Packers Huddle

NCF wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 10:10

Drj820 wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 09:34

By all accounts, Gutey seems determined to work something out with Adams. Who can blame him really? The guy is amazing.

But I was wondering if there was consensus or varying opinion on resigning Adams. Adams is one of my favorite Packers. I do believe he is a top 3 WR in the league. I also think we desperately need him, because our bench is weak behind him. That said, I understand opportunity cost. If not resigning Adams meant we promptly pay Jaire, keep Tonyan, maybe MVS if he has a great year, and bring in an FA WR...might it be worth letting him go, when we consider the things we can buy without him?

I understand Gutey seems set on getting the deal done, we shall see if he can or not...but would you rather have Adams and lose multiple starters on the team? Or lose Adams and resign multiple players that currently start?

Edit: I see some people posted opinions before on this topic, just wondering if there are any new opinions on the matter.

My thoughts are that it kind of depends on this season. If the team finishes strong and the only difference next year is we are moving forward without Aaron, then yeah, I want him back. If it seems like we are a little ways away and will be breaking in a new QB, I am more apt to blow up the team a little more. Move on from Adams, Z and any guys that aren't really part of a new 5-year core so they can afford guys like Jaire while adding new young blood to the team.

Love is a 1st round pick going into his 3rd season next year. There should be smooth transition. Give it your best shot with him and if it doesnt work then blow everything up. No reason to blow it up before Love even gets a chance.

I know this is message board sacrilege, but I honestly just don't feel strongly about it one way or another. Keep Adams and lose MVS and Tonyan and probably one more guy; or sign Adams and have to let MVS and Tonyan walk while likely having to move on from someone overpaid a bit on defense. The wild thing is what happens is the Smith Brothers play like 2019 and both look dominant, removing an "easy" cut. But that's further out.

What I DO want is for something to happen before or early in the season, honestly. I don't want to be sitting here in February with Tonyan, MVS, and Adams all coming up on free agency, each at the height of their contractual leverage, and we're still trying to answer this question.

And while we talk about MVS as a one-trick pony, it's a valuable trick. I know this isn't apples to apples, but if you look at guys like Robby Anderson and Will Fuller it's very easy to imagine MVS garnering around $10 million per year if he takes even a small step forward this year, let alone a big one.

I think I'm leaning more toward letting Adams walk and using Rodgers compensation to secure a highly-drafted WR and maybe a traded WR in the deal itself. But the moment I see an announcement that we've locked up Adams for 4 more years, I'd celebrate. So yeah, no strong stance.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 10:46

There should be smooth transition.

There wasn't in 2008. It just usually doesn't happen that way. "Blow it up" was probably a harsh term. What I really mean is prioritize most/all 2nd-contract guys over any 3rd-contract guys. There is a lot of carryover money, etc. that can really benefit the short-term future by sacrificing even a single season. Also, as you love to point out, doing so is bound to benefit us in the draft capital arena. Z and Adams are the two I would be very hesitant to do monster deals for, at this point, because I don't think they have more than a few years of prime football left.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 10:48

But the moment I see an announcement that we've locked up Adams for 4 more years, I'd celebrate. So yeah, no strong stance.

Exact same boat. You'd be stupid to not want Adams back. But, is it the most fiscally prudent decision to make? If they end up splitting the difference between their current stalemate, I'd say probably not.

For me i feel similar to how i felt about Aaron Jones. I agree with the player that he deserves to be PAID, like bigly. I will be happy for Adams if he has to go elsewhere to get that paycheck. If he can get generational wealth out of this next contract, I will be thrilled for him.

However, if wants top WR money and he is saying Dhops deal is the deal he needs to go above, I hope that deal is given to him elsewhere. If he can give us any kind of break that makes sense for the team and him, I want him back bad.

There is a number that if we pay him i will grimmace because I know what will mean for other valuable pieces, but if there is any agreeable number at all that makes sense for both parties..I am all for it. But if he leaves to go get top dollar, i understand.

NCF wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 10:49

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 10:46

There should be smooth transition.

There wasn't in 2008. It just usually doesn't happen that way. "Blow it up" was probably a harsh term. What I really mean is prioritize most/all 2nd-contract guys over any 3rd-contract guys. There is a lot of carryover money, etc. that can really benefit the short-term future by sacrificing even a single season. Also, as you love to point out, doing so is bound to benefit us in the draft capital arena. Z and Adams are the two I would be very hesitant to do monster deals for, at this point, because I don't think they have more than a few years of prime football left.

I actually think the transition was smooth between Favre and Rodgers. That 2008 team was unlucky. They lost 7 games by a possession. The offense had a slight drop off but they performed. Rodgers had what he needed to succeed on offense. Take Adams off this team and Love doesnt have what it takes to succeed outside of a good scheme and running game.

NCF wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 10:52

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 10:48

But the moment I see an announcement that we've locked up Adams for 4 more years, I'd celebrate. So yeah, no strong stance.

Exact same boat. You'd be stupid to not want Adams back. But, is it the most fiscally prudent decision to make? If they end up splitting the difference between their current stalemate, I'd say probably not.

I love Adams, but I'd go with Yoho's plan B, where going to lose Rodgers so we might as well rebuild the WR room, I don't see a decline with MVS, in fact I think we'll see his ceiling this year, so we aught to extend him prior, plus we have Amari so our #1 slot position is taken care of, so then use some of Rodgers compensation to find another #1 receiver.

Tonyan is another story, he's already arrived and will be costly no matter if we sign him now or next off season, if, and it seems like we will use a lot of 12 package, so Tonyan is worth paying for.

this cap situation will make it tough to sign some players and 20 mil. for Adams just doesn't seem possible.

Aaron Jones is in his prime. Adams will be 30 this year. There is no way he lives up to a "Best WR in the league"-contract if we give it to him now. Maybe he can for another year or (at best) two, but not years three or four.

Assuming we won't be able to afford it even with Rodgers's contract off the books (who knows, maybe shedding his contract and a few others will do the trick)... I would much rather use that money to pay Jaire, Tonyan, and MVS (who by all accounts has taken a significant step forward). Or, for that matter, use it towards fielding an elite defense (buy a quality DT to pair with Clark, maybe some LB help).

Paying Adams might make sense for some teams next year, but I don't think it will make sense for us.

maybe im minority but I think Adams will continue to be great for at least 3 more seasons. His game will age well i believe. His game is predicated on great route running, great footwork, good hands, and having a high football IQ. Its not like he has to be the fastest guy on the field to be successful and once he loses that, then he declines. I think he is set up to do well for a while.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 13:48

Its not like he has to be the fastest guy on the field to be successful and once he loses that, then he declines. I think he is set up to do well for a while.

There is a minimum speed required and once someone falls below that threshold they become pretty one-dimensional and, frankly, useless. We saw it with Antonio Freeman, we saw it with Donald Driver, and we saw it with Jordy Nelson. It sucks, but as they say, father time is undefeated.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 13:48

maybe im minority but I think Adams will continue to be great for at least 3 more seasons. His game will age well i believe. His game is predicated on great route running, great footwork, good hands, and having a high football IQ. Its not like he has to be the fastest guy on the field to be successful and once he loses that, then he declines. I think he is set up to do well for a while.

I agree with this. Nothing about my calculations on this issue have anything to do with Adams' age or decline. He'll be good at least through aged 34. No worries about a 3-4 year extension from me. It's just the cost and cap situation. The tradeoffs. I'm not worried about the player.

NCF wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 14:17

Drj820 wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 13:48

Its not like he has to be the fastest guy on the field to be successful and once he loses that, then he declines. I think he is set up to do well for a while.

There is a minimum speed required and once someone falls below that threshold they become pretty one-dimensional and, frankly, useless. We saw it with Antonio Freeman, we saw it with Donald Driver, and we saw it with Jordy Nelson. It sucks, but as they say, father time is undefeated.

Wha....? double D played 14 seasons, and still had all his God given gifts well past 10 of them, Devonte is going into year 7 and looks like spring chicken, I'd say baring a unforeseen injury he should easily be able to produce at this level for 3 to even 5 more years, thing is though can we afford to pay his asking price, and will he want to play here after Rodgers leaves.

Yoop wrote: ↑

20 Aug 2021 07:17

NCF wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 14:17

Drj820 wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 13:48

Its not like he has to be the fastest guy on the field to be successful and once he loses that, then he declines. I think he is set up to do well for a while.

There is a minimum speed required and once someone falls below that threshold they become pretty one-dimensional and, frankly, useless. We saw it with Antonio Freeman, we saw it with Donald Driver, and we saw it with Jordy Nelson. It sucks, but as they say, father time is undefeated.

Wha....? double D played 14 seasons, and still had all his God given gifts well past 10 of them, Devonte is going into year 7 and looks like spring chicken, I'd say baring a unforeseen injury he should easily be able to produce at this level for 3 to even 5 more years, thing is though can we afford to pay his asking price, and will he want to play here after Rodgers leaves.

My point was you never know exactly when it's going to hit. There is no exact recipe. Driver was one extreme and Antonio Freeman was the complete opposite where pretty much right after signing his big contract his speed evaporated and he was never the same.

NCF wrote: ↑

20 Aug 2021 07:39

Yoop wrote: ↑

20 Aug 2021 07:17

NCF wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 14:17

There is a minimum speed required and once someone falls below that threshold they become pretty one-dimensional and, frankly, useless. We saw it with Antonio Freeman, we saw it with Donald Driver, and we saw it with Jordy Nelson. It sucks, but as they say, father time is undefeated.

Wha....? double D played 14 seasons, and still had all his God given gifts well past 10 of them, Devonte is going into year 7 and looks like spring chicken, I'd say baring a unforeseen injury he should easily be able to produce at this level for 3 to even 5 more years, thing is though can we afford to pay his asking price, and will he want to play here after Rodgers leaves.

My point was you never know exactly when it's going to hit. There is no exact recipe. Driver was one extreme and Antonio Freeman was the complete opposite where pretty much right after signing his big contract his speed evaporated and he was never the same.

Prime Antonio Freeman was right during the start of my Packers fandom. I was about 8 years old and playing with the Packers on NFL Gameday 99, so i surely wasnt looking at Freeman with some critical eye and evaluating his game and style in-depth...but he always seemed of a different style than Adams. Idk, I just feel the way Davante wins at the line with footwork/precision/route running...not speed, will translate into a long career. As Yoop said, he’s in year 7, I think he’s got plenty of prime play left in him. I do see the opportunity cost of signing him as a reason to move on, I have zero worries about an imminent massive decline

Back in the day, I thought Robert Brooks was better than Freeman - but I was just a kid then. Numbers-wise, they were pretty close when healthy.

ETA: Freeman tended to body-catch, maybe that skewed my opinion

Am I the only one that thinks paying Adams big $$$ would be a mistake? He has been in the league since 2014. He is due to decline at any time. Then add in that he doesn't just want a big contract, but to be the highest paid WR in the league at around $30 million per?

just think, D A ranks 6 or 7 on the all time Packer WR list, we'd probably have to have another stock sale to pay for Sharp, Hutson, or Lofton,

wallyuwl wrote: ↑

20 Aug 2021 17:00

Am I the only one that thinks paying Adams big $$$ would be a mistake? He has been in the league since 2014. He is due to decline at any time. Then add in that he doesn't just want a big contract, but to be the highest paid WR in the league at around $30 million per?

Normally I would say yes. The issue is we haven’t invested in the boundary WR position in 4 years and when we did we got nothing but inconsistency. No one is ready to take the mantle. We went from Driver, to Jennings, to Jordy, to Adams. Someone was always being groomed to step in. We have not done that in recent years. This year we made a play for Rodgers but he is just a slot option.

Why should the Packers invest heavily in receiver draft choices?

Tonyan is now a top 5 TE
There is no reason the believe that A. Rodgers can't be above average and maybe a lot more as a slot receiver
If MVS has fixed his hands, as he apparently has since midseason last year, he is a legitimate WR#2 and maybe an average WR#1
Lazard is at least an average WR#2
Jones is certainly a top 3 receiving RB and IMO the #1

How many of these were drafted high?

Assuming AR is gone after this season, the Packers can easily afford to keep them all.

The combination is not a top group of receivers, but Tonyan, MVS and Lazard still have room to grow and there is no limit for A. Rodgers.

So what if they lose Adams? Resign Tonyan and MVS and Lazard and Jenkins and Alexander and the team will be better than if they had kept Adams and lost 3 of these 5.

NCF wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 14:17

Drj820 wrote: ↑

19 Aug 2021 13:48

Its not like he has to be the fastest guy on the field to be successful and once he loses that, then he declines. I think he is set up to do well for a while.

There is a minimum speed required and once someone falls below that threshold they become pretty one-dimensional and, frankly, useless. We saw it with Antonio Freeman, we saw it with Donald Driver, and we saw it with Jordy Nelson. It sucks, but as they say, father time is undefeated.

I thought we had perhaps seen it with Randall Cobb, too. I’m hopeful it was simply injuries that were slowing him down and relegating him to the one-trick (Rodgers’ favorite) backyard-ball receiver.