Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2022

[Pckfn23]

Players by team drafted that started 24+ games and amassed 16+ AV in first 4 years.

[Realist]

Is there a point in there?

Our strategy of trying to draft good players, then trying to resign those good players, hasn't resulted in recent Super Bowls. We should probably try to do something different.

The strategy is sound but executed poorly.

It was the same thing under TT. He and Gute will land some absolute stars. Best at the position type players. The problem is that the rest of the class will be so atrocious it makes the roster unsustainable. When TT was at his peak he was not only nailing his 1st round picks, but he was getting steals in the 2nd, and then finding even greater steals in the 4th and 5th rounds. His problem was his inability to recognize the value of mercenary free agents after the CBA signed in 2011. Shouldn’t be a surprise shortly after that was when we began to struggle maintaining our roster.

Gutey issue is he has had two absolute stinkers of a draft in 2018 and 2020. Even in 2019 it’s starting to look like we are only coming away with just Gary and Jenkins in that one. I’m not extending Savage after what I saw last season in year 3. Comparatively the 2021 was much better and I have a lot of faith in this 22 class. But for Guteys sake he needs to come away with more than just 2 players worth retaining.

The safety position on d is the most important position imo. The dline can help hide a weak backend but not forever. Savage is not a good safety. Amos is average and is declining. Savage is fast undersized and does not tackle. A disaster if resigned.

[Drj820]

Our strategy of trying to draft good players, then trying to resign those good players, hasn't resulted in recent Super Bowls. We should probably try to do something different.

The strategy is sound but executed poorly.

It was the same thing under TT. He and Gute will land some absolute stars. Best at the position type players. The problem is that the rest of the class will be so atrocious it makes the roster unsustainable. When TT was at his peak he was not only nailing his 1st round picks, but he was getting steals in the 2nd, and then finding even greater steals in the 4th and 5th rounds. His problem was his inability to recognize the value of mercenary free agents after the CBA signed in 2011. Shouldn’t be a surprise shortly after that was when we began to struggle maintaining our roster.

Gutey issue is he has had two absolute stinkers of a draft in 2018 and 2020. Even in 2019 it’s starting to look like we are only coming away with just Gary and Jenkins in that one. I’m not extending Savage after what I saw last season in year 3. Comparatively the 2021 was much better and I have a lot of faith in this 22 class. But for Guteys sake he needs to come away with more than just 2 players worth retaining.

The safety position on d is the most important position imo. The dline can help hide a weak backend but not forever. Savage is not a good safety. Amos is average and is declining. Savage is fast undersized and does not tackle. A disaster if resigned.

i could see the argument that Amos is getting old and decline is soon inevitable, but I have seen no evidence on the field that he is "in decline".

[BF004]

Our strategy of trying to draft good players, then trying to resign those good players, hasn't resulted in recent Super Bowls. We should probably try to do something different.

The strategy is sound but executed poorly.

It was the same thing under TT. He and Gute will land some absolute stars. Best at the position type players. The problem is that the rest of the class will be so atrocious it makes the roster unsustainable. When TT was at his peak he was not only nailing his 1st round picks, but he was getting steals in the 2nd, and then finding even greater steals in the 4th and 5th rounds. His problem was his inability to recognize the value of mercenary free agents after the CBA signed in 2011. Shouldn’t be a surprise shortly after that was when we began to struggle maintaining our roster.

Gutey issue is he has had two absolute stinkers of a draft in 2018 and 2020. Even in 2019 it’s starting to look like we are only coming away with just Gary and Jenkins in that one. I’m not extending Savage after what I saw last season in year 3. Comparatively the 2021 was much better and I have a lot of faith in this 22 class. But for Guteys sake he needs to come away with more than just 2 players worth retaining.

The safety position on d is the most important position imo. The dline can help hide a weak backend but not forever. Savage is not a good safety. Amos is average and is declining. Savage is fast undersized and does not tackle. A disaster if resigned.

Curious then why you think the safety position draws the least money on D, even less than ILB, although comparable.

[Realist]

The strategy is sound but executed poorly.

It was the same thing under TT. He and Gute will land some absolute stars. Best at the position type players. The problem is that the rest of the class will be so atrocious it makes the roster unsustainable. When TT was at his peak he was not only nailing his 1st round picks, but he was getting steals in the 2nd, and then finding even greater steals in the 4th and 5th rounds. His problem was his inability to recognize the value of mercenary free agents after the CBA signed in 2011. Shouldn’t be a surprise shortly after that was when we began to struggle maintaining our roster.

Gutey issue is he has had two absolute stinkers of a draft in 2018 and 2020. Even in 2019 it’s starting to look like we are only coming away with just Gary and Jenkins in that one. I’m not extending Savage after what I saw last season in year 3. Comparatively the 2021 was much better and I have a lot of faith in this 22 class. But for Guteys sake he needs to come away with more than just 2 players worth retaining.

The safety position on d is the most important position imo. The dline can help hide a weak backend but not forever. Savage is not a good safety. Amos is average and is declining. Savage is fast undersized and does not tackle. A disaster if resigned.

i could see the argument that Amos is getting old and decline is soon inevitable, but I have seen no evidence on the field that he is "in decline".

Then we all set at safety is what I meant. Amos is actually trending up. Not sure what I was thinking. Great tandom with savage going forward.

[lupedafiasco]

The strategy is sound but executed poorly.

It was the same thing under TT. He and Gute will land some absolute stars. Best at the position type players. The problem is that the rest of the class will be so atrocious it makes the roster unsustainable. When TT was at his peak he was not only nailing his 1st round picks, but he was getting steals in the 2nd, and then finding even greater steals in the 4th and 5th rounds. His problem was his inability to recognize the value of mercenary free agents after the CBA signed in 2011. Shouldn’t be a surprise shortly after that was when we began to struggle maintaining our roster.

Gutey issue is he has had two absolute stinkers of a draft in 2018 and 2020. Even in 2019 it’s starting to look like we are only coming away with just Gary and Jenkins in that one. I’m not extending Savage after what I saw last season in year 3. Comparatively the 2021 was much better and I have a lot of faith in this 22 class. But for Guteys sake he needs to come away with more than just 2 players worth retaining.

The safety position on d is the most important position imo. The dline can help hide a weak backend but not forever. Savage is not a good safety. Amos is average and is declining. Savage is fast undersized and does not tackle. A disaster if resigned.

i could see the argument that Amos is getting old and decline is soon inevitable, but I have seen no evidence on the field that he is "in decline".

I would have to drink a lot while mixing my clears with my darks to see Amos as declining. Hes about as consistent as it comes. As a safety you just dont want mistakes. Its in the name.

[Realist]

The safety position on d is the most important position imo. The dline can help hide a weak backend but not forever. Savage is not a good safety. Amos is average and is declining. Savage is fast undersized and does not tackle. A disaster if resigned.

i could see the argument that Amos is getting old and decline is soon inevitable, but I have seen no evidence on the field that he is "in decline".

I would have to drink a lot while mixing my clears with my darks to see Amos as declining. Hes about as consistent as it comes. As a safety you just dont want mistakes. Its in the name.

What does mixing my clears with my darks mean? Damn I am getting old.

[Yoop]

The safety position on d is the most important position imo. The dline can help hide a weak backend but not forever. Savage is not a good safety. Amos is average and is declining. Savage is fast undersized and does not tackle. A disaster if resigned.

i could see the argument that Amos is getting old and decline is soon inevitable, but I have seen no evidence on the field that he is "in decline".

Then we all set at safety is what I meant. Amos is actually trending up. Not sure what I was thinking. Great tandom with savage going forward.

I thought you said this is Savages last year, and he sucks, I think this is a case where scheme changes show that it's a tougher transition for some players then others, I think ( just my opinion) that Savage played like he was leashed up, we didn't get to see him roam as he did later in 2020 when he was one of the hottest FS in the league, he does get a demerit for taking some poor angles in run support, but he does have very good coverage skills 1x1 and if we play more 2 high ( 2 coverage lbers help you do that) then I expect him to go right back to where he was in 2020, hyjacking routes and picking off balls

if anyone is leaving after next year between these two it's the guy on the down side of his career, not the one on the way up.

[Drj820]

If the weakest position group on your defense is led by Adrian Amos, your defense is in a pretty dang good spot heading into a season.

[Drj820]

i could see the argument that Amos is getting old and decline is soon inevitable, but I have seen no evidence on the field that he is "in decline".

I would have to drink a lot while mixing my clears with my darks to see Amos as declining. Hes about as consistent as it comes. As a safety you just dont want mistakes. Its in the name.

What does mixing my clears with my darks mean? Damn I am getting old.

He’s saying he would have to be very drunk to agree with your original take that Amos is a player “in decline.”

[Foosball]

An all pro safety can certainly raise a defense to the top tier. When I think back to some great defenses like Seattle (Earl Thomas), Pittsburg (Troy Polamalu), Tampa Bay (John Lynch) and Baltimore (Ed Reed), they had some killer safeties.

Ever since Nick Collins got injured I’ve been hoping the Packers find “that” guy. For now I’m more than happy with the current defense. If Savage could significantly improve his game, it would be icing on the cake

Also, who was the safety in the 80’s who always had blood on the bridge of his nose?

[Realist]

I would have to drink a lot while mixing my clears with my darks to see Amos as declining. Hes about as consistent as it comes. As a safety you just dont want mistakes. Its in the name.

What does mixing my clears with my darks mean? Damn I am getting old.

He’s saying he would have to be very drunk to agree with your original take that Amos is a player “in decline.”

Being sober I guess I am just not a fan of Amos as a modern impact safety. In decline may have been my bad. He is exactly what he is.

[Yoop]

An all pro safety can certainly raise a defense to the top tier. When I think back to some great defenses like Seattle (Earl Thomas), Pittsburg (Troy Polamalu), Tampa Bay (John Lynch) and Baltimore (Ed Reed), they had some killer safeties.

Ever since Nick Collins got injured I’ve been hoping the Packers find “that” guy. For now I’m more than happy with the current defense. If Savage could significantly improve his game, it would be icing on the cake

Also, who was the safety in the 80’s who always had blood on the bridge of his nose?

Chuck Cecil would be my guess, hard hitting safety.

Burnett was a decent safety, sure tackler and good in coverage, the Nick Collins, the Leroy Butlers are generational types, few and far between.

[APB]

Gutey and TT are not comparable.

Gutey has a much higher hit rate in the 1st two rounds of the draft and much lower hit rate on Day 3. Gute also supplements his drafts with FA signings really, really well. He doesn't rely on UDFAs to fill holes. He signs veterans to do it.

Gutey is very, very different from TT. Yes we are still a D&D team at our core. But nothing like the TT D&D teams.

Neither one hits well enough in the draft to win.

I mean is there a GM in the league other than Bellicheck who can say otherwise?

Agree completely except Belicheck, too, doesn't even meet that bar.

[texas]

I don't understand why the national consensus treats QBs like Baker Mayfield, Jalen Hurts, Mariota, etc as if they are actually viable QBs. They all sucked and it was obvious from day 1. PFT talking about a massive extension for Jalen Hurts, as if he were a competent franchise QB and not just a guy they drafted to be an upper-tier backup to a QB who at the time was MVP-caliber.

I don't understand the charade, like I didn't understand it for Baker Mayfield and a bunch of other guys. They all go on about Hurts being a franchise guy and everybody just pretends like it's okay. Well, it's not okay. I'm not going to sit here and be gaslit!

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... act-scale/

[Drj820]

I don't understand why the national consensus treats QBs like Baker Mayfield, Jalen Hurts, Mariota, etc as if they are actually viable QBs. They all sucked and it was obvious from day 1. PFT talking about a massive extension for Jalen Hurts, as if he were a competent franchise QB and not just a guy they drafted to be an upper-tier backup to a QB who at the time was MVP-caliber.

I don't understand the charade, like I didn't understand it for Baker Mayfield and a bunch of other guys. They all go on about Hurts being a franchise guy and everybody just pretends like it's okay. Well, it's not okay. I'm not going to sit here and be gaslit!

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... act-scale/

Hurts has proven nothing, but he’s also just heading into Year 3. He very well still could be a very good qb.

I would say baker and Jalen both are never worth a top tier pay check, but they are certainly in the top 32 of QBs, so therefore you have to decide if you want to roll with that, or try to obtain better.

Currently, Deshaun Cosby is better...but brissett is not...so you have a dilemma

[RingoCStarrQB]

I don't understand why the national consensus treats QBs like Baker Mayfield, Jalen Hurts, Mariota, etc as if they are actually viable QBs. They all sucked and it was obvious from day 1. PFT talking about a massive extension for Jalen Hurts, as if he were a competent franchise QB and not just a guy they drafted to be an upper-tier backup to a QB who at the time was MVP-caliber.

I don't understand the charade, like I didn't understand it for Baker Mayfield and a bunch of other guys. They all go on about Hurts being a franchise guy and everybody just pretends like it's okay. Well, it's not okay. I'm not going to sit here and be gaslit!

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... act-scale/

Whaddayalls thoughts on Justin Fields

[texas]

I don't understand why the national consensus treats QBs like Baker Mayfield, Jalen Hurts, Mariota, etc as if they are actually viable QBs. They all sucked and it was obvious from day 1. PFT talking about a massive extension for Jalen Hurts, as if he were a competent franchise QB and not just a guy they drafted to be an upper-tier backup to a QB who at the time was MVP-caliber.

I don't understand the charade, like I didn't understand it for Baker Mayfield and a bunch of other guys. They all go on about Hurts being a franchise guy and everybody just pretends like it's okay. Well, it's not okay. I'm not going to sit here and be gaslit!

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... act-scale/

Whaddayalls thoughts on Justin Fields

Same. He's obviously a bust. He might have a couple good seasons where they win some games but in 4 years they will be looking for a new franchise QB.

[texas]

I don't understand why the national consensus treats QBs like Baker Mayfield, Jalen Hurts, Mariota, etc as if they are actually viable QBs. They all sucked and it was obvious from day 1. PFT talking about a massive extension for Jalen Hurts, as if he were a competent franchise QB and not just a guy they drafted to be an upper-tier backup to a QB who at the time was MVP-caliber.

I don't understand the charade, like I didn't understand it for Baker Mayfield and a bunch of other guys. They all go on about Hurts being a franchise guy and everybody just pretends like it's okay. Well, it's not okay. I'm not going to sit here and be gaslit!

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... act-scale/

Hurts has proven nothing, but he’s also just heading into Year 3. He very well still could be a very good qb.

I would say baker and Jalen both are never worth a top tier pay check, but they are certainly in the top 32 of QBs, so therefore you have to decide if you want to roll with that, or try to obtain better.

Currently, Deshaun Cosby is better...but brissett is not...so you have a dilemma

Hurts won't be a very good QB. He was never all that good, although he has actually improved at every level, which is rare. So I am rooting for him to be a rare case of a QB without any special talent to somehow improve and become good.

But he can't really throw, and he's not dominant. I don't know if people in Philly seriously believe that he can be a franchise QB, because I guess I just figured this whole time they had him there to keep the seat warm until some actual franchise QBs come out of college again (since there were none this year). Like when Pederson was playing him in 2021, it wasn't because he was an actual candidate to be their franchise QB, it was because Pederson was trying to tank, and it was obvious, and why can't people just admit that?

[NCF]