2023 Packers Defense Expectations?

[LombardiTime]

I started a Packers defense thread right after the 2022 draft.

At that time, I was very optimistic and foolishly thought I was being realistic about the defense being a top 10 if not too 5 unit.

I like the LVN, Wooden, and Davis additions, but I am less optimistic about the defense overall heading into 2023 than I was heading into 2022.

However, it appears Gute may see things differently. He declared that “Expectations are high” in his presser after selecting LVN.

So my questions to the collective wisdom of this board are:

1) Should the expectations of the D be high?

2) What do “high” expectations mean? Top half? Top 10? What metric(s) should be used to gauge expectations?

3) If the Packers defense fails to meet the high expectations yet again, what consequences should follow?

[YoHoChecko]

If it’s not consistently in the top ten with flashes of brilliance, Barry has to go.

Both of Barry’s two years here the team finished much stronger than it started. We need the defense this year, he has the tools. The team has only one on-paper hole.

Expectations should be high.

[RingoCStarrQB]

I started a Packers defense thread right after the 2022 draft.

At that time, I was very optimistic and foolishly thought I was being realistic about the defense being a top 10 if not too 5 unit.

I like the LVN, Wooden, and Davis additions, but I am less optimistic about the defense overall heading into 2023 than I was heading into 2022.

However, it appears Gute may see things differently. He declared that “Expectations are high” in his presser after selecting LVN.

So my questions to the collective wisdom of this board are:

1) Should the expectations of the D be high?

2) What do “high” expectations mean? Top half? Top 10? What metric(s) should be used to gauge expectations?

3) If the Packers defense fails to meet the high expectations yet again, what consequences should follow?

With such a tenuous offense and kicking game to look forward to, it is imperative that the Packers have a top 10 defense. The last thing we want is for Love to go on an interception and/or brain freeze binge. LaCoach better start scripting plays for the Love bunch pronto.
We'll need to stop the run and create turnovers. Rasul and Zaire should be ready.

[RingoCStarrQB]

What are the Offense expectations? 30 turnovers. Poor game planning by LaCoach. Bad route running. Zillions of 3 and outs. Bad pass blocking.

I still am not sure the offensive glass will be even close to half full to start the season anyway.

[Labrev]

'Hate to say it, but I am not optimistic. Barry is just a bad coach.

He starts the year very poorly, then Matt has to call him out in public and tell him how to do his job, then the defense improves... to being merely average. We have the pieces to field a top defense, but it will be held back by our lack of good coaching there.

Our win over Minnesota showed how dominant this defense can be and how it should look given all the talent and 1st Round investments there. We only got them to look that good for one game, when that should have been the norm. Ejiro Evero got that out of Denver's defense in his first year on the job and a putrid offense that couldn't stay on the field. Barry has no excuse.

I really think MLF keeps Barry around because Barry does what he says, allowing him to have some control over defensive game-planning.

[LombardiTime]

Regarding Joe Barry and 2023, anyone else getting Bob Sanders circa 2008 deja vu?

[Drj820]

Maybe this should be a whole other thread, but this is something that has come to my mind a lot.

We now have 8 projected starters who are 1st round picks on the defense. These are supposed to be premium ingredients to cook with.

Why would we place so much value in getting great ingredients, and not pay attention to the chef?

Myself, i buy cheap food because even if you gave me great food, I couldn’t make it magical. I couldn’t bring the most out of it. Might as well just go cheap and make a decent acceptable meal.

I feel we have put so many resources into the d, yet we haven’t hired a premiere chef.

Think of what the dolphins just did with Fangio. They said “we have an offensive coach, we are going to hire someone on the defense to where the offensive coach never has to think of the defense again, it’s handled”

I’m not sure we have ever done that. So ya, we have great ingredients, I’m not sure Barry is the chef needed to make a meal. I would have either never hired him (which is what I said when he was hired) or fired him last year only to be willing to pay whatever it costs to bring in fangio. We’ve spent soooo many resources in the first round on defenders, what’s 4 million a year to a chef who can make the leagues greatest defensive meal?

[YoHoChecko]

I just want to let our awesome CBs cook! I think they're the strength of the unit and they're being treated like regular-degular cogs in a system. Like they're Troy Hill or Nickell Robey-Coleman or whoever else the Rams had around Jalen Ramsey.

[Yoop]

last year the defense went through multiple problems, or set backs, as they say so goes pass rush, so goes defense, once Gary was hurt we saw a huge decline imho with the pass rush, 2. we saw to many communication problems, so bad in fact Savage basically quit playing and was benched, Alexander flipped out. and Jerry Gray was fired, we also saw early season decline with Clark and Amos, with all the talent on this defense it can't help but be better.

If Barry doesn't have this group churning he wont last the season

[Crazylegs Starks]

Maybe this should be a whole other thread, but this is something that has come to my mind a lot.

We now have 8 projected starters who are 1st round picks on the defense. These are supposed to be premium ingredients to cook with.

Why would we place so much value in getting great ingredients, and not pay attention to the chef?

Myself, i buy cheap food because even if you gave me great food, I couldn’t make it magical. I couldn’t bring the most out of it. Might as well just go cheap and make a decent acceptable meal.

I feel we have put so many resources into the d, yet we haven’t hired a premiere chef.

Think of what the dolphins just did with Fangio. They said “we have an offensive coach, we are going to hire someone on the defense to where the offensive coach never has to think of the defense again, it’s handled”

I’m not sure we have ever done that. So ya, we have great ingredients, I’m not sure Barry is the chef needed to make a meal. I would have either never hired him (which is what I said when he was hired) or fired him last year only to be willing to pay whatever it costs to bring in fangio. We’ve spent soooo many resources in the first round on defenders, what’s 4 million a year to a chef who can make the leagues greatest defensive meal?

I agree. I didn't understand the Barry hire then, and I don't understand it now. You'd think after Bisachia, MLF would finally see how much the chef matters, but no.

[BF004]

Think of what the dolphins just did with Fangio. They said “we have an offensive coach, we are going to hire someone on the defense to where the offensive coach never has to think of the defense again, it’s handled”

I’m not sure we have ever done that.

I guess I don’t get how you don’t think that’s exactly what we did with Capers and Petrine.

[Drj820]

Think of what the dolphins just did with Fangio. They said “we have an offensive coach, we are going to hire someone on the defense to where the offensive coach never has to think of the defense again, it’s handled”

I’m not sure we have ever done that.

I guess I don’t get how you don’t think that’s exactly what we did with Capers and Petrine.

So you think Barry is a chef worthy of 8 first rounders to cook with?

That said, Pettine is a far better DC than Barry.

Pettine was working with Kevin king at corner, Blake Martinez at ILB, no devondre Campbell, and three less first rounders.

Pettine was protecting against the big play all the time. Many did not like for this, but it was necessary for the roster we had. You noticed this quickly with Kevin king in the NFCCG against Tampa

[BF004]

Think of what the dolphins just did with Fangio. They said “we have an offensive coach, we are going to hire someone on the defense to where the offensive coach never has to think of the defense again, it’s handled”

I’m not sure we have ever done that.

I guess I don’t get how you don’t think that’s exactly what we did with Capers and Petrine.

So you think Barry is a chef worthy of 8 first rounders to cook with?

How do you get from my comment to your response?

[Drj820]

I guess I don’t get how you don’t think that’s exactly what we did with Capers and Petrine.

So you think Barry is a chef worthy of 8 first rounders to cook with?

How do you get from my comment to your response?

Guess I was wondering if you agreed with my main point that Barry isnt the right chef for 8 first rounders, or if you were just picking something to be contrarian about?

[Pugger]

'Hate to say it, but I am not optimistic. Barry is just a bad coach.

He starts the year very poorly, then Matt has to call him out in public and tell him how to do his job, then the defense improves... to being merely average. We have the pieces to field a top defense, but it will be held back by our lack of good coaching there.

Our win over Minnesota showed how dominant this defense can be and how it should look given all the talent and 1st Round investments there. We only got them to look that good for one game, when that should have been the norm. Ejiro Evero got that out of Denver's defense in his first year on the job and a putrid offense that couldn't stay on the field. Barry has no excuse.

I really think MLF keeps Barry around because Barry does what he says, allowing him to have some control over defensive game-planning.

IMO the fact that MLF kept Barry makes me question our HC's judgement. This defense last year with all of the draft capital spent on that side of the ball should have been a hell of lot better than it was.

[BF004]

So you think Barry is a chef worthy of 8 first rounders to cook with?

How do you get from my comment to your response?

Guess I was wondering if you agreed with my main point that Barry isnt the right chef for 8 first rounders, or if you were just picking something to be contrarian about?

You gave a specific example from around the league that was frankly baffling to me. Was maybe hoping youd elaborate on that instead of transitioning to an unrelated topic to what I quoted.

[Drj820]

How do you get from my comment to your response?

Guess I was wondering if you agreed with my main point that Barry isnt the right chef for 8 first rounders, or if you were just picking something to be contrarian about?

You gave a specific example from around the league that was frankly baffling to me. Was maybe hoping youd elaborate on that instead of transitioning to an unrelated topic to what I quoted.

Okay. I’m not sure what is baffling around my suggestion that we hire someone for Lafleur that allows him to not think about the defense anymore. All last year Lafleur was speaking to Barry through the media in press conferences. I gave an example of a team that hired someone where the offensive minded HC will not have worry about what the defense is doing.

I would hire that level of DC for Lafleur, especially with the resources we’ve put into that side of the ball.

Barry was Lafleurs own special hire. I don’t know if that was due to top preference or financial constraints, but I would remove all financial constraints and hire someone who is a top chef while working with top ingredients.

If we don’t make that choice, we could be wasting our top ingredients

[BF004]

Sorry, baffling that you thought we never tried that.

[Drj820]

Sorry, baffling that you thought we never tried that.

Tried it once. Guess we should never try it again right?

And again, imo Barry has a lot better tools than Pettine did. Pettine had one young quality corner, very poor ILB play, and one quality interior DLmen.

All of those issues have been addressed in last couple years.

And, final point…Pettine was brought in for McCarthy. Lafleur decided he wanted his own guy. In that next hire, I don’t think Barry has a history of being that guy for any of the HCs he’s served under.

Still baffled that I would want a top chef when year after year we buy top ingredients?

[BF004]

Sorry, baffling that you thought we never tried that.

Tried it once. Guess we should never try it again right?

And again, imo Barry has a lot better tools than Pettine did. Pettine had one young quality corner, very poor ILB play, and one quality interior DLmen.

All of those issues have been addressed in last couple years.

And, final point…Pettine was brought in for McCarthy. Lafleur decided he wanted his own guy. In that next hire, I don’t think Barry has a history of being that guy for any of the HCs he’s served under.

Still baffled that I would want a top chef when year after year we buy top ingredients?

I feel like you are deliberately trying not to understand just to argue.

It is baffling to me that you wouldn’t consider both Petinne and Capers as extremely similar to the situation in Miami which you said you wanted us to do and said we never tried.

Enjoy your day.