Page 42 of 45

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 11:03
by Yoop
paco wrote:
22 Apr 2024 08:12
Can someone explain to me why center is so under-valued like I'm 5? Seems to me it would be the most or 2nd most important on the line.
mentally= most important position, physically least important, or i might say complimentary position simply because he is more of a helper then the main guy in run blocking, in pass pro his main task is anchoring, the Center is rarely asked to pull out as a blocker, rather he gets tasked with walling off back side pursuit of weak side lber.

just from my memory of being a stud muffin bad ass 57 years ago :rotf: :rotf:

maybe I should go look this up, but then what would Packfn 23 and a few others have to do :rotf:

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 11:05
by Labrev
paco wrote:
22 Apr 2024 08:12
Can someone explain to me why center is so under-valued like I'm 5? Seems to me it would be the most or 2nd most important on the line.
Because the position is often played adequately by the players with the greatest size and/or athletic limitations at OL. You can be small and/or a marginal athlete and still be an adequate starting C. We won it all in 2010 with Scott Wells at C, who was a scrappy undersized guy, not overly athletic.

I am also under the impression, but am not sure if I am right about this, so someone more into X's and O's can correct me, but... it seems to me that often times, the C is usually involved on double-team blocks more often than they are expected to hold up 1-on-1, unless you have a really good starter like Kelce.

It is also my impression that the C is not asked to move as much as the G's. Hence, you can get by with a C who is not overly big or athletic.

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 11:06
by Labrev
With all that said, I think it is an underrated position. They make calls up front and has to have a good mind-meld with the QB.

It is sort of like TE where you do not need him to be more than an "extra" blocker or receiver, but if you have one who is really good at one or both of those things, it adds another wrinkle that really elevates your offense.

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 11:08
by Yoop
paco wrote:
22 Apr 2024 10:55
I didn't get to listen to it, but reading snippits on Gutey's presser. Some intersting tidbits.

*Likes DeJean's versatitily, would like a do-everything guy at safety.
*There is definitely some subterfuge in "top-30" visits.
*Would like to add even more picks (13-14)
*Wants variety on the OL. (Might want to stay away from mocking top huge OT's this year).
podcaster Herman thinks Guyton is our man, and when ya deep dive the only thing he lacks is experience, no need to rush him and he has all pro ceiling :aok:

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 11:37
by BF004
My final prediction as well.


Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 11:45
by paco
Yoop wrote:
22 Apr 2024 11:08
paco wrote:
22 Apr 2024 10:55
I didn't get to listen to it, but reading snippits on Gutey's presser. Some intersting tidbits.

*Likes DeJean's versatitily, would like a do-everything guy at safety.
*There is definitely some subterfuge in "top-30" visits.
*Would like to add even more picks (13-14)
*Wants variety on the OL. (Might want to stay away from mocking top huge OT's this year).
podcaster Herman thinks Guyton is our man, and when ya deep dive the only thing he lacks is experience, no need to rush him and he has all pro ceiling :aok:
I really don't know anything about him. But we've already got 6'8 developmental OTs. Unless they think he'll be a superstar, I'm not sure about it. But I honestly won't be surprised by any pick.

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 11:59
by paco
Looks like the Falcons are going to get spanked by the NFL for tampering on Cousins.

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 12:10
by BF004
paco wrote:
22 Apr 2024 11:59
Looks like the Falcons are going to get spanked by the NFL for tampering on Cousins.
Pretty sure its just that same account, NFC_North_Newss pranking everyone again. :lol:

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 12:21
by paco
BF004 wrote:
22 Apr 2024 12:10
paco wrote:
22 Apr 2024 11:59
Looks like the Falcons are going to get spanked by the NFL for tampering on Cousins.
Pretty sure its just that same account, NFC_North_Newss pranking everyone again. :lol:
I didn't pay that close of attention, but I saw it on a few. But that's what I get for just glancing. Damn trolls.

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 12:35
by Yoop
paco wrote:
22 Apr 2024 11:45
Yoop wrote:
22 Apr 2024 11:08
paco wrote:
22 Apr 2024 10:55
I didn't get to listen to it, but reading snippits on Gutey's presser. Some intersting tidbits.

*Likes DeJean's versatitily, would like a do-everything guy at safety.
*There is definitely some subterfuge in "top-30" visits.
*Would like to add even more picks (13-14)
*Wants variety on the OL. (Might want to stay away from mocking top huge OT's this year).
podcaster Herman thinks Guyton is our man, and when ya deep dive the only thing he lacks is experience, no need to rush him and he has all pro ceiling :aok:
I really don't know anything about him. But we've already got 6'8 developmental OTs. Unless they think he'll be a superstar, I'm not sure about it. But I honestly won't be surprised by any pick.
Well I'd think at slot 25 Gute would think super star, Andy Herman doesn't think 1 inch will stop Gute from taking the lad, very athletic for his size, same with Mims, two very long biggies that could/might anchor either side, and possibly start at RT, personally I think both are to raw to take at slot 25, but we do have history of taking raw high ceiling players with intent on D&D

starting to perk my curiosity now more, think we'll go OL, SS, OL, another safety, ILB, kicker ( just kidding, no reason we can't have a little fun :lol: ) then RB

thinking with the depth in this draft at OL we should double up on the best of the group, and while the safety position doesn't have top end talent, 2nd and 3rd tier might produce a couple average starter caliber prospects, ILB and RB may be not as needy for talent, but are needs just the same.

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 13:36
by NCF
paco wrote:
22 Apr 2024 12:21
BF004 wrote:
22 Apr 2024 12:10
paco wrote:
22 Apr 2024 11:59
Looks like the Falcons are going to get spanked by the NFL for tampering on Cousins.
Pretty sure its just that same account, NFC_North_Newss pranking everyone again. :lol:
I didn't pay that close of attention, but I saw it on a few. But that's what I get for just glancing. Damn trolls.
I thought I saw PFT running with it, too.

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 13:38
by NCF
NCF wrote:
22 Apr 2024 13:36
paco wrote:
22 Apr 2024 12:21
BF004 wrote:
22 Apr 2024 12:10


Pretty sure its just that same account, NFC_North_Newss pranking everyone again. :lol:
I didn't pay that close of attention, but I saw it on a few. But that's what I get for just glancing. Damn trolls.
I thought I saw PFT running with it, too.

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 18:44
by BF004

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 22 Apr 2024 18:54
by lupedafiasco
I still believe it will be misty offense taken because they’re just better but I don’t think it’ll be as bad as what mocks and experts are making it out to be. Teams have drafted pretty damn close to evenly over the years.

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 23 Apr 2024 13:10
by YoHoChecko
I've posted a lot less about the draft this year than normal. Usually around the all star games I start my own thread of draft thoughts and early prospect lists and update as I have thoughts throughout. Because I didn't this year, most of my thoughts haven't been written down but I'm gonna try to put things here in a big @$$ post, so feel free to scroll on by and continue other conversations, but I need my takes in a quotable form so I can brag about my hits and bemoan my misses for years to come :mrgreen:

Pick 25

I have found myself REALLY wanting either Cooper Dejean or Graham Barton (or Fautanu or Fuaga--but they'll likely be longer-gone)

My thinking is that we have multiple needs on the OL and in the secondary. On the OLine, we likely need a starting-caliber C and a starting-caliber RG within the next 2 years. We need depth at OT and possible competition for our starters. In the secondary, we need competition for a starting nickel CB, we need a starting S, we need depth at every position.

And so using a top-caliber player with insane versatility to potentially fill ANY of those needs. And then as you move through the draft, the players who have less top-end ability can fill in the slots and putting out a complete, cohesive unit is that much easier.

So a 3-5 position OL and a versatile secondary piece really appeal to me, but as I look at the draft order, 20-24 are a murderers' row of teams that need help on the OL and in the secondary. For that reason, I would be VERY willing to trade either pick 88 or 91 to move from 25 to 20 or 19 to secure one of those two guys. That is very against my grain, but the 4/5-pick difference in player caliber we can get really feels steep to me. So it could be worth the cost... which is saying something because I LOVE the 3rd round this year (As Usual)

The Third(ish) Round: Some Names

The third round is a great time to grab the sleeper prospects at whatever big need position we miss out on with the first 2-3 picks. So I'm looking at safeties, OL, corners, and LBs that are in that 3rd/4th round

OFFENSIVE LINE
I've recently fallen in love with Brandon Coleman as a Packers prospect. Legit OT/OG versatility, hits our athletic thresholds, toughness and grit, pretty raw as he didn't start playing football until he was almost done with high school. Might be more like a late second but his value varies--could go between 55 and 85 I'd say.

Kiran Amegadjie out of Yale couldn't test because of injury but appears to have all of the athletic traits we would need; big competition jump and developmental needs combine with lack of testing make him a gamble, but that's why he'll likely be there in the 3rd. Some see him as a guard prospect, so potential developmental versatility.

Roger Rosengarten was a RT but for a left-handed QB in college. He hit all the athletic threshholds, though some tape grinders were surprised by his testing; that said, his movement skills are universally praised. Probably a tackle only, but could play either side. Kiper keeps putting him at the end of the 1st, but everywhere else I see has him in that 55 to 90 kind of range.

Blake Fisheris that young, athletic swing tackle that really screams Packers pick. Bet on the youth and upside. The tape was solid.

Mason McCormickis an interior versatile athletic player who fits Packers draft prospects to a tee on paper. He was said to dominate his lower level competition and has a great play demeanor. That said, his tape sounds like it shows a lot more stiffness than the athletic testing indicates. That has come up from a couple evaluators and worries me. I like him more in the 4th than in the 3rd for that reason.

Taylor Bordolini is measurably a carbon copy of Zach Tom except that his arms are 1.5 inches shorter. Same height, 4 pounds difference in weight. Bordolini a hair better on the insanely good agility tests (Packers definitely care about OL short shuttle). Bordolini allows us to, instead of moving a high-level OT inside to C, we can just draft his C-focused clone, who has a length issue to keep him inside. Plus he's a Packers fan.

LINEBACKERS

Honestly most of these guys are probably closer to 4th rounders than 3rd rounders. Maybe even some 5th. But these are the guys I like if we miss out on the top tier or want to double up

Jordan Magee out of Temple is My Guy at this position. He's a bit undersized in the McDuffie range (6013, 228) but runs a 4.55 and is REALLY smart. All the evaluators comment on his football IQ. I can't overstate how important I think it is to have a football IQ guy next to Walker to ensure both of their success. Walker can't be our green dot guy; he needs to think less, not more. Magee gives us the smarts without sacrificing athleticism, at the expense of size but that's the league trend. I would take him at 88 or 91 even though the people would call it a reach.

The only knock I can really see on Edefuan Ulofoshio out of Washington is that he's a bit of a 1-year wonder with an injury history. But he seems to have the smarts and athleticism (4.56) to match solid film with some playmaking. Some people think that he might be maxed out, but he's a high-floor player who would be a valuable special teamer if nothing else, but I really see a steady starting quality player here.

Cedric Gray from UNC is a pretty standard sleeper candidate for LB with good run and chase film and good enough NFL athleticism. I like him a lot, too.

Jalyx Hunt should be a 5th round flier as a developmental EDGE but the scuttlebutt keeps bringing him up making me think he might go top 100 or 120. But why do I have him with linebackers? Well, he's a former safety who ran the same times as Cedric Gray and other LBs like that. And he's not a very good pass rusher yet. He's a raw ball of clay. I like the idea of having a strongside LB who plays a limited role (as a 4-2-5 will be our primary alignment) but is also an edge option. Off ball with edge capability appeals to me more than edge with off ball capabilities for the new scheme. And at pick 126, I could see us taking on a conversion project; though pick 169(5th) would be a lot more exciting.

(The rest of my LB sleepers are solidly day 3 guys, so I won't go there)

SAFETIES

Malik Mustapha out of Wake Forest has been rising on some boards but with others caveating that the rise may overlook some coverage concerns. Mustapha would be a good complement to McKinney but would not give us the swap-ability with safeties. He's a big striker but not always the best wrapper. But he has instincts and downhill ability.

Kitan Oladapo has been mentioned here because he had a visit. He's another complement, but with a little bit better athleticism and sound tackling than Mustapha. Feels like a high floor guy.

Dadrian Taylor-Demerson gives us more of the McKinney-style rangy ball-hawk for the back end. He's another guy that's been talked about on the board already; feels like a skillset we value.

Tykee Smith from UGA remains one of my favorite slot/safety options. Good football IQ, good physicality. Feels like a good guy to have on the field if you're looking to improve run support out of nickel personnel.

CORNERBACK

Mostly focusing on nickel CBs in this stretch for no real reason--probably hoping that we get a boundary CB for depth earlier, but also because our nickel CB need is more clearly immediate, given Valentine's play last year and the potential for a Stokes bounce-back as he's further-removed from his injuries (I have strong doubts he becomes what he could have become given the delay in his development and the importance of speed to his game, but it would also be silly to write him off entirely)

My favorite 3rd/4th round nickel prospect is probably Jarvis Brownlee out of Louisville because he's got that dog in him. A little shorter but thicker, mediocre (but good enough) speed (4.51) but good quicks. Lots of plays on the ball throughout his career.

Kris Abrams-Draine is too thin (179/183) and played primarily outside, but I think his fit in the NFL will be in the slot and to work on his functional strength. A former high school QB, sees the game well, makes a lot of plays on the ball--like, a LOT.

Myles Harden from South Dakota is like a later-round version of Brownlee in terms of size and speed and NFL role. The competition jump and shorter arms and less ball skills push him down a bit, but a good alternative in the 5th (I'm straying from the 3rd/4th round premise here, huh?)

If I were to pick an outside corner in this range, it might be Cam Hart from Notre Dame. He's a bigger more physical corner that reminds me a bit of Rasul as a good matchup for an opposing team's most physical WR. He's been on my radar since a strong showing at the Senior Bowl.

I also can't leave this section without mentioning Elijah Jones, who probably shouldn't go until Day Three but if Hafley liked him at BC (and he was called one of the team's smartest players) he has the requisite size and athleticism to be an NFL DB. He needs to get stronger and I think in general the "college coach picks his own players in the NFL" dynamic is a bit overrated, it would make some sense to have a familiar guy who is smart and athletic in the building for a secondary transition.

Some Other Nuggets
  • I like Zach Frazier of West Virginia a LOT, but as a center-only prospect, it's hard for me to value him in the top 75
  • Jackson Powers-Johnson is falling in the league rumor mill and there seems to be smoke that there is "a reason" but no one I've heard has said if it's injury, character, or just the media got too carried away on him? Mixed opinions on whether he's a center-only or has guard capabilities, as well as how he'd fit in more of a zone scheme versus a power/gap scheme. But if he's there at 41, he'd be tough to pass up (assuming we did not already take Barton).
  • If we take a TE I would like a Day Three pick on Jaheem Bell and putting him in the Deguara role. His YAC ability would be sweet to be a FB/Hback short game role. He'd need to improve as a lead blocker, but that's easy to do.
  • I want to wait for Day Three at RB. I LOVE Tyrone Tracey, could go for Blake Watson--both former WRs. Isaac Guerendo, as well, as a complementary piece. Gurrendo sorta reminds me of Pachecko in terms of a big straight-line fast physical late rounder.
  • If we don't get the speed guy at RB, Ray Davis, Isiah Davis, Cody Schroeder, and Dylan Laube could be day three pieces. But I prefer the former group.
  • Day Three linebackers I like include Tyrice Knight from UTEP who I think has real upside; and Marist Liufau out of Notre Dame who I think is more a safe pick; plus a potential conversion from safety that has been talked about on the board for a safety like Jaylon Carlies.
  • Day Three safeties I like include Sione Vaki from Utah and Trey Taylor from Air Force.
  • I'm generally out on DL as a position to take in the draft this year. I understand the Slaton/Clark contract situations, but right now we have a full room and a young room. It'd be hard to kick someone off the roster for a rookie who won't contribute much this year. So if Johnny Newton or Murphy fall to 25 and we take them, so be it. But otherwise, I'm passing until next year.
  • This is sort of a buried early-draft take, but I'm warming to the notion that if we take a top-tier LB, I want it to be Junior Colston to ensure we have a field general in there--lack of testing and uncertain athleticism makes that a scary prospect--but he's the surest bet there.
  • Day Three athletic developmental OTs I like include Frank Crum from Wyoming, Garrett Greenfield from South Dakota St
  • Day Three Centers that I could get behind include Beaux Limmer (maybe should be in the 3rd/4th section here) and maybe Dylan McMahon though he's small.
  • The Guards I like completely dry up by the end of round three, I think. There are some OT to G convert prospects on Day three, but not many that are our athletic profile
  • If we go RB on Day Two, I want Trey Benson or Jalen Wright. The other guys are fine but don't move the needle for me
  • I haven't mentioned EDGE rushers because I haven't studied them much because the class isn't that good but I really don't love the class even though I could see adding a guy making sense. I like Jonah Ellis (3rd/4th) from Utah or Eric Watts from UConn (very late). I'm sure I'll talk myself into whoever we take there. OH, Adisa Isaac seems to be better than his media draft stock, so I could see that if he's there for us in round 3, but I think he goes earlier.

Ok, I think that's enough for now.

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 23 Apr 2024 13:39
by NCF
I'm with you on a lot of those guys, @YoHoChecko. Good work. I might try and brain dump a post of my own tomorrow if I find some free time.

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 23 Apr 2024 13:41
by NCF
YoHoChecko wrote:
23 Apr 2024 13:10
Jackson Powers-Johnson is falling in the league rumor mill and there seems to be smoke that there is "a reason" but no one I've heard has said if it's injury, character, or just the media got too carried away on him?
I have seen some tweets saying he did not help himself in interviews and just came off as full of himself. One of those things that could be taken as a positive depending on the degree to which we are talking. Unfortunately for him, it seems to potentially be to the degree that he turned a lot of evaluators off.
YoHoChecko wrote:
23 Apr 2024 13:10
If we take a TE I would like a Day Three pick on Jaheem Bell and putting him in the Deguara role. His YAC ability would be sweet to be a FB/Hback short game role. He'd need to improve as a lead blocker, but that's easy to do.
I love it. Not a need and an absolute luxury, but I still believe the right guy in that role could rip &%$@ in this offense.

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 23 Apr 2024 14:10
by paco
YoHoChecko wrote:
23 Apr 2024 13:10
  • This is sort of a buried early-draft take, but I'm warming to the notion that if we take a top-tier LB, I want it to be Junior Colston to ensure we have a field general in there--lack of testing and uncertain athleticism makes that a scary prospect--but he's the surest bet there.
Colson is starting to get 1st round buzz (as is Edgerrin Cooper).

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 23 Apr 2024 14:22
by YoHoChecko
paco wrote:
23 Apr 2024 14:10
YoHoChecko wrote:
23 Apr 2024 13:10
  • This is sort of a buried early-draft take, but I'm warming to the notion that if we take a top-tier LB, I want it to be Junior Colston to ensure we have a field general in there--lack of testing and uncertain athleticism makes that a scary prospect--but he's the surest bet there.
Colson is starting to get 1st round buzz (as is Edgerrin Cooper).
Yeah. Those are the sorts of things that scare me off, honestly--when a position is weak so the top guys get pushed up beyond their "natural" value, it's not where I want to go. Like is Colston really worth a top 40 pick or are there just teams desperate for linebacker help that will push him up to the top 40? I'm in the latter camp, and that's why I've been researching the later-round guys so much more to find potential gems. The value push might screw us at LB and we probably need two of them.

Re: 2024 Draft Discussion

Posted: 23 Apr 2024 14:38
by Pckfn23
I'm thinking CB(DeJean as a S), G, T, or ILB for pick 1. Whether that is at our current spot or a trade, I don't know. I have a feeling we aren't picking Thursday night just with how the board fits and how our needs align. That said, we probably trade up...