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Micah Hyde
Posted: 18 May 2023 16:39
by Captain_Ben
My mind tends to wander during the offseason and yesterday I found myself reflecting on various players from the AR/MM era. One name that stood out was Micah Hyde. Maybe it's been discussed in the past, but with his departure to the Bills well in the rearview mirror, the question in my mind remains- how did Micah Hyde evolve from a competent yet unspectacular player with the Packers to being a 2x Second Team All Pro with the Bills?
Casey Hayward's success with his new team was not as surprising to me- he had the tangibles and it was clear he was on his way to becoming a good NFL player. Hyde on the other hand was a 5th round pick. Wasn't exceptionally athletic. His ascension is and always has been a head scratcher to me. Thoughts?
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 18 May 2023 17:04
by TheSkeptic
Captain_Ben wrote: ↑18 May 2023 16:39
My mind tends to wander during the offseason and yesterday I found myself reflecting on various players from the AR/MM era. One name that stood out was Micah Hyde. Maybe it's been discussed in the past, but with his departure to the Bills well in the rearview mirror, the question in my mind remains- how did Micah Hyde evolve from a competent yet unspectacular player with the Packers to being a 2x Second Team All Pro with the Bills?
Casey Hayward's success with his new team was not as surprising to me- he had the tangibles and it was clear he was on his way to becoming a good NFL player. Hyde on the other hand was a 5th round pick. Wasn't exceptionally athletic. His ascension is and always has been a head scratcher to me. Thoughts?
IMO it was because he realized that being a competent yet unspectacular player was not enough. And so he stopped the time wasting activities that are common to almost everyone in every career and instead spent an extra 8 hours a week improving his body. Plus an extra 16 hours a week working on the mental aspects, i.e. watching film. Not getting the money he expected from the Packers was a wake up call.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 18 May 2023 17:28
by Labrev
We played him at CB, owing largely to necessity, where his skills are adequate but not exceptional; the CB position was perpetually weak for us in TT's later years while we had some solid safties (although in hindsight, we should have moved on from Morgan Burnett earlier and put Hyde there).
Bills moved him to S where his skill-set (strong tackler, nice instincts, ball skills, etc.) could really shine.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 18 May 2023 17:36
by lupedafiasco
This is actually one of my favorite topics to reflect on because it’s such a what could have been scenario. To answer the question there is fault to go around in a ton of areas. Capers didn’t utilize either Hayward or Hyde to the best of their abilities. Both were coming up on contracts and TT in his infinite wisdom took a baseball player who tore something in his throwing arm with his first pick and a basketball player who was too small to play basketball with his second pick.
Those two picks made it so that you just couldn’t keep both Hayward or Hyde with an early investment in DBs in the draft. It’s an ultimate swing in talent in the wrong direction. Hayward and Hyde went on to be some of the best at their positions and still to this day playing at high levels. Randall went on to play where I said all along was his best position at safety for another team and Rollins was quickly out the league. Both were awful CBs.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 18 May 2023 18:46
by RingoCStarrQB
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 May 2023 17:36
This is actually one of my favorite topics to reflect on because it’s such a what could have been scenario. To answer the question there is fault to go around in a ton of areas. Capers didn’t utilize either Hayward or Hyde to the best of their abilities. Both were coming up on contracts and TT in his infinite wisdom took a baseball player who tore something in his throwing arm with his first pick and a basketball player who was too small to play basketball with his second pick.
Those two picks made it so that you just couldn’t keep both Hayward or Hyde with an early investment in DBs in the draft. It’s an ultimate swing in talent in the wrong direction. Hayward and Hyde went on to be some of the best at their positions and still to this day playing at high levels. Randall went on to play where I said all along was his best position at safety for another team and Rollins was quickly out the league. Both were awful CBs.
BINGO. Hyde wasn't coached properly.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 18 May 2023 18:48
by Labrev
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 May 2023 17:36
Those two picks made it so that you just couldn’t keep both Hayward or Hyde with an early investment in DBs in the draft.
Not necessarily; they could have just held onto Hayward and/or Hyde while keeping Randall and Rollins as quality depth on cheap rookie contracts.
I agree it was a mistake to let the H's go in favor of the R's, but I don't think drafting them alone was the reason. Yes, I do think the R's looked good enough as rookies that TT et. al. believed they would not miss the H's, but I think we were also paying a lot of other guys a lot of money at that point, and so we had to pick and choose a lot more.
Hayward and Hyde were simply not valued highly enough next to other guys and seemed to have their replacements already on the roster.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 18 May 2023 18:51
by Labrev
I can kinda see why you would let Hyde walk under the circumstances. It was a mistake in hindsight, but not an egregious one.
But letting Hayward walk (reportedly not even making him an offer) was one of TT's worst moves. He was playing quality ball after they moved him to nickel full-time; erasing guys just doesn't show on the stat sheet.
We could have still used him even if both the rookie CBs were future starters. The fact that they were both busts and we ended up needing him makes it that much worse.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 19 May 2023 06:30
by lupedafiasco
So who on here is Andy Herman because this was the topic for his podcast today.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 19 May 2023 07:13
by go pak go
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑19 May 2023 06:30
So who on here is Andy Herman because this was the topic for his podcast today.
Yeah it's a great episode.
Absolute gross mismanagement, poor evaluation, and terrible luck by TT in the secondary starting after the 2012 season.
Literally everything that could go wrong...did go wrong 2012 - 2018.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 19 May 2023 07:13
by NCF
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 May 2023 17:36
To answer the question there is fault to go around in a ton of areas.
I didn't expect this from you, but it is the only answer. There are plenty of circumstances around this.
1.) 2015 Draft - BIG investment high in The Draft. Was "Packer People" ignored? Randall was always a bit of a turd despite the talent.
2.) Hayward and the training room. Definitely spent more time there then on the field. Hamstrings... ugh.
3.) Sam Shields career ending concussion in Week 1 2016.
4.) Randall and Rollins battled injuries.
5.) Packers never found the best position for Hyde.
6.) Randall became a malcontent and Rollins suffered, what was essentially, a career-ending knee injury.
My take with hindsight factored in: bad picks, horrible coaching/player utilization, bad pro scouting/personnel decisions in 2016 and 2017 offseasons (although, I do think letting Hayward go, at the time, was the right decision). Just bad at every juncture.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 19 May 2023 07:15
by NCF
go pak go wrote: ↑19 May 2023 07:13
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑19 May 2023 06:30
So who on here is Andy Herman because this was the topic for his podcast today.
Yeah it's a great episode.
Absolute gross mismanagement by TT in the secondary starting after the 2012 season.
MD Jennings was our starting safety in 2012. This goes back to Week 2 2011 when Nick Collins suffered a career-ending neck injury.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 19 May 2023 08:34
by LombardiTime
go pak go wrote: ↑19 May 2023 07:13
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑19 May 2023 06:30
So who on here is Andy Herman because this was the topic for his podcast today.
Yeah it's a great episode.
Absolute gross mismanagement, poor evaluation, and terrible luck by TT in the secondary starting after the 2012 season.
Literally everything that could go wrong...did go wrong 2012 - 2018.
Agree with everything said above, but I’d add it was not solely a TT issue - though maybe that is not what you were saying.
For instance, Hyde was a great 5th round pick who lacked speed but had/has superb awareness and ball skills.
I don’t think Dom recognized that Hyde’s best position was S rather than slot corner or much else over his final years in GB. He was mostly cooked after 2010 in my opinion. Sadly, when it came to the defensive side of the ball, so was TT.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 19 May 2023 08:41
by Labrev
LombardiTime wrote: ↑19 May 2023 08:34
For instance, Hyde was a great 5th round pick who lacked speed but had/has superb awareness and ball skills.
I don’t think Dom recognized that Hyde’s best position was S rather than slot corner or much else over his final years in GB.
But again, in the years that we had Hyde, our CB position was in disrepair and needed all the help it could get. We addressed S high in the draft the following year with HHCD, and Burnett was a fixture at the other spot.
So even if Capers saw Hyde's ability at S, it would have been tough to move him from CB given how badly it needed guys who could play there.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 19 May 2023 09:02
by Acrobat
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑19 May 2023 06:30
So who on here is Andy Herman because this was the topic for his podcast today.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 19 May 2023 09:23
by Yoop
Hyde and Hayward rotated at Nickel ( Star) after Haywards injured season, Hyde played on mostly run downs and Hayward on pass plays, and neither could win a spot outright at either corner or safety, that was my impression, what they did after leaving us was either a better scheme fit or renewed dedication on there part, which is often the case when players go to new team
Blaming a coach like Capers, or blaming any coach because a player does better somewhere else is valid in some instances, but the biggest reason imo is the rededication from the players themselves, there all hell bent on proving there last team wrong, human nature strikes a constant, Woodson, Peppers, Reggie, Gilbert Brown, Amos, everyone of em worked hard to improve themselves when they came here.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 19 May 2023 09:39
by go pak go
LombardiTime wrote: ↑19 May 2023 08:34
go pak go wrote: ↑19 May 2023 07:13
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑19 May 2023 06:30
So who on here is Andy Herman because this was the topic for his podcast today.
Yeah it's a great episode.
Absolute gross mismanagement, poor evaluation, and terrible luck by TT in the secondary starting after the 2012 season.
Literally everything that could go wrong...did go wrong 2012 - 2018.
Agree with everything said above, but I’d add it was not solely a TT issue - though maybe that is not what you were saying.
For instance, Hyde was a great 5th round pick who lacked speed but had/has superb awareness and ball skills.
I don’t think Dom recognized that Hyde’s best position was S rather than slot corner or much else over his final years in GB. He was mostly cooked after 2010 in my opinion. Sadly, when it came to the defensive side of the ball, so was TT.
Fantastic point. Gross mismanagement from Personnel dept. coaching staff and training staff and finally luck.
It is really sad. The 2010 secondary was the best in the league and honestly the drafting in 2012 and 2013 could have continued that well into the 2010's. Instead every decision and event led it from the best to the one of the worst in the league.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 19 May 2023 09:40
by go pak go
Acrobat wrote: ↑19 May 2023 09:02
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑19 May 2023 06:30
So who on here is Andy Herman because this was the topic for his podcast today.
He's just a clickbait blogger wannabe until he says something I agree with.
Then he's pretty smart.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 19 May 2023 09:44
by Acrobat
go pak go wrote: ↑19 May 2023 09:40
Acrobat wrote: ↑19 May 2023 09:02
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑19 May 2023 06:30
So who on here is Andy Herman because this was the topic for his podcast today.
He's just a clickbait blogger wannabe until he says something I agree with.
Then he's pretty smart.
That's how I feel about all media members. They all suck until I agree with them, then they did their jobs.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 19 May 2023 09:53
by Pckfn23
go pak go wrote: ↑19 May 2023 09:39
It is really sad. The 2010 secondary was the best in the league and honestly the drafting in 2012 and 2013 could have continued that well into the 2010's. Instead every decision and event led it from the best to the one of the worst in the league.
Charlie Peprah did start 13 games including playoffs.
Re: Micah Hyde
Posted: 19 May 2023 10:45
by Yoop
so Capers went from being a excellent cord to washed up a couple seasons later
what actually happened was we lost star talent, we went whole seasons with position completely void of starting caliber players, key positions like CB, safety, ILB, and when ya figure all the hamstring issues with Mathews the edge rushers was also one of em, no cord can make up for that.
we had a great group of backups for the SB run, Peprah was a great fill for the loss of Burnette, and with Collins and Woodson making sure he was scheme sure he played as well as most starters.
If Ted and our scouts would have been as good picking defense as they where picking WR's Capers would have produced top 10 defenses, that guy got more blame then any cord we ever had but the real culprit was injury and poor draft picks.