Reality

[Tooothsome Jeb]

We don't need to take time to debate who is the bigger, smarter, longer Packers/football fan here. The saying goes, a person depends on statistics as a drunk depends on a lamppost. The time for excuses are over. As a poster in another thread bespoke, we have the same personnel on the OL as last year, yet no answers. Watson is glass. Our safeties suck, as usual. No one can tackle. On offense it looks like an unorchestrated jailbreak. Love is two beats behind every play and throws Whiffle Balls past 12 yards. Broken routes, this Musgrave guy looks like his shoestrings are tied together. Deguara is a moron and a wasted 3rd round pick. This is, aside from NYG or CHI, the most hapless bunch of amateurs collected on an NFL field this year that I've seen in any uniform in quite a while.

Either wake up and see what is happening or keep your dork ass cheesehead on and bang your calculator til your fingertips bleed. The ship is direct torpedoed from within. Done-sy.

[bud fox]

Yes based on talent it looks like we are in for some bad years.

[MY_TAKE]

We don't need to take time to debate who is the bigger, smarter, longer Packers/football fan here. The saying goes, a person depends on statistics as a drunk depends on a lamppost. The time for excuses are over. As a poster in another thread bespoke, we have the same personnel on the OL as last year, yet no answers. Watson is glass. Our safeties suck, as usual. No one can tackle. On offense it looks like an unorchestrated jailbreak. Love is two beats behind every play and throws Whiffle Balls past 12 yards. Broken routes, this Musgrave guy looks like his shoestrings are tied together. Deguara is a moron and a wasted 3rd round pick. This is, aside from NYG or CHI, the most hapless bunch of amateurs collected on an NFL field this year that I've seen in any uniform in quite a while.

Either wake up and see what is happening or keep your dork ass cheesehead on and bang your calculator til your fingertips bleed. The ship is direct torpedoed from within. Done-sy.

It does feel better to rant and get things off your chest! This is why we will be sooo pleased when they finally turn it around, whenever that is.

[musclestang]

I'm not going to disagree on how things look at time, but i will disagree on talent. There is plenty in that locker room. Coaches need to get them ready and the training staff needs to get the rest healthy. It's a tired excuse, but it is the reality we're in. maybe we don't have the coaches, I'm not impressed with the internal promotions on the offensive side of the ball and our DC should have been gone with our ST 2 years ago. But it is what it is for now.

[paco]

[RingoCStarrQB]

Hah! RELAX and GO PACK GO with the Guv! Right now the reality is the reality....Duh!
I don't care 'cuz I'm going to the Chiefs-Packers game in December. Maybe Taylor will be there as well. As our buddy Jerry Glanville once said..."This is the NFL, which stands for NOT FOR LONG in this league" and "You could be bagging groceries".

Bogey..........let me know where you'll be on Dec 3rd when you know. I'll check in later via text.

[Yoop]

I remember fans sounding just like the OP back in 1971, I'am sure a few others here do as well, Vince basically handed the HC job to his DC, and Bengston just wasn't up to the task, neither was a team attempting a rebuild, so the brass fired Phil and hired Dan " the Dandy" Devine, so my point is, we shouldn't get compulsive, things can obviously get worse, we need to allow more time for Lafleur to get this young team on track, now is not the time to make changes, we have a offseason to take care of that.

[wallyuwl]

I would agree with Jep the OP. Except I don't think it is a given the Bears or Giants (or Cards or Panthers) are worse.

[Packfntk]

Yeah, it surely is doom and gloom at the moment. There are pieces on this team that I like, but the atmosphere is soft right now and that needs to change. I think we get a high pick next year and that will be nice, but we need to hit some homeruns next draft.

We have been missing so many of our "higher level players" this season with CB1, MLB1, LT1, RB1, WR1, etc. that it is hard to win games with such a young team. If we have those pieces, we probably win the three games that we lost by a combined 7 points.

Cap relief will be nice. Need to stock up with weapons on offense because AJones will be gone in 24 or 25 for sure. We knew this year would be tough, but living through it sucks. That is the reality.

[Papa John]

I'm not going to disagree on how things look at time, but i will disagree on talent. There is plenty in that locker room. Coaches need to get them ready and the training staff needs to get the rest healthy. It's a tired excuse, but it is the reality we're in. maybe we don't have the coaches, I'm not impressed with the internal promotions on the offensive side of the ball and our DC should have been gone with our ST 2 years ago. But it is what it is for now.

Sure there is some talent. But what good is talent in the absence of grit? Ballerinas are talented. At the end of the day there is no amount of talent that will drive a cornerback to stick his nose into the skirmish and square up the pile driving tight end. Talent won't make a QB decide to hang in the pocket and step into the throw before taking a blitzing safety's helmet to the chest. Those things take balls. Look at any great player in the history of this league and all of that talent wouldn't mean &%$@ if he didn't have his balls.

As Aaron Rodgers once said, the spectrum of talent at this level is relatively small. The great teams are the ones with the gritty lunch pail type guys who will crawl through a mile of broken glass to get that W. I see none of that with this team. Since 2010, there have been glimpses, but nothing sustainable. Who will step up and inspire?

[Yoop]

I'm not going to disagree on how things look at time, but i will disagree on talent. There is plenty in that locker room. Coaches need to get them ready and the training staff needs to get the rest healthy. It's a tired excuse, but it is the reality we're in. maybe we don't have the coaches, I'm not impressed with the internal promotions on the offensive side of the ball and our DC should have been gone with our ST 2 years ago. But it is what it is for now.

Sure there is some talent. But what good is talent in the absence of grit? Ballerinas are talented. At the end of the day there is no amount of talent that will drive a cornerback to stick his nose into the skirmish and square up the pile driving tight end. Talent won't make a QB decide to hang in the pocket and step into the throw before taking a blitzing safety's helmet to the chest. Those things take balls. Look at any great player in the history of this league and all of that talent wouldn't mean &%$@ if he didn't have his balls.

As Aaron Rodgers once said, the spectrum of talent at this level is relatively small. The great teams are the ones with the gritty lunch pail type guys who will crawl through a mile of broken glass to get that W. I see none of that with this team. Since 2010, there have been glimpses, but nothing sustainable. Who will step up and inspire?

in the field of battle puppies with balls go home in body bags, and often take others with them.

I know we have a reputation as a finesse team versus physical team, I think thats over blown and a product of the gladiator thinking many of us have had over many years of watching that style of play, mostly associated to the small ball run the pig era of years past.
so I think the changes in style of play leads to that impression, some anyway, a couple years back with a better OL, healthier Jones, we banged heads with the best and ran that pig for 2K, no one called us wimpy, not on offenses anyway.
Defense has become a act of futility, with all healthy we still bleed run yards but have been able to limit scores a bit better so far this season, I've given up on expected improvement, specially with this DC, the only thing that would help Barry is ah, well, I can't say what I think here , but he needs to become a lbers coach in Timbuktu, Mali. to your point I think he is anti physical

[Acrobat]

Yeah, it surely is doom and gloom at the moment. There are pieces on this team that I like, but the atmosphere is soft right now and that needs to change. I think we get a high pick next year and that will be nice, but we need to hit some homeruns next draft.

We have been missing so many of our "higher level players" this season with CB1, MLB1, LT1, RB1, WR1, etc. that it is hard to win games with such a young team. If we have those pieces, we probably win the three games that we lost by a combined 7 points.

Cap relief will be nice. Need to stock up with weapons on offense because AJones will be gone in 24 or 25 for sure. We knew this year would be tough, but living through it sucks. That is the reality.

Yeah, one thing that is easy to forget, we've pretty much been picking in the 20's every year with a couple of exceptions. If we suck for a couple years, and get a couple high picks that pan out and we have another 10-15 years of success, then it might be worth a couple crap seasons.

[lupedafiasco]

Yeah, it surely is doom and gloom at the moment. There are pieces on this team that I like, but the atmosphere is soft right now and that needs to change. I think we get a high pick next year and that will be nice, but we need to hit some homeruns next draft.

We have been missing so many of our "higher level players" this season with CB1, MLB1, LT1, RB1, WR1, etc. that it is hard to win games with such a young team. If we have those pieces, we probably win the three games that we lost by a combined 7 points.

Cap relief will be nice. Need to stock up with weapons on offense because AJones will be gone in 24 or 25 for sure. We knew this year would be tough, but living through it sucks. That is the reality.

Yeah, one thing that is easy to forget, we've pretty much been picking in the 20's every year with a couple of exceptions. If we suck for a couple years, and get a couple high picks that pan out and we have another 10-15 years of success, then it might be worth a couple crap seasons.

Do you trust this front office to pick the right players if they draft early?

[Drj820]

Yeah, it surely is doom and gloom at the moment. There are pieces on this team that I like, but the atmosphere is soft right now and that needs to change. I think we get a high pick next year and that will be nice, but we need to hit some homeruns next draft.

We have been missing so many of our "higher level players" this season with CB1, MLB1, LT1, RB1, WR1, etc. that it is hard to win games with such a young team. If we have those pieces, we probably win the three games that we lost by a combined 7 points.

Cap relief will be nice. Need to stock up with weapons on offense because AJones will be gone in 24 or 25 for sure. We knew this year would be tough, but living through it sucks. That is the reality.

Yeah, one thing that is easy to forget, we've pretty much been picking in the 20's every year with a couple of exceptions. If we suck for a couple years, and get a couple high picks that pan out and we have another 10-15 years of success, then it might be worth a couple crap seasons.

Do you trust this front office to pick the right players if they draft early?

they will just pick a raw talent with premiere measurables that they hope (toss up) they can form into a player just in time to pay him a big contract 3 or 4 years down the line.

So another question is...do we trust this coaching staff to develop a raw freak that needs molding? (case study: C. Watson)

[Backthepack4ever]

And all the teams everyone worships have had crap runs also. Ppl always lean on the 49ers they haven't won squat since mid 90s. They go for stretches of high draft picks, get strong for a few years run (still not winning the big one) then fade away.

KC and the Pats are the only teams to sustain the success and being multiple titles the last 15 years. Starts with good coaching a good QB. A defense that shows up when needed helps also. I agree with the grit, heart and toughness. It matters. So does health

None of this is an excuse for the Packers. They suck right now from the top down. It's not lack of talent it's identity and grit. (I like that word better then toughness). They need to get better at football and basic football. Right now it's a lost bunch of dudes in the same color uniform. It needs to be reckless guys playing as 1. If you get beat get beat going fast and hard. The preseason and week one they played without fear. Now they are being coached by a scared boy.

It is reality. I don't think anyone here will disagree. BUT I do think the ship can plug the holes. No not a title run this year but it's possible to see some life and things to build off of in the next few years.

Change the environment and create an identity

GPG for life. The bears Vikings and lions are always looking for ppl to hop on those trains

[Pckfn23]

In the history of the NFL Christian Watson is ranked 192nd for rookie receiving yards and 21st in TDs and 34th in rushing yards by a receiver (133rd in total yards). Not a very good case study in raw talent that needs years to mold.

[Acrobat]

Yeah, it surely is doom and gloom at the moment. There are pieces on this team that I like, but the atmosphere is soft right now and that needs to change. I think we get a high pick next year and that will be nice, but we need to hit some homeruns next draft.

We have been missing so many of our "higher level players" this season with CB1, MLB1, LT1, RB1, WR1, etc. that it is hard to win games with such a young team. If we have those pieces, we probably win the three games that we lost by a combined 7 points.

Cap relief will be nice. Need to stock up with weapons on offense because AJones will be gone in 24 or 25 for sure. We knew this year would be tough, but living through it sucks. That is the reality.

Yeah, one thing that is easy to forget, we've pretty much been picking in the 20's every year with a couple of exceptions. If we suck for a couple years, and get a couple high picks that pan out and we have another 10-15 years of success, then it might be worth a couple crap seasons.

Do you trust this front office to pick the right players if they draft early?

I could go both ways. 2022 and 2023 drafts look better than the 2 prior.

[Half Empty]

I'm not going to disagree on how things look at time, but i will disagree on talent. There is plenty in that locker room. Coaches need to get them ready and the training staff needs to get the rest healthy. It's a tired excuse, but it is the reality we're in. maybe we don't have the coaches, I'm not impressed with the internal promotions on the offensive side of the ball and our DC should have been gone with our ST 2 years ago. But it is what it is for now.

Sure there is some talent. But what good is talent in the absence of grit? Ballerinas are talented. At the end of the day there is no amount of talent that will drive a cornerback to stick his nose into the skirmish and square up the pile driving tight end. Talent won't make a QB decide to hang in the pocket and step into the throw before taking a blitzing safety's helmet to the chest. Those things take balls. Look at any great player in the history of this league and all of that talent wouldn't mean &%$@ if he didn't have his balls.

As Aaron Rodgers once said, the spectrum of talent at this level is relatively small. The great teams are the ones with the gritty lunch pail type guys who will crawl through a mile of broken glass to get that W. I see none of that with this team. Since 2010, there have been glimpses, but nothing sustainable. Who will step up and inspire?

in the field of battle puppies with balls go home in body bags, and often take others with them.

I know we have a reputation as a finesse team versus physical team, I think thats over blown and a product of the gladiator thinking many of us have had over many years of watching that style of play, mostly associated to the small ball run the pig era of years past.
so I think the changes in style of play leads to that impression, some anyway, a couple years back with a better OL, healthier Jones, we banged heads with the best and ran that pig for 2K, no one called us wimpy, not on offenses anyway.
Defense has become a act of futility, with all healthy we still bleed run yards but have been able to limit scores a bit better so far this season, I've given up on expected improvement, specially with this DC, the only thing that would help Barry is ah, well, I can't say what I think here , but he needs to become a lbers coach in Timbuktu, Mali. to your point I think he is anti physical

Cats and dogs. Those unscathed (pussies) are only in that condition because of the puppies with balls.

[texas]

The reality is that our front office went all in (or at least 90% in) to try to win one with Rodgers, and shifted all of the cap penalties and tough roster decisions and whatnot to this year. This is the year we take our lumps. Next year we can actually start something. Just embrace the suck for 2023. We're not even that bad considering how much pain we could have been looking at. We probably deserve to be 2-4 but we're also a few bounces away from 5-1.

[RingoCStarrQB]

Yeah, it surely is doom and gloom at the moment. There are pieces on this team that I like, but the atmosphere is soft right now and that needs to change. I think we get a high pick next year and that will be nice, but we need to hit some homeruns next draft.

We have been missing so many of our "higher level players" this season with CB1, MLB1, LT1, RB1, WR1, etc. that it is hard to win games with such a young team. If we have those pieces, we probably win the three games that we lost by a combined 7 points.

Cap relief will be nice. Need to stock up with weapons on offense because AJones will be gone in 24 or 25 for sure. We knew this year would be tough, but living through it sucks. That is the reality.

Yeah, one thing that is easy to forget, we've pretty much been picking in the 20's every year with a couple of exceptions. If we suck for a couple years, and get a couple high picks that pan out and we have another 10-15 years of success, then it might be worth a couple crap seasons.

Do you trust this front office to pick the right players if they draft early?

Great rhetorical question Fiasco! Nope, I don't trust the Green Bay Front Office, nor do I trust the Green Bay Back Office, the Green Bay Side Office, the Green Bay Under Office or even the Green Bay Over Office.

Although I do not have any basis for suggesting this .......... for the heck of it you may want to try trusting the Green Bay Oval Office.