Packers Huddle

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 09:13**

go pak go wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 07:36

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 04:10
Pro football reference is a poor place to find total pressures, they only count sacks and hits, and not hurries, PFF counts hurry's, which is any time a QB has to move to avoid a hit, so PFR pressure totals are bound to be lower, course I'am betting you know this, hense the reason your brought the PFR stats,
Do you enjoy making things up? Is it an intentional thing to constantly say the couch is red when it is in fact blue?

Why say things that are so blatantly not true? Why spread misinformation when it takes 5 seconds to verify your information?

PFR Stats Table Below. Clearly has Hurries, Knockdowns, Sacks and total pressures.

image.png

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 08:27
then why is there such a large difference between PFF and PFR stats?

Because as I have said in previous posts, hurries/pressures are a subjective stat. QB Hits and Sacks are objective stats. There is no room for interpretation with a sack or a hit. If the QB's a$$ is on the ground and the defender did it...the stat goes up. But Hurries are a subjective stat. What one person says is a hurry/pressure another may say different. And why would this be? Because hurry/pressure is what "impacts" a play or gets the QB jittery...well you can easily see how different people would view that. It's like WR drops. One person may say the ball was never catchable and others will say the receiver dropped it. It's subjective in nature.

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 08:27
nothing was made up either.

Let me enlighten you. It's literally on the same post I replied this string of text to.

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 04:10
Pro football reference is a poor place to find total pressures, they only count sacks and hits, and not hurries, PFF counts hurry's, which is any time a QB has to move to avoid a hit, so PFR pressure totals are bound to be lower, course I'am betting you know this, hense the reason your brought the PFR stats,

This is called making something up. It's literally in the post thread you replied to. You made this up. PFR does count hurries. It's on my snippet. It's clear as day. It's okay not knowing what a stat line is or how different companies count and present stats, etc. That's totally fine. This is a football forum where we help educate and discuss football with each other.

But to make up allegations against Packfn23 to state his sources are garbage and he knowingly is using PFR because you know they don't count pressures/hurries (when they do) was completely false, made up, etc to once again try and win a transactional argument.

This place will become significantly more enjoyable for you when you actually read other people's posts and understand what they are saying rather than think while reading something "how can I refute this to prove a point". It is clear you do not read others' posts which honestly I don't understand. If you believe know everything, what is the point of conversing with others on this forum? You already know it!

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 09:19**

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 08:42

BF004 wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 08:26
How the hell does having hesitancy about adding a women beater to a team equate to being a homer? You are embarrassing yourself… again.
cause 3 years had passed, he made restitution, and was a model player through out college, as I said earlier which you asked me if I was $%@# serious about was the ACL injury the reason teams passed on him, the articles I brought and read seemed to think that was the reason.

so ya, if you still hold that incident against him, and also think the FO did to, then ya, to me thats being overly cautious.

actually I think the FO fell in love with Gary, might have even been before they bought the Smiths, and thats a shame, they passed on a very good DT prospect, could have even slide back to get him, Gary will have to be fanominal for me to forget this idiocy.

You literally blamed the girl for his actions. Honestly, despicable stance. You can be pro Simmons… only now apparently, without defending a pro athlete savagely beating a woman.

You can just say, I can live with it, without calling him a model citizen and use his GPA as evidence to what a great guy he is.

Hell, I’m not even arguing he is a &%$@ person, I’m saying defending and belittling that is offensive, dangerous, disturbing.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 09:25**

I've taken and tutored classes in college these athletes take because the coaches put them in those classes.

Trust me. It's not hard getting a good GPA if the GPA number is what you are chasing.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 09:36**

BF004 wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 09:19

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 08:42

BF004 wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 08:26
How the hell does having hesitancy about adding a women beater to a team equate to being a homer? You are embarrassing yourself… again.
cause 3 years had passed, he made restitution, and was a model player through out college, as I said earlier which you asked me if I was $%@# serious about was the ACL injury the reason teams passed on him, the articles I brought and read seemed to think that was the reason.

so ya, if you still hold that incident against him, and also think the FO did to, then ya, to me thats being overly cautious.

actually I think the FO fell in love with Gary, might have even been before they bought the Smiths, and thats a shame, they passed on a very good DT prospect, could have even slide back to get him, Gary will have to be fanominal for me to forget this idiocy.
You literally blamed the girl for his actions. Honestly, despicable stance. You can be pro Simmons… only now apparently, without defending a pro athlete savagely beating a woman.

You can just say, I can live with it, without calling him a model citizen and use his GPA as evidence to what a great guy he is.

Hell, I’m not even arguing he is a &%$@ person, I’m saying defending and belittling that is offensive, dangerous, disturbing.

I said that because the woman was beating the &%$@ out of his sister, and wouldn't stop till Simmons yanked here off and went balistic on here, she caused his actions, thats why the charges where lowered to probation, and he was shown to be a good person before and after this one time incident.

YOU think this is why the Packers didn't take him, and I feel it had more to do with the ACL injury.

a 18 year old Kid should not be tarnished and ruined for a incident he did under stress as a kid, specially when someone else provoked the fight.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 09:45**

go pak go wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 09:25
I've taken and tutored classes in college these athletes take because the coaches put them in those classes.

Trust me. It's not hard getting a good GPA if the GPA number is what you are chasing.

easy for you maybe, I very much doubt it for a Kid like Simmons or many of these other African American players (tutored)

but thats not all that article said either, I fellow that new him well spoke positively about him, and now it's 5 years later, and the only news we've heard about Simmons is that he's a rising star each Sunday.

as I said if the Packers passed on Simmons because he forcefully defended his sister against some idiotic bitch then the FO didn't do there homework.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 10:35**

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 09:45

go pak go wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 09:25
I've taken and tutored classes in college these athletes take because the coaches put them in those classes.

Trust me. It's not hard getting a good GPA if the GPA number is what you are chasing.
easy for you maybe, I very much doubt it for a Kid like Simmons or many of these other African American players (tutored)

but thats not all that article said either, I fellow that new him well spoke positively about him, and now it's 5 years later, and the only news we've heard about Simmons is that he's a rising star each Sunday.

as I said if the Packers passed on Simmons because he forcefully defended his sister against some idiotic bitch then the FO didn't do there homework.

And I hope he continues to shine on Sundays and leads a great life personally.

And I also know that the Packers had on staff coaches who were at Mississippi State with Simmons and knew him or were very close with people who knew him intimately. I'm not saying the Packers were right or wrong in their decision. But I am saying I guarantee you they did their homework.

I don't know why that isn't a justifiable statement. Luke Getsy was the OC for MS State in 2018. He then was on the Packers again in spring 2019. I am pretty sure Getsy was asked and used his sources on what they all knew on Simmons. I do it when I hire interns. I guarantee they did it for draft prep.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 10:45**

go pak go wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 09:13

go pak go wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 07:36

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 04:10
Pro football reference is a poor place to find total pressures, they only count sacks and hits, and not hurries, PFF counts hurry's, which is any time a QB has to move to avoid a hit, so PFR pressure totals are bound to be lower, course I'am betting you know this, hense the reason your brought the PFR stats,
Do you enjoy making things up? Is it an intentional thing to constantly say the couch is red when it is in fact blue?

Why say things that are so blatantly not true? Why spread misinformation when it takes 5 seconds to verify your information?

PFR Stats Table Below. Clearly has Hurries, Knockdowns, Sacks and total pressures.

image.png

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 08:27
then why is there such a large difference between PFF and PFR stats?
Because as I have said in previous posts, hurries/pressures are a subjective stat. QB Hits and Sacks are objective stats. There is no room for interpretation with a sack or a hit. If the QB's a$$ is on the ground and the defender did it...the stat goes up. But Hurries are a subjective stat. What one person says is a hurry/pressure another may say different. And why would this be? Because hurry/pressure is what "impacts" a play or gets the QB jittery...well you can easily see how different people would view that. It's like WR drops. One person may say the ball was never catchable and others will say the receiver dropped it. It's subjective in nature.

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 08:27
nothing was made up either.
Let me enlighten you. It's literally on the same post I replied this string of text to.

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 04:10
Pro football reference is a poor place to find total pressures, they only count sacks and hits, and not hurries, PFF counts hurry's, which is any time a QB has to move to avoid a hit, so PFR pressure totals are bound to be lower, course I'am betting you know this, hense the reason your brought the PFR stats,
This is called making something up. It's literally in the post thread you replied to. You made this up. PFR does count hurries. It's on my snippet. It's clear as day. It's okay not knowing what a stat line is or how different companies count and present stats, etc. That's totally fine. This is a football forum where we help educate and discuss football with each other.

But to make up allegations against Packfn23 to state his sources are garbage and he knowingly is using PFR because you know they don't count pressures/hurries (when they do) was completely false, made up, etc to once again try and win a transactional argument.

This place will become significantly more enjoyable for you when you actually read other people's posts and understand what they are saying rather than think while reading something "how can I refute this to prove a point". It is clear you do not read others' posts which honestly I don't understand. If you believe know everything, what is the point of conversing with others on this forum? You already know it!

FFS GPG, heres the link 23 brought, ya have to check every player, to find the data, and I've looked at PFR data before that didn't record hurries, just open this link.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/

the expectations when having a conversation is not having to refute what others say, and it doesn't happen unless someone refutes what the other said, I made a generic statement that the best pass rushing teams have good production from interior pass rushers, and that is true.
nothing was made up about that, but you and 23 called me a liar, making stuff up is lying, I resent that because I didn't make stuff up, unless you think PFF did, 23 refuted that PFF article, so basically he called them a pack of liars to.

you call me out, when actually you are the guys not to be trusted.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 10:51**

go pak go wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 10:35

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 09:45

go pak go wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 09:25
I've taken and tutored classes in college these athletes take because the coaches put them in those classes.

Trust me. It's not hard getting a good GPA if the GPA number is what you are chasing.
easy for you maybe, I very much doubt it for a Kid like Simmons or many of these other African American players (tutored)

but thats not all that article said either, I fellow that new him well spoke positively about him, and now it's 5 years later, and the only news we've heard about Simmons is that he's a rising star each Sunday.

as I said if the Packers passed on Simmons because he forcefully defended his sister against some idiotic bitch then the FO didn't do there homework.
And I hope he continues to shine on Sundays and leads a great life personally.

And I also know that the Packers had on staff coaches who were at Mississippi State with Simmons and knew him or were very close with people who knew him intimately. I'm not saying the Packers were right or wrong in their decision. But I am saying I guarantee you they did their homework.

I don't know why that isn't a justifiable statement. Luke Getsy was the OC for MS State in 2018. He then was on the Packers again in spring 2019. I am pretty sure Getsy was asked and used his sources on what they all knew on Simmons. I do it when I hire interns. I guarantee they did it for draft prep.

Getsy may have spoken highly of Simmons, but was over ruled because others, like Mike Smith other scouts and coaches wanted Gary more, who knows why they passed on Simmons, what we know with hind sight is that Simmons in 1 and half seasons has been very productive, Gary, not so much.

I also don't come here looking to fight with you or anyone, your wrong about that, it happens when you or others rip apart my post, I realize some of my stuff isn't balls on accurate, I'am not some 30 year old college grad and obviously not as educated as you, far from it, I'am just a old stubborn as hell Packer fan who knows a $%@# up when I see it, and that was taking Gary over Simmons.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 10:59**

I love that our version of News Around the League is now a debate about a Packers draft pick 3 years ago.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 11:05**

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 10:59
I love that our version of News Around the League is now a debate about a Packers draft pick 3 years ago.

sorry, this could have been over 3 pages back, I should know better.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 11:12**

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 10:45

FFS GPG, heres the link 23 brought, ya have to check every player, to find the data, and I've looked at PFR data before that didn't record hurries, just open this link.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/

Yep, you do have to go into each player. The pressure stat from Pro Football Reference has always included hurries since they added it in 2018. You literally can not find the pressure stats for all players on Pro Football Focus unless you pay an exorbitant amount of money. That renders PFF useless when making overarching statements about the league.

I made a generic statement that the best pass rushing teams have good production from interior pass rushers

NO, that is not the statement you made. I am going to call this out, because now you are flat out lying. This is the statement you made:

in fact, lately, the best pass rushing teams get half there pressure from interior DL players.

nothing was made up about that, but you and 23 called me a liar, making stuff up is lying, I resent that because I didn't make stuff up,

You did did make something up and you did it again when talking about 5-6 of the best pass rushing teams have at least 2 quality interior pass rushers.
Your statement was not generic and it was not the one you are now pivoting to. Resent it all you want, but you are making things up and you are now bold faced lying about it.

unless you think PFF did, 23 refuted that PFF article, so basically he called them a pack of liars to.

No I didn't refute the PFF article, I didn't refute it even a little. I refuted your made up statement you used to try and bring "evidence" that a DL should have been prioritized over an EDGE.

The above is very direct. It needs to be. You need to be called out on this, because it needs to stop. Have an opinion all you want. Prefer Simmons over Gary. Prefer DL over Edge. Prefer interior pass rush over EDGE. NO ONE, will have too much of an issue with any of that. The problem stems SOLELY from fabricating "facts" to fit/back your preference. THAT is what needs to stop.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 11:33**

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 10:59
I love that our version of News Around the League is now a debate about a Packers draft pick 3 years ago.

Hey, even Clay Matthews was brought up!

I am waiting for the names of Ted Thompson and Dom Capers to drop. Maybe even Mike McCarthy!

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 11:33**

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 11:12

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 10:45

FFS GPG, heres the link 23 brought, ya have to check every player, to find the data, and I've looked at PFR data before that didn't record hurries, just open this link.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/
Yep, you do have to go into each player. The pressure stat from Pro Football Reference has always included hurries since they added it in 2018. You literally can not find the pressure stats for all players on Pro Football Focus unless you pay an exorbitant amount of money. That renders PFF useless when making overarching statements about the league.

I made a generic statement that the best pass rushing teams have good production from interior pass rushers
NO, that is not the statement you made. I am going to call this out, because now you are flat out lying. This is the statement you made:
in fact, lately, the best pass rushing teams get half there pressure from interior DL players.

nothing was made up about that, but you and 23 called me a liar, making stuff up is lying, I resent that because I didn't make stuff up,
You did did make something up and you did it again when talking about 5-6 of the best pass rushing teams have at least 2 quality interior pass rushers.
Your statement was not generic and it was not the one you are now pivoting to. Resent it all you want, but you are making things up and you are now bold faced lying about it.

unless you think PFF did, 23 refuted that PFF article, so basically he called them a pack of liars to.
No I didn't refute the PFF article, I didn't refute it even a little. I refuted your made up statement you used to try and bring "evidence" that a DL should have been prioritized over an EDGE.

The above is very direct. It needs to be. You need to be called out on this, because it needs to stop. Have an opinion all you want. Prefer Simmons over Gary. Prefer DL over Edge. Prefer interior pass rush over EDGE. NO ONE, will have too much of an issue with any of that. The problem stems SOLELY from fabricating "facts" to fit/back your preference. THAT is what needs to stop.

PFF does put some articles out for everyone, that pressure stat one has been available on line for a long time, I first saw it about 6 months ago, and went back and brought it during a conversation about team total pressures, which if ya add them up Pittsburg had well over 200 for that season.

what needs to stop is your nit picking every comment, I never gave specifics, simply said that the best pass rushing units get half there pressures from interior lineman, so excuse me for exaggerating my opinion, you had to know I was generalizing a bit simply to point out that edge rushing isn't the only way a team can use to get better pass pressure.

like I said this is why I ignore you, you act like a jerk, nit pick everything apart, and I'am not the only one that avoids talking to you.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 11:38**

Yoop wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 11:33

PFF does put some articles out for everyone, that pressure stat one has been available on line for a long time, I first saw it about 6 months ago, and went back and brought it during a conversation about team total pressures, which if ya add them up Pittsburg had well over 200 for that season.

It's an article, it's not a data set. It can't be used to make the statement you made.

what needs to stop is your nit picking every comment, I never gave specifics, simply said that the best pass rushing units get half there pressures from interior lineman,

It's not nitpicking, it is refuting your made up statement. The best pass rushing teams do NOT get half their pressures from interior linemen. Get your $%@# fact right if you want to support your side. If your facts are wrong, you should be called out on it. That is not nitpicking.

so excuse me for exaggerating my opinion, you had to know I was generalizing a bit simply to point out that edge rushing isn't the only way a team can use to get better pass pressure.

No, we should not have to guess are what you mean. Say what you mean. Or own up to the fact that you were wrong and move on or find different evidence.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 11:50**

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 11:38
It's an article, it's not a data set. It can't be used to make the statement you made.

if you went to PFF you would see those same number of pressures for those players, they took those stats (data) from there records to show how each defense did that season, so those stats are accurate to what they record just as much as PFR, which as you addmited hasn't even recorded that stuff near as long as PFF has, not even close, and as I said I've used PFR before, obviously before they recorded hurries, cause they didn't show em.

just go look at those leading pass rush teams on that PFF rundown, Donald by himself had about 90 pressures, so as I said the better pass rush teams get a lot of inside pressures, that might be a generic statement but it sure as hell isn't wrong.

just keep nit picking away

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 12:12**

if you went to PFF you would see those same number of pressures for those players

BUT WE CAN'T DO THAT!!!! Come on man! Have you gone to PFF and seen those same numbers?

PFF stats like that are behind a pay wall and the cost is exorbitant. Have you subscribed to it? How about you bring the stats like I did with PFR! Novel $%@# idea that you bring the proof of your statement.

they took those stats (data) from there records to show how each defense did that season, so those stats are accurate to what they record just as much as PFR,

I didn't say they were not accurate. I have said this whole time the articles do not show the complete picture but a small snapshot of their stats to go along with what they are talking about in the article. Thus, since it is not the complete data, you can not make the overarching statement you did and use the article to back it up. I can however use PFR to refute it, as I did with the 2020 Steelers. That proved you wrong. I brought actual data that we can all look at because PFR is not behind a pay wall.

which as you addmited hasn't even recorded that stuff near as long as PFF has, not even close,

And? So? Can you get me the data from years past that PFF uses?

I said I've used PFR before, obviously before they recorded hurries, cause they didn't show em.

Again, you are wrong, because they have recorded hurries as long as they have recorded pressures. They have never omitted hurries from their pressure numbers. You again are making something up.

so as I said the better pass rush teams get a lot of inside pressures, that might be a generic statement but it sure as hell isn't wrong.

NO, that is NOT what you said, it was not generic. It was very specific. SERIOUSLY, STOP lying. This is not the original statement you made. Period. You were not called a liar until you actually started doing it in regards to what you originally said. That has only happened very recently in this thread. When you say one thing and them claim you said another, that will be called out.

I want to apologize to the others reading this. I really do. You shouldn't have to sift through this, but I am $%@# done with the made up &%$@. It's gotten so much worse lately.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 12:29**

BTW, it isn't $%@# nitpicking when you make up a fact to support your opinion and get $%@# called out on it.

Let me try to walk through this. Here is the ORIGINAL statement:

in fact, lately, the best pass rushing teams get half there pressure from interior DL players.

Here is the original evidence to support that statement:

T.J. Watt leading the way with 73 total pressures (third in the NFL) and both Stephon Tuitt (71 pressures) and Cameron Heyward (62 pressures) not far behind that mark.

That is an incomplete data set and does not prove your statement. Here is a complete data set that helps disprove your statement:

Outside Linebackers:
T.J. Watt - 61
Bud Dupree - 28
Alex Highsmith - 12

Inside Linebackers:
Robert Spillane - 7
Vince Williams - 6
Devin Bush - 3
Avery Williamson - 2
Jayrone Elliott - 1

Defensive Backs:
Mike HIlton - 6
Terrell Edmunds - 2
Cameron Sutton - 2
Marcus Allen - 2

Defensive Linemen:
Cameron Hayward - 31
Stephon Tuitt - 36
Tyson Alualu - 8
Olasunkanmi Adeniyi - 4
Chris Wormley - 4
Henry Mondeaux - 2
Isaiah Buggs - 1

So let's recap this. 132 pressure from all other positions. 86 from the interior defensive line. That is 60.6% of all pressures came from all other positions and 39.4% of all pressures came the interior defensive line.

Why is the former incomplete and can't be used and the latter complete and can be used? Simple, one is using 3 players to come to a team-wide conclusion. The other is using all players on that team to refute that team-wide conclusion.

That's it, if it doesn't make sense now, it never will, so the half pressures come from the defensive line conversation is over. It wasn't true and it still isn't true.

If you want to continue to make false statements to back up an opinion, you will be called out on it. It has gone far enough.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 12:44**

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑
10 Aug 2021 12:29
T.J. Watt leading the way with 73 total pressures (third in the NFL) and both Stephon Tuitt (71 pressures) and Cameron Heyward (62 pressures) not far behind that mark.

That is an incomplete data set and does not prove your statement. Here is a complete data set that helps disprove your statement:

no it isn't, It simply shows the combined stats, and Watt had 10 more pressure with PFF then he did with PFR, prior to PFF pay wall no one used PFR, and PFR has been around longer then just the 2 years that they've shown combined pressure stats.

I don't pay for data either, but we didn't have to till just a couple seasons back when PFF starting charging for stats, they where good enough then and you brought there data lots, now all of a sudden there data is no good, when there stats are so low compared to PFF something doesn't jive.

if you want to continue this then PM me.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 14:58**

Yoop wrote:if you want to continue this then PM me.

The most sensible statement I've seen in these 3+ pages of non-subject related back-and-forth.

Posted: **10 Aug 2021 18:43**

The NFL just made it official in a memo to clubs:

"Unlimited players can return from a team’s injured reserve list in 2021 and they’re eligible after missing 3 games, rather than 8 weeks, per source. A popular change spawned by COVID challenges stays for another year."

Packers Huddle

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