Packers Huddle

So far I am 53 minutes into it. This is a 90 minute video.

This guy has really good stuff. I know only a limited number here will watch it because of the time investment but I do highly encourage people to watch this.

Why it is so good is it does, as it implies, compares Rodgers to Love and why Gute and MLF like Love for his system.

But it also highlights the MLF system itself and what we are trying to accomplish. It highlights and explains why we need to get our preconceived notions of what a good offense looks like and that this offense is not based on having 4 tremendous WRs to beat their man like we have been used to seeing for decades.

This gets into why Aaron Jones is such a weapon. Why AJ Dillon has the ability to be such a weapon and why Deguara is such a coveted pick for us. This explains why our 1st three draft picks were what they were. The illusion of complexity and importance of rhythm.

I actually watched the entire thing. Good vid! A bit redundant, but then you don't need to wonder about what his points are.

My main two takeaways, 1) that MLF's system will work, even with less than stellar WR talent, and 2) Aaron Rodgers HATES the quick, dump off pass for a guaranteed 3-8 yards. He would MUCH rather go further downfield. (I agree.)

It's just good to have some video documentation broken down about both points.

Scott4Pack wrote: ↑

25 Aug 2020 02:56

I actually watched the entire thing. Good vid! A bit redundant, but then you don't need to wonder about what his points are.

My main two takeaways, 1) that MLF's system will work, even with less than stellar WR talent, and 2) Aaron Rodgers HATES the quick, dump off pass for a guaranteed 3-8 yards. He would MUCH rather go further downfield. (I agree.)

It's just good to have some video documentation broken down about both points.

Awesome! I haven't even watched it all yet. I got through about 70 minutes. He has some other videos that are much shorter but are good scouting tapes of our draft picks and how they will fit into our system.

I will add that currently our offense still depends on tremendous talent from as you said, the WR position, but it also depends on great talent from the offensive line to give Rodgers the time he needs for the longer developing plays. And even more time on top of that when the play gets broken and he needs even more time to get the ball out.

We have been so spoiled not only from great QB play for decades, but also great Oline play. We have to have consistently the best offensive line the last 30 years (outside of those outliers such as 2005 or when mass injuries hit the line). I mean just look at our division and how much challenge they have on getting Oline production.

Now this, could also be because our QB is very good and makes the Oline's job easier, but watching him and his hesitancy to throw the ball...I have a hard time buying that.

But what I love about MLF's system is his offense places more value on gadget players and RBs which are better value finds in the draft. What I also love is as you stated, the system doesn't rely on top end WR talent but instead just get the ball out and let the player make the play or just simply get your 6 yards and live to fight another day.

Matt's offense is the illusion of complexity and very rhythm dependent. It's knowing the offense has the advantage because we know what we are going to do and the defense doesn't which is why MLF's offense requires 3rd and less than 5 every time. (how many times did we hear MLF say that last year and I also believe we were one of the worst teams on 3rd and 7+).

It's killing a defense one way and then hurting them with that same look but in the other way on another play.

This offense has me stoked if it gets run well. But we have to take advantage of 1st and 2nd down. If Rodgers can re-teach himself how to do that, I will take less "how did he do that?!" plays for more rhythm and offensive consistency.

go pak go wrote: ↑

23 Aug 2020 10:57

So far I am 53 minutes into it. This is a 90 minute video.

This guy has really good stuff. I know only a limited number here will watch it because of the time investment but I do highly encourage people to watch this.

Why it is so good is it does, as it implies, compares Rodgers to Love and why Gute and MLF like Love for his system.

But it also highlights the MLF system itself and what we are trying to accomplish. It highlights and explains why we need to get our preconceived notions of what a good offense looks like and that this offense is not based on having 4 tremendous WRs to beat their man like we have been used to seeing for decades.

This gets into why Aaron Jones is such a weapon. Why AJ Dillon has the ability to be such a weapon and why Deguara is such a coveted pick for us. This explains why our 1st three draft picks were what they were. The illusion of complexity and importance of rhythm.

I don't even listen to people like this, he bitches cause Rodgers extends the play instead of taking the check down that could have turned into a pick 6, and in the end Rodgers scrambles for the same yardage the dump off guy would have gotten, thing is QB's do miss on open receivers, often, actually in every game, yet thats all you hear about with Rodgers.
and just the sound of this guy is a turnoff for me, sorry GPG, I tried.

Yoop wrote: ↑

25 Aug 2020 08:22

go pak go wrote: ↑

23 Aug 2020 10:57

So far I am 53 minutes into it. This is a 90 minute video.

This guy has really good stuff. I know only a limited number here will watch it because of the time investment but I do highly encourage people to watch this.

Why it is so good is it does, as it implies, compares Rodgers to Love and why Gute and MLF like Love for his system.

But it also highlights the MLF system itself and what we are trying to accomplish. It highlights and explains why we need to get our preconceived notions of what a good offense looks like and that this offense is not based on having 4 tremendous WRs to beat their man like we have been used to seeing for decades.

This gets into why Aaron Jones is such a weapon. Why AJ Dillon has the ability to be such a weapon and why Deguara is such a coveted pick for us. This explains why our 1st three draft picks were what they were. The illusion of complexity and importance of rhythm.

I don't even listen to people like this,

Oh trust me. I know.

You don't like it when people scratch your ear. You only like it when people tickle your ear.

I just am imagining this forum 12 years from now when yoop is threatening everyone who puts any grief on our awesome quarterback Jordan Love and how it's all the GM's fault because how could anyone possibly expect Love to carry this team with the lack of WRs and it's a shame we could only get Love 1 Superbowl.

While at the same time saying how can we blame the receivers when the coach can't put together a scheme or playbook that allows the WRs to excel and continuing on in the same sentence how can we blame the coaches when he's working with a group of WR talent like he has the coach can only do so much...the players play. It's a tit for tat game and the defense makes corrections.

And don't even get me started about our defense and how yoop will say he always liked the Gary pick from the start. Sure there may have been growing pains the first two years but it was obvious he had talent and that the coach just had to put it all together.

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Aug 2020 08:33

I just am imagining this forum 12 years from now when yoop is threatening everyone who puts any grief on our awesome quarterback Jordan Love and how it's all the GM's fault because how could anyone possibly expect Love to carry this team with the lack of WRs and it's a shame we could only get Love 1 Superbowl.

While at the same time saying how can we blame the receivers when the coach can't put together a scheme or playbook that allows the WRs to excel and continuing on in the same sentence how can we blame the coaches when he's working with a group of WR talent like he has the coach can only do so much...the players play. It's a tit for tat game and the defense makes corrections.

And don't even get me started about our defense and how yoop will say he always liked the Gary pick from the start. Sure there may have been growing pains the first two years but it was obvious he had talent and that the coach just had to put it all together.

thanks for the 12 years, I'll take em

actually I think both players and coaches get to much credit and blame, so often (even more now) the outcome of the game seems out of there control, look how often we see the best teams come in second, it's beyond the realm of reality if ya ask me, I doubt it, however some games even seem fixed and refs are in on the take, I hate refs

I like Balance, I complained lots when we couldn't/wouldn't run the ball, I also complained when Rodgers audibled out of called run plays, however I also like the pass, and I expect to see both from a lot of 12 package plays, I'am looking forward to see what MLF does this season

Yoop wrote: ↑

25 Aug 2020 08:51

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Aug 2020 08:33

I just am imagining this forum 12 years from now when yoop is threatening everyone who puts any grief on our awesome quarterback Jordan Love and how it's all the GM's fault because how could anyone possibly expect Love to carry this team with the lack of WRs and it's a shame we could only get Love 1 Superbowl.

While at the same time saying how can we blame the receivers when the coach can't put together a scheme or playbook that allows the WRs to excel and continuing on in the same sentence how can we blame the coaches when he's working with a group of WR talent like he has the coach can only do so much...the players play. It's a tit for tat game and the defense makes corrections.

And don't even get me started about our defense and how yoop will say he always liked the Gary pick from the start. Sure there may have been growing pains the first two years but it was obvious he had talent and that the coach just had to put it all together.

thanks for the 12 years, I'll take em

actually I think both players and coaches get to much credit and blame, so often (even more now) the outcome of the game seems out of there control, look how often we see the best teams come in second, it's beyond the realm of reality if ya ask me, I doubt it, however some games even seem fixed and refs are in on the take, I hate refs

I like Balance, I complained lots when we couldn't/wouldn't run the ball, I also complained when Rodgers audibled out of called run plays, however I also like the pass, and I expect to see both from a lot of 12 package plays, I'am looking forward to see what MLF does this season

Yeah I think when you only judge success based on superbowl rings you're simply going to be mad, depressed and rejected.

Unless you're a Pats fan and that's why everyone hates them. Because they have way more go their way than anyone deserves and it's incredibly annoying.

Look, I am interested in this video but my god, I'm 8:50 in and he's shown one play.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2020 09:50

Look, I am interested in this video but my god, I'm 8:50 in and he's shown one play.

15:30... three plays. This guy really needs to smooth out his delivery here. Does he ever move into a more rapid-fire analysis?

I finding myself disagreeing with him on which guys are open. If Rodgers looks over there, the defense all shifts over there. Unrealistic expectations about how much of the field Aaron can see.

Also probably don’t agree with his overconfidence on what MLF wants, like on the Jones wheel route. Keeps telling Aaron to throw left, not even looking that way, which again it he looked left, Kumerow wouldn’t have been as open. And we have no idea what MLF wanted that play. Maybe that was design where if you get man and single high, go to the wheel route.


I agree with parts, but have a feeling anyone inside 1265 would probably laugh at most of this analysis.

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2020 10:17

I finding myself disagreeing with him on which guys are open. If Rodgers looks over there, the defense all shifts over there. Unrealistic expectations about how much of the field Aaron can see.

Also probably don’t agree with his overconfidence on what MLF wants, like on the Jones wheel route. Keeps telling Aaron to throw left, not even looking that way, which again it he looked left, Kumerow wouldn’t have been as open. And we have no idea what MLF wanted that play. Maybe that was design where if you get man and single high, go to the wheel route.


I agree with parts, but have a feeling anyone inside 1265 would probably laugh at most of this analysis.

This one knows what he’s talking about.

BF004 wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2020 10:17

I finding myself disagreeing with him on which guys are open. If Rodgers looks over there, the defense all shifts over there. Unrealistic expectations about how much of the field Aaron can see.

Also probably don’t agree with his overconfidence on what MLF wants, like on the Jones wheel route. Keeps telling Aaron to throw left, not even looking that way, which again it he looked left, Kumerow wouldn’t have been as open. And we have no idea what MLF wanted that play. Maybe that was design where if you get man and single high, go to the wheel route.


I agree with parts, but have a feeling anyone inside 1265 would probably laugh at most of this analysis.

That's interesting; I tend to agree with you on most of this, particularly in terms on not knowing what MLF wants on individual plays and about 1265 not taking this seriously. And yes, while the defense would respond to the eyes if Rodgers looked elsewhere, it could limit the relevance of an open receiver, but I don't think it eliminates the point.

And the over-arching point I'm seeing this guy make is that players come open on quick underneath throws pretty routinely, and Rodgers doesn't throw many of them. I think he's honest about how that's a tradeoff (so far) and how you'd lose some plays if you went with that, but this does do an adequate job of pointing out that by scheme, there seems to be a relatively quick passing option on most plays, which is contrary to a lot of the narratives. So even though SOMETIMES he says "look both of these guys are open" and I only agree that one is... I find the examples pretty useful, at least to detail the way MLF's scheme is succeeding in creating opportunities, regardless of whether or not there's any relevant judgment onto Rodgers' decision-making process.

I am not worried about Jordan Love right now (same as 2005-2007 when I had zero interest in what Aaron Rodgers was up to riding the bench behind ironman Brett. What I am worried about / wondering about really ............ is Does MLF understand the concept of winning the time of possession battle? And of course the turnover battle.

GO PACK GO!

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2020 20:22

I am not worried about Jordan Love right now (same as 2005-2007 when I had zero interest in what Aaron Rodgers was up to riding the bench behind ironman Brett. What I am worried about / wondering about really ............ is Does MLF understand the concept of winning the time of possession battle? And of course the turnover battle.

GO PACK GO!

I would say any offensive system who seems to prefer running the ball and quick-out and easy passes absolutely understand the concept of winning time of possession.

And I would tend to believe every football coach in the entire world understand the concept of winning the turnover battle as that basically grants additional or takes away additional possessions.

go pak go wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2020 09:34

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2020 20:22

I am not worried about Jordan Love right now (same as 2005-2007 when I had zero interest in what Aaron Rodgers was up to riding the bench behind ironman Brett. What I am worried about / wondering about really ............ is Does MLF understand the concept of winning the time of possession battle? And of course the turnover battle.

GO PACK GO!

I would say any offensive system who seems to prefer running the ball and quick-out and easy passes absolutely understand the concept of winning time of possession.

And I would tend to believe every football coach in the entire world understand the concept of winning the turnover battle as that basically grants additional or takes away additional possessions.

I continue to be uncomfortable going in to the 4th quarter with a 10 point or less lead ......... because our defense can be somewhat porous. You know ........... continuously relying on a 3rd and 5 (or more) first down to keep the chains and clock moving. The playoff game versus Seattle was almost a perfect example of what I am talking about. Somehow Aaron pulled it off very nicely in that game (not exactly up against a great defense though). I guess its still the turnover battle that matters most. Packers almost lost the Ice Bowl due to turnovers. GO PACK GO!!

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2020 19:44

go pak go wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2020 09:34

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2020 20:22

I am not worried about Jordan Love right now (same as 2005-2007 when I had zero interest in what Aaron Rodgers was up to riding the bench behind ironman Brett. What I am worried about / wondering about really ............ is Does MLF understand the concept of winning the time of possession battle? And of course the turnover battle.

GO PACK GO!

I would say any offensive system who seems to prefer running the ball and quick-out and easy passes absolutely understand the concept of winning time of possession.

And I would tend to believe every football coach in the entire world understand the concept of winning the turnover battle as that basically grants additional or takes away additional possessions.

I continue to be uncomfortable going in to the 4th quarter with a 10 point or less lead ......... because our defense can be somewhat porous. You know ........... continuously relying on a 3rd and 5 (or more) first down to keep the chains and clock moving. The playoff game versus Seattle was almost a perfect example of what I am talking about. Somehow Aaron pulled it off very nicely in that game (not exactly up against a great defense though). I guess its still the turnover battle that matters most. Packers almost lost the Ice Bowl due to turnovers. GO PACK GO!!

I guess I don't blame the defense for the Seattle game last January. That game was more just Russel Wilson being absolutely phenomenal. There was nothing a defense could do.

I mean when we rave about Aaron's brilliance, we need to rave about Wilson's during those moments too. Fortunately our defense made just enough plays when they needed them. Including awesome sacks by Preston and Alexander at the most critical moments.

go pak go wrote: ↑

29 Aug 2020 07:37

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2020 19:44

go pak go wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2020 09:34

I would say any offensive system who seems to prefer running the ball and quick-out and easy passes absolutely understand the concept of winning time of possession.

And I would tend to believe every football coach in the entire world understand the concept of winning the turnover battle as that basically grants additional or takes away additional possessions.

I continue to be uncomfortable going in to the 4th quarter with a 10 point or less lead ......... because our defense can be somewhat porous. You know ........... continuously relying on a 3rd and 5 (or more) first down to keep the chains and clock moving. The playoff game versus Seattle was almost a perfect example of what I am talking about. Somehow Aaron pulled it off very nicely in that game (not exactly up against a great defense though). I guess its still the turnover battle that matters most. Packers almost lost the Ice Bowl due to turnovers. GO PACK GO!!

I guess I don't blame the defense for the Seattle game last January. That game was more just Russel Wilson being absolutely phenomenal. There was nothing a defense could do.

I mean when we rave about Aaron's brilliance, we need to rave about Wilson's during those moments too. Fortunately our defense made just enough plays when they needed them. Including awesome sacks by Preston and Alexander at the most critical moments.

That game was a thing of beauty for a Packers fan. I remember standing outside the hotel lobby about 2 hours before starting to walk over to the Oneida Gate entrance. Standing out there were 2 guys from Germany with a brown paper shopping bag. After exchanging pleasantries ......... the one guy who had this big grin on his face pulls an almost still full bottle of high end scotch out of the bag. He was just so happy to be offering swigs ............ drinking with Packers fans and being in Titletown. I imagine along the way he got the bottle emptied before getting to the dumpsters. This was obviously before COVID-19 and social distancing, etc.

I've never fully believed in the "time of possession" issue. Number of plays, yes. Teams with more plays tend to tire out the defence. But if one team gets down the field in 12 plays with runs and possession-type passes while the other gets down the field in 12 plays with longer passes interspersed with incompletions and running out of bounds, then it makes no difference that the former used more clock.

That's a different issue of course from using up time when you're winning and want the game to end.

Ever since draft day, I have been hoping that Love never sees the field for us. When we drafted him, I figured it was a win-win play by LaFleur: either Rodgers shapes up and we don't even have to move on from him for another 5 years or so, or he doesn't shape up and we can move on from his big salary to a QB who then would not be all that much of a step down from a subpar Rodgers.

I would rather Rodgers just get good again and we can roll with him for another 5 years, and I guess I think that is what will end up happening. Early reports are positive.