford
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 09 Feb 2021 10:48
by APB
Raptorman wrote: ↑09 Feb 2021 10:18
Each of these QB's has at least 4 seasons in the NFL, one of them is Brady.
Just a quick user note: if you're gonna do one of those "one of them is" type posts, I think the forum would appreciate it if you would provide the answer either directly or through use of this handy little forum tool:
...because I'm not gonna bother trying to look up the data thus making your point basically irrelevant.
...and it's annoying.
Re: Superbowl LV Game Day Thread
Posted: 09 Feb 2021 11:35
by Raptorman
APB wrote: ↑09 Feb 2021 10:48
Raptorman wrote: ↑09 Feb 2021 10:18
Each of these QB's has at least 4 seasons in the NFL, one of them is Brady.
Just a quick user note: if you're gonna do one of those "one of them is" type posts, I think the forum would appreciate it if you would provide the answer either directly or through use of this handy little forum tool:
...because I'm not gonna bother trying to look up the data thus making your point basically irrelevant.
...and it's annoying.
I have to learn to use that. I am going to post the names. I just wanted to let it sink if first.
