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40 pages in a matter of days? Wow. Thanks for ruining the entire draft process for those drafted and for the fans. I can’t even imagine how annoying reporters are going to be with the same questions over and over for players that will start practicing eventually.
It’s a good 40 page read though - lots of good insights and perspectives - and also a heck of a lot of revisionist history to fit their narrow perspectives by the usual people. The ego involved is incredible to watch in full motion.
I mean it was almost embarrassing during MLF's presser.
It was like 10 minutes in and finally I think it was Herman who asked..."how bout your 1st round pick?"
I also don’t want to push it into the future too much, so I’m going for recently executed picks rather than unknown future picks.
Why? This is going to be a transitional year and we have a good team. Improving it marginally doesn't make sense to me if we can get that value back in future drafts to build a decent window when we are ready to compete, again... maybe as early as next season.
I agree, it will be a transitional year and I also don't like Leatherwood. I also don't care where they send AR. Maximum value and don't worry about playing him, even twice.
I disagree with yoop that we need another #1. Ive said constantly this team doesnt need another dominant receiver. You already have Adams. But you need someone else decent enough. MVS is ok but the drops are maddening. He has no consistency to his game. He balled out against the Bucs but too often he lets the team down at the pro level. Lazard is ok but this guy shouldnt be starting either. Theres a lack of consistency on his end to get open. I respect him because hes doing everything he can to make up for his deficiencies but at some point youve got to do better than Lazard. Maybe that was the plan with Funchess. Im not a fan but I guess I can respect the idea.
Like I said I dont think you needed to go WR with the 1st overall pick or trade up for one. But you had to get one at some point with your top 4 picks. You could have moved down. You could have stayed there and taken Pittman or Higgins I guess. There were options. Instead they moved up and took a QB. On top they didnt take any WRs. They didnt take any the year prior.
Ive heard the argument "rookie WRs struggle year one." Well you know when they seem to make a jump? Year two. Would be helping us a lot going into this year. Idk. I think the position has been mismanaged and weve watched this team mismanage positions before. Going into a year with nothing at RB over and over and then no TE over and over, and poor ILB play for damn near a decade, or poor CBs over and over, or poor S play. This team is too slow to correct their flaws.
it was so obvious, yet some here will deny or even refuse to talk about it, this team with Erving was damn near un stoppable on offense last year, when he went down it took us two or 3 games for Lafluer to scheme around his loss, sure we won, but not as easily, and Ervin was a scrub, we got Auston and he wasn't even as good as Ervin, no way anyone is telling me that one of those top receiver that we sure as hell could have traded up and taken wouldn't have helped us more against tampa
if your gonna play against a team with excellent lbers then ya need players designed to beat them, we didn't have enough impact players, our best short area player was injured early ( Jones) and our best receivers was being mauled every where he ran, and the others rarely got open enough
tampa dominated the trenches, ( our ol was beat up) yet people here blame Rodgers for the loss, or make a point that he was one of the reasons we lost.
I hear no one player would have made a difference remarks, which makes no sense, often just one play decides play off games, we needed a slot receiver last year not a replacement to take over for Rodgers, in that sense I hold Guty just as much responsible for that loss then any player on the roster
Yeah, no way in HECK am I giving back a first round pick we just selected under any circumstances.
I put Jackson in because he's a guy we'll likely lose in a year, anyway, and because in Mayock's case, at least, he is on the record as an analyst singing his praises AND the Raiders' D employs one of the 3 DCs in the league whose scheme is what I've always wanted for Jackson. He's not very valuable for us, and he could be more valuable to someone else in the right circumstances. And if we take on a bunch of cheap rookie deals with talent, then clearing bodies makes sense.
As for the contract crunch that would emerge from this in 2 years, you're kind of right? I'd expect us to roll over a lot of cap room from 2022 (first Rodgers-free year) and be perfectly capoable of making the right choices in terms of retention come 2023 and 2024 when the new TV money puts everything back to normal.
Plus, it's not like we'd stop having rookies. In this scenario, we'd still have 2 firsts in 2022 and our regular contingent of picks moving forward. I just want a LOT of talent injected to move forward IF Rodgers isn't going to be here. As I keep repeating, the Packers do not want to or need to trade this man. IF we do, it's a "name the price" situation, not a "take the best we can get."
Rodgers can sit, complain, hold out, retire, whatever he wants. WHEN he decides he wants to play football again, it's either FOR us or through the vast enrichment of the franchise's resources.
I also don’t want to push it into the future too much, so I’m going for recently executed picks rather than unknown future picks.
Why? This is going to be a transitional year and we have a good team. Improving it marginally doesn't make sense to me if we can get that value back in future drafts to build a decent window when we are ready to compete, again... maybe as early as next season.
I too am MUCH more on board with future picks.
The problem is right now, future picks can range so wildly in value. Let's say we get 2022 - 2024 1sts and maybe even throw in a 2022 2nd.
Our issue is we don't know if that 2022 first will be a top 10 pick or if will be the 26th pick which is essentially an additional 1st in value.
That's why I have such a hard time trading Rodgers this summer unless I know we are getting a bonafide top 10 pick. Even if it is just 1.
Like I would probably get on board on getting Surtain, a QB and the 2022 - 2023 first round picks plus a 2nd for Rodgers, Jackson and maybe another player Rodgers likes.
And people may scoff at my trade values. But understand these 1sts will be late 1sts which is half the value of a top 10 first.
I also don’t want to push it into the future too much, so I’m going for recently executed picks rather than unknown future picks.
Why? This is going to be a transitional year and we have a good team. Improving it marginally doesn't make sense to me if we can get that value back in future drafts to build a decent window when we are ready to compete, again... maybe as early as next season.
I agree, it will be a transitional year and I also don't like Leatherwood. I also don't care where they send AR. Maximum value and don't worry about playing him, even twice.
The anti-Leatherwood is silly.
I certainly think he was more worthy of the 45th pick than the 17th. But that big man will be a starting OL in this league for a long time, likely at RT. He's not elite but he would immediately be our 3rd best OT and would challenge Turner's job in 22 if we want out of that salary.
Also Leatherwood is by far the lowest value acquisition. Moehrig, who went in the second, would be a slot defender (I'd rather have Surtain than Moehrig, but whatevs).
The fact that the Raiders and Broncos are both possible destination is also perfect because if one team loses out, the other has to play him twice a year and look out at their backup QB and #2 WR and say "wait, was this worth the cost?"
IF we do, it's a "name the price" situation, not a "take the best we can get."
I don't think anyone disagrees with this part of it. It's what we get back. You seem to value the immediate impact more than I and some others seem to. I will say, if the Packers really, really like those guys than fine. I suspect they will value their own lottery ticket more, though, you know? Ruggs/Jeudy are different because we have a year of NFL film on those guys.
The fact that the Raiders and Broncos are both possible destination is also perfect because if one team loses out, the other has to play him twice a year and look out at their backup QB and #2 WR and say "wait, was this worth the cost?"
and now we want to trade Rodgers to teams to get receivers we could have drafted last year.
I was thinking along the same lines (out of our reach, actually, but whatevs) and thought...that irony would surely eat at AR’s craw. I’m on board.
probably not Ruggs, Samual, or Reager, but JJ or Ayuik where possible, if ya can move up 5 slots for his replacement, you surely could move up some more for a receiver he probably wanted, obviously Rodgers felt so
water over the bridge now, everyone hates Rodgers, and rightfully so I guess, this was a poor way of settling a impass with Guty, still I'am not at the point where throwing in the towel on Rodgers for draft compensation is the best solution to the problem, I still hope this can be worked out.
Last edited by Yoop on 04 May 2021 08:27, edited 1 time in total.
and now we want to trade Rodgers to teams to get receivers we could have drafted last year.
I was thinking along the same lines (out of our reach, actually, but whatevs) and thought...that irony would surely eat at AR’s craw. I’m on board.
probably not Ruggs, Samual, or Reager, but JJ or Ayuik where possible, if ya can move up 5 slots for his replacement, you surely could move up some more for a receiver he probably wanted, obviously Rodgers felt so
It's all rumor and stuff now so I don't want to get too much into it, but there is reports swirling that the Packers wanted Jefferson and their trade was originally for Aiuyck but the 49ers took him then at 25.
I would have to imagine these conversations don't just happen when teams are on the clock. For instance, the Ravens and Packers maybe already had a deal in place to trade up to 26 and they were gonna take Ayuick but then he is gone so they take Love.
But you obviously don't want to publicly say, "yeah Love was our 2nd choice". Although it would have been smart to tell Rodgers then, "we tried by the 49ers got our guy" which would have probably helped smooth things over more.
I don't know. Probably could have done things better. Also sometimes you just can't do much when a massive WR run happens when you don't expect it. I know I certainly didn't think we would see our 3 favorite prospects literally go in 3 of 4 spots.
And Reagor and Jefferson are literally one the same. We would have had to trade to slot 20 with Jacksonville to get either of them and both would have been available.
Just thinking a bit about the overall situation and what others still on the roster may think about it.
I wonder about players like Big Dawg, Mercedes Lewis. A respected vet. Someone Rodgers looks up to...if you believe his previous comments.
I wonder what Lewis thinks of this mess privately. I don’t think he’d ever think to pull a stunt like this himself, or even let a private dispute go public in any way. Also, I don’t think he’d ever go public with comments that undermine Rodgers or any other player. I do wonder, though, whether he’d be compelled to have a private conversation with Rodgers. Maybe act as that “sanity check” type voice to re-tether Rodgers.
Mason Crosby too. Maybe Bahk. Adams.
These other players are close to Rodgers and surely see the chasm being created. All this over Kumerow? And Love? All tied to a perceived level of “respect”...respect that none of these other established and tenured high level players receive nor expect either.
Surely they see a level of privilege Rodgers demands that they, themselves, don’t receive. Makes you wonder how that sits with them? And whether they’d be compelled to have a private conversation with Rodgers to share those thoughts? Or is AR just too unapproachable for even his closest friends to broach something like that?
Anyway, just spitballing here. Does make you curious, though.
I was thinking along the same lines (out of our reach, actually, but whatevs) and thought...that irony would surely eat at AR’s craw. I’m on board.
probably not Ruggs, Samual, or Reager, but JJ or Ayuik where possible, if ya can move up 5 slots for his replacement, you surely could move up some more for a receiver he probably wanted, obviously Rodgers felt so
It's all rumor and stuff now so I don't want to get too much into it, but there is reports swirling that the Packers wanted Jefferson and their trade was originally for Aiuyck but the 49ers took him then at 25.
I would have to imagine these conversations don't just happen when teams are on the clock. For instance, the Ravens and Packers maybe already had a deal in place to trade up to 26 and they were gonna take Ayuick but then he is gone so they take Love.
But you obviously don't want to publicly say, "yeah Love was our 2nd choice". Although it would have been smart to tell Rodgers then, "we tried by the 49ers got our guy" which would have probably helped smooth things over more.
I don't know. Probably could have done things better. Also sometimes you just can't do much when a massive WR run happens when you don't expect it. I know I certainly didn't think we would see our 3 favorite prospects literally go in 3 of 4 spots.
And Reagor and Jefferson are literally one the same. We would have had to trade to slot 20 with Jacksonville to get either of them and both would have been available.
GPG, if Guty can dance all around round one and eventually come back down for Alexander, then trade down 10 spots to get savage the following draft, no way you can tell me he couldn't do the same for either of JJ or Ayuik, so I can't agree with the idea he couldn't get a trade partner, if ya want someone then ya do what it takes to get them.
also, we lost to Tampa for a variety of reasons, one of those slot receivers would have obviously helped us, people are acting obtuse to think one wouldn't have.
Just thinking a bit about the overall situation and what others still on the roster may think about it.
I wonder about players like Big Dawg, Mercedes Lewis. A respected vet. Someone Rodgers looks up to...if you believe his previous comments.
I wonder what Lewis thinks of this mess privately. I don’t think he’d ever think to pull a stunt like this himself, or even let a private dispute go public in any way. Also, I don’t think he’d ever go public with comments that undermine Rodgers or any other player. I do wonder, though, whether he’d be compelled to have a private conversation with Rodgers. Maybe act as that “sanity check” type voice to re-tether Rodgers.
Mason Crosby too. Maybe Bahk. Adams.
These other players are close to Rodgers and surely see the chasm being created. All this over Kumerow? And Love? All tied to a perceived level of “respect”...respect that none of these other established and tenured high level players receive nor expect either.
Surely they see a level of privilege Rodgers demands that they, themselves, don’t receive. Makes you wonder how that sits with them? And whether they’d be compelled to have a private conversation with Rodgers to share those thoughts? Or is AR just too unapproachable for even his closest friends to broach something like that?
Anyway, just spitballing here. Does make you curious, though.
that should be happening, and maybe it will, but Adams tweet yesterday seems to be on AR's side, that can get sticky though, remember when Favre chastised Walker, Walker told him to mind his own business, could be players don't want to get in the middle of this, taking sides could have a backlash, we dumped Walker shortly after that exchange.
probably not Ruggs, Samual, or Reager, but JJ or Ayuik where possible, if ya can move up 5 slots for his replacement, you surely could move up some more for a receiver he probably wanted, obviously Rodgers felt so
It's all rumor and stuff now so I don't want to get too much into it, but there is reports swirling that the Packers wanted Jefferson and their trade was originally for Aiuyck but the 49ers took him then at 25.
I would have to imagine these conversations don't just happen when teams are on the clock. For instance, the Ravens and Packers maybe already had a deal in place to trade up to 26 and they were gonna take Ayuick but then he is gone so they take Love.
But you obviously don't want to publicly say, "yeah Love was our 2nd choice". Although it would have been smart to tell Rodgers then, "we tried by the 49ers got our guy" which would have probably helped smooth things over more.
I don't know. Probably could have done things better. Also sometimes you just can't do much when a massive WR run happens when you don't expect it. I know I certainly didn't think we would see our 3 favorite prospects literally go in 3 of 4 spots.
And Reagor and Jefferson are literally one the same. We would have had to trade to slot 20 with Jacksonville to get either of them and both would have been available.
GPG, if Guty can dance all around round one and eventually come back down for Alexander, then trade down 10 spots to get savage the following draft, no way you can tell me he couldn't do the same for either of JJ or Ayuik, so I can't agree with the idea he couldn't get a trade partner, if ya want someone then ya do what it takes to get them.
also, we lost to Tampa for a variety of reasons, one of those slot receivers would have obviously helped us, people are acting obtuse to think one wouldn't have.
No I would agree we could have moved up to slot 20 to get Jefferson.
It's about 210 points to do it. So it would have probably looked like we give up 2nd, we swapped 3rd round picks and then we give them a 4th.
And hindsight that maybe would have been a good move. Especially because Dillon maybe could have dropped.
I also don’t want to push it into the future too much, so I’m going for recently executed picks rather than unknown future picks.
Why? This is going to be a transitional year and we have a good team. Improving it marginally doesn't make sense to me if we can get that value back in future drafts to build a decent window when we are ready to compete, again... maybe as early as next season.
Players we know are quality on rookie deals are always more of a sure bet than draft picks we have never seen play in the league though.
At Guteys current draft record, we could expect about 1 star, 1 quality starter, and 2 guys struggling to make the field by year 3 if we got two 1s and two 2s for AR.
Just thinking a bit about the overall situation and what others still on the roster may think about it.
I wonder about players like Big Dawg, Mercedes Lewis. A respected vet. Someone Rodgers looks up to...if you believe his previous comments.
I wonder what Lewis thinks of this mess privately. I don’t think he’d ever think to pull a stunt like this himself, or even let a private dispute go public in any way. Also, I don’t think he’d ever go public with comments that undermine Rodgers or any other player. I do wonder, though, whether he’d be compelled to have a private conversation with Rodgers. Maybe act as that “sanity check” type voice to re-tether Rodgers.
Mason Crosby too. Maybe Bahk. Adams.
These other players are close to Rodgers and surely see the chasm being created. All this over Kumerow? And Love? All tied to a perceived level of “respect”...respect that none of these other established and tenured high level players receive nor expect either.
Surely they see a level of privilege Rodgers demands that they, themselves, don’t receive. Makes you wonder how that sits with them? And whether they’d be compelled to have a private conversation with Rodgers to share those thoughts? Or is AR just too unapproachable for even his closest friends to broach something like that?
Anyway, just spitballing here. Does make you curious, though.
Eh i kinda disagree with what you are implying here. I think Crosby has been extended privilege in the form of the guy is accurate, but he cant consistently kick the ball out of the back of the end zone on KOs, yet he is a very high paid kicker.
Big Dawg came back on a big deal for his age and production.
Bahk just became the leagues highest paid LT.
Adams is the guy I see getting consistently disrespected when the world screams Rodgers has no help...yet I think Rodgers literally has a HOF WR who is top 3 in the league IMO.
But I think the guys you mentioned are Rodgers friends. They have seen how the org works and how the org will move on when they feel like it sometime unceremoniously. I mean apparently AP Linsley really wanted to come back to GB. He probably would have done it at a rate lower than what the Chargers paid him..yet according to him, the Packers never even approached his agent.
The current leadership seems to not give lots of valued players a courtesy call to let them know what they are thinking.
I could see the younger guys resenting Rodgers. But I think the OGs know that 12 has made them all better and allowed them to win way more than they would have otherwise. I think they understand the game that is being played here.
However, I do think that can quickly change if he actually does leave. I could see lots of players just knowing how this works and still expecting him to come back for 2021. I mean Adams doesnt seem mad at the guy at all.
The one guy I bet is real pissed is Aaron Jones. My guess is he cashes out elsewhere for more money if he knew 12 was not gonna be in the fold.
Last edited by Drj820 on 04 May 2021 09:04, edited 1 time in total.
