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But I just hate the receiver-only TE model for this offense. I hate it. I think you need a 2-way TE that can line up in-line or in the slot and you need a move TE that can play all around the formation including FB.
Maybe I can sway you with a little Trevor Davis porn.
I'd rather try to improve our WR room than bring in Waller. I won't be mad about it. I won't pretend he doesn't add something intriguing. I just don't really feel the fit is ideal.
Doesn't really stop us from improving our WR room at all, and if anything a guy drawing attention from the D like this would only help it.
Mad props for the Trevor Davis callback.
But yeah, like I said, I wouldn't hate it. I just think that there are other places where he'd be better utilized and there are other players who would better-improve our team.
A second for Waller and a top 60 WR pick and a top DT and we're way better off than we are now. But it's just not my ideal. If we're scouring the league looking for ways to improve, I think we could do better than this. Unless he's willing to play the next two years on his current deal, in which case the money isn't such a big trade-off with the draft pick.
I'm also not convinced this is even a thing. Like Nagler said the teams "have engaged in talks" and Justis confirmed it was part of the Davante negotiations. It might be that Nagler just broke a story about something that almost happened, not something that's still on the table.
Waller had two seasons of 1100+ yards receiving before an injury-riddled 2021. I'd even love last seasons' 60 yards per game... Jermichael Finley was a crap blocker and never cracked 800yds, and somehow folks loooove him.
Waller wanting a new deal isn't great, but the fact he has 2 years remaining would allow us to make it a signing bonus -heavy extension and push a LOT of cap hit into the last years.
Would be interesting how LaFleur would utilize Waller. Seems pretty good over the middle, a mismatch vs LBs, and crucially good at the corner of end zone jump balls. Even if he's a crap blocker inline, he's still a big boi to block CBs and safeties.
I like the fit. I couldn't believe he was 30 but whatever all in right. The options are endless with him. ML would deploy some 3 TE sets and can run or pass depending on the D. 3 tes with both Jones and Dillon on the field and find mismatches. Or waller bobby Pickens and Lazard. That's a nice group to play with.
Waller makes us better for the now. Add some young talent around that and run the ball and the O is good enough. Even if he wants a new deal it's not going to be to crazy of a hit.
Im fine if it's just smoke but excited if it happens. GPG. Swing for the fences
Also, why would the Raiders openly be wanting to trade him?
Kind of made more sense if they felt he was needed to get Davante, but why now?
Under contract for two more years at a very reasonable number, all they have behind him is Foster Moreau who has underwhelmed and is in his final year.
Just seems kind of counter productive at this point.
If the Packers knew they were coming back to the bargaining table for a player they are targeting/really want, why re-sign Tonyan? That part seems really weird to me as they are essentially the same player. Waller might be a better version of that and maybe even a much better version of that, but stylistically, what are you going to do with two of the same guy at that position?
Also, why would the Raiders openly be wanting to trade him?
Kind of made more sense if they felt he was needed to get Davante, but why now?
Under contract for two more years at a very reasonable number, all they have behind him is Foster Moreau who has underwhelmed and is in his final year.
Just seems kind of counter productive at this point.
If the Packers knew they were coming back to the bargaining table for a player they are targeting/really want, why re-sign Tonyan? That part seems really weird to me as they are essentially the same player. Waller might be a better version of that and maybe even a much better version of that, but stylistically, what are you going to do with two of the same guy at that position?
Tonyan's coming off an ACL, and he's currently our only starting caliber receiving TE option. If we have two with same role, Tonyan's on backup salary anyways, so it wouldn't be the biggest waste. And as you said, Tonyan is an OK receiving TE, sometimes even good, but why would we settle for just OK?
Not as concerned about Waller's age because he barely even played his first 3 years, then had two phenomenal years and then had some injuries to deal with last year. He's essentially going into his 4th year. I think he is a player that immediately makes us better and if we can make the numbers work, don't even hesitate to do it...since it sounds like we already had the deal in place anyway.
I would probably feel better about giving 59 to the Raiders at his current salary, would only be like 6.5 million this year and next as of now, than I would around like two 1sts for Deebo.
Waller + Traylon Burks + another decent pick at their $ probably > Deebo
I wouldn't do any of this, Burks will be our Deebo and he wont cry about running the ball, Lazard and Tonyan can give us what Waller would, probably more.
Use the draft on a couple WR's and a inline TE and save the money.
I would probably feel better about giving 59 to the Raiders at his current salary, would only be like 6.5 million this year and next as of now, than I would around like two 1sts for Deebo.
Waller + Traylon Burks + another decent pick at their $ probably > Deebo
I wouldn't do any of this, Burks will be our Deebo and he wont cry about running the ball, Lazard and Tonyan can give us what Waller would, probably more.
Use the draft on a couple WR's and a inline TE and save the money.
Lazard and Tonyan can give us what Waller would, probably more.
as far as I'am concerned we should have demanded WAller as well as slots 22 and 53 from the dirt bag Raiders in the first place, and now they want to fleece us for what was rightfully ours anyway, urrrrrr
I would probably feel better about giving 59 to the Raiders at his current salary, would only be like 6.5 million this year and next as of now, than I would around like two 1sts for Deebo.
Waller + Traylon Burks + another decent pick at their $ probably > Deebo
I wouldn't do any of this, Burks will be our Deebo and he wont cry about running the ball, Lazard and Tonyan can give us what Waller would, probably more.
Use the draft on a couple WR's and a inline TE and save the money.
Wait, so you want instant receiving help for AR and would pass on a TE with realistic chance of surpassing 1000 yards?! Does not compute.
The Packers have literally never in their history had a TE who has had the seasons that Waller has. Finley, in his best season, had 429 yards less than Waller in his best. This is a genuine receiving TE monster, whereas Tonyan and Lazard are OK but you want better.
If the rumor of 2nd round compensation is true, would not even torpedo our chances of targeting the rookie WR phenom or two you so much covet.
I would probably feel better about giving 59 to the Raiders at his current salary, would only be like 6.5 million this year and next as of now, than I would around like two 1sts for Deebo.
Waller + Traylon Burks + another decent pick at their $ probably > Deebo
I wouldn't do any of this, Burks will be our Deebo and he wont cry about running the ball, Lazard and Tonyan can give us what Waller would, probably more.
Use the draft on a couple WR's and a inline TE and save the money.
Wait, so you want instant receiving help for AR and would pass on a TE with realistic chance of surpassing 1000 yards?! Does not compute.
The Packers have literally never in their history had a TE who has had the seasons that Waller has. Finley, in his best season, had 429 yards less than Waller in his best. This is a genuine receiving TE monster, whereas Tonyan and Lazard are OK but you want better.
If the rumor of 2nd round compensation is true, would not even torpedo our chances of targeting the rookie WR phenom or two you so much covet.
between Lazard and Tonyan we have what a stretch TE offers and there cheaper, plus he's 30 and coming off injury, so no thanks, and why are the Raiders interested in peddling him, to me that is a valid question.
My stance on pricey trades remains: I don't think it's the right time/cap situation to do it. If he doesn't need a new deal, this is a different conversation.
And I will preface my next thought by saying OF COURSE a player like Waller (or a Kyle Pitts type) can make a mark on any team in any scheme.
But I just hate the receiver-only TE model for this offense. I hate it. I think you need a 2-way TE that can line up in-line or in the slot and you need a move TE that can play all around the formation including FB.
Receiving-only TEs only serve to take a WR off the field, and while right now we're thin at WR, I just don't see that as a major added value. Like obviously, Waller would make our team better in many ways. I'm not saying he won't. I just feel like this scheme is among the worst fits for this type of talent and is unlikely to be fully satisfactory for either party.
I'd rather try to improve our WR room than bring in Waller. I won't be mad about it. I won't pretend he doesn't add something intriguing. I just don't really feel the fit is ideal.
As normal, you and I agree a lot. This is exactly where I am at.
