Packers Huddle

Hollman vs. Deguara for the 30th spot.

Holla, but it is not good that this is the 30th spot between these two. Not good at all.

Why is it bad that a high upside drafted 2nd year player vs a rookie the HC is infatuated with are vying for a poll position amongst backups where snaps are starting to get scarce, and things like ST impact are starting to matter?

Waldo wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2020 10:09

Why is it bad that a high upside drafted 2nd year player vs a rookie the HC is infatuated with are vying for a poll position amongst backups where snaps are starting to get scarce, and things like ST impact are starting to matter?

Maybe it is just me personally, but neither of these guys pops out as a guy that will ever be a starter. And at 30, that is what I want. A guy that can be a starter on our team if needed, or soon in the future. Maybe both or one can be, but I just think it is high for these two. Only time will tell I guess. For 2020 though, Deguara will not be a difference maker at all, or really push anyone year 1. Just my thought.

We all saw the results on the field throughout preseason.

We knew: Elgton Jenkins was a better football player than Lane Taylor. It was clear. However, MLF went a different direction:

Matt LaFleur wrote:Elgton will be suited up as an emergency fill in, but for the most part, we've done the necessary work. It's going to be a competition throughout the season, but right now Lane Taylor is the starter

Matt LaFleur wrote:I just think it’s a comfort factor. You’ve got an experienced player. I think Elgton is a guy that’s got a lot to learn but I think there’s a lot to like about Elgton. I think he’s got a bright future.

MLF praises competition; in practice and in preseason, he let the play on the field do the talking. But when it came time to distribute regular season playing time, MLF prefers experience.

***********************************************************************************************

Matt LaFleur wrote:Ka’dar’s done a nice job. He challenges our receivers each and every day. He’s not afraid to get up there and bump ’em. So he’s made some nice plays. Again, a young player. It’ll be interesting to once we get to real, live game situations and see how he responds, but I’m excited about him.

Sounds a little familiar. MLF doesn't like playing rookies when he doesn't have to. Josiah Deguara? He's a rookie. Ka'Dar Hollman? Well, he WAS a rookie.

Mike Pettine wrote:I like Ka’dar. He’s intense, you can tell he loves football. He’s a guy that’s been real good at the press man aspect of it. He’s had practices where you really have to go back and look to see if a ball got caught on him. He’s done a good job.

Jason Simmons, Secondary coach wrote:He’s continually improved. Ka’dar is willing to learn. He takes hard coaching. That’s what he responds to. He wants hard coaching and he wants to be a good player.

Avery Duncan, Clutch Points wrote:It doesn’t matter when you’re drafted; it matters how you perform when cleats hit the gridiron. That’s all too true for Green Bay Packers cornerback Ka’Dar Hollman, who was taken in the sixth round of the 2019 NFL Draft. So far, he’s playing above his draft status.

Zach Kruse wrote:Rookie cornerback Ka’dar Hollman has been one of the early surprises of Green Bay Packers training camp

We’ve heard plenty about the early-round draft picks, such as Rashan Gary, Darnell Savage, and Elgton Jenkins – and rightfully so – however, the biggest surprise so far may be the sixth-round pick, Ka’dar Hollman out of Toledo.

With 4.39 speed, a 38″ vertical, and a fiery, in your face competitor, Hollman caught the eye of the coaching staff back in OTAs and has been able to carry that momentum over into Training Camp and into the preseason.

Hollman has been consistently winning his one-on-one battles in practice and with injuries to Kevin King and Josh Jackson, he’s been running with the first and second team defenses. So those victories of his are coming against Green Bay’s better offensive players.

Hollman didn't see the field much as a rookie. There's a comfort level, right? With experienced players. But when they get the chance... when they hit the field, they may be the better player. They may be a surprise.

Ka'Dar Hollman proved last summer that he belongs. This year, he's a player with some experience. There's a comfort level there. He's going to get his chance.

Chalk Deguara up, for me.

Deguara

The third round pick who will essentially be granted the H back/FB role and not great competition at TE and is a roster lock definitely gets my vote over the 6th rounder who earned 4 defensive snaps and in my opinion likely won’t make the roster and will already be 26 this year.

Hollman. You need a ton of DBs and this guy has all the tools. I'm expecting the big jump.

Rookie TEs don't do much Especially small rookie TEs.

we need to start making some gentlemanly bets concerning these players now, it's put up your avatar time once again, sooooo I'am willing to part with the balding and once revered Jack Vanisi in saying Holla gets more reps that Degua this season ( can't believe I'am doing this ) any takers? maybe just a time limited of say the first 4 games....or

Both solid options, I expect both will get similar amounts of playing time when on the field, am leaning Deguara because he seems more likely to get on the field sooner and to impact the game positively. CB is a lot tougher to predict because you can go from looking good to stinky almost without warning, and seeing the field over Sternberger and Tonyan will be a lot easier than trying to see it over King, Alex, and Sully.

I went with the rookie for one reason. He will be our fullback/H-back.

Otherwise I love Hollman. I am excited to see the battle of Hollman vs Jackson this preseason. Hollman if we are lucky, could make Kevin King expendable.

But someone has to take the Vitale snaps and that will be Deguara.

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2020 15:55

I went with the rookie for one reason. He will be our fullback/H-back.

Otherwise I love Hollman. I am excited to see the battle of Hollman vs Jackson this preseason. Hollman if we are lucky, could make Kevin King expendable.

But someone has to take the Vitale snaps and that will be Deguara.

Last year our #4 CB played more than twice as many snaps as Vitale, just FYI

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2020 15:59

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2020 15:55

I went with the rookie for one reason. He will be our fullback/H-back.

Otherwise I love Hollman. I am excited to see the battle of Hollman vs Jackson this preseason. Hollman if we are lucky, could make Kevin King expendable.

But someone has to take the Vitale snaps and that will be Deguara.

Last year our #4 CB played more than twice as many snaps as Vitale, just FYI

It is probably more likely they use AJ Dillion as FB since he's a threat to actually touch the ball.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2020 15:59

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2020 15:55

I went with the rookie for one reason. He will be our fullback/H-back.

Otherwise I love Hollman. I am excited to see the battle of Hollman vs Jackson this preseason. Hollman if we are lucky, could make Kevin King expendable.

But someone has to take the Vitale snaps and that will be Deguara.

Last year our #4 CB played more than twice as many snaps as Vitale, just FYI

I know that. You did a fantastic job of explaining that in the last thread too. (I mean this too. Awesome work).

I just moved to Cincinnati so I have barely been on this board but I ended up going with the rookie because though Vitale had less snaps than CB #4, I think this also had to do with the coaching staff just not liking Vitale. They used him so much in August and then the season comes and Vitale is not used. Vitale also had some some major missed blocks and I think that really irked the coaching staff no matter how good of a receiver Vitale was.

LeFluer can't stop raving above Josiah. He was a targeted pick. I am likely wrong on this for this year as you stated because of rookies not being involved and this is a TOUGH position to catch on right away, but I see a fundamental shift in the philosophy of this offense and I think Josiah is a big part of that.

Plus, there is a clear battle for CB #4 and I am by no means handing that to Hollman yet. I am very excited for Jerry Gray getting to coach up Josh and K'Dar.

I genuinely HOPE Deguara deserves this spot.

I just don't expeect much from rookies in general under MLF and from rookie TEs especially in any system.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2020 08:54

I genuinely HOPE Deguara deserves this spot.

I just don't expeect much from rookies in general under MLF and from rookie TEs especially in any system.

I'm with you there, it's not only hard to vote for him because he's a rookie TE, but because who's in front of him too. This offense is going to see what they have in Jace. And I don't think Tonyan is going to be replaced quickly in the receiving game.

Judging by what the Packers to be wanting to do on offense, Deguara might be very valuable this year, but won't show up on the stat sheet much as our backfield looks pretty darn good right now. Really, really curious what they have planned for him in the backfield down the road though (where I think he'll get the most looks).

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2020 08:54

I genuinely HOPE Deguara deserves this spot.

I just don't expeect much from rookies in general under MLF and from rookie TEs especially in any system.

Thing is SOMEONE has to play that spot. The only real alternative I can see here is either MLF puts Sternberger there (he played that spot last year) or he reduces the FB/HBack role as he did last year.

Something tells me MLF does not want to do that. He wants to get MORE into his system and not less like we did last year. So if that is the case, someone will fill that role and it could very easily be Josiah.

Yes he doesn't like to play rookies, but he also did play two rookies as full time starters last year which is not insignificant either. In addition, he also put Shepherd as essentially WR3/WR4 and full time returner. So I think it is too early to say how MLF treats rookies.

The alternative can be flipped too. We know Pettine likes to play with a lot of DBs. SOMEONE has to play that CB4 position and will be getting full times snaps if any of the top 3 misses time. It is actually a very important position and I hope like crazy Jackson and Hollman push the crap out of each other.

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2020 09:59

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2020 08:54

I genuinely HOPE Deguara deserves this spot.

I just don't expeect much from rookies in general under MLF and from rookie TEs especially in any system.

I'm with you there, it's not only hard to vote for him because he's a rookie TE, but because who's in front of him too. This offense is going to see what they have in Jace. And I don't think Tonyan is going to be replaced quickly in the receiving game.

Judging by what the Packers to be wanting to do on offense, Deguara might be very valuable this year, but won't show up on the stat sheet much as our backfield looks pretty darn good right now. Really, really curious what they have planned for him in the backfield down the road though (where I think he'll get the most looks).

Who's in front of him is part of why I am voting for him. Jace is not insurmountable competition; he is a second-year guy who needs to prove himself not appreciably less than Deguara will have to. Lewis is pretty limited at this point: blocking-specialist, not more. Tonyan, maybe this is the year he puts it together but we have been waiting for a while.

It's a pretty open competition, as far as I can see; whereas the competition at CB starts at CB3 (if that, I think Sullivan is a heavy favorite).

go pak go wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2020 11:20

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2020 08:54

I genuinely HOPE Deguara deserves this spot.

I just don't expeect much from rookies in general under MLF and from rookie TEs especially in any system.

Thing is SOMEONE has to play that spot. The only real alternative I can see here is either MLF puts Sternberger there (he played that spot last year) or he reduces the FB/HBack role as he did last year.

Something tells me MLF does not want to do that. He wants to get MORE into his system and not less like we did last year. So if that is the case, someone will fill that role and it could very easily be Josiah.

Yes he doesn't like to play rookies, but he also did play two rookies as full time starters last year which is not insignificant either. In addition, he also put Shepherd as essentially WR3/WR4 and full time returner. So I think it is too early to say how MLF treats rookies.

The alternative can be flipped too. We know Pettine likes to play with a lot of DBs. SOMEONE has to play that CB4 position and will be getting full times snaps if any of the top 3 misses time. It is actually a very important position and I hope like crazy Jackson and Hollman push the crap out of each other.

I think Jackson and Lewis are trade bait, Jackson hasn't really shown that he can win a start and Pettine doesn't even use him in the dime unless Summers, Sullivan, or shepard where hurt, come cut down I think he's a peddle or cut player, same with Lewis, if Sternberger shows some blocking improvement and Dequara shows he's picking up the blocking why keep Lewis?

Yoop wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2020 11:30

go pak go wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2020 11:20

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2020 08:54

I genuinely HOPE Deguara deserves this spot.

I just don't expeect much from rookies in general under MLF and from rookie TEs especially in any system.

Thing is SOMEONE has to play that spot. The only real alternative I can see here is either MLF puts Sternberger there (he played that spot last year) or he reduces the FB/HBack role as he did last year.

Something tells me MLF does not want to do that. He wants to get MORE into his system and not less like we did last year. So if that is the case, someone will fill that role and it could very easily be Josiah.

Yes he doesn't like to play rookies, but he also did play two rookies as full time starters last year which is not insignificant either. In addition, he also put Shepherd as essentially WR3/WR4 and full time returner. So I think it is too early to say how MLF treats rookies.

The alternative can be flipped too. We know Pettine likes to play with a lot of DBs. SOMEONE has to play that CB4 position and will be getting full times snaps if any of the top 3 misses time. It is actually a very important position and I hope like crazy Jackson and Hollman push the crap out of each other.

I think Jackson and Lewis are trade bait, Jackson hasn't really shown that he can win a start and Pettine doesn't even use him in the dime unless Summers, Sullivan, or shepard where hurt, come cut down I think he's a peddle or cut player, same with Lewis, if Sternberger shows some blocking improvement and Dequara shows he's picking up the blocking why keep Lewis?

Yeah I have trouble saying Jackson is trade bait when I don't think he has much trade value. I'm just gonna root for him at this point and hope Jerry Gray can turn his career around.