Page 45 of 204
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 20:10
by lupedafiasco
No owner to put pressure on the team to win.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 20:27
by Drj820
The packers basically run like managing a trust fund or an estate. The estate has clout and respect. The estate generates wealth through people coming to visit it and selling things that have to do with the well established family name/brand.
Murphy and the managers of the estate just want to keep shareholders off their back and keep turning a profit. As long as fans aren’t making demands or super pissed then they will probably just seek to keep business as usual and not rock the boat too much.
“Going all in” “mortgaging the future to win” etc etc is reasonable things Owners do when they are close and desperate to win a title.
The packers org/estate managers seem pretty content to be close, keep their jobs, and keep turning profits while keeping the brand/family name in good standing.
The high ego elite QBs have their own brands and estates to manage, and they want the estate to mortgage it all to get them a ring. The estate managers just won’t do it tho.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 20:36
by lupedafiasco
Drj820 wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:27
The packers basically run like managing a trust fund or an estate. The estate has clout and respect. The estate generates wealth through people coming to visit it and selling things that have to do with the well established family name/brand.
Murphy and the managers of the estate just want to keep shareholders off their back and keep turning a profit. As long as fans aren’t making demands or super pissed then they will probably just seek to keep business as usual and not rock the boat too much.
“Going all in” “mortgaging the future to win” etc etc is reasonable things Owners do when they are close and desperate to win a title.
The packers org/estate managers seem pretty content to be close, keep their jobs, and keep turning profits while keeping the brand/family name in good standing.
The high ego elite QBs have their own brands and estates to manage, and they want the estate to mortgage it all to get them a ring. The estate managers just won’t do it tho.
Bingo.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 20:39
by Backthepack4ever
Whats all in?? Ive pounded the table for a few players over the years that we could and mayne should have got but please what moves the last few years is all in??
All in is AR pulling a brady and taking a cut to get his dudes. Lets be honest here. JS
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 20:43
by BSA
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑04 May 2021 19:53
Why the $%@# does this keep happening to us.
Because the Packers keep screwing up and acquiring HOF QBs.
If the Packers would just follow the bears QB plan...there'd be no more messy separations.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 20:45
by go pak go
BSA wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:43
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑04 May 2021 19:53
Why the $%@# does this keep happening to us.
Because the Packers keep screwing up and acquiring HOF QBs.
If the Packers would just follow the bears QB plan...there'd be no more messy separations.
I wish we were like other organizations who had owners who applied pressure to win in the short term so we could still lose but feel like our team is "going all in".
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 20:47
by Yoop
Drj820 wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:27
The packers basically run like managing a trust fund or an estate. The estate has clout and respect. The estate generates wealth through people coming to visit it and selling things that have to do with the well established family name/brand.
Murphy and the managers of the estate just want to keep shareholders off their back and keep turning a profit. As long as fans aren’t making demands or super pissed then they will probably just seek to keep business as usual and not rock the boat too much.
“Going all in” “mortgaging the future to win” etc etc is reasonable things Owners do when they are close and desperate to win a title.
The packers org/estate managers seem pretty content to be close, keep their jobs, and keep turning profits while keeping the brand/family name in good standing.
The high ego elite QBs have their own brands and estates to manage, and they want the estate to mortgage it all to get them a ring. The estate managers just won’t do it tho.
doesn't matter how much the fans complain in GB, our board of directors have a history of turning the other cheek, hell Murphy became so wrapped up with expansion around Lambeau and his other pet projects he didn't step in and replace Ted even with reports from inside people that Ted was no longer the same person any more, that is gross mis management, and it was reflected also with the retention of McCarthy, and with MCarthy's retention of Dom Capers a extra couple seasons, so this ship has dealt with Rocky waters for a few years now, it also happened when Wolf retired, and with Mike Sherman to a degree, Wolf told Holmgren we'll never have a GM/Coach again, 2 years later they Gave Sherman both titles, seems the message changes depending on what they want it to be.
so I don't hold Rodgers all the blame here, our FO has been less then forth coming before.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 20:50
by Drj820
Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:39
Whats all in?? Ive pounded the table for a few players over the years that we could and mayne should have got but please what moves the last few years is all in??
All in is AR pulling a brady and taking a cut to get his dudes. Lets be honest here. JS
Very fair point that an all in QB should take less money and get his boys paid to keep the team together, like his center. Great point.
But “all in” with an owner is giving up whatever necessary and consequences be darned and moving up to get Justin Jefferson, not picking Gary at 12 when you have the smith brothers, not drafting Dillon when you have Aaron Jones. It’s thinking about NEXT YEAR and not 3 years ahead.
Now, the packers way keeps us good. Let’s be honest it’s fun to be a fan of this team!
I’m just saying the things would happen with a hungry owner that would make a guy like 12 happy on draft night and not want to leave the team.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 20:52
by Drj820
go pak go wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:45
BSA wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:43
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑04 May 2021 19:53
Why the $%@# does this keep happening to us.
Because the Packers keep screwing up and acquiring HOF QBs.
If the Packers would just follow the bears QB plan...there'd be no more messy separations.
I wish we were like other organizations who had owners who applied pressure to win in the short term so we could still lose but feel like our team is "going all in".
You are pointing out the flaw in the way it works with other teams. I’m just saying the way it is different with a team that has an owner.
Robert Kraft puts that pressure on his team every single year.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 20:54
by lupedafiasco
Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:39
Whats all in?? Ive pounded the table for a few players over the years that we could and mayne should have got but please what moves the last few years is all in??
All in is AR pulling a brady and taking a cut to get his dudes. Lets be honest here. JS
My definition of going all in is not putting us in cap jail or trading the farm for a player.
To me its just going into the season with a complete roster. No holes from the previous season that was a weakness.
How long have we known the ILB position was a weakness? How long have we known we have a hole at one of the DT positions? The safety position was so mismanaged for a while we were forced into drafting HHCD. There were plenty of years we went in the season with poor RB play. CBs were a mess. Pass rush was a mess.
Just fix the problems and have a complete roster. Too often we just dont fix anything, go into the next season, see the same struggles, and put our hands on our hips like "wow wonder why that didnt work." Its just dumb.
And before someone says it Im not asking for pro bowl talent either. But you cant trot out a rookie Blake Martinez and Jake Ryan and expect thing to be ok when the previous year it was Clay Matthews and Nate Palmer/bunch of other bums. There are plenty of mercenary veterans every year for the cheap to help. At least $%@# try.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 20:55
by Drj820
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:54
Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:39
Whats all in?? Ive pounded the table for a few players over the years that we could and mayne should have got but please what moves the last few years is all in??
All in is AR pulling a brady and taking a cut to get his dudes. Lets be honest here. JS
My definition of going all in is not putting us in cap jail or trading the farm for a player.
To me its just going into the season with a complete roster. No holes from the previous season that was a weakness.
How long have we known the ILB position was a weakness? How long have we known we have a hole at one of the DT positions? The safety position was so mismanaged for a while we were forced into drafting HHCD. There were plenty of years we went in the season with poor RB play. CBs were a mess. Pass rush was a mess.
Just fix the problems and have a complete roster. Too often we just dont fix anything, go into the next season, see the same struggles, and put our hands on our hips like "wow wonder why that didnt work." Its just dumb.
Yeah an owner as opposed to an estate manager would have gotten a dang ILB or someone to play next to Kenny by now. 100%
Good point.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 21:10
by Yoop
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:54
Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:39
Whats all in?? Ive pounded the table for a few players over the years that we could and mayne should have got but please what moves the last few years is all in??
All in is AR pulling a brady and taking a cut to get his dudes. Lets be honest here. JS
My definition of going all in is not putting us in cap jail or trading the farm for a player.
To me its just going into the season with a complete roster. No holes from the previous season that was a weakness.
How long have we known the ILB position was a weakness? How long have we known we have a hole at one of the DT positions? The safety position was so mismanaged for a while we were forced into drafting HHCD. There were plenty of years we went in the season with poor RB play. CBs were a mess. Pass rush was a mess.
Just fix the problems and have a complete roster. Too often we just dont fix anything, go into the next season, see the same struggles, and put our hands on our hips like "wow wonder why that didnt work." Its just dumb.
And before someone says it Im not asking for pro bowl talent either. But you cant trot out a rookie Blake Martinez and Jake Ryan and expect thing to be ok when the previous year it was Clay Matthews and Nate Palmer/bunch of other bums. There are plenty of mercenary veterans every year for the cheap to help. At least $%@# try.
my biggest complaint, Guty and Murphy hire a coach who's offensive scheme centers on mis direction, and then fail to get him a key player that makes that scheme work, Ervin was a undrafted limited athlete, but even he was a star till he was hurt, as important as that cog was to the wheel moving up for Jefferson or Ayuik should have been of much higher priority, or one in the 2nd or 3 rd round, that was two drafts from Guty not addressing a player that just sparks MLF's schemes, and would help Rodgers get the ball out quicker.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 21:19
by APB
Yoop wrote: ↑04 May 2021 21:10
my biggest complaint, Guty and Murphy hire a coach who's offensive scheme centers on mis direction, and then fail to get him a key player that makes that scheme work
Makes the scheme work? Exactly which part of the scheme didn’t work? What part of the top rated offense wasn’t working?
It may not have been working to your satisfaction or with the players you felt would have optimized the efficiency of the scheme, but there is no way you can sit here and say they didn’t have the pieces to make it work. That’s simply absurd.
It was the top rated offense. They had the players they needed. No, they didn’t have all-pros at every position but they damn sure had players to make the scheme work. I mean, seriously....
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 21:24
by go pak go
Drj820 wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:52
go pak go wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:45
BSA wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:43
Because the Packers keep screwing up and acquiring HOF QBs.
If the Packers would just follow the bears QB plan...there'd be no more messy separations.
I wish we were like other organizations who had owners who applied pressure to win in the short term so we could still lose but feel like our team is "going all in".
You are pointing out the flaw in the way it works with other teams. I’m just saying the way it is different with a team that has an owner.
Robert Kraft puts that pressure on his team every single year.
And he's the only example people like to use because he is the only other team that has more wins than the Packers the last 20 years.
Nobody brags about the Glazer family when talking about owners. Because from 2003 - 2019, that franchise was an absolute joke.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 21:28
by Drj820
go pak go wrote: ↑04 May 2021 21:24
Drj820 wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:52
go pak go wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:45
I wish we were like other organizations who had owners who applied pressure to win in the short term so we could still lose but feel like our team is "going all in".
You are pointing out the flaw in the way it works with other teams. I’m just saying the way it is different with a team that has an owner.
Robert Kraft puts that pressure on his team every single year.
And he's the only example people like to use because he is the only other team that has more wins than the Packers the last 20 years.
Nobody brags about the Glazer family when talking about owners. Because from 2003 - 2019, that franchise was an absolute joke.
If Robert Kraft had Favre and then Rodgers in GB for the last 30 years he would have fired everyone affiliated with the team 4x over if possessing that talent parlayed into only one ring in the 90s and one in the 2000s. Lots of our success has been due to HOF QB play, not day to say management.
Packers fans get to have a decent year and fun time every year bc of QB play. Yet still, the Glazer family and the packers have the same amount of rings since 1996.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 21:41
by lupedafiasco
Yoop wrote: ↑04 May 2021 21:10
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:54
Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑04 May 2021 20:39
Whats all in?? Ive pounded the table for a few players over the years that we could and mayne should have got but please what moves the last few years is all in??
All in is AR pulling a brady and taking a cut to get his dudes. Lets be honest here. JS
My definition of going all in is not putting us in cap jail or trading the farm for a player.
To me its just going into the season with a complete roster. No holes from the previous season that was a weakness.
How long have we known the ILB position was a weakness? How long have we known we have a hole at one of the DT positions? The safety position was so mismanaged for a while we were forced into drafting HHCD. There were plenty of years we went in the season with poor RB play. CBs were a mess. Pass rush was a mess.
Just fix the problems and have a complete roster. Too often we just dont fix anything, go into the next season, see the same struggles, and put our hands on our hips like "wow wonder why that didnt work." Its just dumb.
And before someone says it Im not asking for pro bowl talent either. But you cant trot out a rookie Blake Martinez and Jake Ryan and expect thing to be ok when the previous year it was Clay Matthews and Nate Palmer/bunch of other bums. There are plenty of mercenary veterans every year for the cheap to help. At least $%@# try.
my biggest complaint, Guty and Murphy hire a coach who's offensive scheme centers on mis direction, and then fail to get him a key player that makes that scheme work, Ervin was a undrafted limited athlete, but even he was a star till he was hurt, as important as that cog was to the wheel moving up for Jefferson or Ayuik should have been of much higher priority, or one in the 2nd or 3 rd round, that was two drafts from Guty not addressing a player that just sparks MLF's schemes, and would help Rodgers get the ball out quicker.
Youre overhyping what Ervin was in this offense. He was a distraction. Just something for the defense to get pulled away and had to honor.
He had 11 receptions for 84 yards, 0 TDs in 8 games played. His yards per target was 5.6. I dont think by any means Ervin made or broke this offense.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 21:43
by lupedafiasco
APB wrote: ↑04 May 2021 21:19
Yoop wrote: ↑04 May 2021 21:10
my biggest complaint, Guty and Murphy hire a coach who's offensive scheme centers on mis direction, and then fail to get him a key player that makes that scheme work
Makes the scheme work? Exactly which part of the scheme didn’t work? What part of the top rated offense wasn’t working?
It may not have been working to your satisfaction or with the players you felt would have optimized the efficiency of the scheme, but there is no way you can sit here and say they didn’t have the pieces to make it work. That’s simply absurd.
It was the top rated offense. They had the players they needed. No, they didn’t have all-pros at every position but they damn sure had players to make the scheme work. I mean, seriously....
I dont think its a fair assessment to say the scheme didnt work when the offense finished 1st in the league.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 22:52
by TheGreenMan
williewasgreat wrote: ↑04 May 2021 16:35
TheGreenMan wrote: ↑04 May 2021 15:53
Yeah, Kumerow was such a need that we only made it to the NFC championship game with a #1 offense.
If that was part of his problem, good riddance to Rodgers.
I don't think it was Kumerow's skills per se that was the issue to Rodgers. I think it was more the fact that he had just talked publicly about how well Kumerow was playing.
I think that would make it worse in my opinion.
Coach can tell me 20 guys played great football after the final preseason game, and you can almost bet that most, if not all, of those guys will not make the final roster. We go through this every year, every year we have surprise guys that didn't make the cut - and we all complain about it - but everyone can't be on the team.
Maybe he should have spoken publicly about Adams in August, so maybe he could have felt good about being right about something.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 04 May 2021 23:22
by Scott4Pack
Drj820 wrote: ↑04 May 2021 17:35
Adams has now liked Naglers tweet that said “don’t forget that Gutey cut Nelson”
Now this is kinda getting into soap opera territory but I think we might be seeing multiple players very unhappy with Gute.
His communication skills may just suck. He may make the players feel less than human.
I know I thought it was poor form that tremendous packer Linsley said he never heard any comms from the org about his contract. Not a “thank you but we can’t afford you”. Not a “would you be interested in taking way less” etc etc. Just left in the dark and then left to walk.
Gutey May need to work on his PR skills toward the guys he hires and fires.
Pro football is a business, but great businesses understand relationships.
I can agree with your point, only to a certain extent. Great businesses to understand relationships. Yeah. Okay. But great employees (of which Aaron Rodgers is one) also understand relationships. It is a two-way thing. As I look at opinions that 100% support Rodgers and place fault on Guty and/or FO, I see no expectations from Rodgers’ side, as if he was slighted and doesn’t need to adult up one bit.
That just doesn’t fly here. Guty could’ve done some things better and he has admitted as much. But where is any concession from Rodgers?
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 05 May 2021 07:07
by Yoop
APB wrote: ↑04 May 2021 21:19
Yoop wrote: ↑04 May 2021 21:10
my biggest complaint, Guty and Murphy hire a coach who's offensive scheme centers on mis direction, and then fail to get him a key player that makes that scheme work
Makes the scheme work? Exactly which part of the scheme didn’t work? What part of the top rated offense wasn’t working?
It may not have been working to your satisfaction or with the players you felt would have optimized the efficiency of the scheme, but there is no way you can sit here and say they didn’t have the pieces to make it work. That’s simply absurd.
It was the top rated offense. They had the players they needed. No, they didn’t have all-pros at every position but they damn sure had players to make the scheme work. I mean, seriously....
OK, make Lafluers schemes work better, as Lupe just said on the stat sheet Ervin didn't seem to make a big difference, however it was enough that defenses had to honor the jet motion, he had a 5yrd average running the ball, he froze the defense, and when he was hurt Lafluer lost that distraction, it affected the offense to the point Guty brought in Austen, who sucked.
now we can't be sure a JJ or Ayuik wouldn't have been hurt, but I like what they may have brought to our game, if Ervin was able to freeze a defense with only 23 touches in 8 games, either of those two would have been given a ton more touches, and defenses would have been forced even more to defend them.
we just traded up to get Ervins successor, so we'll see just how this works out, I expect he'll be a key contributor once he's ready to play.