I saw this blurb on a fantasy football site today:
Truth or Lie: Protecting quarterbacks is important to the NFL and fantasy.
Fact. Easton Stick, Aidan O'Connell, Davis Mills, Nick Mullens, Bailey Zappe, Mitchell Trubisky, Drew Lock, Jake Browning, Joe Flacco, Tommy DeVito, Gardner Minshew and Will Levis will likely be starters this weekend as we begin the fantasy playoffs. None were starters on Opening Day 2023. We may not like some of the ticky-tack fouls called on defensive players, but how much more competitive would your roster be with; Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, Kirk Cousins, Anthony Richardson, C.J. Stroud, Deshaun Watson and Geno Smith in the lineup instead of one of the above?
I hate to admit it, but there is a lot of truth in that paragraph.
Now, we can debate over whether the NFL is going about the business of protecting the QB correctly - and make no mistake, it's purely a business action as opposed to a "player safety" issue - but you can't deny the NFL product is significantly diminished with players like the above starting for NFL teams during a playoff chase.
That said, what is the NFL doing right? What could they do better?
And yeah, I know, some of those roughing the passer calls....eesh.
If the league is gonna make a point of protecting these players, then I think the NFL needs to start penalizing and fining these floppers, too. That is ridiculous.
Re: Protecting the QB
Posted: 13 Dec 2023 11:01
by Pckfn23
Roughing the passer reviewable.
Re: Protecting the QB
Posted: 13 Dec 2023 11:03
by lupedafiasco
Bull $%@# &%$@. You know why QBs are getting hurt so much? They're protected so much by rules they have forgotten how to protect themselves. They are running down the sidelines to gain extra yards because defenders are scared to hit them. Theyre sliding late trying to bait defenders into hitting them. Theyre holding the ball till the last second to make throws and stand there watching after the pass is made instead of trying to limit the impact of hits.
The NFL has pussified the game so much these players dont know how to take hits anymore so when it does happen its catastrophic.
Re: Protecting the QB
Posted: 13 Dec 2023 11:10
by Labrev
I would first want to look at those QB injuries case-by-case to see if protecting the QB would have even prevented them. Didn't Herbert fracture his finger or something? How are you gonna protect against that?
I can support penalizing some cheap shots and such, but at some level, this is just part of the game.
People want to get serious about reducing injuries, get rid of the helmet and plastics, bring back the leather padding. That hard plastic stuff actually makes football more dangerous than rugby, which doesn't have as many injuries.
Bull $%@# &%$@. You know why QBs are getting hurt so much? They're protected so much by rules they have forgotten how to protect themselves. They are running down the sidelines to gain extra yards because defenders are scared to hit them. Theyre sliding late trying to bait defenders into hitting them. Theyre holding the ball till the last second to make throws and stand there watching after the pass is made instead of trying to limit the impact of hits.
The NFL has pussified the game so much these players dont know how to take hits anymore so when it does happen its catastrophic.
Jesus, did I strike a nerve?
To your bolded hypothesis, only your last sentence has anything to do with what you proclaim as the problem: QBs have forgotten how to protect themselves.
Everything else has to do with what I view as a big part of the problem: QBs are self-aware of their special status and are exploiting it.
I say:
QBs lose their protected status as soon they leave the pocket...AND IT'S ENFORCED THAT WAY. If they want to skirt the sideline for a few extra yards, then they are open to get popped. If they want to stretch a scramble an additional yard before sliding, then they are open to get popped. If they are running around in the backfield extending a play, they are open to be popped.
The protected status is a good thing, but it should also come with the penalty of that lost yard or two in lieu of a timely slide/out-of-bounds move or a sack in the face of pressure. If they choose to extend the play, then they choose to become susceptible to a hit.
As [mention]lupedafiasco[/mention] alluded to, make players accountable for their own safety and I bet we see some of these injuries go away. Continue to protect certain players and it'll be exploited - and then they'll be targeted at every opportunity - which only exacerbates the problem.
While we're on the subject, I have grown so tired of the QBs who immediately look to the ref just as soon as a defensive player so much as breathes on them. Mahomes is terrible about it. So was Brady. So is Rodgers.
I'd also go so far as to penalize ANY player who, during or after a play, actively solicits the referee to throw a flag. Again, those same culprits I just mentioned are the worst with PI calls and whatever they can convince anybody of.
To be fair, it's not just the QBs. I've also grown tired of defensive players flopping, flailing, and/or making a complete production out of the fact they weren't able to make the play on the ball carrier because, in their mind, they're being held. You see it every week in DL players. It's sickening to see players give up on a play and instead start performing for a flag. Ridiculous.
We mock soccer players for being performative artists but, truth be told, the NFL is headed down the same path. And the QBs are some of the worst.
Re: Protecting the QB
Posted: 13 Dec 2023 12:19
by salmar80
There's a point past which you can't really increase QB health by adding more rules protections (without making it a different sport). I think we are close to it already.
Even currently it's super rare for a QB to get injured due to a vicious hit or dirty play. Can't really prevent freak accidents with rules.
The league and fandom simply have to embrace the fact that injuries are a byproduct of the sport. They're not fun or fair, but such is life.
What the league COULD do is allow spring QB schools, so teams would have a chance to develop higher quality backups.
Re: Protecting the QB
Posted: 13 Dec 2023 12:52
by Half Empty
Don't follow this enough to even have a baseline, but how many of injured QBs are out because of the actions of the defenders? Certainly subjective, but if they pulled something trying to cut or landed funny when falling, or something of that ilk, 'protecting' them wouldn't help. Left tackles are important, too, but the Pack can't blame the other team, or even their own staff for not having our best one out there.
Re: Protecting the QB
Posted: 13 Dec 2023 13:05
by Pckfn23
A very abnormal year when it comes to QB injuries. Can rules or lack there of prevent them?
Personally I can't say that any are because of rules or lack there of. Maybe the only one that could count as the "pussification" of football is Richardson...
Re: Protecting the QB
Posted: 13 Dec 2023 13:21
by Yoop
Increased ability to design pass rush is the biggest culprit to me, todays defenses are scheming free rusher more then ever before, bringing 5 man rush packages, exotic blitzes, producing jarring hits on the QB, we saw Lafleur design blocking to limit that possibility, if he can do it so can other OC's.
the cost of talent these days prohibits cheap hit football, everyone says let em play till there QB has a season or career ending injury, when a defender doesn't let up, and drives the QB into the ground as Nixon did to Mahomes, I want a flag thrown, every time.
when I see a blind side hit on a defenseless player I want a ejection, my first concern with any of this is player safety, fans don't buy tickets to watch backups play
todays game is like the railroad, (Canadian central at least) years ago a bum could jump on freight car with ease miles out of the station, today that train is at top speed before the last care even leaves the station, same with football, now days players are traveling so fast, they can run that train down any where along it's route, (well maybe just Tyreek Hill)
I like trains haha
my point is that I wish the rules we do have to protect players where better enforced, but officiating is so discretionary now, almost zero consistency any more, what appears to be accidental, no hands to the face, basically a simple knockdown is a 15 yrd unsportsmanlike conduct call, or roughing, same thing.
hate to say it but the sooner we move officiation to AI, and robots the safer it will be for the players and better for the game.
Increased ability to design pass rush is the biggest culprit to me, todays defenses are scheming free rusher more then ever before, bringing 5 man rush packages, exotic blitzes, producing jarring hits on the QB, we saw Lafleur design blocking to limit that possibility, if he can do it so can other OC's.
the cost of talent these days prohibits cheap hit football, everyone says let em play till there QB has a season or career ending injury, when a defender doesn't let up, and drives the QB into the ground as Nixon did to Mahomes, I want a flag thrown, every time.
when I see a blind side hit on a defenseless player I want a ejection, my first concern with any of this is player safety, fans don't buy tickets to watch backups play
todays game is like the railroad, (Canadian central at least) years ago a bum could jump on freight car with ease miles out of the station, today that train is at top speed before the last care even leaves the station, same with football, now days players are traveling so fast, they can run that train down any where along it's route, (well maybe just Tyreek Hill)
I like trains haha
my point is that I wish the rules we do have to protect players where better enforced, but officiating is so discretionary now, almost zero consistency any more, what appears to be accidental, no hands to the face, basically a simple knockdown is a 15 yrd unsportsmanlike conduct call, or roughing, same thing.
hate to say it but the sooner we move officiation to AI, and robots the safer it will be for the players and better for the game.
we should ship all officials to the Gaza strip
AI is nowhere near ready to officiate games. On top of that if they follow every rule letter to the law it will be flag fests. Refs need to be human IMO. The problem is they arent reviewing their own &%$@ calls or looking up at scoreboard replays to fix their calls. And we have New York who is supposed to step in when things are egregious but they dont do &%$@ either and instead back up the bull &%$@ calls to avoid scrutiny of their poor officials.
Re: Protecting the QB
Posted: 13 Dec 2023 13:29
by musclestang
QBs today take a tenth of the beatings they did just back in the 90’s even.
Can’t change the game too much and still call it football.
Personally I can't say that any are because of rules or lack there of. Maybe the only one that could count as the "pussification" of football is Richardson...
Thanks for collecting these:
- Cousins: injured before contact, defender was super gentle with him after injury. Rules change wouldn't help.
- AR: 100% clean takedown, old man's achilles just popped. Rules change wouldn't help.
- Herbert: Finger hit incidentally due to throwing motion. Tackled about as gently as you can be. Rules change wouldn't help.
- Richardson: Became a rusher and didn't slide. Clean tackle. Only rules change that would help would be to prohibit QBs to rush the ball.
- Murray: Non-contact injury. Only rules change that would help would be prohibiting QBs to rush the ball.
- Fields: Clean tackle. Rules change wouldn't help.
I guess, if we wanted a new sport, one could make 2-hand tag be equal to a sack, forbit defenders from tackling the QB at all, and forbid QB from rushing with the football. I would not watch it, but to each their own.
Re: Protecting the QB
Posted: 13 Dec 2023 14:04
by Drj820
the problem is the CBA doesnt allow for much practice time and the OLs arent being developed and pass protection across the league sucks.
That...and it used to be that you needed to be tough to play qb, as well as be able to throw.
Now you need to be an athlete, as well as throw.
Well athletes can get hurt at a higher rate than tough statues
Re: Protecting the QB
Posted: 13 Dec 2023 18:35
by APB
Speaking of rule changes due to “player safety”…
When discussing the hip-drop tackle, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said, “We all should work to get that out of the game.”
The hip-drop tackle has been a point of contention this season, with injuries to major players, like Ravens TE Mark Andrews, coming as a result of the tackling technique. At the owners meetings, Goodell emphasized that the hip-drop tackle could cause major injuries and should be worked out of the game. He also discussed the QB tush-push technique, primarily used by the Philadelphia Eagles, but said he does not yet have a stance on it.
Pretty soon, this game we know as football will be unrecognizable.
Re: Protecting the QB
Posted: 14 Dec 2023 06:01
by TheSkeptic
After 5 yards past the LOS, a QB should have no protection that a RB does not have.
No fouls should be called on a defensive player hitting the QB while he is throwing or immediately after wards (momentum of the defensive player) except face mask. Driving the QB into the ground if he still has the ball should be legal.
Deliberately throwing the ball out of bounds should always be a foul resulting in 10 yards and loss of down.
And yes, all helmets should be padded on the outside.
When discussing the hip-drop tackle, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said, “We all should work to get that out of the game.”
The hip-drop tackle has been a point of contention this season, with injuries to major players, like Ravens TE Mark Andrews, coming as a result of the tackling technique. At the owners meetings, Goodell emphasized that the hip-drop tackle could cause major injuries and should be worked out of the game. He also discussed the QB tush-push technique, primarily used by the Philadelphia Eagles, but said he does not yet have a stance on it.
Pretty soon, this game we know as football will be unrecognizable.
we outlaw the horse collar, the hip drop has basically the same affect of buckling the legs, which increases the likely hood of leg or foot injury.
again better enforcement of the rules we do have with several additions like the hip drop isn't going to turn this game into flag football.
I want to watch the best athletes play, not a bunch of backups, specially so with QB's
the problem is the CBA doesnt allow for much practice time and the OLs arent being developed and pass protection across the league sucks.
That...and it used to be that you needed to be tough to play qb, as well as be able to throw.
Now you need to be an athlete, as well as throw.
Well athletes can get hurt at a higher rate than tough statues
right.
reality is this game flat out doesn't work minus QB's, that was just as true in the gladiator days as it is now, no one wants to see simply touching the QB to draw a penalty, but I'd rather error to provide the needed protection rather then have to play Sean Clifford.
When discussing the hip-drop tackle, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said, “We all should work to get that out of the game.”
The hip-drop tackle has been a point of contention this season, with injuries to major players, like Ravens TE Mark Andrews, coming as a result of the tackling technique. At the owners meetings, Goodell emphasized that the hip-drop tackle could cause major injuries and should be worked out of the game. He also discussed the QB tush-push technique, primarily used by the Philadelphia Eagles, but said he does not yet have a stance on it.
Pretty soon, this game we know as football will be unrecognizable.
we outlaw the horse collar, the hip drop has basically the same affect of buckling the legs, which increases the likely hood of leg or foot injury.
again better enforcement of the rules we do have with several additions like the hip drop isn't going to turn this game into flag football.
I want to watch the best athletes play, not a bunch of backups, specially so with QB's
I'd say a major part of the discussion is "what game do you want to see them play?"
Re: Protecting the QB
Posted: 14 Dec 2023 10:37
by lupedafiasco
I missed the "Jacked Up" days of the NFL. Right now defense is pretty boring the watch. Anytime I actually get up out of my seat for something flashy is when the offense does something exciting. Big catches or big runs are about it. I used to see Brian Dawkins or Sean Taylor lay someone into next week and Id stand up and give the stank face like I smelt a bad fart while screaming "OOOOOOOHHHHHHWEEEE!"
Defense has been so neutered and it gets worse and worse every year.
I missed the "Jacked Up" days of the NFL. Right now defense is pretty boring the watch. Anytime I actually get up out of my seat for something flashy is when the offense does something exciting. Big catches or big runs are about it. I used to see Brian Dawkins or Sean Taylor lay someone into next week and Id stand up and give the stank face like I smelt a bad fart while screaming "OOOOOOOHHHHHHWEEEE!"
Defense has been so neutered and it gets worse and worse every year.
You'd have loved Chuck Cecil. Dude was a human missile wearing a green and gold uniform. Wasn't terribly good in coverage but that hombre could lay some violence down on the field.
