Changes to Make

[texas]

I'm going to make a numbered list of things I think we ought to do to improve for next year, yall can make lists too

Overall, we lost today because we had a lot of bad injury luck, and refs who didn't do us any favors, and some poor decisions by Love, all of which aren't necessarily anything to worry about long term, but there are still improvements we should make.

1) Love needs to run more - I have complained about this every year since like 2014. Our QBs don't run enough. I thought when we switched from Rodgers to Love the problem would go away, but Love runs even less than Rodgers! I would much rather a QB run too little than too much, and we don't want a running QB (or an "instincts QB" like Justin Fields describes himself, who can only go through 1 read before taking off), but every elite QB who does anything in January has to, at times, make a 12 yard run for a first down or whatever. And ours literally never do. The last time we had a mobile threat from the QB position, the #1 seed devoted a spy to him and we won the Super Bowl. In the past I called for the coaches to nudge our QB in that direction, but this offseason I want MLF to specifically add a section of the playbook comprised of designed QB runs and RPOs. If for no reason other than Love learning to habitually at least consider it.

2) Hafley needs to change his scheme - The defense was so good today, they were not the problem. That being said, our pass rush was a problem all year. We definitely seem to be a "bend but don't break" defense with an emphasis on turnovers, which isn't the worst thing but when we lost this year, we generally got carved up in zone coverage in the LB range. And we never did have a good defensive front. The DBs did well but the others did not. I tend to blame this on Hafley's scheme. I was talking to my friend who knows football, and he posited that this type of defensive scheme works better in college because there aren't any elite QBs like you'll find in the NFL. Indeed, curiously this season we had some of our most dominating performances in recent memory, but they all came against bad teams and bad QBs, and whenever we played a competent QB, they'd carve us up. Our zone fools the bad and mediocre QBs, but it doesn't fool the good ones. So we need to change this defensive scheme a bit to shore up the zones behind the line.

3) Need more OL depth - the injury to Jenkins sucked, but the replacements were quite awful. I wonder what they were doing all year. We ought to get some veteran depth there, if possible

4) Draft WRs - the WR corps took a step down this year. We basically need another WR who can fill Watson's shoes with all of the off-ball stuff he brings to the table including just being a deep threat. Melton and Heath did not answer the call today. Wicks did but he dropped too many. Our WR corps le the league in drops. I think we need to draft WRs again. Imagine we had drafted Brian Thomas Jr, how much more comfortable would we have been today?

5) Tennis ball training for the WRs - I forget what team did this but I remember a story from like a decade ago where some coach had their WRs catch tennis balls from a tennis serving machine all offseason so they would catch better. I don't know if we need that exactly, but we need to figure out something to practice so our WRs don't drop so many

6) Get a FA DL - our DL was horrible this year. We got to pad our stats against that turnstile OT on the Titans, but our pass rush was the worst in the league for the first half of the season. It seemed to improve a little bit, but it was nonexistent today until Hafley started having to scheme up pressure. Scheming up pressure is okay but you'd rather have it come naturally because your players are actually good at it. Idk if we need to blow up the whole line or what, but at the very least we should get some FA or trade depth here because it seems like the teams with the best DLs are always doing that.

7) Increased penalties for sloppiness - In the first game of the year, I wasn't too worried about the miscues and sloppiness, because after all, we are a very young team and it will get better as the season goes by. Turns out it did not get better. We were sloppy the entire year. We're still a young team and this thing happens, but I think MLF ought to raise the penalty in practice or whatever for these types of mistakes. Too many dumb penalties and just dumb play the whole year. I like aggression of course, but do your personal fouls in the first quarter, not the 4th.

8) Complain about the officiating all offseason in league meetings - Let's face it, as Packers fans under Rodgers, we were largely blessed with officials who didn't screw us. I remember prior to Rodgers becoming a star, screwjobs were commonplace and I was constantly mad about the refs, but then he began to receive the Mahomes/Brady treatment and with the exception of the Fail Mary, we really didn't receive the short end of the stick very often. That changed this year. The refs were horrible to us. Maybe MLF needs to be harder on them or maybe Murphy needs to bring it up more in league meetings, but we were the victim of multiple screwjobs this year and it was unacceptable. Also today, Nixon shouldn't have fumbled like an idiot, but there was clear recovery and they repeatedly called ticky tack stuff on us while letting the Eagles slide with worse. So, we need to make more of a stink about officiating and flood the zone with proposals to overhaul it so as to make a point.

[TheSkeptic]

All good points.

IMO Love needs to do his progressions better and stop throwing into double coverage. There will be times when a ball sails or is under thrown but the throws into double coverage are inexcusable. I agree that Love needs to run more. Nothing takes the starch out of a pass rush more than the QB picking up 8 yards up the middle on 1st down and then an untouched slide. Do that consistently and the D has to dedicate a LB to be the spy. Also, there needs to be more planned short passes to the TE's and screens to Jacobs.

Fixing the Oline is imperative. This season we had no more than an average Oline. Now Myers is gone and Monk is not the answer - among other reasons he is not big enough to handle a NT and there is already sloppy fat on him so he can't gain weight. So either Jenkins or Tom needs to move to center. IMO Jenkins it should be Tom and Jordan Morgan becomes the new RT. Tom is not big either but he is quick enough and strong enough to compensate. Plus IMO Jenkins has only 2-3 more seasons in him and the Packers need a long term solution.

In 2 weeks, WR has gone from a strength to a disaster. Wicks and Reed are the only 2 with potential but both need to catch better. Doubs is done and the best case for Watson is PUP and a season of being a half step slower.

MLF needs to limit all this backfield motion with Reed and Melton. Followed by a handoff up the middle to Jacobs that gets stuffed because Reed/Melton are taking themselves out of the play and now the O has only 8 players to block 11 defensive players. MLF needs to get Musgrave into the passing game, they guy has too much ability to be an afterthought.

On ST, I am not going to be too critical of Nixon. It was bad luck. But he should not have tried to take it out of the EZ because the odds are not good on a return. The missed FG hurt badly but is unlikely to repeat. Penalties need to stop and maybe the only way to stop them is to have that player inactive the following week. Nixon should not be starting at all, let him be a full time kickoff and punt returner and a backup DB. All using Reed to return punts is going to do is to end his career also.

Gute has drafted well in the last few years, but this spring will be a big challenge. He has to find 2 WR's and some decent backups for the Oline, they are paper thin. A CB is a top priority too, neither Valentine nor Stokes nor Nixon should be starting outside.

And lets hope to God that Jacobs limping around at the end of the game is not a major knee injury.

[lupedafiasco]

1) Policy needs to sit down with Gutenbumst and Lafleur and make them look at themselves. We finished 3rd in the division and on a 3-game losing streak. We went 0-6 against the 3 best teams in the NFC. We have what appears to be the 3rd best HC, 3rd best DC, 3rd best OC, and what is quite easily the 4th best STs coordinator in the division. Make changes or do better or I will do them for you should be the message. I think you need to make them ask the real question I have been wondering about them for a long time, "Am I retarded?"


2) Get rid of Bisaccia. Lafleur doesnt want to be the HC to just fire coordinator after coordinator but if thats the case hire better people. Bisaccia is the head of one of the worst STs units in the league yet again. Bad long snapping, kick/punt coverage issues, kick/punt blocking issues, couldnt develop a kicker, and never made the unit a strength despite being the highest paids STs coordinator in the league. Goodbye.

3) Improve the WR position. The Eagles have Brown and Smith. The Vikings have Jefferson and Addison. The Lions have ARSB and Williams. Get some real talent in at the position. I hate to say it but Love is not an elite passer like Rodgers or Favre that can carry this team above its talent level. This has been a problem now for about 7 years. We are so behind at WR compared to the rest of the league. You can get by if you have a QB like Lamar or Allen that can just take off and run. We always just sit on our hands at the position compared to other contenders that bring in weapons.

4) Change your draft philosophy. Stop getting these players that dont give you any value on their rookie deals until its time to extend them. Jordan Love, AJ Dillon, Rashan Gary, LVN, Jordan Morgan. These are premium picks that just take too long to develop if they even develop at all. The league right now is set up where your veterans get PAID and you need to get value on those cheap deals.

5) Stop handing out 3rd contracts to declining and old players. The writing for Kennys decline was on the walls a long time ago. His run defense was falling off a cliff so why did we extend him to a big money deal? Even with his improved pass rush production it was not anything elite compared to other DTs. The Preston Smith extension is another. The Devondre Campbell deal is another. Jimmy Graham is a throwback contract to an older vet who was declining. These deals are killing us. Overpay for young and ascending. Not old and declining.

6) Lafleur needs to look at analytics and his decision making. Anytime you decide to receive the ball instead of defer, youre an idiot. Anytime your returner takes the ball out of the endzone instead of just taking the ball at the 30, youre an idiot. Too many times this season we did things that analytically made no sense. We would go for it on one 4th down and not do it on another. Somehow you dont know the range of your kicker when you need a FG. Get your &%$@ together.

[go pak go]

I think team identity and what type of team we want to be is going to be the most important decision and path to make this offseason.

Teams have different personalities. The 2010's and early 2020's were dominated by strong pass blocking Olinemen, strong passing attack, and a bend, don't break defense that excelled when playing with a lead.

I see this team transitioning to a run first team and a defense that plays more aggressive that truly focuses on keeping the opponent to 17 or less. With that, I think more mauling style Olinemen, a large WR who can catch contested balls, a strong blocking 3rd TE, a good Hback/Fullback, a pass rush specialist, and secondary help is what we should shift our focus to.

I also believe Jenkins will move to center and Morgan will be put on the left side as LT backup/LG starter competition. I would then look at drafting another Tackle/Gurd guy (or 2) in that 3rd to 5th round to compete as backup to round out our top 8 with Monk backup Center and Telfort fighting for that 7th/8th spot.

I think this team is best when we ask Love to make 30 passes for 225 - 275 yards and 1 - 2 TDs a game

[go pak go]

Cap-wise we are in great shape.

We have 39 players under contract going into 2025 and have $63 Million of cap space. Our only players who may be viewed as "resignable" are Slaton, Meyers, and Stokes. None of these guys are break the bank guys.

I think this year you focus on availability and depth. I hate having a season and position count on a player being healthy. Obviously you can't fully get away from this but looking at depth has a higher appeal than big star and then large drop off.

[Half Empty]

Cap-wise we are in great shape.

We have 39 players under contract going into 2025 and have $63 Million of cap space. Our only players who may be viewed as "resignable" are Slaton, Meyers, and Stokes. None of these guys are break the bank guys.

I think this year you focus on availability and depth. I hate having a season and position count on a player being healthy. Obviously you can't fully get away from this but looking at depth has a higher appeal than big star and then large drop off.

My main heartburn is that about a third of the total cap is tied up in the top four most highly paid guys, three of whom haven't produced as paid and one who probably would, if he did play.

[Half Empty]

Cap-wise we are in great shape.

We have 39 players under contract going into 2025 and have $63 Million of cap space. Our only players who may be viewed as "resignable" are Slaton, Meyers, and Stokes. None of these guys are break the bank guys.

I think this year you focus on availability and depth. I hate having a season and position count on a player being healthy. Obviously you can't fully get away from this but looking at depth has a higher appeal than big star and then large drop off.

My main heartburn is that about a third of the total cap is tied up in the top four most highly paid guys, three of whom haven't produced as paid and one who probably would, if he did play.

[go pak go]

Cap-wise we are in great shape.

We have 39 players under contract going into 2025 and have $63 Million of cap space. Our only players who may be viewed as "resignable" are Slaton, Meyers, and Stokes. None of these guys are break the bank guys.

I think this year you focus on availability and depth. I hate having a season and position count on a player being healthy. Obviously you can't fully get away from this but looking at depth has a higher appeal than big star and then large drop off.

My main heartburn is that about a third of the total cap is tied up in the top four most highly paid guys, three of whom haven't produced as paid and one who probably would, if he did play.

I mean your top 5 will always consume about a third of the cap. The trick is to pick those guys correctly and also be able to get out of deals easily.

The worst case scenario is when a newly signed guy flops (like Alexander and Bakh). There is valid concern that we are seeing this with Gary but guys like Clark and Alexander are becoming more and more cuttable if/when necessary. I think overall our cap situation is pretty darned good.

[Labrev]

First off...

1) Love needs to run more - I have complained about this every year since like 2014. Our QBs don't run enough.

I agree.

2) Hafley needs to change his scheme

I disagree. His scheme seems pretty good, it's just that once we lost Jaire, it severely limited us. And yet, even after losing him, they still performed. We gave up 23 to an elite offense, where they basically got to open the game deep in our territory on a BS ref call, so even counting that 7 against them is pretty harsh. We pretty consistently held the opposing defense to 20 or less. Our O just was not good enough to out-score.

We need another season to get him the right personnel. The same was true of Year 2 with Capers, scheme was an improvement over what we had but the defense was not great because a lot of the parts didn't fit.

3) Need more OL depth - the injury to Jenkins sucked, but the replacements were quite awful. I wonder what they were doing all year. We ought to get some veteran depth there, if possible

Myers probably played his last snap with us, in which case, yes, we will need one more guy. Morgan will probably play somewhere. I think Monk will be a quality IOL for us if given the opportunity. Glover clearly is still a work in progress and Telfort is a JAG, but those are back-of-roster guys anyway. We need one more in case of a second injury to keep those guys on the bench. Beyond that, you just need to hope any additional injuries are not too serious and ride with that for a few weeks.

4) Draft WRs - the WR corps took a step down this year. We basically need another WR who can fill Watson's shoes with all of the off-ball stuff he brings to the table including just being a deep threat. Melton and Heath did not answer the call today.

I agree. But also,

5) Tennis ball training for the WRs - I forget what team did this but I remember a story from like a decade ago where some coach had their WRs catch tennis balls from a tennis serving machine all offseason so they would catch better. I don't know if we need that exactly, but we need to figure out something to practice so our WRs don't drop so many

Why stop there? While yes we need more talent and competition in the WR room, especially in light of the recent injuries, what we had this year was the same as last year and the passing offense looked great. So we know they can perform better than they did. The big question in my mind is, who is to blame for not only the lack of a year two jump, but regression?

I don't think Jason Vrabel is it. We seem to have a drops problem every damn year. Let's get a new WR Coach.

6) Get a FA DL - our DL was horrible this year. We got to pad our stats against that turnstile OT on the Titans, but our pass rush was the worst in the league for the first half of the season. It seemed to improve a little bit, but it was nonexistent today until Hafley started having to scheme up pressure. Scheming up pressure is okay but you'd rather have it come naturally because your players are actually good at it. Idk if we need to blow up the whole line or what, but at the very least we should get some FA or trade depth here because it seems like the teams with the best DLs are always doing that.

No argument from me.

7) Increased penalties for sloppiness - In the first game of the year, I wasn't too worried about the miscues and sloppiness, because after all, we are a very young team and it will get better as the season goes by. Turns out it did not get better. We were sloppy the entire year. We're still a young team and this thing happens, but I think MLF ought to raise the penalty in practice or whatever for these types of mistakes. Too many dumb penalties and just dumb play the whole year. I like aggression of course, but do your personal fouls in the first quarter, not the 4th.

Definitely need to figure out a way to clean this up, yes.

8) Complain about the officiating all offseason in league meetings - Let's face it, as Packers fans under Rodgers, we were largely blessed with officials who didn't screw us. I remember prior to Rodgers becoming a star, screwjobs were commonplace and I was constantly mad about the refs, but then he began to receive the Mahomes/Brady treatment and with the exception of the Fail Mary, we really didn't receive the short end of the stick very often. That changed this year. The refs were horrible to us. Maybe MLF needs to be harder on them or maybe Murphy needs to bring it up more in league meetings, but we were the victim of multiple screwjobs this year and it was unacceptable. Also today, Nixon shouldn't have fumbled like an idiot, but there was clear recovery and they repeatedly called ticky tack stuff on us while letting the Eagles slide with worse. So, we need to make more of a stink about officiating and flood the zone with proposals to overhaul it so as to make a point.

No argument here.

[Labrev]

I don't know that I really have much to add. Love needs to continue improving. It is good that he has been taking care of the ball better down the stretch, but he is not really slinging it lately, and I feel like that has hurt us because we need him to go out and make some of those plays. It feels like we are really close to him finding that happy medium between the Favre and the Rodgers extremes. He got a *little* too Rodgers in the last couple of weeks. I actually liked that he chucked a few YOLO balls last night even if they largely all ended in failure. We had no WRs left so he may as well sling it.

With MLF, he needs to figure out how to get them to play more sound football. Everyone has been making that criticism but it's 100% true.

I also want to add, he needs to find his balls on 4th Down again. I don't care that you don't have Rodgers, don't have Adams, and now have a K who can make more FGs. Teams that convert 4s have a major advantage. Dan Campbell said that the point of going for 4th so often in the regular season was to harden the team so that come playoff time, they would feel totally comfortable making the must-have play.

MLF needs to get back to going for it more, and he needs way better plays for when he does. He has all offseason now to design such plays.

Hafley needs to be given personnel to run his defense closer to its ideal.

I thought our STs looked acceptable midseason, until the last two weeks when they faceplanted pretty hard. I wonder if having a K who didn't need time and attention helped free up Rich to coach the other operations more, and that maybe MLF had him do less AHC stuff and more ST coaching. Anyway, I don't think the Coord is the problem, and I was pretty harshly critical of him for the first few weeks. Then again, they did faceplant, so I don't know. Yet ultimately I doubt there is someone out there better than Bisaccia, and we are more likely to hire a Mennenga or Drayton than an upgrade. But we need to bring back McManus, and then our coaches need to really clean up the other ST operations.

[Acrobat]

What I hate the most about this year is that I went in feeling like we found our 3rd HOF QB in a row to now not being so sure if he's THE GUY.

[go pak go]

What I hate the most about this year is that I went in feeling like we found our 3rd HOF QB in a row to now not being so sure if he's THE GUY.

I don't think he's HIM.

But I think we can consistently get him to top 10 level and then hope he has a few runs in him of elite play. Having HIM didn't amount to rings so not having HIM doesn't bother me. Just forces us to build the team different.

[wallyuwl]

What I hate the most about this year is that I went in feeling like we found our 3rd HOF QB in a row to now not being so sure if he's THE GUY.

He isn't. His ceiling is NFCCG, and that is with an amazing supporting cast. He continues to make bad decisions, yet in a presser earlier this year he said essentially "that is how I play." what a defiant attitude. You can make bad decisions once in a while if you're accurate, but his accuracy is bad. His mechanics are awful and his arm talent isn't good enough to compensate. After year 5 he is the same player he was coming out of college - a guy who makes bad decisions and can't throw accurately. He also doesn't have "it." No fire, no passion, guys don't want to go through a wall for him. He is what he is, and how his contract will hamstring the organization for at least three or four more years. I'd eagerly take Baker Mayfield over Love right now.

[go pak go]

What I hate the most about this year is that I went in feeling like we found our 3rd HOF QB in a row to now not being so sure if he's THE GUY.

He isn't. His ceiling is NFCCG,

I mean I have seen that for 15 years. What's new?

[Acrobat]

What I hate the most about this year is that I went in feeling like we found our 3rd HOF QB in a row to now not being so sure if he's THE GUY.

I don't think he's HIM.

But I think we can consistently get him to top 10 level and then hope he has a few runs in him of elite play. Having HIM didn't amount to rings so not having HIM doesn't bother me. Just forces us to build the team different.

Yep, that is a good point. The other side to the argument is that he may never cost us as much as Rodgers did if he's just a top 10 QB and not the best in the league.

[wallyuwl]

What I hate the most about this year is that I went in feeling like we found our 3rd HOF QB in a row to now not being so sure if he's THE GUY.

He isn't. His ceiling is NFCCG,

I mean I have seen that for 15 years. What's new?

It will take Love having a much better team around him to get to NFCCG than it did AR. If not for Bak hurting his knee in practice I think the Packers win the SB in 2020.

[packman114]

Lot of speculation on Jacobs trying to push for getting Crosby here.(Maxx not Mason!) That would definitely help Gary out IMO. I think our DBs would be fine if we had a player like Crosby on the DL to go with the others. One All-pro with a 2nd Pro-Bowl type(Gary) and these other high-motor guys we have. Then we just need Love to be efficient and not HOF worthy. 13-18 completions a game for 180-250 yds and we have a real chance.

I'd give up a 1st & 3rd round pick for Crosby. We're young enough to go one year with less draft picks.

[wallyuwl]

I'd give up a 1st & 3rd round pick for Crosby. We're young enough to go one year with less draft picks.

Me, too. Gute would rather draft another developmental guard and WR6.

[go pak go]

He isn't. His ceiling is NFCCG,

I mean I have seen that for 15 years. What's new?

It will take Love having a much better team around him to get to NFCCG than it did AR. If not for Bak hurting his knee in practice I think the Packers win the SB in 2020.

Still an "If"

If the refs called the right ball spots in the 9ers games last year. If Nixon and/or Savage caught the interception in their hand last year. If Anderson made a 41 FG....

GB had just as much right to win the SB last year as any other team.

Like I said, the Packers can win with Love, but I do think they need to build the team differently.

[Yoop]

I mean I have seen that for 15 years. What's new?

It will take Love having a much better team around him to get to NFCCG than it did AR. If not for Bak hurting his knee in practice I think the Packers win the SB in 2020.

Still an "If"

If the refs called the right ball spots in the 9ers games last year. If Nixon and/or Savage caught the interception in their hand last year. If Anderson made a 41 FG....

GB had just as much right to win the SB last year as any other team.

Like I said, the Packers can win with Love, but I do think they need to build the team differently.

I thought forum consensus opinion was to run, run, run, and play great defense, could have sworn that's what everyone wanted