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Tom had a 10/10 RAS for Center prospects, had the best athletic testing in NFL Combine history for a C (since they started testing it). He is athletic enough to face the top EDGE guys at RT, so you do not worry to much about him against inside pass-rushers, and in the run, that athleticism to block in space is a huge asset.
The biggest drawback with Tom was he came into the NFL pretty undersized, but he put on weight before the start of last season, and looked about the same size as Myers when they stand next to each other. He is now at a size where he can take on the bigger DTs and not even need much help.
He has also excelled at every OL spot where we have put him, so that implies a level of savvy that you need from the C.
It takes a lot for any IOL to be inducted into the HOF. Odds are Tom will not be good enough to be one of the rare few. That said, can he be a perennial All-Pro guy at C? I definitely can see it.
a 10/10 ras testing at the combine means what,? that he practiced hard to do well at the drills, seriously that stuff means absolutely squat Buddy.
Well considering he is our best offensive linemen I think athletic testing is beyond, "he just practiced the drills" at this point.
Come on dude. What was the point of bashing a great athlete who has indeed proved it his first two years in the league? Quite literally arguing for argument sake.
Tom had a 10/10 RAS for Center prospects, had the best athletic testing in NFL Combine history for a C (since they started testing it). He is athletic enough to face the top EDGE guys at RT, so you do not worry to much about him against inside pass-rushers, and in the run, that athleticism to block in space is a huge asset.
The biggest drawback with Tom was he came into the NFL pretty undersized, but he put on weight before the start of last season, and looked about the same size as Myers when they stand next to each other. He is now at a size where he can take on the bigger DTs and not even need much help.
He has also excelled at every OL spot where we have put him, so that implies a level of savvy that you need from the C.
It takes a lot for any IOL to be inducted into the HOF. Odds are Tom will not be good enough to be one of the rare few. That said, can he be a perennial All-Pro guy at C? I definitely can see it.
a 10/10 ras testing at the combine means what,? that he practiced hard to do well at the drills, seriously that stuff means absolutely squat Buddy.
Well considering he is our best offensive linemen I think athletic testing is beyond, "he just practiced the drills" at this point.
Come on dude. What was the point of bashing a great athlete who has indeed proved it his first two years in the league? Quite literally arguing for argument sake.
my argument is moving a very good tackle to center where he will surely make far less money, and will hit UFA as a possible result.
my argument is not recognizing that Walker doesn't have a kick step and is a inconsistent blocker, can't close the back door, which forces Love to move up and left to avoid him, robbing him of concentration down field.
I have my doubts that Walker is even a starting RT for us this season, seriously Love is the guy most responsible for his success imo
a 10/10 ras testing at the combine means what,? that he practiced hard to do well at the drills, seriously that stuff means absolutely squat Buddy.
Well considering he is our best offensive linemen I think athletic testing is beyond, "he just practiced the drills" at this point.
Come on dude. What was the point of bashing a great athlete who has indeed proved it his first two years in the league? Quite literally arguing for argument sake.
my argument is moving a very good tackle to center where he will surely make far less money, and will hit UFA as a possible result.
my argument is not recognizing that Walker doesn't have a kick step and is a inconsistent blocker, can't close the back door, which forces Love to move up and left to avoid him, robbing him of concentration down field.
I have my doubts that Walker is even a starting RT for us this season, seriously Love is the guy most responsible for his success imo
What does Walker have to do with Zach Tom's RAS and going to center?
I do believe we need to add at least 1 more talent add on the Oline. Not development talent, but legit talent. Whether he is the starter or 6th Olineman...we need one.
There are tons of tackles in this draft. There are also tons of IOL in that late Rd 1 - Rd 2 area. The beauty about Tom is you can keep him at RT if you draft an IOL or can push him inside to compete at Center and RT if you draft a tackle.
I think Tom absolutely crushes Myers in a center competition. But admittedly I have never had a high opinion of Meyers.
I do believe we need to add at least 1 more talent add on the Oline. Not development talent, but legit talent. Whether he is the starter or 6th Olineman...we need one.
There are tons of tackles in this draft. There are also tons of IOL in that late Rd 1 - Rd 2 area. The beauty about Tom is you can keep him at RT if you draft an IOL or can push him inside to compete at Center and RT if you draft a tackle.
I think Tom absolutely crushes Myers in a center competition. But admittedly I have never had a high opinion of Meyers.
I think OL might be a big focus for Gute this draft. It's a good class and it's pretty much the only position of need on offense apart from RB2.
Protecting Love is essential. And honestly I'd be happy to see 3 positions upgraded. Myers and Rhyan are mediocre. We shouldn't be looking to settle for that level of play if we're contending for a SB. Walker is a 7th rounder who showed great promise and played well.
But for me, those three guys should be competitive backups not automatic picks for the starting line up. Plus our current 6th best OL is Royce Newman. Caleb Jones and Tenuta are interesting development OTs but we're not really that deep now we've lost Runyan and Nijman.
If Gute took 4 OL in this draft I wouldn't mind it.
Well considering he is our best offensive linemen I think athletic testing is beyond, "he just practiced the drills" at this point.
Come on dude. What was the point of bashing a great athlete who has indeed proved it his first two years in the league? Quite literally arguing for argument sake.
my argument is moving a very good tackle to center where he will surely make far less money, and will hit UFA as a possible result.
my argument is not recognizing that Walker doesn't have a kick step and is a inconsistent blocker, can't close the back door, which forces Love to move up and left to avoid him, robbing him of concentration down field.
I have my doubts that Walker is even a starting RT for us this season, seriously Love is the guy most responsible for his success imo
What does Walker have to do with Zach Tom's RAS and going to center?
everything, or possibly nothing, are we so narrow minded that we can't even discuss other options in this thread.
Rob Demoski is creating click bait, which is so common now just a week before the draft.
moving Toms inside doesn't even make sense, to say he could out do Myers at center means little to me, so could Jenkins who was tried and failed at RT, I have little doubt that we worked Toms at center as well as RT, and he's playing tackle because he's very good at both and tackle is the more premium position.
this is a loadeed tackle draft, we'll probably take 3 of em
my argument is moving a very good tackle to center where he will surely make far less money, and will hit UFA as a possible result.
my argument is not recognizing that Walker doesn't have a kick step and is a inconsistent blocker, can't close the back door, which forces Love to move up and left to avoid him, robbing him of concentration down field.
I have my doubts that Walker is even a starting RT for us this season, seriously Love is the guy most responsible for his success imo
What does Walker have to do with Zach Tom's RAS and going to center?
everything, or possibly nothing, are we so narrow minded that we can't even discuss other options in this thread.
Rob Demoski is creating click bait, which is so common now just a week before the draft.
moving Toms inside doesn't even make sense, to say he could out do Myers at center means little to me, so could Jenkins who was tried and failed at RT, I have little doubt that we worked Toms at center as well as RT, and he's playing tackle because he's very good at both and tackle is the more premium position.
this is a loadeed tackle draft, we'll probably take 3 of em
Considering BG specifically mentioned he thought Center may be his best position the day we drafted him in 2022 leads me to believe there is some sense to all of this.
This isn't a nothing burger. We have always known the Packers like Zach Tom as a potential center because they said it from the very beginning.
What does Walker have to do with Zach Tom's RAS and going to center?
everything, or possibly nothing, are we so narrow minded that we can't even discuss other options in this thread.
Rob Demoski is creating click bait, which is so common now just a week before the draft.
moving Toms inside doesn't even make sense, to say he could out do Myers at center means little to me, so could Jenkins who was tried and failed at RT, I have little doubt that we worked Toms at center as well as RT, and he's playing tackle because he's very good at both and tackle is the more premium position.
this is a loadeed tackle draft, we'll probably take 3 of em
Considering BG specifically mentioned he thought Center may be his best position the day we drafted him in 2022 leads me to believe there is some sense to all of this.
This isn't a nothing burger. We have always known the Packers like Zach Tom as a potential center because they said it from the very beginning.
BG thought Savage was a top tier Safety, I wouldn't doubt a bit Guty said that, but thats not my argument anyway, team value has to be a part of this conversation, and also a issue of income Toms will earn over the course of his career, and where he'd like to play, I know you don't care about that, but he does.
the rap on Tom is the same stuff said about Bulaga, not enough length to play tackle, and just like now with Tom that turned out to be false, and may have been the impetus for Gutes comment on draft day IDK.
I just don't see this ever happening, Toms is to good a tackle to move to one of the more easily replaced positions like center.
yoop wrote:I just don't see this ever happening, Toms is to good a tackle to move to one of the more easily replaced positions like center.
You've finally said the part I feel most strongly about. This I can get behind.
Thing is, though, it seems this draft runs counter to that argument. There are a bunch of tackle prospects that make bumping Tom inside a viable option. That's the point many have been making all this time.
yoop wrote:I just don't see this ever happening, Toms is to good a tackle to move to one of the more easily replaced positions like center.
You've finally said the part I feel most strongly about. This I can get behind.
Thing is, though, it seems this draft runs counter to that argument. There are a bunch of tackle prospects that make bumping Tom inside a viable option. That's the point many have been making all this time.
I think that’s more because there’s a positional value issue and people’s draft knowledge and certainty trends early.
OTs get drafted early and this is a strong OT class, so we have a TON of OT names in our heads, even though only a couple will last until 25.
But it’s also considered a strong C class and there are far more mid round starting Cs in the league than OTs (at least proportionally, since there are twice as many starters at OT).
It’s simply a fact that starting OCs hit free agency more than starting OTs. And that OTs get drafted higher than OCs.
The conversation about drafting a tackle and kicking Tom inside is predicated on the fact that in the early parts of the draft, it’s more appealing to draft an OT than an OC due to that positional value.
So the sense that this draft is running counter to positional value is sort of a self actualizing mirage
Last edited by YoHoChecko on 16 Apr 2024 15:51, edited 2 times in total.
I am by no means trying to predict where the draft will go or what position will be more "loaded" than any other. I actually think we have a better chance of getting high end interior players in this draft than an OT. There are a lot of OTs round 1 that I don't want.
My only real thought at this moment is it's nice to have options. And that is what we have - options.
Wouldn't that mean Tom would walk in two years? If I'm negotiating a second contract, and you want me to do it as a center, I'd opt for free agency and deal with one of the teams that have seen me prove my worth at tackle.
Wouldn't that mean Tom would walk in two years? If I'm negotiating a second contract, and you want me to do it as a center, I'd opt for free agency and deal with one of the teams that have seen me prove my worth at tackle.
Teams are going to offer a big OT contract after he doesn't play the position for two straight years? As good as talent evaluators in the NFL are, there is always a very strong recency bias.
I'll bet anyone a thousand dollars that Tom is not playing center next year barring injury.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I'll bet anyone a thousand dollars that Tom is not playing center next year barring injury.
Could I accept this after the draft?
Yes. 1 to 1 odds first game of season barring injury.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Yes. 1 to 1 odds first game of season barring injury.
Nobody is gonna bet anything monetary on a fan forum. Why not make it something with more...forum consequence? Like an avatar change?
This is a great offseason diversion. I've already selected which avatar should be changed first! And it's certainly not Ringo's, Pugger's, Cdragon's, NCF's, Yoop's or Bogey's.
Last edited by RingoCStarrQB on 20 Apr 2024 13:05, edited 3 times in total.
I wouldn't doubt a bit Guty said that, but thats not my argument anyway, team value has to be a part of this conversation, and also a issue of income Toms will earn over the course of his career, and where he'd like to play, I know you don't care about that, but he does.
