Packers Huddle

Rank The Roster: 2023 Edition

1. Jaire Alexander (43%)[+2]
2. Aaron Jones (26%)[+6]
3. David Bakhtiari (34%)[+1]
4. Kenny Clark (50%)[-2]
5. Rashan Gary (57%)[+1]
6. Elgton Jenkins (54%)[-1]
7. DeVondre Campbell (29%)[--]
8. Christian Watson (32%)[+14]
9. Jordan Love (32%)[+21]
10. Preston Smith (32%)[+2]
11. Rasul Douglas (29%)[+2]
12. AJ Dillon (27%)[-1]
13. Keisean Nixon (36%)[+19]
14. Quay Walker (36%)[+5]
15. Romeo Doubs (27%)[+20]
16. Devonte Wyatt (39%)[+3]
17. Zach Tom (31%)[+20]
18. Lukas Van Ness (24%)[R]
19. John Runyan (27%)[-1]
20. Current (xx%)[--]

Percent of vote the winner got will be in parenthesis, position change vs. 2022 will be in brackets.

Here's how this works:

Each day there is a new thread/poll, starting at #1, on down to whereever we get. The whole point of this exercise is to have something to talk about in the lean news months to carry us to camp. Each poll will be open for voting for 24 hours. New threads will only be created on weekdays. Ties will cause a runoff poll. You may vote up to TWO players (a change that was made mid-poll last year, seemed to work well).

Simply voting is not enough!

Post why you voted for who you did and provide a player to add to the next poll (every poll will be a list of 15-20 guys, new players added in bunches every few days).

Here's the thing. There is no criteria. This is an exercise to foster discussion therefore there are no clear criteria for ranking. Who is better right now? Who will have the best season? Who was better last year? Sort of a combo of them all? Do you take positional value into account? It really doesn't matter.

Previous Years:
Rank the Roster: 2022
Rank the Roster: 2021
Rank the Roster: 2020
Rank the Roster: 2014-2019

Myers and Savage

Pretty confident both will be starters this year. Savage has put it together before. Hoping Myers takes that next step and becomes an upper tier C.

Stokes and Musgrave. Both highly probable starters.

Regarding the TE situation, I would not be surprised to see 2-TE configurations with Musgrave being a big slot receiver and both of them blocking on draws and screens and regular running plays. This team needs to run more than they did last season. IMO Musgrave is a full time starter both as a TE and slot receiver.

I have no confidence in Savage. IMO it is Alexander and Stokes outside, Nixon in the slot and Douglas as the deep coverage safety. It could also be Douglas in the slot and Nixon at safety. Savage has a lot of competition for the other safety - most of that competition does not have a lot of experience but someone is likely to step up.

Myers on deck

Stokes and savage

Stokes and Musgrave. Looks like Stokes is going to make it. I think Deguara will get early chances with Love but Musgrave is going to take over and he's going to get plenty of chances as the season goes on.

I'm going Stokes and Musgrave.

established starters Savage and Meyers again.

TE, one of the toughest position for a rookie and people are voting for Musgrave, if all goes well he'll get some run snaps as a inline TE, same with Kraft, but no way in hell Lafleur will trust either to block on pass plays till maybe later in the season, we didn't groom Love for 3 years to get hammered because the TE screwed up his blocking assignment.

and neither of these puppy TE's will be the starting slot receiver, come on people use your brains, you know that lump 3 feet above your lower unit

Musgrave looks good but the pads have not come on yet, TE has a wicked learning curve, and he has not been the most durable guy, which is why we were able to get him in the 2nd (scant production).

The tools will make him a mismatch weapon (or decoy) on Day 1 and there's a lot of value in that, but people think that a guy who didn't produce in college will be the one who bucks the trend of low early career TE production? I could understand it if it were Mayer or Kincaid we were talking about, but it's not.

I'm very excited for him too, but... let's come down to earth, just a little.

I'll agree on the Savage/Myers argument. Both should start again this year.

Savage/Stokes/Myers all in the same tier/category for me. 20, 21, 22 seems like a good spot for them.

Yoop wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 09:13

established starters Savage and Meyers again.

TE, one of the toughest position for a rookie and people are voting for Musgrave, if all goes well he'll get some run snaps as a inline TE, same with Kraft, but no way in hell Lafleur will trust either to block on pass plays till maybe later in the season, we didn't groom Love for 3 years to get hammered because the TE screwed up his blocking assignment.

and neither of these puppy TE's will be the starting slot receiver, come on people use your brains, you know that lump 3 feet above your lower unit

Explain to me please why anyone would ask Musgrave or Kraft to block on a passing play. Unless it is to be a screen pass in which case you WANT every possible defensive player chasing the QB.

I have been showing restraint toward you. And this is your response, a thinly disguised insult.

I am looking forward to your explanation why you would use Musgrave or Kraft as a Olineman or 3rd down RB.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 13:25

Yoop wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 09:13

established starters Savage and Meyers again.

TE, one of the toughest position for a rookie and people are voting for Musgrave, if all goes well he'll get some run snaps as a inline TE, same with Kraft, but no way in hell Lafleur will trust either to block on pass plays till maybe later in the season, we didn't groom Love for 3 years to get hammered because the TE screwed up his blocking assignment.

and neither of these puppy TE's will be the starting slot receiver, come on people use your brains, you know that lump 3 feet above your lower unit

Explain to me please why anyone would ask Musgrave or Kraft to block on a passing play. Unless it is to be a screen pass in which case you WANT every possible defensive player chasing the QB.

I have been showing restraint toward you. And this is your response, a thinly disguised insult.

I am looking forward to your explanation why you would use Musgrave or Kraft as a Olineman or 3rd down RB.

Nobody is expecting him to be killer day one, but since I'm looking at overall value I expect him to a hot target midway to the end of season when we are pushing for the playoffs. MLF doesn't have a choice but to use Rooks if he wants to go TE heavy and Deguara hasn't exactly been run through gauntlet. I expect Deguara to get a lot of early targets but talent sitting on the bench doesn't win games.

I can at least get voting for Musgrave. It's very ambitious IMO, but he has the talent to outplay 20 by several spots.

A one year wonder who was more recently terrible, coming off a very bad injury, and will have a tough time seeing the field to prove the down year was just a slump (Stokes), going Top 20.... honestly may be the wildest selection I have ever seen in this exercise.

Labrev wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 16:10

I can at least get voting for Musgrave. It's very ambitious IMO, but he has the talent to outplay 20 by several spots.

A one year wonder who was more recently terrible, coming off a very bad injury, and will have a tough time seeing the field to prove the down year was just a slump (Stokes), going Top 20.... honestly may be the wildest selection I have ever seen in this exercise.

Why would he have a tough time seeing the field?

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 17:17

Labrev wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 16:10

I can at least get voting for Musgrave. It's very ambitious IMO, but he has the talent to outplay 20 by several spots.

A one year wonder who was more recently terrible, coming off a very bad injury, and will have a tough time seeing the field to prove the down year was just a slump (Stokes), going Top 20.... honestly may be the wildest selection I have ever seen in this exercise.

Why would he have a tough time seeing the field?

Jaire and Sul are better candidates for the two starting boundary corner spots. He's not suited to play nickel, while Nixon appears to have locked it down. That just leaves CB4.

And tbh, if we're in dime, I think I would prefer Savage in that role and to throw one of our many fast guys (but specifically Moore) over the top at FS (I think that could be a really fun alignment with Ford at SS, three fast safeties on the field all at once) before putting Stokes out there.

Labrev wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 21:21

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 17:17

Labrev wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 16:10

I can at least get voting for Musgrave. It's very ambitious IMO, but he has the talent to outplay 20 by several spots.

A one year wonder who was more recently terrible, coming off a very bad injury, and will have a tough time seeing the field to prove the down year was just a slump (Stokes), going Top 20.... honestly may be the wildest selection I have ever seen in this exercise.

Why would he have a tough time seeing the field?

Jaire and Sul are better candidates for the two starting boundary corner spots. He's not suited to play nickel, while Nixon appears to have locked it down. That just leaves CB4.

And tbh, if we're in dime, I think I would prefer Savage in that role and to throw one of our many fast guys (but specifically Moore) over the top at FS (I think that could be a really fun alignment with Ford at SS, three fast safeties on the field all at once) before putting Stokes out there.

Why do you say Nixon has locked down the nickel spot?

While Stokes was not great in the first 9 game sof the season, I attribute that to Barry being so enamored with zone, which Stokes does not excel in. We saw the secondary improve after Barry was called out and that was exemplified in the Vikings game when Barry let Alexander man up Jefferson.

Savage struggles near the line. The supposed fit for the star role never panned out.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 21:26

Why do you say Nixon has locked down the nickel spot?

By default, at some level. He is the only guy we have at CB who seems to have the skill-set to play nickel. Stoke and Sul are boundary corners. Jaire has the skills but may not have the size or durability to hold up there.

But also, he looked good out there last year. Sounds like they are still starting him there so far this year, and he continues to impress. He seems to have the skills for it, good enough size, and the right mentality.

In any case, Stokes would not be a good fit there.

We saw the secondary improve after Barry was called out and that was exemplified in the Vikings game when Barry let Alexander man up Jefferson.

Indeed, and that doesn't seem to bode well for Stokes, seeing as he wasn't there for most (or any?) of it, and wasn't missed.

Savage struggles near the line. The supposed fit for the star role never panned out.

If memory serves, they relegated him to dimeback last season when they benched him from his starting S role, and he seemed more at-home in that role in the limited time he spent there before he was thrust back into Safety action because Ford got benched, and then Savage played better when he returned.

Good for him, but like, maybe he should just be our dime CB when we're in that alignment? Because it might be his best position. And we have enough rangy/fast guys at S now that we can do that without losing the ability to cover a lot of ground.

Labrev wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 22:56

But also, he looked good out there last year. Sounds like they are still starting him there so far this year, and he continues to impress. He seems to have the skills for it, good enough size, and the right mentality.

He played 7 snaps on defense the last 3 weeks of the season... I guess I wouldn't peg his 2022 as a precursor to 2023.

We saw the secondary improve after Barry was called out and that was exemplified in the Vikings game when Barry let Alexander man up Jefferson.

Indeed, and that doesn't seem to bode well for Stokes, seeing as he wasn't there for most (or any?) of it, and wasn't missed

.

Not missed and changed tactics are a bit different. We definitely missed a nickel corner and Nixon was not the answer.

Savage struggles near the line. The supposed fit for the star role never panned out.

If memory serves, they relegated him to dimeback last season when they benched him from his starting S role, and he seemed more at-home in that role in the limited time he spent there before he was thrust back into Safety action because Ford got benched, and then Savage played better when he returned.

Good for him, but like, maybe he should just be our dime CB when we're in that alignment? Because it might be his best position. And we have enough rangy/fast guys at S now that we can do that without losing the ability to cover a lot of ground.

When he was benched he was fully benched and played 2 snaps in 3 games. He got back on the field in week 16 due to injury.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 13:25

Yoop wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 09:13

established starters Savage and Meyers again.

TE, one of the toughest position for a rookie and people are voting for Musgrave, if all goes well he'll get some run snaps as a inline TE, same with Kraft, but no way in hell Lafleur will trust either to block on pass plays till maybe later in the season, we didn't groom Love for 3 years to get hammered because the TE screwed up his blocking assignment.

and neither of these puppy TE's will be the starting slot receiver, come on people use your brains, you know that lump 3 feet above your lower unit

Explain to me please why anyone would ask Musgrave or Kraft to block on a passing play. Unless it is to be a screen pass in which case you WANT every possible defensive player chasing the QB.

I have been showing restraint toward you. And this is your response, a thinly disguised insult.

I am looking forward to your explanation why you would use Musgrave or Kraft as a Olineman or 3rd down RB.

they block on pass plays because thats what inline TE's do and both are inline TE's, sure they may play as a big slot receiver, some, but neither will be starters there or any where as rookies.

and my comment was directed at anyone who voted for Musgrave, not just you, and the JImmy Dugan joke was light bantered humor, and I sure as hell wont apologize for that, and I've said nothing to you to restrain yourself over, WTF is that all about? are you on a please offend me mission so I can feel insulted thingie? get a grip.

I hope Musgrave and Kraft both have a good season, I'am just trying to be a bit more realistic about it, neither played in elite passing schemes, and Kraft who looks choppy running routes faired much better then Musgrave in college, so expecting Musgrave to walk in as a rookie and actually be a starter is asking a lot.

this is Dequara's season to break out, it's when most TE's do, typically the best TE's each season are 27 years old or older, if ya don't believe me go look it up.

sure there are exceptions, but those guys dominated in college running routes from the slot, there learning curve is different then a in line TE

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 23:16

Labrev wrote: ↑

17 Jun 2023 22:56

But also, he looked good out there last year. Sounds like they are still starting him there so far this year, and he continues to impress. He seems to have the skills for it, good enough size, and the right mentality.

He played 7 snaps on defense the last 3 weeks of the season... I guess I wouldn't peg his 2022 as a precursor to 2023.

We saw the secondary improve after Barry was called out and that was exemplified in the Vikings game when Barry let Alexander man up Jefferson.

Indeed, and that doesn't seem to bode well for Stokes, seeing as he wasn't there for most (or any?) of it, and wasn't missed

.

Not missed and changed tactics are a bit different. We definitely missed a nickel corner and Nixon was not the answer.

Savage struggles near the line. The supposed fit for the star role never panned out.

If memory serves, they relegated him to dimeback last season when they benched him from his starting S role, and he seemed more at-home in that role in the limited time he spent there before he was thrust back into Safety action because Ford got benched, and then Savage played better when he returned.

Good for him, but like, maybe he should just be our dime CB when we're in that alignment? Because it might be his best position. And we have enough rangy/fast guys at S now that we can do that without losing the ability to cover a lot of ground.

When he was benched he was fully benched and played 2 snaps in 3 games. He got back on the field in week 16 due to injury.

Even if Nixon is not the answer at nickel and Savage is not cut out for dime DB, it does not mean Stokes is a Top 20 player for us. As CB3 for us last year, he was one of our lowest-graded players, playing so poorly that he basically needs to prove himself all over again.

I am not a doomer on Stokes. If he can recover from the injuries without losing athleticism (not a small 'if'), he certainly has the talent and seems to have the smarts to turn things around. And if he -is- CB3, then he will have the opportunity to prove himself again, in which case, I would certainly be willing bet on him.

And yet, the injury, and reason for doubt that he will be higher than CB4/DB7 this year. And even if he clears those hurdles, maybe we could just end up discovering Year 2 is who he is. I don't think Stokes is hopeless, I just think his risks are too high and too many without any recent reason to be reassured for us to rank him in the 20s. We expected #10 last year. He played closer to ~48.