Packers Huddle

All 3? There are about 10 game tapes, not highlights, in Salmar's resource. He doesn't play much linebacker in any of them. Even in your highlight reel he only plays linebacker about 3 times.

He is going to be able to play everything in the 2nd level except outside corner and full time Buck linebacker. He is a great tool, but I wouldn't call him a true linebacker for a 3-4. Would be great as a Will in a 4-3.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020 10:26

All 3? There are about 10 game tapes, not highlights, in Salmar's resource. He doesn't play much linebacker in any of them. Even in your highlight reel he only plays linebacker about 3 times.

He is going to be able to play everything in the 2nd level except outside corner and full time Buck linebacker. He is a great tool, but I wouldn't call him a true linebacker for a 3-4. Would be great as a Will in a 4-3.

only 3 of Simmons that I saw from SAl, again in the highlight vid I brought he's playing a lot of box, so it's hard to say, sure you can say he's playing safety, but then it's a 3 safety scheme and he's matched up on the TE side which is often who the lber will cover.

go watch Queen, he doesn't take on lead blockers either, yet he's a tackle machine, very aggressive, the goal should always be to avoid the blocker and simply make the play, Simmons is a 3dn lber, he will never come off the field, Buck lber is in this era a 2 downer.

seriously now if Simmons, Queen or Murray where available would you be harping this Buck lber stuff

He's a safety, slot corner, and edge defender in all but 4 plays on that highlight. And that's what we see when watch the actual game tapes.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020 13:27

He's a safety, slot corner, and edge defender in all but 4 plays on that highlight. And that's what we see when watch the actual game tapes.

I can't think of a safety or a slot corner with Simmons' body type in the NFL. He's definitely a hybrid, but I think he can be an extremely effective hybrid in the right scheme.

Would you pass on Simmons for a purer ILB?

Would definitely take him over Queen or Murray, both of whom are athletic ILBs. Neither really wowed me, but their floor should be solid starter with a ceiling for way better.

BTW, this nitpicking about how many plays Simmons was at what position on what tape is $%@# annoying and distracts from an otherwise fantastic thread. Please stop it.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020 14:02

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020 13:27

He's a safety, slot corner, and edge defender in all but 4 plays on that highlight. And that's what we see when watch the actual game tapes.

I can't think of a safety or a slot corner with Simmons' body type in the NFL. He's definitely a hybrid, but I think he can be an extremely effective hybrid in the right scheme.

Would you pass on Simmons for a purer ILB?

Would definitely take him over Queen or Murray, both of whom are athletic ILBs. Neither really wowed me, but their floor should be solid starter with a ceiling for way better.

BTW, this nitpicking about how many plays Simmons was at what position on what tape is $%@# annoying and distracts from an otherwise fantastic thread. Please stop it.

I apologize, was simply pointing out he wasn't in a normal LB alignment much. I think that does make a difference. I wouldnt pass on him at 30, but you need a plan to implement him into the defense and then we would also need that true ILB person. I don't believe Kirksey is that guy either. I really was not impressed by this in the box tackling. To me, he really did look like a safety in there. If our plan was to cut and paste him into Martinez role that would be a mistake.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020 14:02

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020 13:27

He's a safety, slot corner, and edge defender in all but 4 plays on that highlight. And that's what we see when watch the actual game tapes.

I can't think of a safety or a slot corner with Simmons' body type in the NFL. He's definitely a hybrid, but I think he can be an extremely effective hybrid in the right scheme.

Would you pass on Simmons for a purer ILB?

Would definitely take him over Queen or Murray, both of whom are athletic ILBs. Neither really wowed me, but their floor should be solid starter with a ceiling for way better.

BTW, this nitpicking about how many plays Simmons was at what position on what tape is $%@# annoying and distracts from an otherwise fantastic thread. Please stop it.

sorry, but I just don't get way if he doesn't play more straight up lber, even though he does it well when he does do it, that he wont be excellent at if he's asked to do so more, and he's certainly physically equipped to, what those vids showed me is that he was one of the best players on the field in every game, and was in on almost every play, sure I suppose since he wasn't asked to play MLB every snap he could be called a hybrid, but that doesn't mean he couldn't or wont be a very good 3 DN lber pretty quick at this level.

I havn't seen a draft site or mock draft with Simmons outside the top 5, rare for a player to be taken that high if there will be position transition issues, Simmons is a player I will follow next season, so I'll let that defend my position.

Yoop wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020 16:34

sorry, but I just don't get way if he doesn't play more straight up lber, even though he does it well when he does do it, that he wont be excellent at if he's asked to do so more, and he's certainly physically equipped to

I think when you have a guy that can be this chess piece you are doing him a disservice by forcing him into this defined role (full-time ILB). With all three of these guys you have a have the right plan. Physical teams that are able to get on them with free blockers from every which way are going to show where the weaknesses with these guys lie.

Here's boom boom Baun!

Not a great sign of a ILB class that half of the top four weren't ILBs in college... Any others y'all wanna dissect? If not, I'll do the one cutup per next tier player -thing tomorrow and then move to another position.

Well, Baun didn't even sniff ILB on those tapes. No snaps there.

Certainly athletic, good at taking on and shedding OL, can tackle. Could conceivably blitz well.

Looked mechanical in coverage and didn't get depth on drops. Looked heavy-footed and lost at times like...well...an edge rusher dropping into coverage. No film of him reading plays, taking angles, etc. as an ILB so all that is total projection.

I highly doubt Pettine and his ILBs coach Kirk Olivadotti could somehow make Baun's position switch happen for week 1, even year 1, with the COVID-19 -thing going on. Would be hard in a normal year. It's conceivable Baun could become a good strong side ILB, who takes on and actually beats blocks and allows the other ILB be the tackler. If you want a coverage-oriented do-it-all ILB, Baun's not your guy, at least not early in his NFL career.

NCF wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020 16:42

Yoop wrote: ↑

11 Apr 2020 16:34

sorry, but I just don't get way if he doesn't play more straight up lber, even though he does it well when he does do it, that he wont be excellent at if he's asked to do so more, and he's certainly physically equipped to

I think when you have a guy that can be this chess piece you are doing him a disservice by forcing him into this defined role (full-time ILB). With all three of these guys you have a have the right plan. Physical teams that are able to get on them with free blockers from every which way are going to show where the weaknesses with these guys lie.

sure, I get that, but the point I'am trying to make is that just because he was used often in college to combat a opponents receivers, he still did very well as a down hill lber in run support, this idea that he plays like a safety, even though he's quite a bit bigger then one, I look at as a plus, Simmons is exactly what our defense lacks, this idea that we need a great thumper at MLB so we can stop the run is so AJ Hawkish, that plan didn't work then, and it wont work now, formost, we need to be able to cover the short zones, and not be a liability against the run, I think some are letting how SF ran on us cloud reality a bit, just as big a problem (more) was the guys playing up front, and the single gap penetrating scheme we used.

all 3 of these lbers will be gone anyway, I'd love one, anyone, however I have a feeling that if Queen, Murray, and one of these top tier DT's are all there, Guty will take the DT, hell Ted did a bunch of times, it's valid in the sense of what happened to us against SF.

Here are some assorted LBs. I picked some of NFL.com's and CBS's most highly ranked, but man, the rankings vary a LOT.

What position should we start with tomorrow? TE? DL? CB? OL?

Malik Harrison:



Logan Wilson:



Akeem Davis-Gaither:



Troy Dye:



Willie Gay Jr.:

Davis-Gaither is a guy that I'm not good enough to decide if he can play or not. I think I really like him and I also think its quite possible he will absolutely suck in the NFL. Just not sure.

NCF wrote: ↑

13 Apr 2020 14:08

Davis-Gaither is a guy that I'm not good enough to decide if he can play or not. I think I really like him and I also think its quite possible he will absolutely suck in the NFL. Just not sure.

From the 1 video that Sal posted, he looks really stiff, poor CoD. He also seems to play high a lot.

Malik Harrison has caught my eye in the past.

One of the few guys at LB with ideal size and an elite athletic profile.

Few scouting reports I've seen say he is instinctual and can't cover all that well. So just confused, because if he has instincts, certainly no physical limitation on why he can't cover, despite having some size to him. Or he isn't instinctual. I feel like both can't be correct. Guessing some may think he can't cover just because he is bigger or he actually can't cover and people throw the term instinctual around with no clue what they are talking about.

One thing that stands out to me when watching him is that he loves contact, comes in with leverage, and runs through the tackle. He is always looking to take on blocks on the correct side, working that way if blocked. Isn't taking the easy route that leaves others exposed. His straight line speed can be inconsistent at times. Sometimes he looks shot out of a canon, other times he looks slow footed. I don't see anything wrong with his zone drops. He rares goes one on one with anyone, where as Simmons was always one on one with someone. I think his shuttle shows up sometimes when tackling in space and he has issues bringing down the more athletic guys.


This play is man coverage in trips. Bad technique. Opens his hips too soon instead of staying square. Does much better a minute later. Probably very raw in the man on man aspect.

Ok, finished Harrison, Queen, Murray, and Simmons. I am going to take Simmons out of the equation at ILB entirely. That isn't really what he is, but he will be a good player you can center the back end around. As an ILB I would go Murray, Queen at 30 and Harrison at 62. I like Murray a bit ahead of Queen, but I think both are pretty good picks at 30. I like both of them way better against the run compared to Simmons. Neither has the athletic ability of Simmons, but both are good in coverage.

Out of that batch, Harrison and Wilson looked the best. About equal. Dunno if either quuuuite has the speed to get to the sideline on outside runs. If they diagnose quickly, maybe. But otherwise they're fine ILBs. As good run defenders, wouldn't be bad compliments to Kirksey and nice consolation prizes if we miss out on Queen & Murray.

Wilson has a funny "intentional whiff" -thing where he tackles air real wide to slow runners down. Gotta get rid of that habit.

Dye looked a bit like Simmons lite, not nearly as fast. Very thin WR-like frame, and got neutralized by almost any blocker. Does have some coverage ability. Could maybe play the weak side ILB. Or not at all - doesn't have the backup option to play safety that Simmons does.

Davis-Gaither would need some serious yoga to get those hips moving. Being light and straight-line speed -only is not a good combo. Don't like him at all.

Willie Gay looked like a play-making risk-taker. Sometimes makes great aggressive plays, sometimes takes himself outta the picture with bad angles. Instincts are on and off. Only occasionally played to his sub 4.5 speed.

What shall we watch today?

CBs!

Let's spend 3 days on TEs. Day one on Cole Kmet, second on the fastest of the bunch Albert Okwuegbunam, third on other top prospects. Looking at rankings, not a whole lotta top talent here, we may see R1 without any TEs picked...

Anyways, time you met Kmet!

BF004 wrote: ↑

14 Apr 2020 07:29

CBs!

You thought I was really asking...



Maybe CBs next...