The Packer Leadership Conundrum

[Scott4Pack]

The leadership (GM Guty and executives) of the Green Bay Packers faces a huge conundrum. Should it continue to march with some combination of Matt LaFleur and Aaron Rodgers, or should it reshape the team leadership to set a new forward trajectory? (Go ahead and ask the same question to include Guty on the other side of the equation, if you like. But I do not.) Is this only a question about two different types of success? Or does it go deeper?

On one hand, MLF and Rodgers have been very successful for at least three of four years together. They haven’t won a Lombardi Trophy, granted. They haven’t even gone deep enough in the playoffs to meet expectations. But make no mistake. They have enjoyed a great deal of success during this tenure. Only the like of Lombardi himself, Belicheck, and a few others should look down on this type of success. To let go of one or both of them might result in comments around the league of, “What? Are the Packers crazy?” Or it might be met with general acceptance.

For most teams, the kind of success the Packers have had for the past four years is unequaled. Any shuffling of these key players would not be considered. Those teams would be thrilled with ticket and merchandise sales and a satisfied fan base. Are the Green Bay Packers like that? Perhaps the dismissal of Head Coach Mike McCarthy suggests otherwise, especially while Mark Murphy is still employed on Lombardi Avenue.

On the other hand, it is clear that Rodgers is not the elite QB that he used to be. He might still remain better than most starting QBs in the NFL. But he has suffered too many playoff-like losses in the past years to say that he can carry a team once the weather gets cold, and maybe not even when it isn’t cold. And questions abound if morale, discipline, and motivation issues center around the Head Coach and his staff.

So the question on Lombardi Avenue from 9 January forward is, what type of success do they aspire to attain? The firing of McCarthy should indicate that they still insist upon setting sights on the Super Bowl. That said, will this current successful Head Coach and starting QB (and GM if you like) get the organization to that goal?

I hope they are already having that discussion, as they should every year. The legion of available quality Head Coach candidates will begin to shrink any day now, or perhaps any hour now. If the Packers want to get a new coach, they should waste no time in moving on it.

The QB situation is more complicated. They likely won’t be able to move on from Rodgers until he declares his desire to play, retire, or be traded. And with his coming salary, it’s highly unlikely that the Packers will not make a forced release with that much dead cap. Even so, they are unlikely to ever have a viable candidate in a possible quality QB than they currently do with Love.

[lupedafiasco]

This whole regime reacts slowly. We kept TT long past when we should have. Murphy doesn’t have any foresight. As long as the teams put together some successful records that’s ok with him. To me it was clear as day the Packers were going to decline sharply because he put together some bad drafts and made really bad personnel decisions.

Honesty Gutenbumst probably had a career saving draft. He had two first round picks and I think he made bad decisions on both. I liked the philosophy but I didn’t like the players. Quay looked bad all year. Couldn’t tackle well or get off blocks. He did look good in coverage and rushing the passer. Wyatt looks really good but at his age I think that’s a bad pick. Getting Watson, Doubs, Tom, Enagbare, and Toure is an absolute home run of a draft IMO. The reason the team sucked this year is because Gutenbumst was atrocious prior to the draft. The 2018 class only came away with Alexander, the 2019 class should have been way better considering they picked early and had an additional 1st, the 2020 class rivals the 2015 class for worst drafts in recent Packers history, and 2021 is already starting to shape up to look pretty bad.

I had said this pretty consistently in my mocks but the Packers needed to come up with a 2 year plan in which they took there medicine, got rid of their aging veterans in bad contracts, and ate their dead cap. They needed to stop pushing money and regroup to go in on free agency. Instead they kept pushing money in bad deals like Billy Turner, Dean Lowry, Mercedes Lewis, Kevin King, Mason Crosby, etc. there also seems to be no plan. You trade up for Love but you resign Rodgers to a big deal? You draft Dillon but sign another RB to big money? You let go of Adams but had no one ready to step in as WR1? They trade up for Amari Rodgers but then trade for Cobb? What the $%@# are we doing with our resources? You need to find ways to get value from your positional spending in both the cap and draft capital and we have been TERRIBLE at that.

LaFleur needs to learn how to self scout. He has proven incapable of realizing who his best players are when it is clear as day. Packers fans bash the &%$@ out of a Rodgers for not trusting rookies but LaFleur is also hesitant to put them out there. Why was Royce Newman and Jake Hanson in line to start over Tom, or Lane Taylor over Jenkins. Or Dean Lowry over Slayton last year or Wyatt this year? This guys an idiot. Coaching hires. Two bad STs coordinators in a row. Joe Barry?!?!! Just poor decision making that should be obvious but he’s clueless.

This whole regime needs to go. Trade Rodgers. Clear your dead cap and stink it up for a year. Build the offense around Love and give him the best chance to win with talent around him. If he is that guy you’ve got a QB of the future with a regime that hopefully isn’t as stupid as this one. If he’s not you’ll stink it up and get and early pick and at least have an offense a young QB can step into with a ton of cap space cleared the previous year.

This shouldn’t be hard.

[Acrobat]

I'm of the opinion that it's time to move on from Rodgers, mostly because I actually want to see if we have a good coach. I think Rodgers has held the offense hostage and there's been way too much improv and hero ball when actually running the offense could have also spawned some great results. This isn't even a knock on Rodgers, I just think it's time to have a cordial breakup.

I think the real issue is Gutey. Because this is what we should have done a year ago, and now he's put us in an awful financial/cap situation where we can't really build again yet.

[AmishMafia]

On the other hand, it is clear that Rodgers is not the elite QB that he used to be. He might still remain better than most starting QBs in the NFL. But he has suffered too many playoff-like losses in the past years to say that he can carry a team once the weather gets cold, and maybe not even when it isn’t cold. And questions abound if morale, discipline, and motivation issues center around the Head Coach and his staff.

Not sure that Rodgers is above average at this point and he isn't getting any better. He had some good games and some great passes, but there were far more poor games and bad throws ( and non-throws). A bunch of games where he was simply out-played by less talented QBs.

[Scott4Pack]

On the other hand, it is clear that Rodgers is not the elite QB that he used to be. He might still remain better than most starting QBs in the NFL. But he has suffered too many playoff-like losses in the past years to say that he can carry a team once the weather gets cold, and maybe not even when it isn’t cold. And questions abound if morale, discipline, and motivation issues center around the Head Coach and his staff.

Not sure that Rodgers is above average at this point and he isn't getting any better. He had some good games and some great passes, but there were far more poor games and bad throws ( and non-throws). A bunch of games where he was simply out-played by less talented QBs.

It seems the list gets longer too (of lesser QBs outplaying him.

[Madcity_matt]

I think Rodgers resurgence came as a result of Adams reaching full potential. Unfortunately, Rodgers got in the habit of locking in on Adams because he would figure out a way to get open, and now has a harder time finding the open man on a play. I think he has decided in advance who he wants to go to far often.

[Yoop]

Oh please, Rodgers spreads the ball around, give him some talent to throw to, this tunnel vision with Adams has to do with actually moving the chains, and being able to depend on receivers to do that.

we've heard a lot of 2nd and 3rd hand comments about how he gives the dirty looks to receivers that screw up, drop passes, he's not the only one, nothing upsets a QB more then receivers that drop there passes.

Brady and I bet most QB's get upset just as Rodgers does.

My first pass ever from Tom, they put in a package with four receivers—a four-wide group—and they gave me a play. I had never played receiver, but they created a package for me and they’re like, ‘All right, Edelman, get in,'” said Edelman. “I run, like, a hook route and Tom darts it on me, and I tried to run before I had it because, you know, I wanted to do something with it. I dropped the ball. He goes, ‘Catch the (expletive) ball, Julian!’ I went home and cried. I felt pretty (expletive) for like four days. It took me so long to earn his trust after that (expletive) play. It took me like three years to earn his trust. Dog house, not even a paw out.”

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/julian-ede ... 30405.html

[Labrev]

Oh please, Rodgers spreads the ball around, give him some talent to throw to, this tunnel vision with Adams has to do with actually moving the chains, and being able to depend on receivers to do that.

lol why did you bump a thread that hasn't been posted in in a month?


Hmm, maybe Rodgers should have forced us to trade for a receiver he can depend on, like Randall Cobb, who he could have thrown to instead of double-covered Adams.

OH WAIT!!

Also, big diff between Brady and Rodgers, Brady took less to field a better team. Rodgers, the exact opposite, he expects guys to take less to play with him even though he doesn't deliver rings like Tom did. One model was a success, the other, not so much.

[Pckfn23]

Why the month old dead topic resurrection??

[RingoCStarrQB]

Think about the conundrum in terms of the word "trajectory".

When Lombardi burst onto the scene in 1959 the Packers trajectory was clearly WiN WIN WIN WIN WIN (5 titles).

When Wolf and Holmgren burst onto the scene the Packers trajectory lasered toward wins over the Niners in the 1995 playoffs, a Super Bowl in 1996, another win over the Niners in the 1997 playoffs ........ and 2 retired numbers (Reggie and Brett).

The current Packers trajectory is undefinable. Jerry Kramer once used the term "amoeba" to define something (it wasn't trajectory, it was something else). Point being the current Packers trajectory has amoeba like qualities. Us fans have no clue where this team is going, mit odor mitout das drama queen, the pretty boy coach who preaches complementary football with no substance behind the preaching, the pretty boy's coaching staff, and the often misunderstood Gutey Gutester. Its the Munsters and Addams families combined.

The corundum is real. I'm bracing myself for a decade of bottom feeding. Only hope is Jordan Love gets his chance to start and change the trajectory as Brett and Reggie did. Coaching will be the key though, and this revolving door of coaches isn't a good sign either. But we have no Reggie

[RingoCStarrQB]

[APB]

Why the month old dead topic resurrection??

And only to bring up the same talking points that have been brought up in countless other threads.

[Yoop]

wtf, the point was that Rodgers is no harder on young receivers then other QB's are, for 6 months ya'll whined about how Rodgers treated his baby receivers.

I know I shouldn't expect you few Rodgers haters to catch that drift, just keep the hate a flowing

[Drj820]

Why the month old dead topic resurrection??

And only to bring up the same talking points that have been brought up in countless other threads.

its the offseason for the packers, if we are taking a vote, bringing back old threads does not bother me one bit.

[Madcity_matt]

wtf, the point was that Rodgers is no harder on young receivers then other QB's are, for 6 months ya'll whined about how Rodgers treated his baby receivers.

I know I shouldn't expect you few Rodgers haters to catch that drift, just keep the hate a flowing

I was listening to a conversation about the Chiefs today. They talked about how Mahomes got his recievers together for several pre OTA workouts to build chemistry. When the rookies arrived for OTA's they saw the chemistry and practice habits and, it carried over into the OTAs and the entire offseason.

My point is if Rodgers wants to eschew any team building during the offseason and skip OTA's i have a harder time with him being critical when they aren't on the same page as him. He also has a really nasty habit of publicly letting them and everyone know when they make a mistake. He makes sure everyone in the stadium knows the young player screwed up and it wasn't Rodgers fault.

At minimum, I think it would be really hard to say he treated the rookies well, and probably pretty easy to say that he didn't help their development and chemistry as much as he could have.

[Pugger]

On the other hand, it is clear that Rodgers is not the elite QB that he used to be. He might still remain better than most starting QBs in the NFL. But he has suffered too many playoff-like losses in the past years to say that he can carry a team once the weather gets cold, and maybe not even when it isn’t cold. And questions abound if morale, discipline, and motivation issues center around the Head Coach and his staff.

Not sure that Rodgers is above average at this point and he isn't getting any better. He had some good games and some great passes, but there were far more poor games and bad throws ( and non-throws). A bunch of games where he was simply out-played by less talented QBs.

Seriously - if Rodgers is as bad as some are suggesting here because he played like crap to often in 2022 why would any team out there bother with him? Some say he is arrogant and aloof, is going to be 40 in October and has a ridiculous salary he will demand because of his contract. If he is the has-been so many say he is we won't be getting any firsts for this guy this spring. Seattle got a haul for Wilson because he is 6 years younger than AR.

[Crazylegs Starks]

On the other hand, it is clear that Rodgers is not the elite QB that he used to be. He might still remain better than most starting QBs in the NFL. But he has suffered too many playoff-like losses in the past years to say that he can carry a team once the weather gets cold, and maybe not even when it isn’t cold. And questions abound if morale, discipline, and motivation issues center around the Head Coach and his staff.

Not sure that Rodgers is above average at this point and he isn't getting any better. He had some good games and some great passes, but there were far more poor games and bad throws ( and non-throws). A bunch of games where he was simply out-played by less talented QBs.

Seriously - if Rodgers is as bad as some are suggesting here because he played like crap to often in 2022 why would any team out there bother with him? Some say he is arrogant and aloof, is going to be 40 in October and has a ridiculous salary he will demand because of his contract. If he is the has-been so many say he is we won't be getting any firsts for this guy this spring. Seattle got a haul for Wilson because he is 6 years younger than AR.

Because there's always at least one team that is willing to take a chance, thinks they're smarter than the others, or are desperate for attention & fan engagement. It's also not unusual for players to show improvement in a new environment.

I actually expect Rodgers to improve next year, but I don't want him here at his age and salary. It's past time to move on and rebuild.

[Yoop]

young fans want to dump Rodgers, and rebuild and start Love, older fans know from experience that doesn't always work as intended.

Rodgers is still more proven then Love, last years collapse had far more to do with other position decline and injury, plus terrible coaching decisions on defense, fix those issues and Rodgers is still our best option towards competing for a SB, however if the chance to win is your only reason, just look at the last 12 years for the reason we havn't won one sooner, heres some reality for ya, our GM's didn't draft well, lousy defense, lousy ST's and a declining WR position for the last 8 years, they did just enough that enabled Rodgers to get us to the PO, and from one of the weakest divisions in the league.

then I have to sit here and listen to you people hate on him for not seeing several open receivers in games, when Mahomes and the other best of the best do so too.

Packer fans are nit pickers, I'am a what can you do for me NOW guy, I don't cross bridges till I get to them, and Rodgers contract is within our means to keep the nucleus of our best talent, if he wants to stay he's got my approval for sure, and Love can sit another year, f trade the kid, we shouldn't have taken him over Higgens anyway.

I've had my fill of Murphy and Guty anyway, want to start over, start there, this has been a crap fest since we lost to the Seahawks going on 8 years ago now.

[AmishMafia]

On the other hand, it is clear that Rodgers is not the elite QB that he used to be. He might still remain better than most starting QBs in the NFL. But he has suffered too many playoff-like losses in the past years to say that he can carry a team once the weather gets cold, and maybe not even when it isn’t cold. And questions abound if morale, discipline, and motivation issues center around the Head Coach and his staff.

Not sure that Rodgers is above average at this point and he isn't getting any better. He had some good games and some great passes, but there were far more poor games and bad throws ( and non-throws). A bunch of games where he was simply out-played by less talented QBs.

Seriously - if Rodgers is as bad as some are suggesting here because he played like crap to often in 2022 why would any team out there bother with him? Some say he is arrogant and aloof, is going to be 40 in October and has a ridiculous salary he will demand because of his contract. If he is the has-been so many say he is we won't be getting any firsts for this guy this spring. Seattle got a haul for Wilson because he is 6 years younger than AR.

You really don't have to take my word for it - just watch the games. And if you think Rodgers is still a great QB, well, I think your devotion to a sports hero is clouding your judgement. Or you can look at his stats and see his average numbers. But then I suppose you will blame all the players around him or coaching. And if you watch the games you will point to the one excellent pass and assure yourself that Rodgers is still great - and completely ignore the previous 7 plays that were poor throws, missed open WRs, and bad decisions.

[Yoop]

You really don't have to take my word for it

no worry's mate, we wont